Pay TV Techs, sick of poor deal

[old mate]

I say double or even triple there salary and pass onto the consumer...

or increase cost of subs all round by another $50 per month...

[tangerinenwhite]

Why don't people just jump ship and go work somewhere else if they think they aren't getting paid enougth? plenty of jobs around these days, not like 10-15 years ago.

You are missing the point Tecom Master. When the pay TV industry started the rates of pay were good but that was twelve years ago and one of the reasons, among others, that rates have gone backwards is because so many of the skilled techs who were in from the start did not have the balls to fight for an increase and instead walked. What do you think would happen to the working man if every boss decided that no worker would get an increase for the next twelve years but did not tell them that when they started.

Do not believe that it can't happen because that is precisely what has happened in Pay TV and in the telephony industry (where rates have actually been cut) and if workers do not stand up against it, it will continue to spread.

Working conditions are getting broken down all the time and the bosses love it when they have got a spineless workforce as appears to now be the case with BSA.

Because Foxtel techs are regarded as independent contractors by BSA/Downer there is no protection for them under workplace relations law. The unions are trying to change this but they are powerless to help because of the laws and so this is a fight that has to be fought by the workers themselves.

Bosses have been giving themselves massive pay increases at the expense of workers, whilst telling the workers that if they give them a rise the sky will fall in.

Do not fall for it, Foxtel made $157 million last year and to restore the pay rates for the techs would cost $21 million of that, it is long past time for the workers to get a small slice of the profit pie and if Foxtel decided to pass the costs on to the subscriber, it would cost about $1.15 per month.

Nobody is asking as Old Mate suggests for a doubling or tripling in rates just simple wage justice.

[biggeorge]

The rates do need to double at least.

10 years ago $160 was a fair whack of money to be paid to a contractor for doing 2 hours of work.

Now they want the same work done for $80-100 and the poor bugger doing the work has to pay more in insurance now, double the fuel costs, and everything else in his life has increased in price according to inflation and quite often more.

A house that cost $100k 10 years ago is now triple that.

Yet, if you were to ask a tv antenna guy to install a pole on your roof, plop a sat dish or antenna on it, tune it up, run a cable down the wall to your tv and connect up the box, he would charge you $300 in labour plus the materials..... and he doesn't get his antennas in flat packs containing 37 individual components per unit.

[tangerinenwhite]

You are spot on Big George, but there is also somethiong else which has been overlooked by the techs.

When techs commenced installing Pay TV 12 years ago it was as sole traders and what they were not aware of was that BSA/Downer were responsible for paying their super under the Superannuation Guarantee (Administration) Act 1992. It is absolutely clear that it is payable by BSA until 2006 when techs were forced to become PTY LTD and I believe that the courts will find it is also payable after 2006 because the PTY LTD arrangements are a sham. (A Newcastle tech is pursuing BSA through the Industrial Relations Commission and he has extremely good advice and case law on his side).

Any tech who has been with BSA from the start is looking at super worth about $36,00 based on average t/over of $80,000 which would nett approx. $40,000. Every year average super is worth $3,600 so do the sums

What the techs have to realise is that if BSA do not put the super into a fund then the tax man will insist that the tech puts it in himself. Believe me somebody has to pay it otherwise it comes out of the tax payer via pensions. Bring BSA to the table and everybody gets it and no probs for anybody.

This is one of the issues being fought for by the techs in Newcastle.

SO SUPPORT YOUR MATES IN NEWCASTLE.

[Tecom Master]

The real problem is all the people that are obviously willing to work for shit money like that. If no one accepted work from bsa for those rates they would be forced to start paying more. The problem is their is always some monkey willing to do it. The second problem is customers that accept shit workmanship that is done by some of these cowboys that enter the industry and work for nothing. I've seen some shocking installs here in wa.

[mate]

Solution to your problem,
Join a REAL union who will represent you.
You see the real issue is that you have a job that has no qualifications. Run a cable terminate it and tune a TV. Whoop deee doo doo anyone can that. You buy yourselves a job that has so many unhappy employees telling you the downfalls yet you join anyway. You sound like people who live next door to an airport that existed long before you moved in.

You pay peanuts & you get monkeys. Maybe the Apes that run BSA & Downer EDI have something over the chimps who drag their knuckles and complain everyday but keep turning up for more day in day out.
Get a new job and leave it to another monkey who they will import from south africa or se asia as soon as you hand your tools in.

heard the same crap many times before, and i'm sure we will hear it again.

[biggeorge]

If you take a look at the US you will see Australia's future.

If you own a painting business in LA for example, you have a big job on for the day and you need 4 workers. What do you do???
You pull up at an intersection and you shout out to the mexicans on the side of the road that you need 4 guys and you'll take the cheapest 4 and let them fight it out over who gets to hop in your truck.

The end result is you get 4 hungry guys to do a days work for 8 bucks an hour, charge your time out at $70 an hour to the customer, pay the mexicans a cash pittance and drop them off at the traffic lights on the way home.

Work Choices my ass, this is our future!!!

The only winner in this country is the employer, thanks to John Howard it's all geared towards the business so that the country can show a nice healthy balance sheet and we're told "We've never had it better" while the average joe has to eat 2 minute noodles so he can get enough calories for the day and his wife takes the baby to work with her in the morning.

[admin]

Solution to your problem,
Join a REAL union who will represent you.
You see the real issue is that you have a job that has no qualifications. Run a cable terminate it and tune a TV. Whoop deee doo doo anyone can that. You buy yourselves a job that has so many unhappy employees telling you the downfalls yet you join anyway. You sound like people who live next door to an airport that existed long before you moved in.

You pay peanuts & you get monkeys. Maybe the Apes that run BSA & Downer EDI have something over the chimps who drag their knuckles and complain everyday but keep turning up for more day in day out.
Get a new job and leave it to another monkey who they will import from south africa or se asia as soon as you hand your tools in.

heard the same crap many times before, and i'm sure we will hear it again.

Its not as cut and dried as that.

Without turning it in to a race issue , I have seen Indian contractorS ( note the S as in multiple ) where there are as many as 3 men in a crew. People who are used to working for peanuts find the peanuts offered here very attractive compared to what they were used to before they came here.

Its not as simple as joining a " real union " ...for one - you would be unlikely to find a genuine one as they are all stacked with Labor party wannabees who are more interested in getting a jump up in to politics than doing what they are paid for. Two , these people are self employed contractors and not employees. They are not afforded any rights whatsoever in regards to industrial laws and simply standing up and saying you are not happy is grounds for dismissal ( not that it would be called that....its lack of work ).

They are paid shit by most peoples standards.....its ok to say go and get another job but there isnt always another job there.

IF they can find a union willing to take them on that is genuine in its intent , they would need to try and change industrial law to have permanent contractors recognised as just that , Permanent Workers , and to be afforded some basic employee rights that a lot of people take for granted. Until that happens , there will always be people undercutting others and companies offering shit rates of pay.

[mate]

the CEPU communications union is where most telco techs have joined over the years, this is a 2 bit telstra public servants union, couldn't get a 2c pay rise if they tried. Join the ETU, it has numbers and muscle to make companies take notice and get its workers decent conditions and pay rates. But all must join & be prepared to listen to those who will represent them.

[Benny]

Guys come on be strong support the cause it's all of our futures
& our kids futures i'm a Novacastion in need
Please get up take a stand
If we act as one we all might just get what we deserve
A fair rate for all

[Tecom Master]

the CEPU communications union is where most telco techs have joined over the years, this is a 2 bit telstra public servants union, couldn't get a 2c pay rise if they tried. Join the ETU, it has numbers and muscle to make companies take notice and get its workers decent conditions and pay rates. But all must join & be prepared to listen to those who will represent them.

CEPU and ETU are the same thing in WA. Don't know about anywhere else. I was a member but they didn't do anything for anyone in the ELV industry (security, comms, AV, TV, etc) so i resigned.

[Benny]

CEPU and ETU are the same thing in WA. Don't know about anywhere else. I was a member but they didn't do anything for anyone in the ELV industry (security, comms, AV, TV, etc) so i resigned.

i'm in the CEPU & they don't seen to be doing much for us that's why we all voted to go on leave

[Tecom Master]

i'm in the CEPU & they don't seen to be doing much for us that's why we all voted to go on leave

I'm not suprised. The only thing they ever did while i was a member was kiss the cfmeu's ass and make a few of the larger elecrtical contracters set up eba's with their employees which only ever extended as far as electricians.

[custom]

A number of years ago, I followed up on the Super idea with ATS (a*). We did not have to become companies but had to buy all our parts etc. With this and the fact that we paid unsurance and owned our own trucks etc, we faliled rthe super prerequisite on a percentage basis(I forget the actual % now). That is the amount you spent to get the job done out of our pocket was less than a pre determined % of the total payment of the job. There fore they did not have to pay us super. ANd as for the whole union thing, ETU did not want to now about pay tv techs at all.

[tangerinenwhite]

With respect, Custom, what you are saying is not correct re qualifying for super and it is why BSA have refused to respond to numerous requests from various techs for an answer in respect of their entitlement to super. One senior BSA executive replied that he didn't have a clue, and yes I do have it in writing as the tech concerned sent me a copy.

The relevant legislation is the Superannuation Guarantee (Administration) Act 1992 (Cth) and below is an extract from a case in the industrial court

definition of employee within the meaning of the Superannuation Guarantee (Administration) Act 1992 (Cth) which stated: If a person works under a contract that is wholly or principally for the labour of the person, the person is an employee of the other party of the contract.

The so-called contracts with BSA are for the supply of labour. This was referred to in at least two cases in the courts. One of them in the High Court, Hollis v Vabu in paras 13-15 makes it abundantly clear that workers in the position such as BSA techs are empl;oyewes for the purposes of superannuation and insdeed it makes it clear that this is so notwithstanding that the techs are PTY LTD.

[ol' boy]

I don't know... people that get themselves in these situations only have themselves to blame sometimes. All this hidding behind unions and be united is for people that can't stand on their own feet. Or at least see the shit they are surround in.

I total agree that the tendered rate per unit delivered is crap. And as has been mentioned, the quality of workmanship is disgusting a lot of the time (running cables externally etc). But for the small amout they are offered each install, i hardly blame them. Thus.... who would ever want to be part of this?

It is clearly a no win situation. The big companys want as many subscribers for the least outlay they can get. That is ALWAYS going to be formost on thier agender. So it ends up being a price game..... If you want to be in a price game, go for it. But you are going to end up working for nothing, so don't be surprised when it happens.
And no union is going to save that. Especially for such a small industry.

I totally feel for those people caught in this mess, it stinks.... no one likes to be on the short end of the stick. But if you want to vote with your feet, then perhaps you have to walk away, because as mentioned, they will be plenty of new Australians willing to work for $80 a day.

And in cities where labour is everywhere, this will only be worse..... It is in the remote locations you might have a small leg to stand on. I have a freind with a Sat Business in Darwin, when the big city boys of Sydney have a national roll out and start telling installers what they will pay per install, he just laughs and tells them to stop wasting his time.... Their hard nose city tactics soon shift when they realise there is no one else up there that can do the job. Then its not long before a pile of newly signed up customers are waiting for a dish..... the big boys see that they are losing money and soon ring back to negotiate a price.

I have seen this happen in a couple of places, but if you work in reach of a major city.... forget it.

[custom]

With respect, Custom, what you are saying is not correct re qualifying for super and it is why BSA have refused to respond to numerous requests from various techs for an answer in respect of their entitlement to super. One senior BSA executive replied that he didn't have a clue, and yes I do have it in writing as the tech concerned sent me a copy.

The relevant legislation is the Superannuation Guarantee (Administration) Act 1992 (Cth) and below is an extract from a case in the industrial court

definition of employee within the meaning of the Superannuation Guarantee (Administration) Act 1992 (Cth) which stated: If a person works under a contract that is wholly or principally for the labour of the person, the person is an employee of the other party of the contract.

The so-called contracts with BSA are for the supply of labour. This was referred to in at least two cases in the courts. One of them in the High Court, Hollis v Vabu in paras 13-15 makes it abundantly clear that workers in the position such as BSA techs are empl;oyewes for the purposes of superannuation and insdeed it makes it clear that this is so notwithstanding that the techs are PTY LTD.

Thats just it. The contract is not geared for labour. You have to supply the parts, truck etc. When we ,overnight had the rates changed to include labour and parts and then had to buy the parts off ATS it changed ( we were told it was to stop them losing cable ,parts etc to our private jobs). Looking back obviously someone in ATS had a look at the contract and how the TAX laws and Super laws differ in their interperation of and employee, and freaked. They changed it to include parts etc and the percentage came into playmeaning they did not have to pay super.

[hamguy2]

hey guys, i agree with yous you should be paid more in my book .also foxtel needs to get some decent programing .i dont mean like hallmark has a country practice ,waterrats all saints etc thats to name a few!! people are fed up with watching free to air tv repeats everyday on hallmark and the rest of the trifal, same as espn no one i know entertains australian content on espn theyve knocked about 50% of good stuff out of espn since this rubbish come on it needs to go .hamguy nsw.

[tangerinenwhite]

Thats just it. The contract is not geared for labour. You have to supply the parts, truck etc. When we ,overnight had the rates changed to include labour and parts and then had to buy the parts off ATS it changed ( we were told it was to stop them losing cable ,parts etc to our private jobs). Looking back obviously someone in ATS had a look at the contract and how the TAX laws and Super laws differ in their interperation of and employee, and freaked. They changed it to include parts etc and the percentage came into playmeaning they did not have to pay super.

Hamguy you have miscontrued the Act, and the definition, this has been tested in court. The Super Act definition of an employee applies to techs as the contract the techs sign is principally for labour and there is documentation in my possession apart from the contract which proves this. The mere fact that parts are supplied to the customer at cost, with no mark-up allowed by the tech, supports the contention that the contract is for labour only.
It is vital that BSA pay the super as per their responsibility otherwise the techs will have to pay and that truly will send most of them broke.

SUPPORT THE NEWCASTLE TECHS!!!!!!!!!!

[tangerinenwhite]

I don't know... people that get themselves in these situations only have themselves to blame sometimes. All this hidding behind unions and be united is for people that can't stand on their own feet. Or at least see the shit they are surround in.

I total agree that the tendered rate per unit delivered is crap. And as has been mentioned, the quality of workmanship is disgusting a lot of the time (running cables externally etc). But for the small amout they are offered each install, i hardly blame them. Thus.... who would ever want to be part of this?

It is clearly a no win situation. The big companys want as many subscribers for the least outlay they can get. That is ALWAYS going to be formost on thier agender. So it ends up being a price game..... If you want to be in a price game, go for it. But you are going to end up working for nothing, so don't be surprised when it happens.
And no union is going to save that. Especially for such a small industry.

I totally feel for those people caught in this mess, it stinks.... no one likes to be on the short end of the stick. But if you want to vote with your feet, then perhaps you have to walk away, because as mentioned, they will be plenty of new Australians willing to work for $80 a day.

And in cities where labour is everywhere, this will only be worse..... It is in the remote locations you might have a small leg to stand on. I have a freind with a Sat Business in Darwin, when the big city boys of Sydney have a national roll out and start telling installers what they will pay per install, he just laughs and tells them to stop wasting his time.... Their hard nose city tactics soon shift when they realise there is no one else up there that can do the job. Then its not long before a pile of newly signed up customers are waiting for a dish..... the big boys see that they are losing money and soon ring back to negotiate a price.

I have seen this happen in a couple of places, but if you work in reach of a major city.... forget it.

Some of you blokes are missing the point.
You cannot run away from a bully, you have to stand and fight or else you will be running all your life and what sort of example does it set for your children when they see their parents intimidated by a bully.
There is only one thing a bully understands, it is a dose of his own medicine and there is more than one way that this can be dispensed.
If all the techs stand together it will cease and justice will be achieved. I have never subscribed to the theory that some of you blokes espouse, that is to walk away, no matter holw big the company they cannot operate without the workers and that applies even more so with the Pay TV industry, where less than a thousand techs can bring it to a halt because it is not an industry which can be mechanised.
As I pointed out in an earlier post, all the techs are going to be hit with massive bills for super unless BSA cough up top meet their obligations.

SUPPORT THE NEWCASTLE TECHS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!