LPG conversions

[dddp]

that's plain stupid, why make a comment like that? It's low level is all. It's like how some people believe if you run low fuel level you pick up crap from the bottom of the fuel tank, you don't believe that one, do you?

it's along the same lines as the winabago thing about not leaving the drivers seat while using the cruise control - we're not americans ... are we?

[global88]

dddp, have you ever taken a fuel pump out that has been running in a almost empty tank to see its temperature?
You do know that heat dramaticly shortens the life of some pumps designed to run inside the tank. They use the fuel as the cooling medium.
Please note that not all pumps run hot, it all depends on the design and manufacturer.

Yes it can happen, that if you run your tank on empty, you will pickup all the crap.
note this though....the car is an older make with a steel tank.
The tank is regularly run low.
The car is old.
Have you done much work on old cars? Any restorations?
I have seen the rust in the bottom of MANY tanks.
Main reason is their run constantly low on fuel and develop rust inside. They do not contain mesh pickup screens like EFI cars do. The dirt goes straight into the pickup.
These cars do not have a inboard electric pump, but rather an outboard electric fitted in the boot or a mechanical one on the engine. All the cars have run carbs.
I have had alot of fun through the years changing fuel filters and rebuilding carbs and fuel pumps full of rust particles. The safest route is to remove the tank and clean it, youd be surprised how much crap comes out.

My GTR has an inboard pump with a fine mesh filter fitted. I noted the first time i had it out that the mesh screen had some rubbish in it and the pickup trough had some rust looking particles also in it.

Last year i had a call from a relative who was stuck in a carpark and could not start his vs commodore. He called RACV first before me, the mechanic found that the fuel pump was not working and told him he would need a tow. At this point i had also arrived to help and suggested an old trick. I removed one of my shoes got under the car and gave the tank afew good whacks while the ignition was on and the RACV man had an ear listening into the filler hole for the sound of the pump. She started again.
As the RACV man said, the pumps probably damaged and has had a shorterned life from running the car with a low fuel level constantly or its just old and on the way out.
My relative also runs on a empty tank all the time, the max he would throw in is 10 to 20 bucks at a time.
Please note hes been doing this for years.

On the other hand i know the problems low fuel levels bring and have never had a pump failure yet. Touch wood.....

The original car manufacturer does not need to warn you of this, the chances of it wearing out during its warrantee are slim. People who can afford to drive new cars will not waste time putting 5 bucks in the tank, the pumps will be cooled.
Lpg manufacturers will warn you as their product is altering your car, people will be temped to run lpg cars with no petrol for long periods of time, this will certainly damage the pump.

[dddp]

can't run my dual fuel without petrol, hard to run any dual fuel without petrol

so, going by this reasoning at the price of todays fuel i'd say there'd be plenty of people running round with minimal fuel levels not just lpg cars (guys at work run work cars and put minimal fuel in all the time, i'd reckon dual fuel taxis would also run minimum petrol levels too)) - you'd expect to hear plenty of people complaining that their pumps had died ... it's not my experience

for sure some pumps can tolerate low levels better than others, i'm only speaking of my experience

pumps pickup from the bottom of the tank, if there's any crud there it'll already be on the strainer or in the fuel filter - moisture is another problem, methos will sort that out (within reason of course)

anyways, i'm not telling you what to do, i'm telling you what i do - what you do is up to you

[global88]

Dont forget 99% of cars on the road go through regular bumps, cornering, acceleration and braking will slosh the fuel around in the tank and help cooling to some degree.

The advice in the lpg manual is a definite way to protect your pump, besides if your out of lpg and you dont have any petrol your stuffed, its good to keep some petrol reserve.

You cant jerry can lpg (actually there is a way but thats another matter best left for another time)

[dddp]

hard to accidentally run out of petrol in mine, light comes on @ 100ks - chime starts doing it's thing at 80ks - chime drives me bonkers so i stick fuel in before it starts - no more than $15 of 98ron takes the level to about 1/3 tank that'll do me til the 100k light comes on again

tank in my car is quite tall (relatively, sits between rear axle and rear footwell on passenger side) it's not like the old under boot floor tanks which when at low level you could well be in danger of running dry often. There could be anything from 7 to 12l in there when the trip meter reports 100ks. 12l would be fairly deep.

Trip meter DTE runs off fuel level sensor (and fuel usuage), often these are set to report lower levels than actual.
I am betting i'm safe doing what i do.

[z80]

@ddp

People here have tried to tell you that the manual says to keep 25% of the tank filled.

You then say that you read your manual and it says to keep the tank 30% full (more than the advice in this thread).


I think I'll go with the manufacturer, rather than what you advise.

[dddp]

@z80 - i'm not advising anyone, i'm just saying what i do

anyways, i'm not telling you what to do, i'm telling you what i do - what you do is up to you

wouldn't recommend this to all cars, but i do for mine

i see the forum has a bit of a hiccup, posts can be edited but there's nothing in the post to show it has been edited - that's unusual

this is what the email notifier said was in the post

"@ddp

People here have tried to tell you that the manual says to keep 25% of the tank filled.

You argue that we are telling you bullshit.

You then say that you read your manual and although it says to keep the tank 30% full (more than the advice in this thread).


You're not sniffing the shit are you mate? "

no, no shit sniffing here

[z80]

Thank you for highlighting a timing problem.

I hope that's better now?

[streeter75]

Is that gas or a fart I smell

[dddp]

cheers, have a nice day now

[erhan75]

Great thread guys... tell me i have a magna vrx 2000 model and i was thinking of converting it to LPG. I'm tossing between converting it or trading it in for another car within a few months.

I get 600kms on a tank i think its a 85litre tank and it costs me $85 to $90 to fill up.

what should i do?

e

[global88]

Erhan75, the fitting of a lpg system today depends on a few things.

Do you intend to keep the car for a long time.
Do you intend to do many km.
Does it have low milage atm.

If yes id say go for it.
Otherwise it will be difficult to make it pay for itself.

One other thing you have to ask yourself is if the price of lpg goes up any higher, will it have been worth it.

Oh and make sure you find a good installer, some real amatures out there right now cashing in on all the work.

Your car after a good conversion should return a little less distance due to the size of the gas tank, for less than half the price of fuel.
The money your saving ($40-45) a tank will have to go towards off setting the money you put in out of your pocket for the conversion. You may find it will take a year of savings or more untill it starts to pay.
Thats when youll reap the benefits, and hopefully the price of lpg will stay down.

[dddp]

the other question to ask, do you live in WA? ... if you do you'll get another $1000 to go with the fed govt's $2000 subsidy, then that will total $3000 off the cost of you're conversion.
Mine cost me $1400 out of my pocket, it's almost a year old now (18k kms) - i'd guess it is almost or very close to paid back and either now or very soon i'll be in front financially.
There's a payback calculater here


Also, the tank does rob you of bootspace by approx 1/3rd. There are other tanks, more or less rectangular shaped, that will be or are available that take up less room, these come at a price tho not that i have any idea of what that might be.


The installer that did my conversion has seen these tanks, but last time i saw him he didn't know what they cost. Hope they are affordable, i would have chosen these for my car at the time.

[dddp]

.

[DND]

I got my VT converted and it saved me a few bucks
getting 650km out of a tank(72L) of gas on trip..And 450kms around town

[mclaing]

I was reading your posting regarding LPG conversion on a Z3.
I'm wondering if something similar can be done to get more out of Hydrogen Assist. My other vehicles took to HHO without any O2 sensor adjustments, but my Z3 is still avaeraging 26mpg of US gasoline. I'm assisting with 1pint/min on demand Hydrogen, which usually doubles milage. Other things are noticable like increased HP, much quieter motor, and lower engine temp. But MPG's stay the same. Any ideas?
Gas here in Calif is now $4.75 gal

[dddp]

where i live in southern West Australia, we pay the equivalent of USD$5.92 USgal for petrol and LPG is the equivalent of USD$2.70 USgal

in AUD$ pertrol here is $7.20 impgal and LPG is $3.28 impgal - when i got my 1st car in '73 $2 used to give you 1/4 tank in an EH holden

[dogsbreath]

I have just booked my TJ 2002 Magna in with a local installer. Earliest available date was mid August.

We opted for the $2800 conversion over the $4200 sequential option due to being broke at the moment and into the near forseable future.

ZZZZZ as an installer can we upgrade to a sequential system later using the existing tank setup. Are there any brands of equipment to avoid. I did not recognise the brand he intended to use - not Impco or Gas Research. I normally service and tune my own vehicles and am unfamiliar with gas equipment - do you use gas analysers or dyno's when you tune converted vehicles or do you tune by ear?

Which brand of Gas have users found to be most compatable with best mileage and consistent quality.

regards Craig

[global88]

My personal experiance with gas outlets is mileage varies considerably from servo to servo.

We have a independant united servo with very cheap gas nearby selling at least 2 or 3 cents a litre cheaper than anyone else.

When using their fuel i get at least 100km less out of a tank.
I thought i was saving but actually loseing big time.

It took me a year of tunning to work out why my milage went down. After filling at other servos i noticed another 100km out of the blue.

I now use only BP as i seem to get the best distance and power.

I belive sequential injection is alot more involved with special injecters etc but by far the best system to install.

If the car was new and you intended to keep it long term id be tempted to go sequential as the mileage and power are by far better.

Good tunning is possible without a dyno with some basic understanding of closed loop systems and a good ear for the car.

As a side note on tunning, the best tunes are done by ear as a dyno cannot simulate real driving conditions.
All forms of motorsport set up the engines on a dyno but do their final tune and driveability on track.

Having said that, handing the car to a mechanic and throwing it on a dyno is far more convienient for most people.

[blueskyfrog]

Anyone know where in Melbourne you can get no cost, or very low cost LPG installed? i.e.: Installed for $2000.00 and Government picks up the tab? I realise that it cannot be done on all cars but I was quoted $150 extra for a 1990 Multipoint Fairlane by a mob in Dandenong. Even a secondhand kit if that's claimable? I've had them fitted before the rebate scheme started for $1500.oo.