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Thread: Why is there a 10% upload from what I download?

  1. #1
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    Default Why is there a 10% upload from what I download?

    Every time I download a large file I notice that 10% is added in upload, which I have to pay with my provider.
    This happens with all downloads but when I download a Linux distro from a torrent for example I can see that I am not uploading(sharing) a single byte but my network meter shows approximately 10% of the download in upload traffic.
    Is this normal for every one and is there a way to minimise this behaviour?
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 08-04-16 at 09:04 PM.
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    Just as a test I'm downloading a rar file, from x website. in speed about 300k out speed 6-7k constant. Using linux OS.

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    Well that would be only 2%.
    I understand there are parity checks and things that add to the download but why would I have 10% upload ?

    Using Linux too, so no dodgy windows 10 update file sharing or something.
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 08-04-16 at 10:10 PM.
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    Here's the result.

    530.9 down and 12.5 up.... Interesting



    EDIT are you using a vpn ?

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    File verification perhaps?

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    Almost guaranteed to be file verification and other housekeeping, it would need to know a)what pieces are complete and b)what is still needed.
    I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mickstv View Post
    Here's the result.

    530.9 down and 12.5 up.... Interesting



    EDIT are you using a vpn ?

    Again close to 2% which would be OK for file verification or parity check feed back or whatever but 10 % is sus.
    Not using VPN for these large downloads 30-50G and more and I only noticed it since I am with my last provider: activ8me
    These are legit downloads.

    I think I might have to talk with my provider about this but I would appreciate if somebody else could also share their network download/upload ratio using direct downloads to confirm it is only me.
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    There are two protocols riding on IP that are used for pretty much all internet traffic. TCP and UDP. UDP is an 'unreliable' protocol in that of itself it does nothing to ensure it reaches the other end, ever. TCP is a reliable protocol in that every packet sent must be acknowledged by the receiving end or the connection fails and is terminated. TCP is the protocol usually used to carry general web browsing, file downloading and things like that. UDP is the protocol usually used to carrying streaming media. It's not a fixed rule as traffic can be carried by the other but that's usually how it goes.

    So when you download a file, it will usually be done over TCP which means your PC must be transmitting data to acknowlegde it has received a packet (or series of packets). The ratio of upload to download will vary widely with many factors affecting to but it will usually lie within 1:8 - 1:12. If you download 1Gb you can expect to upload somewhere between 83 to 125 megabytes.

    Some monitoring tools do not count these ACK packets, only actual payload packets, so they can't be considered to be a reliable tool in working out how much data is going where and why. The best way to tell what is going on is by monitoring via a router or a sniffer.

    Can it be minimised? Yes, to a degree. Most TCP/IP stacks have a configurable receive window value that more or less determines how many packets your PC will be able to receive before sending out a single "I got all that" packet. Windows Vista and later do a pretty good job of autoscaling the receive window for best speed. Linux/Unix has done a good job of it for longer than I can recall. If you use Windows and want to manually force a receive window size, has a tweak tool that makes it easy to fiddle with, but the amount of quota you'll save will be minimal so IMO it's not worth the effort if saving data is your game.
    Last edited by SpankedHam; 09-04-16 at 08:52 AM.

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    That is a lot. I would have thought that a single 64 bit CRC checksum data word would be more than sufficient for a 4 kByte packet or what ever that are using,
    which would be about 0.2% .

    Interesting that today it seems to be averaging at 8%. Last night always 10% or more.
    Values are from the KDE network manager in Linux. I also have a task bar applet that shows the same values. They also display system traffic between the computer and router which is usually around 100 Byte or less up and down.

    On a 200GB plan that is only 160GB for actual download data because its seems 10% is also lost in the download for additional data to provide these checks.

    Yesterday I net downloaded 20GB, the network usage in that time period of my account on the provider's website showed 22GB down and 2GB up.

    I have got caught out before and ending up being shaped without understanding why.
    Some months I don't need that much download so I don't want to pay for a higher plan.
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    I would still be interested if anybody could share their download upload ratio on a single download with nothing else running if possible and which provider you are using.
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 09-04-16 at 01:05 PM.
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    Maybe your ISP charges a flat rate of 10% of every download the same way Mobile Phone Carriers set the increments of how your charged when making a call.
    I stand unequivicably behind everything I say , I just dont ever remember saying it !!

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    Torrenting is well known for having fairly heavy ack (and other TCP control traffic) traffic. Instead of downloading from a since source with torrents you download from heaps of sources. There can be so many connect attempts that it can overwhelm the amount of memory a home router has available for tracking connections leading to them crashing or otherwise misbehaving due to poor design of their firmware. More recent routers have far more memory and can cope with the large amount of connection attempts.

    Some torrent clients can use UDP, but that requires the other end to support UDP too and while it does save on ACK traffic there's still plenty of UDP control traffic to account for quite a bit of upload use when all the client is supposedly doing is downloading.
    Last edited by SpankedHam; 09-04-16 at 04:47 PM.

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