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    Default DSC186 from SMS Security

    was going to get a Hills DAS alarms system
    1 x Hills NX16 Alarm System To Include:
    1 x Hills Touch Nav Code Pad
    1 x Internal Siren
    1 x External Siren With Blue Strobe
    1 x 12v Power Supply
    1 x 7A Back Up Battery
    5 x DSC Pet Friendly Passive Infra Red Detectors $1499
    3 x Recessed Magnetic Door Contacts $130 each
    1 x Texecom High Frequency Vibration Sensor $140
    FULLY INSTALLED AND INCLUDING GST - $2029 HILLS WARRANTY – 2 YEARS

    as opposed to the DSC
    DSC OPTION:
    1 x DSC 1864 Alarm System (Expandable to 64 Zones)
    1 x DSC Touch Screen Interface
    1 x Internal Siren
    1 x External Siren With Blue Strobe
    1 x 12v Power Supply
    1 x 7A Back Up Battery
    5 x DSC Pet Friendly Passive Infra Red Detectors $1240
    3 x Recessed Magnetic Door Contacts $130 each
    1 x Texecom High Frequency Vibration Sensor $140
    FULLY INSTALLED AND INCLUDING GST - $1770 DSC WARRANTY – 5 YEARS LABOUR GUARANTEE – 2 YEARS

    monitoring is $9.90wk, doesn't say if you need another module for that to work or not?

    Now I would like to monitor it myself but we are only going to have voip lines, which to me are somewhat reliable - any thought suggestions as to what brand to go with as we are in the Wild West!
    woteva



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    A couple of things regarding the quote seem strange.

    1. The Hills quote, you were quoted for an NX16 Panel, all tho they are a very reliable panel they do not make them anymore. So whoever quoted you either has a stockpile of them from years ago or they plan on installing a second hand unit. The NX16 is now the Reliance 128 and there is not much difference really apart from a few minor programming differences but the fact you were quoted for a NX16 raises concerns.

    2. Monitoring $9.90/week with no mention of any wireless monitoring options seems very steep, however you mention voip lines, sure it might work via a voip line, but no tech is going to tell you that a voip line will be reliable 100% of the time with your alarm system. Your best bet is to just have it monitored at a control room with a wireless device such a Permaconn, Direct Wireless, Multicom etc and even then on a 12-24 hour poll plan it should not be $9.90/week, closer to the $7/week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adro View Post
    A couple of things regarding the quote seem strange.

    1. The Hills quote, you were quoted for an NX16 Panel, all tho they are a very reliable panel they do not make them anymore. So whoever quoted you either has a stockpile of them from years ago or they plan on installing a second hand unit. The NX16 is now the Reliance 128 and there is not much difference really apart from a few minor programming differences but the fact you were quoted for a NX16 raises concerns.

    2. Monitoring $9.90/week with no mention of any wireless monitoring options seems very steep, however you mention voip lines, sure it might work via a voip line, but no tech is going to tell you that a voip line will be reliable 100% of the time with your alarm system. Your best bet is to just have it monitored at a control room with a wireless device such a Permaconn, Direct Wireless, Multicom etc and even then on a 12-24 hour poll plan it should not be $9.90/week, closer to the $7/week.
    might have to email them back to see what they are really going to do, as with the monitoring we are 2 hrs south of the Perth so we get flogged on pricing usually
    woteva

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    the NX16 has been amended to the Reliance 128
    monitoring is done with a "Permaconn GPRS unit, which usually costs $300, however we'll include it at no additional cost. This is a completely stand alone device which does not require a phone or internet line to operate. If your power or phone lines are down, your alarm will still communicate. The monitoring fee is billed quarterly, at $9.90 per week - $128.70 per quarter. This also includes all communications: daily system and signal test, alarm events and emergency transmissions."
    woteva

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    Quote Originally Posted by omega99 View Post
    the NX16 has been amended to the Reliance 128
    monitoring is done with a "Permaconn GPRS unit, which usually costs $300, however we'll include it at no additional cost. This is a completely stand alone device which does not require a phone or internet line to operate. If your power or phone lines are down, your alarm will still communicate. The monitoring fee is billed quarterly, at $9.90 per week - $128.70 per quarter. This also includes all communications: daily system and signal test, alarm events and emergency transmissions."
    In my opinion you are paying for the permaconn unit in the long run with that monitoring rate. I only say this as most monitoring centres will only charge you $6-$8/week for residential permaconn monitoring on a 12 hour polling plan. So the extra $2-3 a week you pay in monitoring over a year or will pay for the unit. Do they have a lock in contract once they install the system ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adro View Post
    I only say this as most monitoring centres will only charge you $6-$8/week for residential permaconn monitoring
    That's even less than the mythical 'dollar a day' prices they've been charging for dialler monitoring. Are you serious?

    Or is that over and above the standard monitoring fee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adro View Post
    In my opinion you are paying for the permaconn unit in the long run with that monitoring rate. I only say this as most monitoring centres will only charge you $6-$8/week for residential permaconn monitoring on a 12 hour polling plan. So the extra $2-3 a week you pay in monitoring over a year or will pay for the unit. Do they have a lock in contract once they install the system ?
    there wasn't any mention of a lock in contract until I asked. I wonder what they will say when I tell them nay don't want it monitored!

    another firm quote $10.80week - I did say we are in the wild wild west!
    woteva

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    Quote Originally Posted by downunderdan View Post
    That's even less than the mythical 'dollar a day' prices they've been charging for dialler monitoring. Are you serious?

    Or is that over and above the standard monitoring fee.
    Unsure about Centres down south Dan but I know for a fact we aren't the only Monitoring Centre in QLD who have decided to honor the dollar a day to include Permaconn 12 hour poll plans. Sure you don't make as much money as a PSTN line obviously but you can't expect an end user to be happy about being charged the standard $7 + The Permaconn Wholesale monitoring rate for something, that in alot of cases they are forced to take up, due to NBN.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adro View Post
    Unsure about Centres down south Dan but I know for a fact we aren't the only Monitoring Centre in QLD who have decided to honor the dollar a day to include Permaconn 12 hour poll plans. Sure you don't make as much money as a PSTN line obviously but you can't expect an end user to be happy about being charged the standard $7 + The Permaconn Wholesale monitoring rate for something, that in alot of cases they are forced to take up, due to NBN.
    Why? In fairness, no security business decided that Securitel should be turned off or that 2G should be in the same boat either. Are you attending every site at no charge to effect the change over? Did you do so with Securitel?

    In the vast majority of cases, customers migrating to the NBN are much better off over all even with marginally increased monitoring charge to cover the SIM charges from Permaconn, UHS, SCSI or whoever. Every other industry and service puts their prices up in line with their costs of doing business yet somehow there are those that frown upon it when the security industry chooses to do it. It astounds me that some of the most vocal are those from within the industry.

    Most of us here in the west absorb some of the cost to changeover from dialler to 3G, but it's unreasonable to suggest industry should absorb all of it. With the increased costs of doing business, suggestions like that are verging on uncommercial. The prices mentioned are well within the ranges being bandied about over here at the moment and are far from unreasonable.

    All in all, I guess that depends on your business model. If you're a one man band with no overheads, and are happy to work for what really accounts for nothing more than wages after costs, then knock yourself out. If you're serious about business and take all aspects into account, you can still be fair to your customers and remain profitable without making a competition about price. Price as your only selling feature is not sustainable for anyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drift View Post
    Why? In fairness, no security business decided that Securitel should be turned off or that 2G should be in the same boat either. Are you attending every site at no charge to effect the change over? Did you do so with Securitel?
    Securitel is before my time, so can't really comment on that. We do charge for the Permconn/Multicom etc supply and install but the cost is very minimal as permaconns are currently cheap as chips and only take 15-20 mins to install. I suppose in a way there is no difference to companies charging for the supply and install of the unit to others charging more then normal for the monitoring of the device and offering "free" supply and install.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drift View Post
    In the vast majority of cases, customers migrating to the NBN are much better off over all even with marginally increased monitoring charge to cover the SIM charges from Permaconn, UHS, SCSI or whoever. Every other industry and service puts their prices up in line with their costs of doing business yet somehow there are those that frown upon it when the security industry chooses to do it. It astounds me that some of the most vocal are those from within the industry.
    I don't frown upon upping prices, in a way we are glad a lot of places are charging more, we picked up a client recently who was being charged $15/week for 12 hour polling. Alot of our clients have been with us for 10-15 years so we try and look after them. A lot of companies in QLD are charging similar prices. We've got a bureau who charge less then "The Dollar A Day" for permaconn 12 hour polling so are cheaper then us again and they are happy to do so and make profit on the tech work, installs etc. At the end of the day everyone is going to charge different prices, it's just strange that prices vary so much from state to state for a product that can be monitored nationally.
    Last edited by Adro; 18-03-16 at 11:40 PM.

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    Which Permaconn model a you using to get 12hr polling. As the main models they sell now are all dual sim and start at 1hr polling or shorter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by secure View Post
    Which Permaconn model a you using to get 12hr polling. As the main models they sell now are all dual sim and start at 1hr polling or shorter.
    Not true. Just because they are Dual Sim units does not mean you have to use a dual sim plan. PM45 (that has been out for over 18 months) & the new 1048 are both dual sim devices that work on P2 12 Hour Single Sim Poll Plans.
    Last edited by Adro; 19-03-16 at 01:41 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adro View Post
    A couple of things regarding the quote seem strange.

    1. The Hills quote, you were quoted for an NX16 Panel, all tho they are a very reliable panel they do not make them anymore. So whoever quoted you either has a stockpile of them from years ago or they plan on installing a second hand unit. The NX16 is now the Reliance 128 and there is not much difference really apart from a few minor programming differences but the fact you were quoted for a NX16 raises concerns.

    2. Monitoring $9.90/week with no mention of any wireless monitoring options seems very steep, however you mention voip lines, sure it might work via a voip line, but no tech is going to tell you that a voip line will be reliable 100% of the time with your alarm system. Your best bet is to just have it monitored at a control room with a wireless device such a Permaconn, Direct Wireless, Multicom etc and even then on a 12-24 hour poll plan it should not be $9.90/week, closer to the $7/week.
    It's like the quotes I see with mention of Shatterpoints, last I heard years ago these are no longer made. I will never connect an alarm to a VOIP line,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drift View Post
    Every other industry and service puts their prices up in line with their costs of doing business yet somehow there are those that frown upon it when the security industry chooses to do it. It astounds me that some of the most vocal are those from within the industry.
    This is a fantastic comment.

    Huge sections of the security industry haven't put their prices up since the 1980s when a 'dollar a day' was actually a fair bit of money.

    The only reason I can imagine is that many of them must compete on price as they simply offer no other value proposition, and are worried that if they put their price up the customer may take a good look at what they're getting.

    Can't comment on the business model of a man with a van, but from a monitoring center's point of view, rent, electricity, telephony and infrastructure costs have all gone up annually. If their revenue hasn't, then they are either not a viable business or they are cutting corners. It does not take much to work this out. I am currently involved in a dispute with a supposed A1 Graded monitoring centre who was only using a single monitoring operator most of the time (the Standard requires 2) and whose owner was perfectly comfortable lying to his customers of 20+ years. Not to mention their 10-15 year old servers and so many failure points it was a joke. Sadly, the customer is seldom aware of what goes on 'behind the curtain' and despite being an unethical piece of scum, he was (I am sure) not the worst by a long way but seems fairly typical, the more I learn about people in this industry.

    When rebate revenue disappears I predict a number of companies' cashflow disappearing overnight. I am aware of other monitoring businesses who have a guarding business attached and are unquestionably involved in sham contracting and sub-award wage payments to staff. I am more worried about competing against scumbags like that, than someone who's honest but just cheap.

    I was amused by a Sydney monitoring company who sent a letter to all of their customers a few years ago raising the prices "due to an increase in crime in the local area". A quick check of BOCSAR showed this to be false and I suggested a mate (who used them) ask for a proportionate discount instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by decemberrain View Post
    I have sent you a PM
    Why do people post this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by downunderdan View Post
    Why do people post this?
    I will end you a PM to explain!

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    Quote Originally Posted by pca15 View Post
    I will end you a PM to explain!
    That might hurt.....

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    went with the cheaper option as I'm a cheap skate! the DSC 1864 Alarm System, with a DSC PTK5507 touchscreen & PM45 3g V3 dialer.

    my issue is they wont give me the details to access permaconn's Atlas and to setup pocket secure they are asking $170.50 + $44 per extra user - is this the norm?

    plus I dont have a master code or the installers code?
    woteva

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