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Thread: NESS or Bosch for DIY home alarms ?

  1. #21
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    OK... you referred to "Running cable inside a roof cavity will need a licenced cabler" so yes, on that basis I did assume there was some element of that involved.

    Yes, there are some restrictions in the rules/standard. Any hard-wired installation requires the installer to be a licensed cabler.

    If for example, you connected some sensors (or cameras) with off-the-shelf pre-terminated cables and you attached those cables to a surface (wall, floor, ceiling, etc) they become, by definition, 'fixed'.

    The same applies if you pass a cable through a wall, cabinet, frame, ceiling, wall, under carpet, etc... and part of it is concealed, then it too is considered by the rules to be 'fixed'.

    In the case of a fully-wireless alarm... if it connects to, or may at any time in the future, connect to a telecommunication carrier's network (monitored alarm, dialler, etc) it is required to be installed by a licensed cabler, as there are still segregation distances within the rules that must be complied with... eg: mandatory separation distances from other services... power, gas, water, other cabling, etc.

    I don't make, or enforce the rules... I'm just required to adhere to them.

    Just giving you a heads-up on what's involved.

    It's worth noting that insurance companies love to find ways out of paying claims and if there's a fire for example and investigators find an alarm system installed without a Telecommunications Cabling Advice signed off by a licensed installer, they 'may' consider it to be a contributing factor... especially if segregation requirements haven't been met.

    It's no different to DIY electrical work in that regard.

    Quote Originally Posted by ACMA
    If you are an unregistered cabler who is not properly supervised or if the work you perform does not comply with the Wiring Rules you have committed a criminal offence and you could face an on-the-spot fine of $2,040. The fine can be up to $90,000 if court action is taken.


    If it's a completely wireless system, not connected to, or not capable of connecting to a carrier's network and all components are mounted clear of all other services (including those which may be concealed, etc) then, it's probably fine.



  • #22
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    I think your definition of fixed cabling is different to what the cabling rules mean. Fixed cabling would be the keypad and sirens, no matter what sensors you are using.

    You will find that some time ago wholesalers did sell direct. Ness did at one point.

    However tech support is not intended to explain why things work ie sleep settings on wireless PIR's etc.

    The key here is that all cables need to be run by a registered cabler (not licensed cabler) and the appropriate forms completed to ensure that it is done accordance to the wiring rules. Just like an electrician needs to do a safety certificate.

    Wholesalers sell equipment at wholesale prices to people who have accounts. Usually this involves buying a set amount of product or dollars each month.
    Last edited by xr5adam; 29-12-17 at 12:24 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xr5adam View Post
    I think your definition of fixed cabling is different to what the cabling rules mean. Fixed cabling would be the keypad and sirens, no matter what sensors you are using.
    Fixed cabling would certainly 'include' cabling to keypads and sirens and wired sensors, but can include all cabling under the following.

    Quote Originally Posted by AS/ACIF S009
    This Standard applies to the installation and maintenance of fixed or
    concealed cabling or equipment that is connected, or is intended
    to be connected, to a telecommunications network, including any
    cord or cordage, or that part of any cord or cordage, that is
    connected as fixed or concealed cabling.
    Bolding is mine for emphasis.

    I actually had an ACMA inspector explain to me the meaning of concealed in the wiring context, which was the same as most dictionaries deem it to be.

    Eg: to prevent something from being seen, to hide; withdraw or remove from observation; cover or keep from sight.

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    Okay, looks pretty clear to me now that almost ANY home alarm system is required by Australian law to be installed by a registered/licenced installer/cabler.
    The "problem" for a DIYer is the cabling that is inevitably required rather than the alarm components - hence a registered cabler is almost always required.

    If I understand correctly the ONLY exception is where two conditions are met:
    (1) no cabling between alarm components exists (pretty rare). In other words all components, including keypads, must communicate with each other via wireless. And
    (2) no components will be or have the ability to be connected to Telstra/Optus/Vodafone/other carrier's networks. That's assuming "connected" includes the mobile telephone network and does not just mean using the landline.

    Given that any alarm system I would want must be able to notify me via the mobile telephone network when an alarm is triggered it means condition (2) above is not met and I'm stuck with finding an alarm installer.

    Can anyone fault my logic ?
    Last edited by gregg; 31-12-17 at 12:16 AM.

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    on ebay you can buy entire alarm systems and any modules you want to add to it. Sellers can even send it pre wired and programmed so it's easier for DIY people with no knowledge at all. I got full wireless bosch alarm with 6 wireless pir (2 are tri tech) and 3 hard-wired ones, backup battery, remote key fobs and receiver for $1200 from different sellers. I got USB adapter and free bosch software for it and can monitor and set it up, program everything and view it remotely from my laptop. That's a "$3000" system. IP module is next (remote operation and monitoring- including displaying garage door reed open/closed state and closing it) ALL setup info is available on this website and others. Cheap third party manufactured GSM diallers etc can be plugged in. There's no need to even consider a security installer unless you dont have a weekend to set it up IMO. No need for electrician unless you need a power point wired up to plug it in. No need for a licenced 'cabler' because most systems have modules that plug in and take a SIM card or connect to your wifi and connect with an app. My alarm came with a phone cable. Program a phone number and it will ring it and sound an alarm when it goes off.
    Last edited by motion; 31-12-17 at 04:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregg View Post
    Okay, looks pretty clear to me now that almost ANY home alarm system is required by Australian law to be installed by a registered/licenced installer/cabler.
    The "problem" for a DIYer is the cabling that is inevitably required rather than the alarm components - hence a registered cabler is almost always required.

    If I understand correctly the ONLY exception is where two conditions are met:
    (1) no cabling between alarm components exists (pretty rare). In other words all components, including keypads, must communicate with each other via wireless. And
    (2) no components will be or have the ability to be connected to Telstra/Optus/Vodafone/other carrier's networks. That's assuming "connected" includes the mobile telephone network and does not just mean using the landline.

    Given that any alarm system I would want must be able to notify me via the mobile telephone network when an alarm is triggered it means condition (2) above is not met and I'm stuck with finding an alarm installer.

    Can anyone fault my logic ?
    That's pretty much the case.

    An example of connecting to a carrier, whilst not related to alarms... even a one-way Foxtel satellite satellite dish is required to have its coax installed by a licensed cabler, as it connects to a carrier... wirelessly.

    As I've said. it's entirely up to you how to proceed.

    Not being judgmental... just making you aware of rules/regulations etc.

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    A totally wireless system is still an option so has anyone got a recommendation for a brand (Paradox maybe?) and an Australian retailer ?

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    bosch 3000 DIY kit from ebay, with wireless PIR. Comes with remote key fobs with extra buttons for garage door operation. I know a guy that has some wireless bosch PIR for $80 brand new (I bought like 8 off him). Buy a $60 usb adapter and download the A-link software 4.12 (free) and i can send you a fully set up file you can upload to the panel. I have wireless PIR all set up, wireless reeds to notify if door is open or closed etc, wireless internet connectivity for use with the bosch app and remote arming and notifications. Everything. No installer necessary, I didn't know anything and a weekend i have all that set up, it's that easy.
    Last edited by motion; 31-12-17 at 09:35 PM.

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    Most people here don't care wether you go down the route of purchasing an alarm and then self installation of that equipment. It's no skin off my nose if you get it to work or it turns out to be a dismall failure or if you break various regulations doing so as It doesn't effect me directly. I will sugest that you bear in mind that if something happens that involves you needing to deal with an insurance company for any reason then you can most proberley kiss goodbye any coverage that you thought you might of had. They will demand all documentation of purchase, installation, licence numbers of the installer, routine maintenance documents, quotes so there was no under coverage of your premises. If you have not meet their standards regarding coverage or any special conditions that they may of imposed upon you for your coverage to be accepted etc you will find out what a failed claim is all about. Just something to bear in mind as you think of going down this path. Good luck with which ever way you head.

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    An insurer asks if an alarm is FITTED and MONITORED during a quote, not whether it was installed by a licenced installer NOR do they request, ever, proof of alarm function unless a claim is made either partially or wholly (up to and including PIR with flat batteries etc) which is BTW recommended at WEEKLY intervals (according to manufacture specifications). They would ask for WEEKLY reports which is not practical. Same as fitting an aftermarket GPS tracker to your car to lower it's premium, they expect GPS to function to ensure its recovery and avoid a payout. They don't care if a 12 year old fitted it. A company like RAC insurance (who pay out 98% or claims) are not going to destroy thier reputation for not paying out someone who was burgled because they couldn't prove the alarm was installed by a licenced contractor. Further, buying a used home with an alarm fitted - I would never expect the owner of the residence (who may have had the alarm for 10 years) to provide that documentation and it does NOT void your insurance policy nor is anything on the matter mentioned in any PDS I have looked at - in fact I could barely find what they define as MONITORED alarm - Which btw any mobile notification (txt, call or push) due to an alarm will meet that standard of "monitored". Install away

    Unless it burns down your house because you hard wired it into your power.

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