I can tell you from experience that Police act on a report, get evidence, press charges and then try to act upon it if there is enough evidence to get a conviction, its their job, its for all legal matters.Originally Posted by george65
They consult their lawyers by presenting evidence, their lawyers look at it and make the decision to fight it or not, if they dont have enough there they drop the charges.
Feed the court system with a case, look for a guaranteed win, even if it means a "no conviction" recorded, its in their records, your name is marked.
Funny how the court system works, your lawyer sits with the police prosecution lawyers minutes before the case is heard, your lawyer throw a few bits of argument with them before fronting a judge to unsettle them, they sit and negotiate lesser charges if the person admits to something lesser so the police can be guaranteed a conviction for their books.
Its hardly a innocent till proven guilty system working with beyond reasonable doubt, i wonder how many innocent people have taken the "deal" to avoid the big charges that they thought might stick.
Funny you should mention that, my wig used the same tactic to negotiate my guilty plea - when it got passed up to SC, His Honor deduced this had, in fact, taken place ~ he was not impressed with queen's counsel about this.Funny how the court system works, your lawyer sits with the police prosecution lawyers minutes before the case is heard, your lawyer throw a few bits of argument with them before fronting a judge to unsettle them, they sit and negotiate lesser charges if the person admits to something lesser so the police can be guaranteed a conviction for their books.
You are quite right. There are many incentives for accused to take a guilty plea, sometimes to a lesser offence or offences. There is a discount applied automatically in sentencing for an early guilty plea. Also, sadly, people are often faced with the fact that, even if innocent, a conviction could carry prison time. And, no matter how strong your case, you can never be completely certain of an acquittal. Also, to defend a serious criminal matter can be ruinously expensive, with the Police or DPP rarely ordered to pay costs. We should not lose sight of the fact that George Pell had access to plenty of money and engaged Brett Walker, who is arguably the best advocate in Australia right now, to conduct the High Court Appeal. To someone without these resources who knows what might have happened. Domestic Violence type orders are amongst the worst for this sort of thing. Because, at least in NSW, they used to involve no criminal conviction but only the loss of the right to a firearms licence for 10 years, many defendants would simply consent to the orders being made rather than incur the cost of contesting them. Sometimes this lead to real injustice later, with them facing allegations of breaching the orders, which is of course a criminal offence. The system is weighted towards a guilty plea. This often results in innocent people pleading guilty, which is not very satisfactory. However, what is the alternative?
And that's one of the main reasons AU is roooted ATM, ppl formulate their views on what the talking (lying) heads tell them..............I must be immune.......... because watching the ABC (and most of the MSM) just makes me want to vomit !
A couple that come to mind, suspension without pay for the prosecutor if they get more than xx% wrong.
Option for those taking the plea bargain 'under duress' to notify the judge of this
Prosecution forced to pay costs if judge even suspects malicious prosecution
Tiny (14-04-20)
Bored when it was raining the other day, I watched some recorded pieces from the ABC and also the American Fox and CNN.because watching the ABC (and most of the MSM) just makes me want to vomit !
I never look at anything on those Channels but have heard about their Bias frequently. Actually seeing how they carried on shocked me.
Fox and CNN were just Blatently calling Trump out as being a liar, an idiot, calling for his removal and a lot of other things way over board. All based on Their pre decided agenda. They presented no evidence or fact in what they were criticising, just in their minds it was wrong so he should be removed from office and had a couple of bleeding heart nobodys supporting that position with no reason why either other than he wasn't doing what they wanted him to do.
Pretty clear if he gave water to someone Dying of thrist they would have some shock factor criticism of why he was a bastard for doing that as well. They clearly take every action anyone does that doesen't suit their position and make out it's a crime against Humanity.
ABC was similar, obsessed with the climate cult as always but in what I saw, not quite to the same degree as the yank stations but more than bad enough.
I realise I am Naive but I had no idea they would even be allowed to get away with the shit they were spruking and what they were inferring by all but saying it outright.
Would not have thought it was possible to make such allegations and slander people in serious ways and get away with it in this day and age. Call someone a Poof or a lezzo or a Nigger and you will be up on charges. Say these other things about people that suit the particularly lefty agenda which are more damning and insulting on national tv and that's OK, that's " Journalism".
Something is Very Fking wrong with the media, VERY wrong!
kclar (12-04-20)
I think ppl with half a brain are finally waking up to the fact
Tiny (14-04-20)
I don't really care about the commercial media, as frustrating as they can be. They use their own money.
The ABC uses mine, and yours. It's uber left talking heads have a guaranteed high public salary and superannuation at OUR expense. Their self important and bigoted luminaries are a biased joke. Also the ABC has a defined charter that is supposed to guarantee fairness which they blatantly ignore.
Given the choice, I'd dissolve their news and current affairs arm and save the money. That way the useful stuff they produce (and there is a lot IMO) could get more funding. In the words of an ex labour minister (can't remember which one) they have "embarrassed and disgraced themselves." And that was BEFORE the abusive Pell pogrom.
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
But what happens if they are REALLY INNOCENT. Now they give you a tougher sentence and say you live in SE Queensland as I mainly I know 3 case in 10 years like this and when you are found GUILTY IN A SHAM COURT with ZEALOT Juries you got to Roma Street Lock house then they send you to BCC (Brisbane Correction Centre) and they interview you and they ask you " Are you maintaining your Innocents, A person says YES, you find yourself in Marlborough or Townsville away from your family
Mind you the Person that said not guity for 4 years and said to the judge not guilty in court but once in jail he reverted to Guilty (could be Purgury) because he was told if you want to see your family for the next 7 years you have to stay in a Brisbane Prison and the only way to stay in a Brisbane Prison you have to stay you have to say Guilty. Yes The System uses the Rubbish that Wolston and Arthur Gorrie is a Sex Course jail ONLY but I was told it was Rubbish.
DO you know when the people that does this Sex Course that Have to right down how they TRUCKED the Child in detail and sign and date it where the system passes this info that is Public so the abused person uses this for a Civil case. I have said before that Criminal and Civil case are Different.
So once again Its Bad that you were found GUILTY when you were really 100% NOT GUILTY to start with but Jail its not the problem, No not the problem, the problem starts when you are in Jail that is worst than going to jail in the First place where the mental torture start for a Innocent person than can last for many year untill you get a High court Appeal (Forget the Supreme Court appeal)or get out of Jail and start you Case up Again where 90% Dont but if you do you will get Visits from the Cops at 1 AM in the morning. Most that I know that has been found guilty and they were not guilty all the way tried to get a PRO-Bono Lawyer (that's just about impossible) or committed suicide. In Five year I never heard a Person to go to high court as high court and legal aid dont mix.
Again The LAW is a ASS But I do know the Dirty Tricks used by the Police/DPP/Correction Gestarpo whilst in Prison and related to this. oooOh yeah most Lawyers know the dirty trick used because they have been told this on criminal Trials by the Defendant after or during time in Jail if and where the Mail is released or censored. Please Haaa My friend told me of the Missing Letters that were written "Legal Privilege"
Last edited by Mr 672A; 12-04-20 at 06:32 PM.
According to late night news last night the Victorian DPP have received NEW FRESH information on a NEW complainant that said he was abuse by Pell in the Ballarat days. Maybe he is one of the Prisoners that complained to the screws that Pell was let out from Barwon Prison but yet this other is stuck there for another 10 years
Last edited by Mr 672A; 14-04-20 at 11:01 AM.
Been watching this Fktard on another forum ranting that he can't Understand why pell wasn't held accountable for all these other molestations that took place that he reckons Pell must have known about and didn't report. Going on and on about it and other things Pell said in his trial.
Can't seem to make this twit understand, or does not want to understand He wasn't on trial for not reporting other Crimes, he was on trial for the ones he was accused by someone of.
This Dick well could be a certain someone from here that seems to think what they think must be right and anyone THEY think guilty must be. Not just a matter of opinion, this guy is virtually jumping up and down and foaming at the mouth. Keeps repeating himself over and over and getting more vicious as people try to point out the flaws in his reasoning.
If the guy isn't on drugs, his doctor bloodywell ought to give him some !
Told this clown several times, If you can prove he knew anything, take it to the cops. He goes on about all these Things pell supposedly knew about happened and should have been convicted for which are NOTHING to do with what he was accused of. In this guys mind, that's irrelevant, they shouldn't have let him out because of these things. Nut Job.
He said Pell made all these incriminating statements in his trial but the cops have done nothing about them. I said with the lengths they went to to stitch him up and you reckon they are just turning a blind eye to something they must have recordings of and witnesses to? Talk about dreaming!
Just incredible the amount of people that with no real clue of facts, think because they believe someone is guilty they must be, then start having caniptions when no one does what they think they should.
How the hell do people get so full of their own importance like this?
Have to check if the Bolt interview with Pell is up yet. Should be worth watching.
Just incredible the amount of people that with no real clue of facts, think because they believe someone is guilty they must be, then start having caniptions when no one does what they think they should.
How the hell do people get so full of their own importance like this?
Pell said in the Bolt report last night something about How the Pendulum had swung ....
in the 1950's etc a Priest was believed even if the evidence did't fit that well ....
in the 2020's a Complainant is called a victim and is believed even if the evidence does't fit that well ....
Neither of the above is a correct way for Law authorities to look at it .....
Lets hope they amend their Laws and practices to make it fair for both
Last edited by OSIRUS; 15-04-20 at 10:30 AM.
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Mr 672A (15-04-20)
Yes it was on at 10 PM on Sky on WIN and it was very interesting and I totally agree the pendulum has swing the other way as all you need now is get the BONE pointed to you about Child sex case and you are stuffed. ITS A RUNAWAY TRAIN and it does not stop even when you are in Jail because the Jail system take over and continues by mentally tortures you as if you say you are innocent the system tries hard to break you down until you confess your so called sins.
Now I will give you one case that I was told. A guy that lived in the Gold Coast got charged and convicted with Child Sex case he went to BCC (Brisbane Correction Centre) and a week later after saying to the Gestapo in jail he is Innocent and I did not commit these crimes so after the GESTAPO heard this they ship him to Marlborough them to Townsville and back to Marlborough (Mind you the people charged with the same offenses that live far north are shipped the Brisbane Jails ,,, WHY?) yes this guy has not seen his family for 6 years and in six years the gestapo in jail has seen him a few time and told him if you want to go to a Brisbane jail where you wife and you kids can drive up from the Gold Coast and see you just Sign this that you will complete the Sex Course and must SIGN THAT YOU ABUSE THE CHILD. Now this is a Big CONN MORE LIES MORE LIES Because as Far as I know all Solicitors should know this that that in QLD if you are charged with any Child sex case you cannot see anything under 18 years old YES 18.
Now with this case that I was told His wife came up from the Gold Coast to Marlborough and had to leave the kids home alone and when she got there at the Jail (she Booked for a Visit one week earlier) and when she got there the System found a reason why she could not see her Husband (eg Maybe he did not do his bed right for the weekly inspection) and her wife drove all that way for nothing and did not see here husband only to have a bad car accident on the way home. No doubt she was angry.
Working for few Solicitors for nearly 6 years I have heard a few stories but one that has stuck in my head is,,,,,, If a guy goes to jail and he had said he was innocent he was set up or other when he goes to jail his wife and his friends say he was a good man not violent man a man that would not say BOOO to anyone but when he come out he has changed and become violent and can pick a fight with anything.
I can tell you that I know another case that I videoed in the early days and he still went to jail because he used useless legal aid after he ran out of money and assets as just before i finished doing my job for under 6 years as I had enough of this work this guy was releases from jail and years later he was on the NEWS Again but it was not another Child that he so called Abused noooooooo not that and the reason why he was on the NEWS was he Killed some poor guy after a argument. After I saw this I rang my Solicitor Friend and told him what was on the News and my Solicitor Friend replied something like this as I dont remember EXACTLY,, Well This is not the First case like this as a person was found guilty and we suspect he was innocent and goes to jail and he was a good polite person but come out from jail and is OFF and arrogant and can commit a violent act like Murder, I have seen this before.
Now For George Pell he had 405 Days in confinement and after listening to him last night he had not a angry word to say about anyone because I suspect if a Average person was given that interview by BOLT and when it comes to a touchy point (THE ABC AND THE DPP AND THE POLICE) this person would have froth coming out of his mouth and will be extremely ANGRY.
OSIRUS (15-04-20)
WHY? the Jail System works hand to hand with the Victim. See if you have said a thousands time you are INNOCENT!! but found Guilty in a SHAM of Court with Zealot Jurors you could be sued for compo because a Criminal Case is Different from a Civil case so If you have been found guilty in a criminal trial you could be found not guilty on a civil case, trial visa versa so to get more evidence for a Civil trial they want more evidence so this is where the Gestapo come in the Prisons as when you do your sex courses to get parole (No sex course hard to get Parole) they ask you to wright down how did you abuse that child IN DETAIL so apparently the Prisoner write it down but the gestapo says NO Its not good enough , WRITE IT DOWN AGAIN!!! to match what the Gestapo have written in front ( have to match roughly whats written in the Police Brief) and when you are finished the Gestapo ask you to sign it and because this written and signed by you this will find in the hands of the accused that will be used this in a Civil case to extort money out of you. I have heard horrible stories on what goes on with this matters and most of them are no good for the defendant.
Yes the Dirty Tricks used today. I stand for EXPOSING THE DIRTY TRICKS.
OSIRUS (15-04-20)
This alone makes me sick and if you speak to any Criminal lawyer they will say the same.
OSIRUS (15-04-20)
I watched the interview and as much as I'd regularly say religion is a load of crap, the guy won me over.
I don't consider myself a good judge of character at all. I have made what turned out to be quite bad mistakes in that area but I have also many times got a feeling about some people that went against the grain and turned out I was right.
In any case, that's the whole problem with this entire shit fight. It went on personality of the accuser and not the facts and evidence of the case. Whether he was a Kiddy Fiddler or not, which I doubt, he couldn't have done what he was accused of in that case and that's it. I have NO doubt he was stitched up real bad.
Guy comes across much different to what I thought he'd be like having not watched interviews before. To me he seems pretty Creditable. He did make one off hand comment that I thought was very Poignant. In regards to earlier accusation going back to the 80/90's, He said back then, he wasn't well known like he is now, he would have just been another brother in training coming through the places and no one would have known him from anyone else. That seems pretty accurate to me. If he did fiddle some kid would they still not know him? Whos to say but I think it's wrong to automatically assume everyone in the church was a kiddy Fiddler.
Bottom line is he didn't fiddle this kid in the way he was accused and those that let him spend time in Jail for it need to be held accountable for the blatant shitfkery in letting it get that far.
Just in case you missed it, what premier Daniels has been saying openly, and not been threatened by law suits, has been confirmed by a Royal Commission, Pell is a liar and harbored known pedophiles, ruining lives to the point of suicide, what a great asset to the community
And for all those that are under the impression he got off his recent jail term because he was innocent are wrong, he got off on a technicality
Read the attached, written by a Professor
Should of left the prik in jail as he is nothing other than a dog!
There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Madness"
What law did he break? He might or might not be a despicable pr*ck, but the world is full of them.
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
Being a liar is not a criminal offence as far as I'm aware. -IF- he did harbour Paedophiles, they were not known to the police at least because obviously they would have arrested them or removed them from contact with children. There is every chance at some point the Church and other groups have " Harboured" rapists and Murderers once they got out of jail as well. I think in fact at least in some states they are required to stay with some organisation till they re adjust to life on the outside. Wouldn't surprise me a bit if there are divisions of the church that provide that service same as they have old folks Homes.
in any case, There is a big difference between knowing something, proving it and being convicted of it.
In this case, the "knowing" Could well have been heresay not proven fact and if they were convicted it's not harbouring at all.
And once again, we go back to things that happened 20, 30 and beyond years ago. I don't believe it is appropriate to apply today's standards to things that happened back then not that it is fair to drag these things up from decades ago. If the Victims have lived with it this long, then I think the time to do something about it has well elapsed.
Like what? Lack of evidence? That the 3 high court Judges decided the conviction was wrong because the jury could not be convinced beyond reasonable doubt?? Not exactly what I would call a technicality. That's basic Principals as far as I know, not something from left field buried in a legal book never heard of before.And for all those that are under the impression he got off his recent jail term because he was innocent are wrong, he got off on a technicality
By the same token, it is more appropriate to say he wasn't Convicted because he was guilty, he was convicted without due process of the law.
Sorry but I have lost all faith in these professors and experts. These professors have made all sorts of incorrect claims on a range of issues just this year that have come out nothing like their Dire warnings , predictions and advise. Most of them are so left Biased as are the University's and academic institutions they come from and belong to, I don't trust a damn thing they say.Read the attached, written by a Professor
As far as the media outlet that wrote the story, aren't they the leftie whinges of one of the University's that talk endless leftist shit on a whole range of things?
After the witch hunt Pell has been through, I'm pretty certain that if a Royal commission found something he could be nailed with,the Vic cops would be all over it like a fat kid on a cup cake. They would be even more motivated now to wipe some of the shit off their faces from the conviction being over turned and the arse Kicking they got from the high court to be able to show they were right.
Given the whole thing was a total beat up in the first place, seems to me no matter what he did or didn't do, there isn't sufficen't LEGAL grounds to nail him for it and that's it.
Again, he could be guilty as sin but unless they can prove it ( and it would seem it wouldn't be that hard if he was guilty) then he gets to go free no matter how wrong that may be. The whole problem with this has been they have put due process aside to get him no matter what. Not acceptable and if it means he is guilty and walks, so be it.
Hell of a lot better to me than the other alternative of Convicting people and locking them up because someone THINKS they are guilty and that's all it takes to have them put away. That road just leads to all sorts of anarchy and Bullshit.
Who knows, maybe in another 10 years some other Victim will turn up and claim Pell did something to them in 1975 and they can have yet another go.
Needs to be a time frame for this like there is for so many other things.
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