Why I am Voting NO

[enf]

...................and even a reasonable percentage of Yes voters now wish they had voted No adding to that.

Absolutely, I know several.....

[Sektor]

I could sit here all day replying after reading some of the very obvious fake/false/misleading/outright garbage. I'll leave it to others to add more.

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[DB44]

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Not automatically, of course. But the UK and Canadian experience certainly indicates that we will be moving in that direction. For example:



And of course you could still read the Spectator article and other examples in these threads which you seem to lite to pretend do not exist.

@enf. Interestingly enough, we could easily have had a referendum on the issue. For example, a referendum to insert a definition of marriage into the constitution. After some comments made by the High Court obiter (that is, not part of the actual decision and therefore not binding) it can certainly be argued that this is not necessary, but it could have been done nevertheless. Of course, it would have had no chance of getting up, unless you actually believed the ridiculous percentages allegedly in favour claimed by SSM activists at different times. On the other hand, it would have dealt with some of the more far-fetched slippery slope arguments like more than 2 couples or animals, as such would then require a referendum to amend the new definition. Also, to get a referendum passed if it did happen would be an overwhelming endorsement from the Australian people. Had support in fact been 80% plus as claimed it was potentially achievable. However, the confidence in those figures by the activists was demonstrated by the hysterical reaction to avoid any public vote, and now the bullying tactics applied in a postal vote which is better than nothing but unlikely to result in a true endorsement to either side.

[johnhoward]

Your a gluten for punishment old chap . lol

[enf]

Not automatically, of course. But the UK and Canadian experience certainly indicates that we will be moving in that direction. For example:



And of course you could still read the Spectator article and other examples in these threads which you seem to lite to pretend do not exist.

@enf. Interestingly enough, we could easily have had a referendum on the issue. For example, a referendum to insert a definition of marriage into the constitution. After some comments made by the High Court obiter (that is, not part of the actual decision and therefore not binding) it can certainly be argued that this is not necessary, but it could have been done nevertheless. Of course, it would have had no chance of getting up, unless you actually believed the ridiculous percentages allegedly in favour claimed by SSM activists at different times. On the other hand, it would have dealt with some of the more far-fetched slippery slope arguments like more than 2 couples or animals, as such would then require a referendum to amend the new definition. Also, to get a referendum passed if it did happen would be an overwhelming endorsement from the Australian people. Had support in fact been 80% plus as claimed it was potentially achievable. However, the confidence in those figures by the activists was demonstrated by the hysterical reaction to avoid any public vote, and now the bullying tactics applied in a postal vote which is better than nothing but unlikely to result in a true endorsement to either side.

There are too many hurdles.....

It's simple. Every candidate declares before the next federal election how they will vote. Those elected present their legislation....debate, a few things get changed, vote, done.

Trouble is they are sh*t scared of the people as I've said before....until we are prepared to MAKE them consult, we deserve all that apathy begets...

[enf]

More tolerance....

[bazzy]

I could sit here all day replying after reading some of the very obvious fake/false/misleading/outright garbage. I'll leave it to others to add more.

its very interesting admin that you failed to address the point i bring up that duplicating the legislation and calling it something else would result in the very same issue we have here now in other countries. it would simply invert the issue.

the reality is you haven't responded because you cant respond knowing it is a giant hole in your argument. but thats just fine. i am not here to convince you nor do i really care about your opinion.

i am also noticing a lot of disdain towards yes voters in these two threads, members have even gone so far as to call them ignorant for voting that way. I have respect for no voters but this is a very common theme i am seeing here. people are calling yes voters out for voting yes and that in itself is a bullying tactic.

As for the other user who pointed out that the census is confidential bla bla bla. It is confidential if i am in the privacy of my own home however at the time of the last census i was at my parents place who at the time i was not out to, so i get the feeling they would have noticed if i ticked that box mate. perhaps you should think of using your brain before commenting like that using an assumption that you bring to the table.

[lsemmens]

I would have thought that any homosexual who actively hides the fact, feel shame in their condition. If I were to accept who I was, I would certainly not hide the fact, nor would I stand on a street corner and paint on a big billboard, "Hey, look at me, I'm 'different'". There are elements of both sides of the campaign that are winning no favours from either side. Everyone should be free to hold, and voice an opinion without fear of attack, and/or retribution from an opposing view. Typically, sadly, the 'yes' campaign has been very intolerant of the no POV and, has doe itself no favours accordingly.

I am pleased to see intelligent debate occurring here with little of the invective that seems to be the norm elsewhere.

[Sektor]

More tolerance....

I guess vandals still haven't figured out that their actions likely have the opposite effect to their intention. Whatever their intention, we shouldn't judge everyone based on the actions of a few.

[enf]

I guess vandals still haven't figured out that their actions likely have the opposite effect to their intention. Whatever their intention, we shouldn't judge everyone based on the actions of a few.

Indeed, but were those examples of someone screaming for equality and tolerance? I think not.

[Sektor]

Indeed, but were those examples of someone screaming for equality and tolerance? I think not.

If you asked them, I wouldn't be surprised if some no vandals said they supported equality, they just have a very different definition of that word.

There's still the hypocrisy of many no voters wanting less government regulation except when it comes to marriage.

There's also the Catholic archbishop of Sydney who unintentionally made an argument in support of same sex marriage:

“keep out of the friendship business and out of the bedroom”.

“The state has no business telling us who we should love and how, sexually or otherwise,”

[bazzy]

I would have thought that any homosexual who actively hides the fact, feel shame in their condition. If I were to accept who I was, I would certainly not hide the fact, nor would I stand on a street corner and paint on a big billboard,

its not that black and white. Its not shame that we feel but rather a fear of rejection from friends and family. for example I was brought up in a conservative christian family who where very outspoken about gay people. I had real fear that if i they found out they would kick me out of home and cut me off from the family.

When i found myself ready to tell my family i was ready and expecting to be cut off from the family as a result. one of my sisters has since cut me off on Facebook (i have not tried to dig into if the reasoning is because of this however i highly suspect it is).

there are also people who will not accept having gay friends either, it is largely this that causes gay people to not want to come out regarding there sexuality. it is very difficult in every instance because you don't know what people are going to say.

and the majority of gay people are indistinguishable from heterosexuals in day to day life, and in these cases see no need to expose themselves to that kind of potential rejection and hatred when the are capable of "blending in" with the crowd. I for example could have remained "in the closet" about it. this however in my experience causes a huge emotional burden and given my age it was starting to raise questions as to why i was still single given my age.

I decided to risk it and come out to my parents. despite what has happened i am still glad i did.

I will also note that i am also in a way exposing myself by putting this out there as i do have friends who are on this forum, so it will be very interesting to see what happens when they come across these posts.

[enf]

If you asked them, I wouldn't be surprised if some no vandals said they supported equality, they just have a very different definition of that word.

You wouldn't be surprised? But you don't KNOW do you...

There's still the hypocrisy of many no voters wanting less government regulation except when it comes to marriage.

Huh? Which no voters and what regulation?

There's also the Catholic archbishop of Sydney who unintentionally made an argument in support of same sex marriage:

“keep out of the friendship business and out of the bedroom”.

“The state has no business telling us who we should love and how, sexually or otherwise,”

Saw that. Not an argument FOR 'yes' at all....just for the status quo I thought...poor wording of a position is hardly an argument.

[bazzy]

Indeed, but were those examples of someone screaming for equality and tolerance? I think not.

I see. so in other words only the yes side should be held accountable for rogue individuals who believe in their cause? you do realize that is how your comment can be interpreted.

[Rick]

its not that black and white. Its not shame that we feel but rather a fear of rejection from friends and family. for example I was brought up in a conservative christian family who where very outspoken about gay people. I had real fear that if i they found out they would kick me out of home and cut me off from the family.

When i found myself ready to tell my family i was ready and expecting to be cut off from the family as a result. one of my sisters has since cut me off on Facebook (i have not tried to dig into if the reasoning is because of this however i highly suspect it is).

there are also people who will not accept having gay friends either, it is largely this that causes gay people to not want to come out regarding there sexuality. it is very difficult in every instance because you don't know what people are going to say.

and the majority of gay people are indistinguishable from heterosexuals in day to day life, and in these cases see no need to expose themselves to that kind of potential rejection and hatred when the are capable of "blending in" with the crowd. I for example could have remained "in the closet" about it. this however in my experience causes a huge emotional burden and given my age it was starting to raise questions as to why i was still single given my age.

I decided to risk it and come out to my parents. despite what has happened i am still glad i did.

I will also note that i am also in a way exposing myself by putting this out there as i do have friends who are on this forum, so it will be very interesting to see what happens when they come across these posts.

Ive been reading several of your posts, but this one really stands out, being gay doesn't make you different, people are individuals regardless of what they are, personally those who are gay and fail to come out and be honest with themselves and the people that are around them, are the ones who need help!, and this kind of help only comes from being honest with yourself.
I have several male friends who are gay, do I treat them any different? hell no, everytime we catch up for drinks or BBQ's I dont give a thought they are gay, they are good friends and ive never looked or treated them any differently.

[lsemmens]

If any of your friends chooses to ostracise you for being "different", they do not deserve your friendship. FWIW I am strongly opposed to Homosexuality as one of the tenets of my faith. That said, I also accept that there are those who do not agree with that standpoint. I was actually preaching a sermon on sin a couple of weeks back, and, according to our tenets, homosexuality is a sin, no more, or less, than, lying, stealing, or murder. If a thief came into our church we would still accept him and love him, just like anyone else. Would we put him in charge of our finances, hell no! Not until he has repented and turned away from his sin. My point being, you should not be denied friendship based upon your lifestyle choices. If I, as a staunch Christian and anti gay campaigner (not that I am - BTW) choose to join a gay club, I should be within my rights to do so, however, if I wish to stand for any position of control in said club, the club should be well within its rights to deny my application without fear of recrimination. The reverse holds true, any organisation, typically church run, should not discriminate upon its membership for any reason. They should be allowed to discriminate, however, when selecting roles of leadership. You get my drift.

[B52]

My point being, you should not be denied friendship based upon your lifestyle choices. If I, as a staunch Christian and anti gay campaigner (not that I am - BTW) choose to join a gay club, I should be within my rights to do so, however,.

Religion aside.. So many here and elsewhere mention "lifestyle choice" is completely wrong and has nothing to do with being gay. Becoming a vegetarian, taking up smoking, becoming a Buddhist or joining the Taliban (David Hicks) is a "lifestyle choice" Homosexuals and Transgender are born that way its in their genome.

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Despite the fact that homosexuality is legal some gay's wont come out because of religious and cultural pressures. This is a matter for them and a yes outcome won't make any difference for them. Leave the marriage institution for the Heterosexuals. Those in SS relationship can register themselves and have the same legal rights as married heterosexuals. I object to SS couples being allowed to adopt and bring up kids is a violation of the very basic fundamentals of human ethics. The thought of SS couples in an intimate act whilst kids are in the next room is disgusting not to mention the bulling at school which these kids have to deal with once it become known that they have 2 daddies.

[lsemmens]

Actually, they have yet to prove that homosexuality is anything but a lifestyle choice. There are certain markers that may indicate a propensity to certain behaviours, but nothing, as yet, has been found to say from birth that you will be homosexual. True genetic conditions can be determined in utero and, in some cases, treated accordingly. Alcoholism is also a lifestyle choice although there are some for whom alcohol will always be a problem and have chosen to forgo it's "pleasures", A.A., anyone?

[B52]

" Same Sex Marriage betting is not currently available "

Any betting sites where you can place a bet ?

[DB44]

" Same Sex Marriage betting is not currently available "

Any betting sites where you can place a bet ?

After Trump and Brexit, I don't blame Sportsbet for not wanting to touch it. I suspect they are not the only ones.