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Thread: Four people die in Dreamworld accident

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    I went for a ride on one of these rides several times this week.
    I think that says something about this type of ride.
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    that you have a death wish?? :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyPatrol View Post
    that you have a death wish?? :P
    I do. I have a list of several names I'd like to see dead.

    Oh, you mean autonecrotic. Yeah, waiting to get on the ride, you could die of old age in some cases.
    There are several of them running in parks across the USA. Dollywood, Disney, Six flags.
    Under the American legal system with it's hyperactive litigation. I might imply they're pretty confident the ride is safe.

    I paid attention to the layout of these rides compared to dreamworld and in my uneducated opinion, I would guess from the layout, it could happen on any of these rides. There is no supervision of the track other than at the loading area. The controller sits in a tower overlooking the deck and that's it. Everything else is on auto pilot.

    Really, I'm not sure what to make of it. The simplest answer would be that the accident was a freak occurrence.
    But you know how the Australian media loves to over react and find some blame. If the coroner comes to that sort of conclusion, then the media will then beat up on them.
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    I think they are generally safe as well. I've taken the kids to Disneyland and wouldn't do so if I didn't think it was safe. As for the queues....

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    Findings to be released tomorrow

    Does not sound good
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    see
    Queensland's coroner has referred Ardent Leisure back to the state's Office of Industrial Relations for potential prosecution, after handing down a damning 300-page report into the 2016 tragedy at Dreamworld that killed four people.
    Coroner James McDougall's scathing report into the deaths of Cindy Low, Kate Goodchild, Luke Dorsett and Roozi Araghi highlighted "unjustifiable" failings of Dreamworld and its parent company Ardent Leisure to ensure its rides were safe and up to standard.
    Coroner McDougall said the tragedy revealed a "systematic failure by Dreamworld in relation to all aspects of safety", with details about the theme park's failure to keep accurate risk assessments, ride maintenance logs, and staff raising previous safety incidents without changes implemented all highlighted in his report.
    The coroner also recommended stricter regulatory frameworks to improve the registration, licensing and safety inspections for theme parks statewide.
    I'd like to see the former CEO of Ardent Leisure, Deborah Thomas, in the dock over her callous disregard of the safety of the ride and of her disregard of the grieving of people in wanting to reopen the park while the investigators were working out what went wrong.
    Last edited by RogerTheDoger; 25-02-20 at 02:27 AM.

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    The CEO NEVER gets held responsible ang there are never any sentences hamded down no matter what they have done or laws the company has broken.
    The company will be fined and that will be about it.

    Victims families will get a payout and it will be assumed they have been adequately compensated for their loss, the company has paid their dues and the company and management will go back to the business as usual of making money. Meanwhile the families are fked for the rest of their lives. The loss of one affects so many that is never taken into account.

    In many cases, the cost of prevention is weighed against the cost of penalties if something goes wrong.

    If management of all companies faced jail time for negligence resulting in death and injury, there wouldnt be the amount of accidents and disregard for safety and practices there are in so many places and industries.
    Last edited by george65; 25-02-20 at 09:39 AM.

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    This is a lot like many software EULA ~ folks click ok, ok, ok without reading. Entertainment parks and amusement rides all have terms and conditions of entry/usage, but how many people read them before handing over their money?

    I have to admit I've never read DreamWorld's T&C before this morning....(and I'll get to that)...this is because over decades of living, I've become quite accustomed to the fact amusement rides sometimes fail & sometimes people die. It's history. From an engineering stand-point, that's really unsurprising. These are machines, and machines can fail. As we know, even those machines we rely on for mass transport (aircraft, buses, ships, boats), which are subject to the most stringent engineering practices and rigorous maintenance schedules, can sometimes fail. Amusement park machinery should be subject to the same level of scrutiny, but when was the last time I went to an amusement park, and saw that level of obvious high standard maintenance?...umm, never.

    So I won't hop on amusement rides nor advise any of my family to, because I know (and we should all know by now) just how many 'accidents' have happened due to cut cost maintenance, and money hungry profit hunting owners...it happens, yeah, even with aircraft. I pretty much think that's what this clause from DreamWorld's T&C alludes to ;

    'There are inherent risks in the participation in or on an amusement ride, waterslide, device, attraction or the interaction with animals. You, by your participation, accept the inherent risks of which a prudent person is or should be aware. You should consider this participation an exercise in good judgement and act in a responsible manner while using the facility.'

    Here, I have always read 'inherent risks' to include the possibility that some jackass hasn't serviced the machinery properly - I'll pass, risk is too great once you factor in human greed/stupidity and historical reference.

    The more interesting clause that everyone I guess blithely accepts without reading as they buy their admission ticket, is this one;

    'The Company takes all reasonable steps to provide you with a safe and enjoyable park. However The Company will not be liable for any person in respect of the loss of life or personal injury to, any person, whether that loss, damage or personal injury is caused by any person’s negligence (including the negligence of The Company) or otherwise.'

    Now, I would never agree to that. The only recourse there for -any- compensation if something goes wrong incurring loss of life/injury (and this is what you see happen), is if the regulatory authorities find The Company failed to comply with safety and maintenance schedules as stipulated for their operations by government agencies (summarized by the words takes all reasonable steps to provide you with a safe and enjoyable park) - if it is found they failed to take 'all reasonable steps', the end user has still agreed to not hold them liable, even in the case of it being *their* negligence that caused the loss.

    I doubt incarceration is the answer, unless we're all happy with the notion our taxpayers' dollar is paying for their term at Her Majesty's pleasure. Likewise as history tells us, how many of these 'business criminals' actually do get nicked, get stuck inside for a few years, only to return again in some other (or the same) industry to do it all over again?

    No...clauses like that, should not be allowed to be included in terms & conditions. The powers-that-be should be stepping in on the people's behalf, and removing clauses such as that from T&Cs, so that The Company *does* become liable for every customer's life and well-being, from the moment they buy their ticket and enter/use the facilities, to the moment they leave... that simple. Once you increase the perceived/possible fiscal impact that could come from -all- customers when/if something goes wrong, only then does it become in The Company's interest to ensure nothing goes wrong (as much as humanly possible). It would also be useful if folks took the time to properly read and understand the Terms&Conditions when using facilities such as this, *before* they buy their tickets ; the world's very much caveat emptor these days.

    Ref.
    Last edited by wotnot; 25-02-20 at 12:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wotnot View Post
    This is a lot like many software EULA ~ folks click ok, ok, ok without reading. Entertainment parks and amusement rides all have terms and conditions of entry/usage, but how many people read them before handing over their money?
    The thing is I believe they have you over a barrel. You don't accept, then go home. You try and tell your kids that something might go wrong and if they do the company has no liability and you won't accept these terms and conditions.

    I just dropped my father off at a private hospital an hour ago for a procedure. As they check him in they push these papers to him and say sign this.
    That's after telling him not to bring wallets, phones, glasses jewellery or personal effects with him for the day surgery. How the Fk is he supposed to read what he's signing, if he could how is a normal person going to understand it and if he doesn't sign it, what then? Go to another hospital that will shove the same thing at him or he elects not to sign, not be admitted and die of the problem?
    In any case, I couldn't read the pages of fine print even with my glasses on and I doubt they wanted me to stand there for 20 Min reading it although that is exactly what I have done at some places when they wanted to get narky with me.



    These are machines, and machines can fail. As we know, even those machines we rely on for mass transport (aircraft, buses, ships, boats), which are subject to the most stringent engineering practices and rigorous maintenance schedules, can sometimes fail.
    If you look at the failure of so many thing like aircraft accidents and other machinery, there is a VERY high incidence of cost and corner cutting being the root cause rather than the machinery itself. It's not the maintenance that's done regularly and with a high degree of importance, it's when things get passed over and shortcuts are taken that the problems occur.

    This is exactly why I am dead against Nuclear power. People say modern reactors are safe and well they may be, BUT the dangerous part is the weak link in the greedy humans operating the things. Someone is always worried about money or looking good to bosses or shareholders or the public in general and the cause of every failure is improper operation. There is no way to safe guard against that because the safeguards will always be over ridden by the humans and that is when you have problems. Of course then you have the other excuse of " That can't happen with the new designs" But knowing a problem exists with the old designs, do they ever close them down? No! They run them another 20 years past their design life perfectly illustrating the the preference for profit over safety.

    So I won't hop on amusement rides nor advise any of my family to, because I know (and we should all know by now) just how many 'accidents' have happened due to cut cost maintenance, and money hungry profit hunting owners...
    I wont go on them because if I want to have the shit scared out of me I'll just sit down and think about my life for a few minutes. If I want to feel G forces I'll go up in an aerobatic plane again. Neither of which I have to cue up for an hour for ( a huge insult and a big Fk you in itself if you ask me) and I suspect the plane is better value for money on a cost per minute basis.



    if it is found they failed to take 'all reasonable steps', the end user has still agreed to not hold them liable, even in the case of it being *their* negligence that caused the loss.
    Obviously not a lawer but I don't think that really holds a lot of water. If it did none of these companies would ever be sued and we know they successfully are. My basic understand of the law is you can write any damn terms and conditions you like BUT, if they contravene the law of the land in anyway, they are meaningless.

    In this case with what has been handed down I'd strongly suggest the company will drag any claimants on as long as possible, put them through as much stress and grief as possible in order to make them try and drop the claim and then at the last minute even when they knew damn well they were fked from the start, they will offer a settlement at the last second to avoid a court decision and that will be that.
    Saw it with my sons case. It's a load of criminally immoral shit but too many people making too much money out of it for it ever to be changed.


    I doubt incarceration is the answer, unless we're all happy with the notion our taxpayers' dollar is paying for their term at Her Majesty's pleasure.
    Valid Point.
    While we are living in utopia kidding ourselves something meaningful will ever be done, ( and lets face it, this is a drop in the bucket to corporate bullshit like this) it would be easy to legislate a clause in the law like the CEO convicted has to pay their own way, a prescribed amount per year, If they have been on an income of , say $500K a year and have a net worth of over, say, 5 or $10m between them and their spose.
    Instead of a means test for pensioners, self same thing in being a means test for Corporate CEO's.

    Like I said never going to happen because so many pollies have so many friends in big biz if they didn't come from that themselves, that would freak at the mention of the idea and ruin the pollies, it would never get off the ground.



    Likewise as history tells us, how many of these 'business criminals' actually do get nicked, get stuck inside for a few years, only to return again in some other (or the same) industry to do it all over again?
    And that is exactly why this happens. CEO's generally move on every 5 years anyway and are largely unknown to the public. They fk one company up and somehow they seem to have no trouble moving to another one. It's in the corporate mentality and methodology. They look after each other and are only interested in what is in it for them. Besides, always some Middle/ Lower management to blame it all on as the real cause and claim they are only the figureheads.

    No...clauses like that, should not be allowed to be included in terms & conditions. The powers-that-be should be stepping in on the people's behalf, and removing clauses such as that from T&Cs, so that The Company *does* become liable for every customer's life and well-being, from the moment they buy their ticket and enter/use the facilities, to the moment they leave... that simple.
    I believe this is the case already and in the case of Public safety, they can put whatever the fk they want on a signboard or back of a ticket and it means jack. It might deter someone from suing if they slip and break an arm ( although pretty sure they would still be liable for that) but public safety is inerrant on every business by law. They cannot take that responsibility away from their patrons. You invite the public to come to your business, you are responsible for their safety. That is why you have public Liability insurance. To my knowledge that does not cover the company if they have done the wrong thing such as broken the law but it is because if someone does slip on a dropped ice cream and breaks their arse they business has created a safety issue and is liable.

    Of course being even found liable/ guilty is one thing, getting the money even when awarded is something else again.

    Best way of getting anything IMHO is not through Lawyers, It's through the media, Social or otherwise. Bad publicity is more frightening to a lot of these places than Judgements in my belief.

    That said, I doubt dreamworld has barely noticed a blip in it's revenue in the time since this happened and they re opened and I doubt this being publicized will make any difference either. Most probably, it will ave the opposite effect like it does with airlines.

    Study's show that when an airline has a crash, their bookings don't go down, they go up. Everyone now thinks that the authorities will be crawling up the company's nether regions with a Microscope and they will be doting the I's and crossing the T's so they DO book and fly with them on that basis they will now be the safest airline around.

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    Default Deja Vu - 1 dead, 3 injured after raft overturns on water ride at amusement park

    This time in the US at Adventureland Park in Altoona, Iowa.


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    I hope it's not due to similar circumstances
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    Black kid in Iowa .... I'm amazed the cops didn't shoot him.
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