allover (29-06-17)
I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens. Although the police must be fairly confident the charges will stick, if they have laid them after consulting the DPP.
allover (29-06-17)
I'd wager his vet advises he cannot travel"Cardinal Pell will return to Australia, as soon as possible, to clear his name following advice and approval by his doctors, who will also advise on his travel arrangements,"
allover (29-06-17)
I can see where you are coming from, Bob, but don't think it really means much. We have not of course been able to read the DPP's advice. However, it seems to have been less than a ringing endorsement of charges being brought, instead leaving the matter to the discretion of the Victorian police. Given the political environment in Victoria and the regrettable influence of the Andrews government on policing, I fear a witch hunt. An opinion by any lawyer that charges brought could possibly lead to a conviction means little, particularly with allegations involving child sexual assault.
They're not interested in the facts (whatever they are as I am not privy to them if they actually have any at all), just a mob induced lynching. The anti religious left will be beaming, just as other movements have in ages past even though their zealotry is every bit as loathsome as any predatory clergy.
The ten year hell of Joseph McCarthy springs to mind.
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
I'm with you there, enf. I find it rather perturbing that there is such a media circus attached to this. Regardless of Cardinal Pell's guilt or innocence, he is not going to get a fair trial. Even if the jury is stacked with sympathetic jurors, you can bet your bottom dollar that there will be a mistrial until the prosecution find a "sympathetic" jury. Why has there been ANY media reporting of this case UNTIL they have found him guilty. NO person, Cardinal or Otherwise, deserves to have their name dragged through the muck UNTIL they are found guilty.
I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...
enf (29-06-17)
Interesting
I worked with a Builder last week, whom is almost 60, he and all his mates went to school in Ballarat
He was telling me his mates knew fist hand of George Pells fondling ways.
Amazing what comes to the surface so many years later.
If u want to go on an expedition get a Land Rover, if u want to come home from an expedition get a Landcruiser!
cmangle (29-06-17)
Yes..its amazing what someone can say after what? 50 years?
Heresay and gossip....I worry that that is all it'll take to get convicted by the mob. Your a male OB and therefore a potential predator to the righteous left....if you were a muslim you would be left alone by these same hypocritical zealots, both to preach sedition and violence AND get nothing more than a slap on the wrist for marrying a 14 year old.
This is a scary slope IMO...
Don't get me wrong here...if the guy is guilty due to solid evidence, then he can swing as far as I am concerned....but as humans we don't always make sensible judgements when in a pack environment. Presumption of innocence is paramount to both the well being of our society and our fairness IN that society...
I don't think he can GET a fair hearing anymore....
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
Just now the news services in the US are breaking the Pell Sex Abuse story when it was first posted here, over a month ago, back in May.
Smearing and Dis-respecting President Trump was more important than little boys being sexually abused in the Catholic church?
Maybe the Pope should spend more time chastising Pell instead of trump?
Last edited by cmangle; 30-06-17 at 04:28 AM.
A "CARDINAL" no less, not the local lowly priest sexually abusing the altar boys (of which there are HUNDREDS) but a CARDINAL! Right hand man (pun intended) to the Pope! Tends to make you wonder what is in the Popes closet?
And he has the testicles to condemn PRESIDENT Trump and the Republican party?
Agreed, but at the same time, it is just as easy to be true
The particular guy I worked with i've known for 30 years, he is a very levelheaded, well respected, conservative type.
His father ran and owned a well known Electrical Repair shop in Ballarat.
I have met a lot of his friends, all went to school in Ballarat together.
Sure, stories can get slightly expanded over the years
But this is something i had never heard him mention in 30 years of knowing him.
As is the norm in these situations, you are not likely to spend your life telling people, it is just too embarrassing.
I'd put it this way, from the person i heard it from and knowing the caliber of the people he is talking about.
I'd see no reason for them to make it up, especially now all nearing 60.
But as you say, how does a person get a fair trial when there is no evidence, its all just personal accounts and story telling at this point.
Last edited by ol' boy; 30-06-17 at 06:57 AM.
If u want to go on an expedition get a Land Rover, if u want to come home from an expedition get a Landcruiser!
Exactly many victims lock it away due to being embarrassed, regardless if 30 years have past, the event of abuse is always fresh in the victims memory as if it happened just yesterday. I'll give Pell one thing, at least he has the balls to come back to Australia to defend the charges, it will certainly be an interesting court case.
lsemmens (30-06-17)
I don't doubt the good character of your mate. Yet Pell has been investigated for years without charge until now. And the strength of the case against him is probably indicated by the DPP's lack of enthusiasm, the necessity for a decision by the Police and the doubt over whether he would in fact be charged. This is not of course to say that he is not guilty. So far even the actual charges against him have not been released.
As I understand what your friend told you, he himself does not have first hand knowledge of Pell's alleged "fondling ways". He says his mates do, which I take to mean at least one unnamed mate. I also assume fondling ways means actually fondling a child's genitals, rather than simply hugging a child or other non-sexual touching. I take first hand as meaning that this mate or mate was himself fondled by Pell or was present when another child was. If he or any of his mates have first hand knowledge, have they complained to the Police? Did they testify at the Royal Commission? Has your mate himself told the Police that some of his mates may have first hand knowledge? If someone in this group has first hand knowledge then they have a clear duty to come forward, though I do understand why a victim, particularly a male one of this particular generation, would not.
My reaction to what your friend told you is this. Were I investigating Pell I would obviously want to look into it. Most likely, it is simple rumours and innuendo and gossip magnified over the years. However, if Pell was in fact abusing children it is also possible that there is a real victim or witness to be found. But I would not conclude that Pell is guilty based on what your friend has said even though he obviously believes it sincerely.
In today;s witch hunt atmosphere it is all to easy to see how innocent affection towards a child can lead to rumours and gossip labelling a person a Pedo. By all accounts Pell did play with the children, including in the swimming pool, as well as having contact with them in the course of his pastoral duties. I've little doubt that in the environment at that time he would not have hesitated to show them some affection with hugs, pats, arms around shoulders etc in a way that is asking for trouble today. Did he go further? Or is he a victim of rumour and innuendo? The way he has been pursued and harassed and still no smoking gun has appeared fuels my skepticism.
You have also got to wonder if people are perusing Pell because of his high position in the church and the possibility of a large compensation payout ? or gaining an important scalp to further their cause ?
but, I too agree if it turns out he did bad things he should be shown no mercy & "hung skewered"
Last edited by OSIRUS; 30-06-17 at 10:23 AM.
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Correct, my friend and current client and also ex neighbour, was referring to his friends which attended St Patricks in Ballarat.
People whom i also know.
Yes, by fondling, he was implying it went on.
As for bringing this information to Police attention. I don't think they have. But i might be wrong.
From the brief conversation i was involved in, and mind you, it came out of the blue, we weren't even discussing George Pell.
I didn't even really know much about George Pell.
We were just talking about old mates and who has recently died and who was still left and where they were and what they are doing.
When it came up about which schools they went to in Ballarat.
That is when it was mentioned that 2 of the people i know of, whom attended St Patricks school in Ballarat, both claim to have been on the receiving end of George Pells fondling hands.
From what I took from that conversation, they have all just kept it to themselves.
It was so long ago, in a different era.... perhaps when it was just accepted, even though its wrong.
I don't think it has effected them mentally, they all have sound family life's and successful working careers.
I was just passing on what i heard, as i now realise, it applies to this thread.
It was only when i put his conversation and this thread together, i realised we are talking about the same person.
Agreed, it could just be another story, told too many times removed from the source.
Or perhaps they were making a dig at George Pell's reputation?
But i thought it was interesting none the less.
Correct, if they have something to say, they can come forward and mentioned it to the police.
In which case, it puts them under the spotlight of credibility and public awareness, not to mention to the attention of immediate family and friends.
Would they do that, even if it were 100% fact???
At 60, with a happy life, and in respected positions in society, with kids starting their own careers(one very public), i doubt it.
Last edited by ol' boy; 30-06-17 at 11:49 AM.
If u want to go on an expedition get a Land Rover, if u want to come home from an expedition get a Landcruiser!
Not to forget of course that in an environment where public panic and innuendo is concerned that the totally unjust finger pointers can have waaaay too much influence.
How long ago was it that parents were escorted from swimming events by police for trying to take photos of their own kids on the blocks? The self righteous twitterati of the left used the panic to push their agenda driven zealotry then and they'll do it again if allowed.
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Madness"
Agreed, he is a very public figure
And from an elk that has already had the stick pointed at it.
The only 100% fact i can write here, is the pedo in my town whilst growing up went mostly unnoticed.
He didn't hold a very good job and was just considered a bit weird by fellow school friends and co-workers.
Was not until 25 years later, he was caught in another families home, with a child he walked home from school, saying "Daddy said it was that i walked you home".
That he was arrested and went inside for a short term
(By then he also had priors for snow dropping and perving through peoples windows at night)
And he still didn't get charged or even found out about the things he did which were far far worse (as bad as it gets!)
So, there can be a lot of years things go unsaid or people feel to foolish or ashamed to speak out.
I feel, it is just as likely a person accused in this situation has done something wrong in the passed.
The same can be said for the fact he may not, but my personal feeling, they are more likely to have, than not.
It is just a matter of what can be proved, what can be verified and what stories match the turn of events and perhaps collaborate with other's stories.
Then what the Judge and Jury decide.
I really doubt, people (victims) would be going through this process for no reason?
Why would they?
What is to gain from all the humiliation and examination?
Last edited by ol' boy; 30-06-17 at 12:03 PM.
If u want to go on an expedition get a Land Rover, if u want to come home from an expedition get a Landcruiser!
It was a different time back then
I went to a Catholic convent school in the 1960's & nothing happened to me, but I do remember my mother mentioning once that a priest was "shifted" because he was playing with boys" but it was never mentioned again .....
I also was at a swimming carnival where the priest got changed in the boys change room with the young boys, at the time I thought it was a bit confronting but just avoided looking in his direction, and thought of it to myself as "we are all men" and it is OK even though confronting,
& the priest was a young man (probably in his early 20's) & not long out of school himself, not an old priest
At that time men in a change room with other men was considered OK ..... it would have been considered not OK if he had done something similar to the girls
How times have changed there are now high fences around primary schools where there once was low fences or none, strict rules of who can pick children up from school etc ....
It has really taken the last 50 years to put the current rules in place .....
Even Santa clause is now required to sit with his hands by his sides & do nothing else for photos at shopping centers
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Drawing a long bow with that.
I remember every school swimming event i was at, our Male teacher was in the same change area as all of us, getting changed.
I too thought it was a bit confronting, i mean, it is the first time you see another Man's ding dong outside the family home (no jokes pls).
Like you, you just ignore it, even though it was a bit uncomfortable. We are all just men, as you say.
But being yours was the Priest, really nothing should change, but i bet its made you wonder nowdays
If u want to go on an expedition get a Land Rover, if u want to come home from an expedition get a Landcruiser!
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