Pre-Web Satellite Resources
Hi Guys,
Does anyone know or remember what sources of literature or web resources people used for the Asia-Pacific region of satellites like Aussats/Optus B and Intelsat satellites (for example) in the years before things like SatcoDX (circa 1996) and Lyngsat (circa 1999)?
Cool things on Google Groups now where you can view old threads from old forums on the web, going back to like 1991 in some cases, but didn't find much on there.
I know of the World Satellite Almanac Books and so on, what else did people use for updates on transponders, etc.?
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I can only speak for myself here but I remember I bought a huge C band dish (4.2 meters) from Wally Shand, CEO of Videosat back in the late 80's
He regularly sent me newsletters with updates on sats and frequencies (and Gary Cratt of Avcomm did the same) but In those analogue days we could find sats simply by swinging the dish and waiting for static to appear, indicating a satellite had been located.
Then it was just a matter of scanning for free to air transponders, of which there were many in those days. The big Soviet Gorizonts had wide band booming signals and the Panamsat series had interesting FTA channels like CNN and CNBC as well as feeds.
I bumped into an Aussat technician about this time who, with some persuasion, eventually sold me his Scientific Atlanta box which opened all the Australian local TV channels. This was just before this gear became readily available.
I've still got that old BMAC stored somewhere
4.6m C band dish, numerous Strong boxes, GTsat V8 Nova and even an old BMAC somewhere ---
Yeah, those AVCOMM Newsletters were pretty cool, sort of the "Lyngsat" of its day for the Pacific Sats. I think I have one from about 1995.
So, in those days, I am assuming Panamsat sats in the Pacific region was PAS-2, not so? I know there was a Scientific Atlanta box that decoded (I think it was MPEG 1.5 equivalent or some other kind of digital format) PowerVu Channels at one stage, for GWN.
Adrian:
I've rattled through some old sat stuff I kept (for god knows what reason) and the earliest c band info I've come up with is a newsletter from Wally at Videosat from December 1992:
Principal satellites at the time were: Intelsat 8 at 180E Programs included CNN, C span, RFO and AFRTS (US Army)
Intelsat 1 at 183E as well as heaps of feeds
Intelsat 3 at 177E
Intelsat10 at 174E
PalapaB2P at 113E Much the same stuff as now (RCTI, TPI, and Including ATV (Australian TV International) CNN (NTSC) GMA, TV1, TV3 (Malaysia) tons of live Australian sport news feeds, etc.
Gorizont 14 at 140E Brempa Russian news and Bejing Chinese news and movies
I think some of the Intelsats had circular polarisation but were gradually replaced by The Panamsats with H/V polarisation, which one by one arrived in similar orbital positions after this update was published. The exception was the Intelsat beaming French language to the Pacific whose replacement to this day remains circular polarised. EDIT: I see from Lyngsat its now called Intelsat 18 in the same position.
My BMAC was a Plessey (not a Scientific Atlanta as I said) BMAC was an analogue encryption technique and I only used mine for the HACBSS Australian television channels on K band (HACBSS stood for Homestead and community Broadcast Satellite Service for remote viewers) This in turn went through other generational changes before becoming the current VAST.
PS: sorry about the crappy formatting
Cheers!
Last edited by jbeatty; 02-12-16 at 06:08 PM.
4.6m C band dish, numerous Strong boxes, GTsat V8 Nova and even an old BMAC somewhere ---
Haha, no problem.Originally Posted by jbeatty
PS: sorry about the crappy formattingThanks, this is pretty cool. Yeah, the HACBSS became Optus Aurora in 1998 I think it was, it also marked the move of these B-MAC channels to a digital MPEG-2 format. I come from South Africa where they actually make (used to make) those UEC boxes, and I've actually still got a few like the 642, 660, 720.
Ah yes, I've seen the Plessey B-MAC receiver, later they brought out the Scientific Atlanta "B-MAC IRD" which was also a big black box, with no remote control.
Oh yes, the AFRTS, the Armed Forces Network of today I would imagine.
That's what was so cool back then - you could hunt around and find feeds of just about anything! And given it was analogue - nowhere near all the encryption stuff you've got today. You had a couple of B-MAC and E-PAL stuff, and some Rupert Murdoch proprietary stuff (Videoguard or whatever it was called) and Irdeto and that was about it.
If I may ask, did you have a HACBSS system from the 80's when the first Aussats (A-series) were launched?
EDIT: I am actually too young to have known all these systems, but I've been spending about 10 years or so now collecting bits of literature from everywhere about all this stuff. One of my favourites is the TELE-Satellite magazines from around Nov-Dec 1995 when they launched our very first multi-channel satellite platform in South Africa called MultiChoice DStv.
It was on the Panamsat PAS-4 satellite and I think it was one of the first digital packages to be launched in the world, just after Galaxy on Optus B3 and perhaps some others. Our first decoder was a PACE DVR 500 (basically like a PACE DGT 400) and I've still got it. They also had the Panasats 510, 520, which basically looks exactly like the UEC 642 they used for Aurora.
The compression of DStv was on such a knife-edge that they had to coordinate the running times of the different channels in such a way that the one starts as soon as the other turns off.
Another publication I enjoy is Bob Cooper's SatFacts, from about 1994 and onward.
Last edited by irritant; 03-12-16 at 04:04 AM.
jbeatty (03-12-16)
Adrian:
My satellite internet is down atm and my android link is a marginal reflected signal boosted by a homemade dish antenna, so if you will pardon me, I'll be in contact shortly.
Sorry!
4.6m C band dish, numerous Strong boxes, GTsat V8 Nova and even an old BMAC somewhere ---
irritant (03-12-16)
My Skymuster ISP came back "on air" almost as soon as I sent my last!
They were the only licensed "vast" box here for a while (likewise with "Aurora" initially) but they had a few issues such as power supply failure, lock ups, etc.I come from South Africa where they actually make (used to make) those UEC boxes
I think I mentioned earlier I scrounged a system off an Aussat tester so I may have been one of the first! That sure beat the ghosted terrestrial signal we almost had.If I may ask, did you have a HACBSS system from the 80's when the first Aussats (A-series) were launched?
That's the one. As I recall, it was always BMAC encrypted and my Plessey BMAC couldn't unlock it.Oh yes, the AFRTS, the Armed Forces Network of today I would imagine.
I always wondered what was being transmitted. In my "wild, erratic fancy" I could see top secret military video footage of missile tests, etc.
Now my little freesat box unlocks it immediately and it's just the most uninteresting Americana (baseball, network relays etc)
What a letdown!
From the mid nineties onwards more and more sats filled the skies with increasingly little separation, some co-orbital.
To me, the most interesting were those with English language programming. This was mainly the Panamsats, followed by the Asiasats.
Of course, as time went on (especially with the arrival of digital transmission) encryption became commonplace.
Early on (early nineties) feeds were usually unencrypted and I remember watching some live events where the network had switched to a commercial break, but the camera kept transmitting. Some of the very best known and respected Australian commentators changed their personas dramatically, and, assuming no one could see or hear them, started using profanities and whinged to flunkies about how cold their coffee was, etc.
That was an eye opener!
Yes, I recall Bob. Pity I didn't keep any Satfacts.Another publication I enjoy is Bob Cooper's SatFacts, from about 1994 and onward
The rapid rate of "Hacking" encrypted systems nowadays promises to open up even more "FTA" for us enthusiasts, but this will be countered by better encryption. I sometimes wonder how it will all end?
Exciting times
PS: while looking through that old sat stuff I found an original brochure and receipt for my old C band dish and discovered it's 4.6 meters not 4.2 as I always thought, so I've changed my signature to reflect this.
Last edited by jbeatty; 03-12-16 at 03:59 PM. Reason: Revised signature
4.6m C band dish, numerous Strong boxes, GTsat V8 Nova and even an old BMAC somewhere ---
irritant (03-12-16)
No prob.
They've got a nice archive of the Satfacts magazines on the web in electronic (scanned) format - This is where I got all of mine.
Yep, the Armed Forces Network is basically a channel to give the troops (wherever they are) a taste of home sort of thing. I remember them even showing wrestling pay per views and stuff on it if I'm not mistaken. They used to broadcast on the Panamsats and Intelsats because of the global coverage these sats had.
Yeah, today it's different. It's a pity I couldn't have lived in that time. From where I'm located, you can hardly find anything worth hunting for. The best thing on our sats is DStv, everything else (FTA) not worth the effort, especially for all the equipment one would have to buy.
I guess today, one could say, one advantage is maybe that one needs smaller dishes now than one needed before (in general), but the spotbeams with added power they have now (smaller dish required) are being taken up by all these subscription packages. The way to go is probably still C-band.
jbeatty (03-12-16)
HahaI love it when that happens! Sometimes our channels used to forget to do an ad-break and this would happen.
jbeatty (03-12-16)
I've never counted them but there must be thousands of C band channels on about 24 sats visible from my location (roughly similar longitude to Sydney)
Most are Asian language but there are still more English and French language channels than I can be bothered watching.
My Satellite dish arc extends from Measat 3 in the west to NSS9 in the east. I use this dish for C band only (although it has a fine mesh which is suitable for K band)
I watch K band on the Optus sats using a triple lnb setup on a big old internet dish (both Vast and FTA) From my location, the Optus sats are near the zenith.
Great thread you've started here, Adrian. It certainly stirred up some half forgotten memories. Maybe someone else can add to it?
Cheers! James
Last edited by jbeatty; 03-12-16 at 09:09 PM.
4.6m C band dish, numerous Strong boxes, GTsat V8 Nova and even an old BMAC somewhere ---
irritant (04-12-16)
Yeah, I always have this feeling like most of this knowledge is going to be lost to history pretty soon, judging by personal experience of how hard it has been to gather information from those years.
My intrigue started by browsing on Lyngsat and the like and wondering what was broadcasting in these positions before. How the channels changed and moved, and if some of them are still active. My intrigue in Aussie sat TV came from learning things like we used the same set top boxes (the UECs), and finding out things like in those days you had to align the feedhorn and LNB manually for V and H polarisation, also that universal LNBs back then were not the norm, that LNBs had specific parts of the K band that they would function in. I found out that our first LNBs in South Africa were the Cambridge LNBs, that only operated between 12.5 and 12.75 GHz, and had a LO of 11.475 GHz.
Man, I would give anything to be able to see this stuff with my own eyes if I could. If only I could invent a time machine.
jbeatty (04-12-16)
Hah! You're more than welcome to look in my shed, Adrian. I have boxes full of obsolete C and K band receivers, LNB,s feedhorns, polarisers, dielectric plates, controllers etc. SA is a bit far to travel though, I guess.Man, I would give anything to be able to see this stuff with my own eyes if I could. If only I could invent a time machine.
I never throw anything out and now I can hardly move in my shed for junk.
The K band LNB which was first used for the Initial Aussat HACBSS was the Japanese built MASPRO Model LNC-SCF 778 HEMT single polarity which had input frequency of 12.25 to 12.75 GHZ with a LO frequency of 11.3 GHZ +/- 2 MHZ.
This was coupled to an Andrews I.5M prime focus dish and the entire package was sold (in New South Wales at least) by a company called Acesat, whose name was on the dish in large blue letters
Initially, there were only two channels available in NSW, VIC and TAS: ABC and SBS. these were on Plessey BMAC channels 7 and 5 respectively. The other states had ABC and RCTS (I think that was a mix of indigenous and commercial channels on relay but not sure)
Then in July 1994 a chip upgrade was released for the older Plesseys which enabled extended channelling. this was required because new satellites had been launched. These were Optus BI and Optus A3 (co-orbital) Those with the newer Scientific Atlanta BMAC did not require this upgrade. A new LNB was required to cover both polarities as well.
Once again, the states and territories had separate channels allocated but the new line up included ABC and SBS in separate time zones plus new channels Golden West, Imparja, Ten, and Sky channel, which was subscription only.
Just about every Pub (hotel) in Australia had sky channel!
PS: a fascinating article on early days of colour in the US by Bob Cooper Here:
Last edited by jbeatty; 04-12-16 at 06:25 PM. Reason: Clarity
4.6m C band dish, numerous Strong boxes, GTsat V8 Nova and even an old BMAC somewhere ---
irritant (04-12-16)
I still have Mark Long's "The world of satellite TV Asia" purchased from Dick Smith in 1984. Excellent book. Main satellite was Intelsat 4 F3 located at 180° East had AFRTS, JISO, ABC WA and QLD. all was FTA. 16FT was the minimum size to get dissent picks. equipment used was LNA ($900.- for a 50°K) a 70MHz down converter and a 70MHz receiver. In late 1985 technology moved to a Block Down Conversion system. Mark also published an almanac.. This was the era well before internet.
I See current addition of Marks Long book is still selling...
By the way nowadays AFRTS can be viewed on 180° East with a powervu patch
Last edited by B52; 04-12-16 at 05:44 PM.
irritant (04-12-16)
Oh wow, yes, I remember seeing pictures of those on the web somewhere. Those dishes looked pretty solid compared to some of the new stuff. So, it was actually an Andrews? I guess they put the name over the classic red lightning bolt.
The B-MAC channels were on 4 "high-powered" transponders, right? They had 4 channels of 30W power and 11 channels of 12W power, not so? I think channels 7, 8, 14 and 15 where the 30W channels. Channels 1 to 8 were vertical polarization and 9 to 15 were horizontal polarization. Channels 1 to 8 ran between 12.25 and 12.75 GHz, and so did 9 to 15 as well, the polarization allowing the same band to be used twice. This also gave nice spacing between the channels.
I've got an extract here from the 1988 World Satellite Almanac (Global Edition) by Mark Long:
Aussats in position: A1 - 160°E; A2 - 156°E; A3 - 164°E (Data is from 1987 so A3 still listed as awaiting launch).
Domestic B-MAC decoder interfaces (for a B-MAC domestic baseband decoder unit):
Composite B-MAC input (with dispersal) -> Through decoder -> Gives as output: Composite PAL (no sound), R G B outputs, sync output, up to 6 audio outputs (3 pairs), RS422 data (up to 9.6kb), addressable control lines, outgoing control*, ingoing control* (*these can be serial or parallel, but not both)
5 spot beams - WA, CA, NE, SE, SW-Pacific, Papua New Guinea, 2 continental beams covering all of Australia (which I would imagine later became known as the national beams)
Spot beams - 42-51 dBW, National beams - 35-41 dBW, 11 channels of 12W TWTA power, and 4 channels of 30W TWTA power.
Channel/Tp Pol Downlink Fr. (GHz) Beam TWTA
1 V 12.277 National A, or SE 12W
2 V 12.341 WA 12W
3 V 12.405 National A, or SE 12W
4 V 12.469 National A, or WA 12W
5 V 12.533 SE 12W
6 V 12.597 National A, Papua New Guinea, or SW-Pacific 12W
7 V 12.661 National A, SE, or WA 30W
8 V 12.725 SE, WA, Papua New Guinea, or SW-Pacific 30W
9 H 12.309 National B, or NE 12W
10 H 12.373 National B, or CA (Central Aus.) 12W
11 H 12.437 NE 12W
12 H 12.501 National B, or CA 12W
13 H 12.565 National B 12W
14 H 12.629 National B, NE or CA 30W
15 H 12.693 National B, NE or CA 30W
Assignment of HACBSS sound channels:
Ch. A - Television stereo sound (R + L)/2
Ch. B - ABC Radio 2 (mono)
Ch. C - ABC Radio 3 (mono)
Ch. D - Television stereo sound (L)
Ch. E - ABC Radio 4 (stereo R)
Ch. F - ABC Radio 4 (stereo L)
Program Services (Nov. 1, 1986):
Ch.--Beam-----------------Aussat A1 (160°E)-------------------------------------------------------------------Beam------------------Aussat A2 (156°E)
1-----National A-----------Ch. 9 Interchange (E-PAL enc., 6.6/6.65 MHz aud.)------------------------------SE/National A---------Occ. video (6.6/6.65 MHz aud.)
2-----WA-------------------[Blank]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------WA---------------------[Blank]
3-----National A-----------Ch. 7 Interchange (E-PAL enc., 6.6/6.65 MHz aud.)------------------------------SE/National A---------Occ. video (6.6/6.65 MHz aud.)
4-----National A-----------ABC Interchange (6.6/6.65 MHz aud.)---------------------------------------------National A-------------Skyswitch Data Service
5-----SE--------------------SBS (6.6/6.65 MHz aud.)------------------------------------------------------------SE----------------------[Blank]
6-----National A-----------Ch. 10 Interchange (E-PAL enc., 6.6/6.65 MHz aud.)-----------------------------National A-------------Macquarie single ch. per carrier radio service, Reuters AP news & infor. services
7-----SE--------------------ABC HACBSS (B-MAC, incl. ABC Nat. and Regional Radio, ABC Teletext)------WA---------------------RCTS - GWN (B-MAC, incl. teletext)
8-----SE--------------------Club Superstation (B-MAC enc.)----------------------------------------------------WA---------------------ABC HACBSS (B-MAC, incl. ABC Nat. and Regional Radio, ABC Teletext)
9-----National B-----------Dept. of Aviation data service------------------------------------------------------National B--------------Dept. of Aviation data service
10----National B-----------Dept. of Aviation data service------------------------------------------------------National B--------------Dept. of Aviation data service
11----NE-------------------Q-Net: Dept. of QLD Edu. TV Service----------------------------------------------NE----------------------[Blank]
12----National B-----------ABC Interchange (6.6/6.65 MHz aud.)--------------------------------------------Central Aus. (CA)-----ABC HACBSS (B-MAC, incl. ABC Nat. and Regional Radio, ABC Teletext)
13----National B-----------ABC single ch per carrier radio service--------------------------------------------National B-------------Telecom single ch. per carrier voice and data services
14----NE--------------------ABC HACBSS (B-MAC, incl. ABC Nat. and Regional Radio, ABC Teletext)-----National B-------------Sky Channel (B-MAC)
15----CA/NE/National B---Occ. video (6.6/6.65 MHz aud.)---------------------------------------------------CA----------------------ABC HACBSS (B-MAC, incl. ABC Nat. and Regional Radio, ABC Teletext)
Sorry for the terrible formatting guys, can't get my table thing to work.
Last edited by irritant; 04-12-16 at 07:30 PM.
jbeatty (04-12-16)
Just as an aside, did anyone ever receive those Ekran (Russian) satellites at 99°E that used to broadcast in UHF?
jbeatty (04-12-16)
Wow, what was the frequency band of those satellites?
Adrian:
Your Information is more comprehensive than mine. I remember it was impossible for South Eastern state viewers to watch central or western channels (same with Aurora)
Too long ago to remember but I still have an old update from Videosat which is where my information on programming and satellite availablity comes from. think the A1 160E position was back then the location my dish was aimed at. That would be in agreement with your 1988 book. I suppose some of the the Aussats were renamed when Optus took over. I didn't realise at the time all those other sats and transponders existed.I've got an extract here from the 1988 World Satellite Almanac (Global Edition) by Mark Long:
Aussats in position: A1 - 160°E; A2 - 156°E; A3 - 164°E (Data is from 1987 so A3 still listed as awaiting launch).
I remember being extremely relieved to have two watchable channels! I have an old VHS-C camera recording of the first moment the BMAC produced pictures. I filmed all the gear set up on the lawn with a little Sony colour TV and my girlfriend sitting on the grass watching it!
Yes. I still have the Andrews brochure, and the dish still in position, but it is currently unemployed.Oh wow, yes, I remember seeing pictures of those on the web somewhere. Those dishes looked pretty solid compared to some of the new stuff. So, it was actually an Andrews? I guess they put the name over the classic red lightning bolt.
4.6m C band dish, numerous Strong boxes, GTsat V8 Nova and even an old BMAC somewhere ---
irritant (04-12-16)
I think they began calling them "Optus" when they launched the B series. I remember reading that there was supposed to be an Optus B2, but the rocket crashed just after take-off or something. This was in 1992 I think.
Yeah, they were pretty good at manipulating who sees what with the luxury of those directed spot-beams.
I bet it still looks pretty good.
jbeatty (04-12-16)
Adrian:
I dug out 3 old LNB's (from the old sat stuff box) that were once used on the Andrews dish and replaced over the years. The Andrews is in excellent condition still despite the years. All metal components (except the dish) were heavily galvanised and extremely robust.
As you say, many later dishes , especially the throwaway pay tv dishes have largely corroded away!
The LNB's are the Maspro, a Gardiner (which replaced it) with similar specs to the Maspro but probably lower noise, and another unidentified one with just a Videosat sticker claiming 75 degrees Kelvin. All have single polarity and were in turn replaced by later LNB's with dual polarity.
A brochure with full specs on the Maspro is included with them.
Since you are such an enthusiast, you are welcome to them and I could post them to you. They weigh about 500 grams and would fit into a fairly small parcel.
I wonder what the postal regulations governing parcels, security, tariffs, etc are like between our respective countries? PM me your postal details if interested.
Cheers! James
Last edited by jbeatty; 04-12-16 at 10:12 PM.
4.6m C band dish, numerous Strong boxes, GTsat V8 Nova and even an old BMAC somewhere ---
irritant (05-12-16)
There was a Gorizont at that approximate position near where the current Express AM3 is located. It was full of Eastern Soviet state programs and dominated the low western sky (from my location) with booming wideband signals that could be received 2 degrees on either side of it.Just as an aside, did anyone ever receive those Ekran (Russian) satellites at 99°E that used to broadcast in UHF?
The Gorizonts had poor station keeping and wobbled quite a bit which didn't matter anyway!
4.6m C band dish, numerous Strong boxes, GTsat V8 Nova and even an old BMAC somewhere ---
irritant (05-12-16)
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