Resolution and Bit rate for Terrestrial TV

[stump1100]

What we have to realise like many other things, is that television production has been deregulated.
In the past there was a "broadcast standard" and to be employed in any sort of technical role in television broadcasting you have to hold a Broadcast Opeartors Certifcate of Proficiency......and there was a level of pride in these guys.

These days while there are certain requirements almost anything goes and production values have been slipping for nearly 20 years......we have changed from being ( technically) children of the BBC, to being the bastard sons of the american networks.

BUT it could be worse......look at ya modern digital TV and compare the quality of the work on the daytime American soaps with the Australian produced evening soaps......ya just have to look at the lighting and make up.....the lighting in the american soaps is horrid, unnatural with strong facial shadows, and the make up looks like it was put on with a trowel.

When they said they where going to broadcast High Def......I thaught Oh why bother, because most pre digital TV users would never seen an as good as it can be, analogue pitcure out of their TV...and realy would not have known the difference and still don't care.

Anybody who contracted TV antenna work in the not so distant past will tell you of the struggle to convince people to spend on a decent system.....as long as the picture is stable and more or less viewable...most people could not give a rats.

So, when a network has a choice of more channels and thus more revenue streams or better definition...its a no brainer for them.

cheers

You talk about the technical side of the industry (specifically mentioning BOCP) and then go on about programming and production. They aren't the same thing and BOCP has no relevance to this. There isn't much wrong with the broadcast (transmission) side of things but don't blame us for the content that goes to air.

[mtv]

Splitting hairs, the qualification for television broadcasting is actually TVOCP.

I think the relevance in 'technical' production standards he's referring to is meaning maintaining video and audio levels.

Make-up and lighting?...... no particular standard required.

Same for acting and presentation ability.

True HD/3D can look amazing and does indeed require great attention to detail, but for the majority of programming.... it's just a daily sausage factory.

I do agree though, that production/presentation standards have, in general, dropped considerably, but having said that, some have inresed dramatically..... animation processes for example.

Technically, great developments have been and continue to be, achieved... especially with software-driven applications.

[gordon_s1942]

I noticed on a particular Soapie my wife watches how unkind the camera is to some of the actors and actress as they are getting older.
Some of them look as though the makeup has been applied with a trowel and makes it look almost mask like.
But we have to remember this is only general entertainment literally to be seen and forgotten until the next episode, not works of art like the Mona Lisa or the Sistine Chapel that were made to be admired not for fleeting seconds but for Centuries.

[stump1100]

Splitting hairs, the qualification for television broadcasting is actually TVOCP.

True but neither exist now as far as I know and neither of them are or were a prerequisite to work in either stream. I remember when I finished my trade apprenticeship many years ago they were a passing fad among my peers and these days you would probably struggle to find a tech with a certificate as such.

[mtv]

True but neither exist now as far as I know and neither of them are or were a prerequisite to work in either stream. I remember when I finished my trade apprenticeship many years ago they were a passing fad among my peers and these days you would probably struggle to find a tech with a certificate as such.

They still exist, but networks are less stringent on their requirements these days, but some do still ask for them as a pre-requesite.

Even master control operators used to be required to hold a TVOCP for a network I worked for.

I always thought that was a bit over the top.

There's a still a few of us old-school engineers around.

[stump1100]

Fair enough, not many around in the RF tech side and I know first hand how hard it is lately to recruit any techs with RF experience...

[mtv]

Fair enough, not many around in the RF tech side and I know first hand how hard it is lately to recruit any techs with RF experience...

True.

Many 'techs' these days just seem to learn how to use diagnostic equipment that tells them what to replace.

Real-world theory and component-level diagnostics and repair are very much lost skills these days.

[SpankedHam]

Real-world theory and component-level diagnostics and repair are very much lost skills these days.

It's not too hard to see why though. Sure component level repair is still possible in a lot of instances but often the cost of labour to repair simple items such as power supplies (even just reworking a board to replace defunct caps will run up the bill) far exceeds the cost of replacement. Then there are boards with jungle chips on them that have 300+ legs and require specialised equipment to replace (or extremely good vision and extremely good fine motor control.. neither of which I have any more) assuming the components even are even labelled let alone obtainable.

Once upon a time it was the domain of the valve jockey, now it's the domain of the board jockey. Just keeping changing boards until the device springs back to life. Sad, but true.

[mtv]

..... Once upon a time it was the domain of the valve jockey, now it's the domain of the board jockey. Just keeping changing boards until the device springs back to life. Sad, but true.

That's about the size of it.

The downside is there are so many 'techs' these days that only know how do do just that, without understanding the fundementals of RF and even electronics in general... how it actually works.

Sometimes board changeover can be extremely expensive. eg: some years ago I had car issues..... dealer's 'auto technician' said the vehicle's computer needed to be replaced and quoted around $1,500.00 for a changeover board... or... he could have the existing board repaired which should cost a lot less.

Naturally, I chose the latter.

When I received the account for the 'outsourced repair' it was $800.00 which was indeed almost half the cost of a new replacement, so I enquired exactly what work was done to repair my board.

The 'tech' informed me he had replaced two capacitors and a resistor.... and a couple of hours labour.

To his horror, I instantly told him I knew how much those components cost... all of $2.00 for the lot!

Needless to say, there was some 'discussion' about the labour charge, which ended up being substantially reduced.

Have to feel sorry for others who just paid the asked price.

Rant over... and apologies as the thread has gone a bit OT.

[AIRWAY]

What I was trying to point out is that screen resolution is the least of the problems with how TV is presented...hell some of the produces don't even know what good camera work is..

Serioulsy if ya cant see the difference in quality between the US soaps and the Australian product don't bother with a high def decoder.

I do have to say that the pictures comming out of ABCs new Brisbane news studio are just beautiful in high def the images are crisp and the lighting is pretty damn good.
And It seems to have prompted the tallent and the make up people to lift their game too.

cheers

[mtv]

Yes, Australian production standards have always been superior to the US product, but even when you have superb native HD capture, by the time it's compressed and transmitted at a much lower bit rate... especially SD, it doesn't look anywhere near as good as it could.

[k3nnis]

Hi Guys,

Are the regional channels aka prime, win and SC10 bitrates the same/better/worse than their capital city counterparts? eg sydney?

I am asking this as I am in Sydney South and I have a VHF antenna and I get impulse noise/interference occasionally and also channel 10 the signal quality drops to half in the evenings...

So I am looking to get a UHF antenna and point it towards knights hill in wollongong, and just worried the channel picture quality might be worse than Sydney...

Thanks,
K.

[mtv]

PQ is pretty much the same between Sydney & Knights Hill.

Have you taken steps to improve your Sydney reception?

[k3nnis]

It's a fairly new setup. Can you recommend me anyone in the Sydney South area?

[gordon_s1942]

Since November last year I have spent 2 single nights in Nepean Hospital Penrith as well as a few hours (like 8) waiting to be admitted and the Kidney Specialists rooms, all in the Hospitals precincts and this was the first time I had seen the reception in that area and I couldnt tell the difference (other than the advertising) on the various TV's to that in my own area as with Digital, its either viewable or it isnt.
I was aware from time past many houses from the lower Blue Mountains towards Blacktown had 2 antenna, generally a combo type towards Sydney and a dedicated UHF antenna I take to be facing South East towards Wollongong (Knights Hill), many of both types looking nice and shiny indicating they have been installed since the Analog closure.
Surprisingly almost none had an antenna facing roughly North West to the new translator on Kurrajong Heights which I took to mean they were happy with the reception from both Sydney and Wollongong.
The only advantage to picking up another area is different advertising, some sporting fixtures and you have something to watch if one or other has any transmission problems as the basic programing today is the same Australia wide.