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Thread: Cat 5 or 6

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    Default Cat 5 or 6

    Hi All,
    We have been running cat5 for cctv for sometime now and have had no problems at all as it can support 1gb but wondering how many use cat6 on any installs that don't need to be certified ?

    Also what's your thoughts with cabling directly to the nvr instead of using a patch panel and patch leads when using a date rack.

    Interested to know.



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    Cat 6 has been the same price as Cat 5e for years now.
    I don't ask for anything less and the wholesalers just stock the one cable now anyway
    If u want to go on an expedition get a Land Rover, if u want to come home from an expedition get a Landcruiser!

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    Ok so the price is the same so why run a heavier cable that takes up more room in conduits and is harder to fit off crystals when needed ?
    To me there's more cons than pros with cat6 for cctv, not much choice I suppose if your wholesaler doesn't stock cat5.

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    Don't know the answer to all of your questions, but as far as size goes, there seems to be a couple of different physical sizes of Cat6(E) cable!

    Home Depot here in the US is a hardware/building/appliance nation wide superstore.

    HomeDepot carries a Cat6 cable that looks EXACTLY likeCat5(e). I had to ask a salesman if there was a mistake in labeling, he said NO that is Cat6! when I looked at the specs the difference between their Cat5/Cat6 is wire gauge. Cat5 is 24 AWG and Cat6 is 23AWG.

    I said this is not Cat6, the cable I'm familiar with is noticeably thicker,as jake80 mentioned above, it has 23AWG conductors AND a nylon separator between the 4 twisted pairs that improves bandwidth and distance! I would say in physical size it is 1/3 larger due to that nylon separator.

    Apparently as long as the wire gauge is 23AWG, you can call it "CAT6", but obviously it will not perform as well as the larger cable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake80 View Post
    Ok so the price is the same so why run a heavier cable that takes up more room in conduits and is harder to fit off crystals when needed ?
    To me there's more cons than pros with cat6 for cctv, not much choice I suppose if your wholesaler doesn't stock cat5.
    Many reason you may use Cat 6 over Cat 5 other than size.

    Future Proofing, especially where cables are hard to replace
    It may have been specified (most of my jobs actually specify it)
    Better Interference qualities (very important when its hard to keep Min sep)
    Greater bandwidth (only you will know what you need there)

    List goes on and on, yes it is a little harder to fit off, but its hardly a ball buster.
    If u want to go on an expedition get a Land Rover, if u want to come home from an expedition get a Landcruiser!

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    For a cable to be classed as "(Cat6 - Class E or Class F cabling)" is a little more technical than just it's gauge. There's a series of equations the cable MUST meet over 1-250 MHz frequency on a swept basis. Without diving into the maths, stuff like attentuation, dB loss, return loss, phase delays etc need to be within certain ranges cmangle.

    The chances of that Home Depot cable meeting those requirements based on just it's gauge is about as likely as me fronting up to a horse race without a horse and winning it.

    What things like the plastic separator, and twisted pairs at differing twist rates do, is help that Cat 6 cable meet this (quite stringent) standard.

    Some less scrupulous suppliers in Australia neatly bypassed needing to meet the standard by calling their Cable Cat6E, and in Australia I've seen copper annealed cable sold like this. Cat6E isn't actually a standard. Next "step up" so to speak is Cat6A

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    I guess the question could also be turned around to read... Why install an outdated, lower-spec cable, when for the same price (or less) a higher-spec cable can be installed?

    Even Cat6 is fast becoming obsolete.

    I'm now not installing anything below Cat6a.

    The main benefit is bandwidth, of which demand on structured cabling installations is ever-increasing.

    Eg: Bandwidth of UTP
    Cat5e 100MHz
    Cat6 250MHz
    Cat6a 500MHz

    Whilst customers at present may only require lower bandwidth, it's highly probable in future they will face the need for higher performance levels.

    It's always better business practice (and common sense) to have a performance level margin available to cover any future development when installing new cabling.

    As for using patch panels.... flexibility.

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    This makes me wonder why some companies flog of 3 meg cameras and then sell an nvr that can only record in 720P

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmangle View Post
    Don't know the answer to all of your questions, but as far as size goes, there seems to be a couple of different physical sizes of Cat6(E) cable!

    Home Depot here in the US is a hardware/building/appliance nation wide superstore.

    HomeDepot carries a Cat6 cable that looks EXACTLY likeCat5(e). I had to ask a salesman if there was a mistake in labeling, he said NO that is Cat6! when I looked at the specs the difference between their Cat5/Cat6 is wire gauge. Cat5 is 24 AWG and Cat6 is 23AWG.

    I said this is not Cat6, the cable I'm familiar with is noticeably thicker,as jake80 mentioned above, it has 23AWG conductors AND a nylon separator between the 4 twisted pairs that improves bandwidth and distance! I would say in physical size it is 1/3 larger due to that nylon separator.

    Apparently as long as the wire gauge is 23AWG, you can call it "CAT6", but obviously it will not perform as well as the larger cable.
    I believe standards have been dispensed with in USA. I recently had a robust discussion on the evils of using RG6 for CCTV. I was informed that in the states they have RG6 specifically made for CCTV. When I asked just "what" made a cable RG6 or RG59 I was told it was the guage of the centre conductor. This led to me posing further questions , none of which were answered. I did however receive a load of attitude and gave up on the matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xr5adam View Post
    This makes me wonder why some companies flog of 3 meg cameras and then sell an nvr that can only record in 720P
    It's no different to selling 700TVL cameras witha DVR that can only record at D1or less. Been happening for years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by watchdog View Post
    When I asked just "what" made a cable RG6 or RG59 I was told it was the guage of the centre conductor. This led to me posing further questions , none of which were answered.
    It's the proportion of the centre conductor with the outer conductor and the dielectric between them, taking into account the capacitance and inductance, making up the impedance.

    The difference with RG6 specifically for CCTV is that type typically uses a solid copper centre conductor due to baseband video signals being used, which at those frequencies, travels within the whole conductor, whereas typical RG6 designed for TV/satellite signals at much higher RF frequencies, the signals mostly travel on the outer surface of the inner conductor, known as 'skin effect'. These types of RG6 coax cables typically have a centre conductor of copper-clad steel (eg: only a very thin copper covering on a steel conductor) to reduce cost, as copper if far more expensive compared to steel.

    OT from the thread subject, but hope that explanation helps.

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    I wasn't asking the question here ( I already know the whys & whynots) but just mentioned that I posed the questions to my verbal opponent. When he stated that the difference is the centre conductor guage , I suggested that maybe they should just call it heavy duty RG59 instead of RG6. I was trying to point out that he didn't know what he was talking about.
    By the way skin effect is of little consequence at cctv baseband frequencies. It is of no concern until you get above around 80Mhz.

    skin depth = sq root [(2 x resistivity) divided by (angular freq x permeability)]

    about 65% of current flows within the skin depth and 98% of current flows within 4 x skin depth. The optimal wire guage calculates to 3.5 x skin depth
    At 100Mhz the skin depth is 0.0067mm. Given that RG59 centre conductor is generally 0.020mm & 98% of current flows in 4 x skin depth ( 4 x 0.0067 @ 100Mhz) everything seems just right.
    Please dont propogate the bull about CCS & CCA cable being ok because of the skin effect - it isn't and it is produced for the sole reason of cutting costs

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    Quote Originally Posted by watchdog View Post
    I wasn't asking the question here ( I already know the whys & whynots) but just mentioned that I posed the questions to my verbal opponent.
    That's not how it read... it appeared you asked a question, seeking information, but didn't receive an explanation.

    You gave no indication you already knew.

    I thought I was helping you, but instead, wasted my time.

    That being the case, you raised an off topic subject of absolutely no benefit to the OP's question.

    Please refrain from doing so in the future.

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    So you misunderstood my post with regards to lack of standards (which was within the boundaries of the OP) and then blame me for going OT. It wasn't a waste of time as it may help someone else. If you belive it was a waste of time then SORRY

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtv View Post
    I guess the question could also be turned around to read... Why install an outdated, lower-spec cable, when for the same price (or less) a higher-spec cable can be installed?
    I can answer that, easier to fit off.

    Ok so Cat5e (now just called Cat5) is good for 1gb and 100Mhz so tell me what is the maximum bandwidth of the best camera you guys install ?
    And have you ever even once had a problem with a camera you could have avoided by running Cat6 instead of 5 ?

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    4k cameras work fine with cat5e

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    Heh we all got carried away about the cabling and no one (I noticed on the thread anyway) answered this question for the Op

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake80 View Post

    Also what's your thoughts with cabling directly to the nvr instead of using a patch panel and patch leads when using a date rack.

    Interested to know.
    Technically doable but not recommended, especially if there's a chance that these cables may need to be moved around. Reason is longer runs use solid cable (stranded cable is more expensive), whereas patch leads are made of stranded cable and better suited to being moved about etc. There's other advantages to using a patch panel as well. Should you need to add additional cameras (or any other network device) near an existing camera at a later date, you can pop a PoE switch in that camera's place, and easily adjust to suit the new set up, etc, etc.

    This is also another reason to use cat6 (or better) cable. Should you need to use that cable in the future for carrying more than just a camera feed back to the NVR, then the extra bandwidth won't limit you as much as 5E would.

    ATM, we're using cat6 (often cat6A if the client's budget will stretch a bit) for all pre-wiring, especially double storey, for just that reason. Should the client suddenly discover they need a network outlet near an existing camera for whatever reason, that cable can be picked up and used with a switch to allow it to happen.
    Last edited by Clay Turner; 28-04-16 at 04:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clay Turner View Post
    Heh we all got carried away about the cabling and no one (I noticed anyway answered this question for the Op)
    My post (#7)

    As for using patch panels.... flexibility.

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    Yep found it. Then I'll claim I expanded on your original one line answer at the bottom of that post, plus old age, poor eyesight, and senility added to me missing it in the first place.
    Last edited by Clay Turner; 28-04-16 at 04:07 PM.

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