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Thread: Vic police have the green light to charge george pell with sexual abuse

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    surely the best punishment would be to make him climb ayers rock for the rest of his life so he knows what a struggle life is ????



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    People keep saying it was one persons word against another
    This is simply not true and inaccurate
    There were two people telling the same story about the incident, but one had trouble making it to court
    The fact the second witness had related what occurred to him that day to a number of witnesses many times prior to his death, verified what was said by witness number one
    No! It was only one person's accusation the other "accuser" had told someone else prior to his death. That "evidence" is only HEARSAY and is about as reliable as a politician's promises. The ONLY "evidence" is the accuser's word against the accused.
    I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...

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    Quote Originally Posted by lsemmens View Post
    no! It was only one person's accusation the other "accuser" had told someone else prior to his death. That "evidence" is only hearsay and is about as reliable as a politician's promises. The only "evidence" is the accuser's word against the accused.

    huh???
    There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Madness"

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    Quote Originally Posted by DB44 View Post
    It certainly seems to have been in Pell's case. I appreciate your position. It is not an easy area, and there is much injustice, mostly on the side of the guilty going free. But adopting the me too type approach that the accuser must be believed is not the answer.
    I don't think they MUST be believed at all
    What i meant by "I'm sure its not as simple as you portray" is the process and scrutiny the accuser would have to go through, before reaching such a point as to be believed.... Would not be a simple one.

    It sure convinced 12 Jurors. Do you honestly think any old story would get passed such a system?
    I appreciate your concerns on the legal system, just as the 3 appeal judges are also only expressing an opinion.
    The whole thing is just based on opinion..... And this is why there was a Jury.

    As you say, many guilty would go free and there is the possibility an innocent party could be wrongly convicted.
    Unless we have witnessed exactly what the jury has seen and heard, it is hard to comment... One can only imagine it was overwhelming.

    This type of case runs in Australia on a daily basis.... and 95% just run out of steam and die.
    One in NSW last year i was privy too, where a daughter complained about historical sexual abuse from her father when she was a child.
    More or less exactly the same.... Her word against his. Police made her wear a wire and go and talk to her father to try and procure some evidence or admission.
    Daughter never asked the right questions and the father was far too cagey to answer them directly. Case is still ongoing today.
    Listening to the tape, any normally adjusted half intelligent person could tell he was deliberately evading a direct admission.
    Statements like "Why did you have go and mention that?", "That was just special father daughter time" etc.....

    None of it will stand as evidence.... As it could mean anything. It could be innocent....
    The accusers sister also admits to the same abuse, but she doesn't want to get involved and go against her father.
    What do you do in situations like this?
    So far its just a huge waste of NSW Tax payers money as its the NSW DPP one side and NSW Legal Aid the other side.....

    There was obviously some more convincing details in the Pell case.....

    Will be very interesting to see if the High Court is even interested in this case
    Last edited by ol' boy; 25-08-19 at 09:58 AM.
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    Most depends where your from ? all races seem to have a different outlook on sex age some more some less age , but who set the standard and where does it start from its not based on puberty or reproductive age , but little boy bums seem to be quite preverted in any race , If both parties want to do it ,or one doesnt ,society pokes its nose in and makes a manditory date by whos authority ??? but theres no manditory time for the authorities to act , as a result facts become distorted , maturity expands the vocably of the complainant and untruth sneaks in until a rowboat sunk on the duck pond then becomes the sinking of the bismark so the whole lot is a fvcken guess and who tells the best lies nothing more

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    I don't think any reasonable jury should be satisfied beyond reasonable doubt based on a single persons word without even the slightest of corroboration. Yes, accusers go through hell and are subject to much scrutiny. Many are deterred from proceeding. But many do, and testify convincingly. But not always truthfully.

    Last edited by DB44; 25-08-19 at 10:39 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DB44 View Post
    I don't think any reasonable jury should be satisfied beyond reasonable doubt based on a single persons word without even the slightest of corroboration. Yes, accusers go through hell and are subject to much scrutiny. Many are deterred from proceeding. But many do, and testify convincingly. But not always truthfully.
    I agree, like Mick Gatto when he shot Benji....
    No wittness's.... It was Self Defence... of course it was
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    It is actually quite rare to find no corroboration whatsoever, as in this case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ol' boy View Post
    I don't think they MUST be believed at all
    What i meant by "I'm sure its not as simple as you portray" is the process and scrutiny the accuser would have to go through, before reaching such a point as to be believed.... Would not be a simple one.

    It sure convinced 12 Jurors. Do you honestly think any old story would get passed such a system?
    I appreciate your concerns on the legal system, just as the 3 appeal judges are also only expressing an opinion.
    The whole thing is just based on opinion..... And this is why there was a Jury.

    As you say, many guilty would go free and there is the possibility an innocent party could be wrongly convicted.
    Unless we have witnessed exactly what the jury has seen and heard, it is hard to comment... One can only imagine it was overwhelming.

    This type of case runs in Australia on a daily basis.... and 95% just run out of steam and die.
    One in NSW last year i was privy too, where a daughter complained about historical sexual abuse from her father when she was a child.
    More or less exactly the same.... Her word against his. Police made her wear a wire and go and talk to her father to try and procure some evidence or admission.
    Daughter never asked the right questions and the father was far too cagey to answer them directly. Case is still ongoing today.
    Listening to the tape, any normally adjusted half intelligent person could tell he was deliberately evading a direct admission.
    Statements like "Why did you have go and mention that?", "That was just special father daughter time" etc.....

    None of it will stand as evidence.... As it could mean anything. It could be innocent....
    The accusers sister also admits to the same abuse, but she doesn't want to get involved and go against her father.
    What do you do in situations like this?
    So far its just a huge waste of NSW Tax payers money as its the NSW DPP one side and NSW Legal Aid the other side.....

    There was obviously some more convincing details in the Pell case.....

    Will be very interesting to see if the High Court is even interested in this case
    .
    If your were selected to do jury duty do you think you can do it, can you be impartial and not like most ZELOTS. Most today that has a story like yours cannot be impartial so for them its GUILTY.

    I will have to find the court case from Tim Meehan a High Flyer Solicitor a very good lawyers that done plenty of Child sex Cases but unfortunately found himself a Woston Correctional Center after swindling $$$$$ (i know why but cant say) but he had on Line (internet) most of the Child Sex Cases that the Child set up the Parent and the Parent was Saved by TIM or got him out of Jail because of GOOD INVESTING Work from him and others.
    I remember one case once particular case. Father stopped this girl seeing this boy, she when behind his back to see the Boy, Father stopped her seeing this particular boy, She complain to her friends that the Father touch her, this girl mother contacted the Police, The Circus starts, the Runaway train is off, he loses his lawn mover business, wife tell him to piss off for touching his own Daughter, losses everything but then after some good work years later the Truth came out. It Show you how Low a Child can go to do this to her Father.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr 672A View Post
    .
    If your were selected to do jury duty do you think you can do it, can you be impartial and not like most ZELOTS. Most today that has a story like yours cannot be impartial so for them its GUILTY.
    .
    Like what?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ol' boy View Post
    Like what?
    Well If one of you family or friends was involved with a case like this it would be hard to be impartial if you selected to do jury duty

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr 672A View Post
    Well If one of you family or friends was involved with a case like this it would be hard to be impartial if you selected to do jury duty
    Not at all, its the first question they ask at the start of the day
    And you go home
    That is the idea of a Jury, that you don't know them but more importantly, that your not related.
    For someone that gives so much legal advise on this forum, how could you possibly not know this?!?!

    But i do know what you are trying to say. And i think i can act very impartially
    BUT, a Jury is asked to give an answer.... You are going to weigh up all the checks and balances and give the best answer you can, regardless of who he is or what the sentence might be.
    There is also 12 in the Jury.... That is also another safety measure..... essentially it wouldn't matter what i said, there is another 11 people.
    The court can't be upset by the answer, considering they made the game.
    Last edited by ol' boy; 26-08-19 at 05:19 PM.
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    The newspapers have got all excited claiming George Pell has applied to the High Court

    Yet i see nothing official, or that the High Court will accept it

    But apparently his legal team told him he has a good chance
    I suppose they have been telling him that since before he left Italy
    Last edited by ol' boy; 25-08-19 at 09:09 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hinekadon View Post
    all races seem to have a different outlook on sex age some more some less age , but who set the standard
    The laws in the country you live.

    All the rest is Irrelevant. Like anything, laws can be different in one place to another and you go by what they are where you are.

    Even raising a question about wether having sexual relations with kids anywhere near the age of most of those that have been violated is rather disturbing to me.
    The age of consent here in Oz is 16 and I think that is plenty young enough and needs no further debate. That applies ESPECIALLY when it involves a much older person rather than 2 kids of similar age that are probably getting funky together under a whole different mindset than some old fart wanting to get it on with a young boy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr 672A View Post
    . It Show you how Low a Child can go to do this to her Father.
    I personally Know a bloke this happened to.
    Guy had a farm worth a decent fortune and sold it. Basically split the money 4 ways between him and his 3 kids. Daughter was involved with a dead beat that got her into drugs and she got it in her head she should get more than the considerable amount she did which the father put in trust for her knowing where it would go and hoping she might come good in time.

    When he wouldn't release the money or give her more, she went to the cops and accused of interfering with her as a young girl.
    Fortunately for the guy nothing she said added up and the story kept changing. The testimony's from his 2 sons refuted everything she said and there were a lot of errors in time lines etc. Luckily the cops put things together and could see she was pretty much out her head most of the time. Perhaps the most surprising and damning thing came from the EX wife who the cops interviewed and admitted she hated his guts and was close to the daughter but that was an absolute lie and virtual impossibility in her opinion.
    The case went no where but I saw what it did to that guy and how heartbroken he was that his daughter would even say such a thing to hurt him.

    The daughter did pull herself together a few years back and has spoken to the father and admitted what she did and apologised but understandably, the damage is done.
    Guy is not angry just so disappointed in himself about what he see's as his failure as a parent to raise a daughter that would even do such a thing.
    The brothers have infrequent communication with her and while they all say she is forgiven, it's something none of them will ever get over or ever have a meaningful relationship with the daughter/ sister again.

    I have been with the father when he has had a few and obviously it still plays on his mind and the thought of the accusation brings him to tears many years later that she would ever accuse him of something he thinks is so abhorrent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr 672A View Post
    Well If one of you family or friends was involved with a case like this it would be hard to be impartial if you selected to do jury duty
    I never did Jury duty. I never felt I was up to it. I heard many things from people that did do it and it seemed all like too much of a game of deception for me to make a judgement on what would effect someone else's life.
    I am not a smart or well educated person and certainly made some bad misjudgements of peoples Character so never thought myself fit for that job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by george65 View Post
    I personally Know a bloke this happened to.

    Fortunately for the guy nothing she said added up and the story kept changing. The testimony's from his 2 sons refuted everything she said and there were a lot of errors in time lines etc. Luckily the cops put things together and could see she was pretty much out her head most of the time. Perhaps the most surprising and damning thing came from the EX wife who the cops interviewed and admitted she hated his guts and was close to the daughter but that was an absolute lie and virtual impossibility in her opinion.
    The case went no where but I saw what it did to that guy and how heartbroken he was that his daughter would even say such a thing to hurt him.

    The daughter did pull herself together a few years back and has spoken to the father and admitted what she did and apologised but understandably, the damage is done.
    Guy is not angry just so disappointed in himself about what he see's as his failure as a parent to raise a daughter that would even do such a thing.
    The brothers have infrequent communication with her and while they all say she is forgiven, it's something none of them will ever get over or ever have a meaningful relationship with the daughter/ sister again.

    I have been with the father when he has had a few and obviously it still plays on his mind and the thought of the accusation brings him to tears many years later that she would ever accuse him of something he thinks is so abhorrent.
    Lucky for him she was a amateur. But what happen if you have a person that does his or better still she does their homework, looking for the NICE WORDS to say, all you have to do is look on line for this and hate a person that much that you set up a person to get this charge and will defiantly found to be guilty and go to jail. YOU GOT BUCKLYS CHANGE OF GETTING OFF
    This is the trouble today, you dont need to be a Solicitor or understand how everything works to set one up but if you do or have a gripe with young person like this you up shi.t creek
    I remember years ago one site that I was shown that was Woman against men and how to get rid of you husband so you can bring your new Boyfriend in. I remember reading in one of the points where this person on this site was telling Every woman that want to set up their husband "MAKE SURE YOU PICK THE CLOSEST WINDOW CLOSE TO YOUR NEIGHBOUR AND MAKE SURE THAT WINDOW IS OPEN" shi.t like this, and trust me kids today that want revenge against a parent all they have to do is some searcher on what to say and what not to say and they will have the guy balls and the cops and the Runaway train will do the rest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by george65 View Post
    I am not a smart or well educated person and certainly made some bad misjudgements of peoples Character so never thought myself fit for that job.
    According to the Prosecutor you are the Perfect Choice to be empaneled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ol' boy View Post
    Not at all, its the first question they ask at the start of the day
    And you go home
    And some people wouldn't lie for the purposes of revenge?

    Perhaps couldn't sink their own abuser/couldn't come forward, so the next best thing -- take it out on another alleged abuser.
    Last edited by irritant; 26-08-19 at 06:30 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr 672A View Post
    According to the Prosecutor you are the Perfect Choice to be empaneled.
    I think there is an insult in that somewhere, but I do get your point! :0)

    I got " schooled" by a lawyer once before a case. In the end my head was spinning and I didn't know what I saw, what happened or anything else. It completely threw me and confused me more than I have ever been in my life. I was just stunned at how things could be turned around and mis represented and how the whole process was such a crock.

    No way did I want to go through that again and be making judgements when I had an insight as to how contorted and maligned everything could be.

    I learned then, the law is anything BUT about the truth or justice or even facts, it's just a set of rules to play a very twisted and often Immoral game by that have nothing to do with the principals the ignorant like me had assumed.

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