Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: How to join very thin wires (Futuro Series 4)

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    14
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Reputation
    50

    Default How to join very thin wires (Futuro Series 4)

    Hi all

    So I bought the Futuro Series 4 [] video intercom system. Was hoping it would be a straight cable plug in, but turned out to be more complicated. Further to my earlier post [, the power is the easy bit.

    It has a multiple thin wire connector (see picture). So somehow I need to join these wires to the wires of an alarm cable and RG59 coaxial.

    So I'm looking for some suggestions on how to do this and still get the connector through a cavity wall. There are nine wires to join on the main wall unit (five to the camera, four to the sub monitor). I've looked at 'Jellybeans' but nine of them seem way too large to get through a reasonable hole in the wall. Can you solder such small wires and cover with a tiny heatshrink?

    I've used a solder before, but have admit not for such a small application.

    I've tried to get a few cablers in, but they don't seem interested. It's not connected to the telecommunications so I don't need a licence to do.

    Thanks for any help



Look Here ->
  • #2
    Administrator
    mtv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    19,893
    Thanks
    7,508
    Thanked 15,066 Times in 6,761 Posts
    Rep Power
    5647
    Reputation
    239305

    Default

    Solder & heatshrink.... possibly scotchlok connectors, but soldering is guaranteed.

    For RG59 coax... use crimped/compression F type connectors with a barrel joiner.

    EDIT: Looking at the manual, it appears the coax has to attach to the flying leads... not to a coax connector. (Extremely poor design)

    In that case, you will need to solder the cables. The coax used will need to have a copper braid.

    EDIT:2 Actually, a better solution would be to solder on an F type chassis socket, then use F type connectors on the coax, which would enable the more-common aluminium shield coax to be used.

    Last edited by mtv; 28-01-18 at 01:29 PM. Reason: added info

  • The Following User Says Thank You to mtv For This Useful Post:

    Voltaire (28-01-18)

  • #3
    Crazy Diamond
    Tiny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Tasmania
    Age
    64
    Posts
    6,391
    Thanks
    10,996
    Thanked 5,436 Times in 2,651 Posts
    Rep Power
    2156
    Reputation
    89057

    Default

    Tip; for soldering those little wires, make sure you have a freshly cleaned & tinned soldering iron tip, then tin each wire individually before joining them.
    You may already know this, though I'm surprised by how many hobbyists that don't.

    Edit: BTW, this applies to large gauge wires too, though it gets very important with the small wires.
    Last edited by Tiny; 28-01-18 at 01:15 PM.
    Cheers, Tiny
    "You can lead a person to knowledge, but you can't make them think? If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
    The information is out there; you just have to let it in."

  • The Following User Says Thank You to Tiny For This Useful Post:

    Voltaire (28-01-18)

  • #4
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    14
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Reputation
    50

    Default

    Thank for suggestions, including re tinning.

    Starting with the main monitor wouldn't be so bad, as I can do it on a workbench and feed the cables up through the wall. But soldering the wires for the second monitor will need to be done basically standing up (unless I leave lots of slack in the roof). And the cables to the door camera will have to pass through a brick wall.

    I'll practice the soldering a bit on similar cables first.

    I wouldn't have bought this type of video intercom if I had known it wasn't a straight plug in (or even crimp). The Bunnings demo on Youtube (presumably a simpler model / different brand) was just an alarm cable straight plug in. Live and learn.

    Cheers

  • #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    391
    Thanks
    27
    Thanked 98 Times in 72 Posts
    Rep Power
    242
    Reputation
    1584

    Default

    Another thing I was always taught was make sure you use heat shrink and it overlaps the insulation 2 times the length of what you removed... So if you removed 1cm for the soldered joint, you would need 5cm of heat shrink. That way, where the rigid soldered joint ends (usually 2-5mm back inside the original insulation)and the original flexible cable resumes there is not such and zone that tends to bend and break.

    PS. That's not a thin wire - who remembers soldering antenna ferrite coils for their crystal radio!
    Last edited by Gitch; 30-01-18 at 05:57 PM.

  • The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Gitch For This Useful Post:

    tristen (30-01-18),Voltaire (01-03-18)

  • #6
    Administrator
    mtv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    19,893
    Thanks
    7,508
    Thanked 15,066 Times in 6,761 Posts
    Rep Power
    5647
    Reputation
    239305

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gitch View Post
    PS. That's not a thin wire - who remembers soldering antenna ferrite coils for their crystal radio!
    Agreed... not thin at all, but I guess it depends what you are comparing it to.... such as ferrite coil wire... or newer headphone and USB cables, etc.

    The wires in the OP's panel are actually very easy to work with/solder.

  • #7
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    62
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
    Rep Power
    99
    Reputation
    110

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mtv View Post
    Agreed... not thin at all, but I guess it depends what you are comparing it to.... such as ferrite coil wire... or newer headphone and USB cables, etc.

    The wires in the OP's panel are actually very easy to work with/solder.
    Those futuro are the worse intercom to exist, that and the ones with the push in style connectors which only take a small cable. the ones with small fly leads supplied or terminal blocks are the best.

    Having done many before its often hard to push the cabling back into the cavity and fit the monitor on the wall.

  • #8
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    14
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Reputation
    50

    Default

    Hi all. I'm still practicing. Yeah I know, complete noob! And they are thin to me, but appreciate that is relative. I've got tinning and joining the cables ok with a reasonably clean solder join. But one question, ...

    Quote Originally Posted by mtv View Post
    In that case, you will need to solder the cables. The coax used will need to have a copper braid.

    EDIT:2 Actually, a better solution would be to solder on an F type chassis socket, then use F type connectors on the coax, which would enable the more-common aluminium shield coax to be used.

    I see what you mean by cooper vs aluminium braid / shield. Where do you join the fly lead for ground to on the F-type chassis socket?

  • The Following User Says Thank You to Voltaire For This Useful Post:

    xapi (04-03-18)

  • #9
    Administrator
    mtv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    19,893
    Thanks
    7,508
    Thanked 15,066 Times in 6,761 Posts
    Rep Power
    5647
    Reputation
    239305

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Voltaire View Post
    Where do you join the fly lead for ground to on the F-type chassis socket?
    Onto a solder lug.... or clamp it under the nut, but soldering is best.

    This one shows a BNC connector, but the same applies to an F type.



    You can make a lug from any solderable metal (copper is best).

  • The Following User Says Thank You to mtv For This Useful Post:

    Voltaire (01-03-18)

  • #10
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    14
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Reputation
    50

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mtv View Post
    Onto a solder lug.... or clamp it under the nut, but soldering is best.

    This one shows a BNC connector, but the same applies to an F type.
    Aah. I saw some lugs in images, but this one didn't come it. Thanks.

  • #11
    Administrator
    mtv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    19,893
    Thanks
    7,508
    Thanked 15,066 Times in 6,761 Posts
    Rep Power
    5647
    Reputation
    239305

    Default

    Coincidentally, I was looking at a video intercom the other day and it is designed to operate over a 4-wire cable, not coax.

    I am now wondering if your product is similar.

  • #12
    Premium Member
    Al Bundy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Tazzie
    Posts
    4,480
    Thanks
    2,005
    Thanked 5,194 Times in 1,906 Posts
    Rep Power
    2204
    Reputation
    92870

    Default

    I know your tails aren't long but try and stagger the soldered joints so they aren't all side by side, and would suggest a second layer of slightly larger heat shrink over all of them when they are done.
    Cheers
    Ted (Al)

  • The Following User Says Thank You to Al Bundy For This Useful Post:

    Voltaire (01-03-18)

  • #13
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    14
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Reputation
    50

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mtv View Post
    Coincidentally, I was looking at a video intercom the other day and it is designed to operate over a 4-wire cable, not coax.

    I am now wondering if your product is similar.
    Not sure if it's the same, but Bunnings have a how to instal "video door phone", Orion brand, which seems to use a four-wire alarm cable, with terminal nice plugs (). That looks much easier than this Futuro, which requires six wires going from main monitor to front camera. The specs recommend using 4 of 14/020 shielded and RG-59/U coaxial. So that's what I've got. I was curious if I could get away with 6 wire cable (or 6/8 wire), but as a newbie I'm not game.

    Quote Originally Posted by mtv View Post
    Onto a solder lug.... or clamp it under the nut, but soldering is best.

    This one shows a BNC connector, but the same applies to an F type.



    You can make a lug from any solderable metal (copper is best).
    Thanks again. Neither my local Jaycar, Repco, Auto One, or an auto sound place nearby had the right sized solder lugs (or any at all for that matter). So am putting project on hold until I can secure online. Appreciate you said I could make one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Al Bundy View Post
    I know your tails aren't long but try and stagger the soldered joints so they aren't all side by side ...
    Not sure how I can do that with the fly wire leads all the same length. Unless you're proposing I snip the fly leads to different lengths? I can see an advantage in staggering as it would reduce the overall thickness of the package, which becomes a real issue at the front camera with only a 10mm hole going through the brick wall - particularly with adding the coaxial connector into the mix. That Bunnings model is looking more attractive all the time!

    Quote Originally Posted by Al Bundy View Post
    ... and would suggest a second layer of slightly larger heat shrink over all of them when they are done.
    Yep, thanks. I have a range of heatshrink ready for that, including tiny 3mm for the wires.

  • #14
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    14
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Reputation
    50

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight1982 View Post
    Those futuro are the worse intercom to exist, that and the ones with the push in style connectors which only take a small cable. the ones with small fly leads supplied or terminal blocks are the best.

    Having done many before its often hard to push the cabling back into the cavity and fit the monitor on the wall.
    I agree with the sentiment of the post, but this Futuro has small fly leads supplied - that's what make it challenging, particularly as it involves joining a coaxial cable. If it had terminal blocks that would be much easier.

  • #15
    Administrator
    mtv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    19,893
    Thanks
    7,508
    Thanked 15,066 Times in 6,761 Posts
    Rep Power
    5647
    Reputation
    239305

    Default

    Solder lug.... Just solder a loop of wire and clamp it under the nut.

    If your unit specifies using coax, then you need to use coax.

  • The Following User Says Thank You to mtv For This Useful Post:

    tristen (02-03-18)

  • #16
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    14
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Reputation
    50

    Default

    Hi all. Thanks for suggestions so far - really appreciated. I obtained a solder lug using the 9.5mm one on the BNC connector referred to above (easier than MacGyvering).

    Have done the first set of connections. Tinned ends first and (mildly) staggered. The solder connections are reasonably firm and have tested over the 30m cable run with multimeter and connections are fine, no cross-connections detected.







    Question: Should I cover the whole package (including F connector) with heatshrink? I can still run one along the 30m cable or even past the terminal block depending on size.

    Next step will be the other end which is through a brick wall to the camera.
    Last edited by Voltaire; 02-03-18 at 01:13 PM. Reason: Correct statement.

  • #17
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    14
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Reputation
    50

    Default

    And here's the other end.



    This has small clip in terminals for the five wires (including coax core and ground). Seems two ways to connect the coax:

    1) straight in as per my test above; or
    2) terminating the coax before the brick wall and using the F type connectors to run a short two wire run through the brick wall.

    I'll go with the latter as the ground connection to the terminal seems messy and prone to problems.

  • #18
    Administrator
    mtv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    19,893
    Thanks
    7,508
    Thanked 15,066 Times in 6,761 Posts
    Rep Power
    5647
    Reputation
    239305

    Default

    You can cover the whole F connector join if you want to, but first, fit some heatshrink over the F connector terminals.

    (Would have been best to put a bit of h/shrink over the wires before you soldered them onto the connector)

    The coax on the terminal block will be OK, just strip a bit more back and again... put some heatshrink over both conductors, leaving just enough wire exposed to fit into the terminals and a bit of larger heatshrink over where the screen and centre conductor are separated.

  • The Following User Says Thank You to mtv For This Useful Post:

    Voltaire (03-03-18)

  • #19
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    14
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Reputation
    50

    Default

    Got the main monitor working. I mixed a wire up connecting at the end which required some diagnostics to find. I also used an F type connector at the end as the aluminium coax shield was too difficult to secure to the small terminal.

    Thanks very much for all your help, particularly re using the F type connector.

    Now on to the second monitor ...

  • The Following User Says Thank You to Voltaire For This Useful Post:

    xapi (04-03-18)

  • Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •