Reply With QuoteROFL did you guys think I was making it up in relation to my comments about the standards in the IP\GPRS thread.Originally Posted by phm
Great. I thought I was on my own.
I'll bet he was.
...and so it seems with some bureaus for whom the standards come first and everything else a distant second.
....and unfortunately both timely and expensive to persue. Honestly, who is going to take on Telstra or Optus ?
The only ones that can "fix" this scam are the bureaus themselves. They are the people who decide what equipment gets installed. They are the ones with the real power to "vote with their feet".
If they decide to boycott the Telstra and Optus solutions, their voices will be heard - loud and clear !
Developer of VoIP2Go at ozvoip.net - Alarm compatible VoIP Network
ROFL did you guys think I was making it up in relation to my comments about the standards in the IP\GPRS thread.
Helstra still SUCKS
From a personal and business perspective, they are THIEVES!
Do you know how often Helstra are in trouble with the TIO (Telecommunications Industry Ombudsman), its EVERY DAY, they are dishonest and have been ripping this country for years, you prob wouldn't know keef if you don't pay the bills. Optas aint as bad, but it does have its faults..
2 Points of contension;
THEY WILL NOT ALLOW ANYONE TO RESELL THEIR ADSL2+ Products, restricting the market for THEMSELVES!
They got prosecuted over the "unlimited" sales pitch for the internet services-
we used to resell Internet plans with a company I was partnered up with some years back, Applied for adsl for a customer who was on the 4km border back then, we had all sorts of trouble @ $99 every time you made an app, cost bit, the customer was denied through our partner (reseller of Helstra services), the guy went direct to bog pond and was granted his DSL services withing 5 days !
HOW RUDE
I wouldn't use Helstra if they were the last evil on this earth!
FYI Keef,
I deal with them in my business as I also install and commission telephone lines (Pabx and PBX's) and data...
How many of you have a WRITTEN APOLOGY AND $800+ CREDIT< as a result of their f ups....
I will boycott them for ever as we do now in our business, reselling everything bar Helstra products and services, or resell from their partners who can resell cheaper then their retail pricing ! How rudes that....But as usual ppl always comment on things they know little about.
Since finding out that all client equipment needs to be compliant to meet the new standards, I went in search of hardware that would allow reliable alarm communications and also had an ADSL2+ modem to maintain the internet connection - all powered by the alarm system.
I found this...
and this...
Two great products - ideal for the job. Now I hear this...
Unbelievable !
It's the only way.
Developer of VoIP2Go at ozvoip.net - Alarm compatible VoIP Network
Telstra considers wholesale ADSL2+, but at what cost?
Telstra considers wholesale ADSL2+, but at what cost?
2008-Jun-11, 10:15 pm
Phil Sweeney
Telstra has shocked ISPs by suggesting it might be willing to offer ADSL2+ to wholesale customers.
The move is surprising, because Telstra denied a significant part of Australia the opportunity to get ADSL2+ speeds for almost three years while it waited for assurances it would not have to wholesale it.
The about-face comes as there is increased pressure on the government to investigate splitting Telstra into retail and wholesale parts before giving it the FTTN deal — something that Telstra is vehemently opposed to. This move could be intended by Telstra to allay fears that it will not play nice when forced to wholesale FTTN ports.
Internode managing director Simon Hackett said that Telstra's recent assurances that it would operate fairly in an FTTN environment constituted empty promises, pointing to Telstra's current decision not to wholesale ADSL2+. "Had Telstra not started this intentional discrimination earlier this year, it might have been hard to argue against their assurances of fairness - but instead, today, their actions speak far, far louder than their words - and show their true colours."
But Hackett welcomed Telstra's decision to investigate wholesale ADSL2+ ports, believing it would open up a number of new customers that can currently only be served by BigPond's ADSL2+ products, even where competitors have installed ADSL2+ equipment. "I call on Telstra to immediately end the discriminatory practice of withholding the ADSL2+ speed from its wholesale market while retailing that service via BigPond exclusively to thousands of RIM-served distribution areas around Australia."
But while Telstra is now looking like the good guy, some ISPs quietly fear that it will not be a straight up offering of ADSL2+ ports. Rather, the pricing could be made unattractive unless ISPs move a significant number of ports to Telstra and away from infrastructure competitors like Optus and iiNet/Powertel.
In early 2004, Telstra was in a similar situation, having just been served with a competition notice by the ACCC for selling its retail BigPond ADSL product for less than the price a basic port was sold to its wholesale customers.
Rather than simply lowering the prices on its existing wholesale products to appease the regulator, Telstra chose to introduce a new separate set of products that allowed ISPs to compete with BigPond's pricing, but with two catches. Firstly, it forced ISPs to offer the same plans as BigPond, which were poor value at the time. Secondly, and most importantly, it dictated that ISPs could only use these new products if it did not purchase any of the existing (raw) wholesale ports. So an ISP could choose to either emulate BigPond and make a meagre profit, or stick with the existing unfair pricing. Ultimately, no notable ISPs took up the offer.
Without knowing the whole story of what Telstra plans to do with ADSL2+ wholesale, it is hard to see whether it will be a good thing for the industry or not. But Hackett remains optimistic, demanding that Telstra immediately offer wholesale ADSL2+ ports "on pricing and access terms no worse than it uses to supply its existing 'Up to 8Mb/s' service to the market".
Links:
* ISPs want ADSL2+ via Telstra Wholesale (Whirlpool, 25 Feb 2008)
* Telstra releases ADSL2+ (Whirlpool, 10 Nov 2006)
* Telstra caves to ACCC pressure (Whirlpool, 1 Apr 2004)
* ISPs react to Telstra's latest offer (Whirlpool, 1 Apr 2004)
Last edited by manicretep; 18-09-08 at 01:25 AM. Reason: to add form the horses mouth
Helstra caught out once again
The news that Telstra has been caught out blocking a competing broadband Internet provider demonstrates that the Howard government has failed to ensure a fair and competitive environment for broadband Internet services, according to opposition Senator for IT Kate Lundy.
According to a report, Telstra rejected an iiNet customer's application for ADSL broadband on the grounds of poor line quality but later accepted the same customer when he applied through BigPond.
“This indicates that the gigantic telco can and does discriminate against competitors such as iiNet in the provision of broadband internet to customers,” Lundy said.
Lundy continued: “This is not the first time my office has heard reports of this occurring and I will be requesting that the ACCC investigate this apparent anti-competitive conduct.
She said unfortunately this incident is another example of how the Coalition has failed to establish an environment that encourages the take-up of broadband [services]. “Customers and competitors have been complaining for a long while about Telstra's tactics in the provision of broadband Internet and I call on the minister to fix the problem,” Lundy said
ACCC to monitor Telstra exchange access
ACCC to monitor Telstra exchange access
2008-Jul-15, 12:45 am
Phil Sweeney
The ACCC will force Telstra to provide ongoing reports about access to Telstra exchange facilities, in response to continued complaints from ISPs.
"A large number of access seekers have complained that Telstra is refusing to provide access to exchanges on the grounds that there is insufficient space", said the ACCC in a statement.
"In addition, access seekers have complained that lengthy delays associated with Telstra's queuing system are preventing them installing equipment in exchanges to provide ADSL2+ services to consumers, in competition with Telstra."
The new "record keeping rule" means that Telstra will have to provide monthly reports on the status of exchanges, including whether they are "capped", the amount of space it has reserved for itself in the exchanges, and information about access queues and which telcos are in them.
But this is not the first time the ACCC has placed such a rule on Telstra. According to an old ACCC statement, it required Telstra to "report to the Commission weekly on the time it processes applications for access to exchanges". The ACCC claimed after a year that it had "significantly improved the situation for Telstra's competitors in obtaining timely access and in rolling out competing services."
Full detail about the new rule can be read here.
Links:
* Media Release (ACCC, 14 Jul 2008)
* ACCC responds to Telstra pricing changes (Whirlpool, 26 Jan 2002)
Telstra to get wholesale voice reprieve
Telstra to get wholesale voice reprieve
2008-Apr-29, 8:15 pm
Phil Sweeney
UPDATED | The ACCC is poised to allow Telstra to stop reselling landline phone services at set rates to competitors in certain areas.
Telstra originally requested exemption from its obligations to wholesale voice services in 371 exchange areas in July last year, as it believed sufficient infrastructure competition existed.
"These obligations date from before Telstra's competitors had their own infrastructure", said Telstra. "Now that our competitors have their own infrastructure in place, this kind of regulation is redundant.
"An exemption means that the prices for these wholesale services will be set through commercial negotiation, not through bureaucratic oversight."
But the ACCC has not given Telstra all it wanted. "The exemptions proposed by the ACCC are not as broad as that requested by Telstra", said the ACCC. "The proposed exemptions cover approximately four million of Telstra's copper lines – over half of Telstra's lines in metropolitan Australia."
The ACCC believes that competitors will instead use Unconditioned Local Loop (ULLS) to offer voice products, with the exchange areas it proposes having "14,000 or more addressable services in operation or four or more ULLS-based competitors (including Telstra)."
The exemption would be granted on the condition that ULLS continues to be available, and would be suspended if an exchange was to become "capped" due to space restraints.
But Telstra competitors attacked the proposal, saying that "a loss of competition, higher prices and poorer services would be the inevitable result". The Competitive Carriers' Coalition said that the ACCC "has produced an illogical, ideologically-driven decision that will give more market power to Telstra, already the most powerful company in any market in Australia."
The CCC specifically complained about Telstra's so-called "blocking" of access to exchanges, and didn't think they would be solved within 12 months. The CCC also said that any new equipment that telcos invest in "will be made obsolete from next year when the Government’s proposed national broadband network is rolled out.
"This means competitors are being forced to either spend money that they will have to write off at a loss, or else withdraw services from some customers. If they don’t, Telstra will simply be able to cut off their access to these customers."
The ACCC is requesting input from the industry on its draft decision, which if finalised would take place over a 12 month transition period.
Links:
* ACCC draft decision (ACCC, 29 Apr 2008)
* Telstra seeks to cut Optus out of ULL (Whirlpool, 18 Dec 2007)
Telstra loses high court battle
Telstra loses high court battle
2008-Mar-6, 10:30 am
Phil Sweeney
UPDATED | The High Court of Australia has ruled against Telstra in its challenge against the Trade Practices Act and the ability for the ACCC to set access prices for its network.
Telstra launched the case in January last year, and was attempting use section 51 (xxxi) of the Australian Constitution, which it says "guarantees just compensation when property is compulsorily acquired". Telstra believed that it was being forced to sell access to its line sharing product (LSS) below its costs.
But all seven High Court Judges disagreed with the fundamentals of Telstra's case, stating that Telstra was privatised after the 1991 Telecommunications Act was put into place. The Act was specifically designed to ensure competitors could gain access to Telstra's network.
"It was not (and could not be) suggested that vesting those assets (and the associated liability to pay for the assets) in Telstra was other than a transfer of the assets to be held and used in accordance with and subject to the then regulatory regime contained in the 1991 Telecommunications Act", said the ruling.
Telstra group general counsel Will Irving said the decision was disappointing. "Our competitors now have little reason to invest in their own networks, knowing instead they can simply resell Telstra services. They can now 'buy' rather than 'build' - a perverse outcome, by any measure," he said.
iiNet's Steve Dalby disagreed, saying "the reality contradicts Telstra's comments". "The industry has been investing millions for years", he told Whirlpool. "This judgement provides the certainty for further investment."
Telstra has been ordered to pay the costs of the case.
Links:
* High Court Judgement (AustLII, 6 Mar 2008)
* Telstra response (Telstra, 6 Mar 2008)
* Telstra challenges regulation in the High Court (Whirlpool, 24 Jan 2007)
ISPs want ADSL2+ via Telstra Wholesale
ISPs want ADSL2+ via Telstra Wholesale
2008-Feb-25, 11:00 am
Phil Sweeney
UPDATE | The group of ISPs has released the full letter to the ACCC, which reveals other participants to be Primus, EFTel, Wideband, Adam, Netspace and "Network Technology". It also explains their arguments in full.
In an unsurprising move, a group of ISPs has gone to the ACCC to demand they be given access to Telstra's newly expanded ADSL2+ network.
The news comes after Telstra announced it would enable 900 extra exchanges with ADSL2+, most of which are not covered by competitors' ADSL2+ networks. At the time, Telstra claimed that it had been given assurances from the federal government that it would not need to wholesale the network if it flicked the switch.
But a group of ISPs, including iiNet, Internode, TSN and Westnet claim that this will cause a "substantial lessening of competition" and will "clearly have an adverse impact on consumers, both in terms of price and the range of services available to them in the long term."
"By excluding competitors from wholesale access to its ADSL2+ services, Telstra can lure customers of other ISPs into two or three-year contracts", they said.
The ISPs have offered a number of reasons why they should be able to purchase ADSL2+ from Telstra, including the high price of backhaul where Telstra is the only provider, exchanges that they claim are declared full prematurely by Telstra, and delays getting access to exchanges.
Links:
* ISP Media Release (Internode, 25 Feb 2008)
* Telstra ADSL2+ at 900 more exchanges (Whirlpool, 6 Feb 2008)
Telstra seeks to cut Optus out of ULL
Telstra seeks to cut Optus out of ULL
2007-Dec-18, 9:15 pm
Phil Sweeney
UPDATED | Telstra is asking the ACCC to block Optus from using the copper network in areas where it has its own cable network.
Telstra claims that Optus has abandoned investment in its cable network and instead prefers to use Telstra's copper infrastructure over Unconditioned Local Loop (ULL).
"SingTel Optus picks the easy homes to connect to its cable network and then cheap rides on the Telstra network for more complex residences like multi-dwelling apartments", said Telstra's Tony Warren.
It has been Optus' policy since launching its cable broadband service to not connect those in apartments and other MDUs (multi dwelling units). Optus says this is because running individual cables into each unit is "uneconomic". However, contrary to Telstra's claim, Optus also has a policy that it will not sell a ULL service to a customer if it can be serviced by its cable network.
But Telstra claims that Optus is avoiding 40% of customers in its cable footprint, while in other countries, the figure is typically 8%.
In a statement, Optus said that Telstra's application had "little chance of approval", believing it is "a desperate last throw of the dice by Telstra to distract the ACCC as it is set to hand down its watershed ruling on ULLS prices." This ruling "will finally open up last mile access to genuine competition", said Optus.
This is the second attempt by Telstra this year to block competitors from its copper network. In July, Telstra made a submission to the ACCC to seek the removal of regulations around its wholesale ADSL service in areas where competitors had installed DSLAMs. This included 371 exchanges and 5.2 million copper lines, all of which it claimed were serviced by at least one other provider than Telstra. The ACCC has yet to respond to that request.
Links:
* Optus to be forced to upgrade its "lazy" cable network (Telstra, 18 Dec 2007)
* Exemption application to reduce regulation in competitive areas (Telstra, 10 Jul 2007)
Eyes open boys, welcome to corporate Australia....
Whirlpool, the best source on telecommunications news
ROFL. Those posts show how experienced Telstra are at industry manipulation. I'll bet the security standards guys were a pushover as all any of them give a crap about is picking up the Securitel scraps.
The result is that Telstra have the much large dialler market by the balls and there's very little anyone can do about it.
Busy VoIP forum too.Whirlpool, the best source on telecommunications news
Developer of VoIP2Go at ozvoip.net - Alarm compatible VoIP Network
One reason we dont have all our eggs in one basket...
oh yeah, there are others Steve,
voip forums etc etc, Lots to be read, glad we're 3 yrs into it all..
amazing when you just sit, relax and read..
A word springs to mind
(Helstra)=Anti Competitive,
competition is good for business..................
Ok, well thanks for posting all that useless information.
This thread is about the new standards... by the way the Telstra GPRS Network is compliant to the standards
FYI..
Have u tested any of those products, or just a bit of google research ?
Just a bit of research for now until I decide if I should put up a fight and go for standards approval. If I can get support from a small number of bureaus and Monitoring Centres that disagree as strongly as I do about how the class 1&2 standards have been hijacked by the big two bully boys, then I will probably push ahead without approval.
The great thing about Linksys/Cisco is that the firmware is almost identical throughout all their VoIP equipment, whether it be a single line ATA or an 8 line IP PBX. The products in the links already have the usual safety certifications, so I know they will work just as smoothly as the SPA3102's we use now.
Developer of VoIP2Go at ozvoip.net - Alarm compatible VoIP Network
Keef - we are over the whole GPRS hype !
My belief is that there are only approx 5,000 Securitel systems installed in Oz. Currently, Telstra, Optus, Suretek, IR, Permaconn and god knows who else is fighting over them. Who in their right mind would want to get involved in that scrap ?
From the people I've spoken to, it's estimated that there are between 750,000 to 1 million diallers monitored over the PSTN network. Just like Securitel, the PSTN network is going away - despite Telstra's bully boy attempts to stop it.
The important question is this...
Why do 750K+ homes and businesses have a dialler when only 5K businesses have Securitel ?
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$'s
I don't know if you've heard, but things ain't getting any easier for families and small businesses. Your alarm or monitoring business included !
The 750K+ monitored diallers have to upgrade to DSL or GPRS soon and as a bureau, you have two choices...
1. Put the standards first and offer your customers an upgrade using a Telstra or Optus solution.
2. Put your business first and choose from a wide range of other DSL based solutions.
If you go for option 1 - good luck asking for $300+ for the upgrade kitand prepare yourself for some customer attrition when you tell them how much EXTRA it costs each month.
Developer of VoIP2Go at ozvoip.net - Alarm compatible VoIP Network
useless to you because
..
wait for it
..
your
ignorant, just like the millions of helstra customers out there, (to stubborn to change, why do you think optus was so successful, it tookt he customers who were smart enough to move).
I read a remark from boss here somewhere aimed @ Ip alarms, something about being rammed in the rectrum, well, anyone who uses helstra is and has been for yrs, HOW true is that.
Useless to you kee82, because your a company man, and you don't get to make decisions? maybe or am I wrong? for your information, I left the big c about 10 yrs ago, (they took over our franchisor), I left because they screw everyone and every thing they touch, so your just learning mate, its only time.
and yes were all over the GPRS hype, I.R were the smart ones going with multi path and not putting all eggs in one basket, then the rest caught on...
I do recall a certain GPRS product being offline for 4 hrs because a helstra tech removed the wrong cable at 12pm at night, supposedly in the xchange.(that is whats on the report from the cms operator). errr. yeah, the client was just moving in and didn't have pstn on, so they had "nothing" !!!!
Don't believe all your TOLD Keef, make some informed decisions yourself after reviewing and testing products yourself Keef,(not just a week, try every product, put them all in, not just one of each 10 of each, then you can honestly guage from EXPERIENCE) also Id highly suggest you do some googling, google is your best friend, Homework I call it.
Oh and I don't see how this information is untrue, its actual fact go check the court history mate, and FROM experience, My partner in the office has adsl2+ with Helstra and well its meant to be a 22meg connection, he only gets 10meg if he's lucky and our office is ONLY 2.3kms from main x'change in town...even swapped modems and picked up a lil more, but well its ONLY A BEST EFFORT product that they charge the EARTH for..
Hows that YOU don't get what YOU pay for bud... Nice way to treat customers.
Sorry for steering off topic guys, it is important you see the BIG picture, not some clouded one!....
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