Ask an American 'Gun Nut' anything, aka does the rest of the world understand us?

[Skepticist]

Well that shows how flexible that law actually is with virtually anything past, present or future capable of being defined as 'dangerous' when used in particular ways. You're OK if it's on non-public property though but I'm sure there are other rules to cover that circumstance in the event of anyone suffering harm as a result of your actions.

[lsemmens]

In the short term all that will happen is that the guns of "suspect people" will go underground. It will take several generations to remove "weapons of warfare" (i.e. anything above a .22) from the general populace, and, even then, it is unlikely to find every weapon. Your statistics may, or may not be accurate, given the fact that there are Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics, however, the chances of being shot for annoying a neighbour with your "loud" lawnmower is far greater in the USofA than in most other "civilised" (and I use that word advisedly) countries.

[Thala Dan]

.......however, the chances of being shot for annoying a neighbour with your "loud" lawnmower is far greater in the USofA than in most other "civilised" (and I use that word advisedly) countries.

Yeah.......'cause we're much more innovative than that


Sunbury woman who killed neighbour with kitchen knife found not guilty of murder due to mental health



Sydney man guilty of murdering neighbour with a smashed beer bottle



Man's apology for killing the only neighbour who made him feel welcome

A Brisbane man who picked up his neighbour and threw him down a flight of stairs has been sentenced to seven years' jail for his manslaughter.



Jail for man who killed neighbour he thought was coming on to him

But on May 19, 2016, McKnight attacked Mr Stevenson and left him to die with a carving fork impaled in his chest.



A mediation expert says neighbours sometimes think with their emotions

Eva Whitecross is facing court for allegedly murdering Rachel Tyquin at the weekend after hitting breaking point over their multitude of problems.

On Saturday about 7.30am, Ms Tyquin was found just 250m from her Balmoral Circuit home with stab wounds to her neck.

The case of Ms Tyquin and Whitecross is not the only neighbourhood dispute that has ended in a brutal murder, with another taking place in Victoria not that long ago.

Earlier this month, Ian Jamieson admitted to killing three of his neighbours in 2014 over a fight about a dirt track.

In Wedderburn, northwest of Bendigo, Peter Lockhart, 78, Mary Lockhart, 75, and Mary’s son Gregory Holmes, 48, were slain by gunfire.

The Herald Sun reported Jamieson was angry that dust from the dirt track was blowing from Mr Holmes’ property.


And so on, and so on........

Killers are gonna kill........kitchen knife, beer bottle, carving fork, staircase, baseball bat, firearm, coward punch......take your pick.

Personally, I think that if it's going to happen, then a firearm might be a whole lot more merciful.

Not sure that we are in a position to occupy the moral high ground in this area though.

[mtv]

Apart from nutters going crazy with guns, when firearms are so easily obtainable and carried, unintended deaths are bound to happen.

Yet another school shooting... this one said to have been accidental, but accidents are something unavoidable.

Carrying a loaded weapon into a school is a deliberate choice... nothing 'accidental' about it.

[trash]

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

Lao Tzu

But fvck just one goat !

[trash]

Arm the Children.

[technoweenie]

Just before Thala Dam posted, i remember when living in a private Swiss Chalet above the snow line opening a cupboard to see a Semi Automatic. It appears every man from 20-40 was a soldier and bared arms, hence the farmers son's gun. But I have only heard of one massacre in 40 years. Reason to me appears to be one colour, one people, one political system, one purpose. Does not say much for the States, but then again ain't too many Swiss
Was watch a show about Boadicea, who revolted and fought the Romans 2000 years ago, reason was the Romans were trying to de arm them to get total control, The Nazis de armed Norway by going to the official records, finding who had guns, knocking on their doors and confiscating said guns%^!!
Any official records in the States??????

Couple things to note.

'We the people' are the militia. That's what the 2A is about.

It's actually codified in federal law. Able bodied males between 17 and 40 (IIRC) are all part of the militia...

As far as the 'records' go, no record is allowed to be made, per federal law, however it's widely ignored. Most states have registries, and dealers keep 4473 forms .. There's a famous scene in Red Dawn which points out how dangerous 4473s truly are, in a 'militia' environment..

[technoweenie]

Arm the Children.

This is a straw man argument.

You take a position that your opponent is not espousing, and attempt to belittle and denigrate the position. You're making a straw man, then beating it up.... Not the opponent..

[technoweenie]

Hahaha.... you're just teasing me. I already know the answers to my questions... but I thought it would be fun to have you answer them anyway.


Question 1: How much do you trust your government?

Very little. I think the gov't is trying to take what it can, and forgets that they serve the people. Too many corrupt politicians. How do you enter 'public service' and end up with a net worth in the hundreds of millions?

Question 2: How much does everybody else trust your government?

I think it depends on what they see as the role of gov't, and what the gov't is doing at the time that they may agree with. People love gov't when it's enforcing their agenda, not realizing it could just as easily be pushing someone else's idea or agenda. The gov't exists to serve the people, but it's gotten too big.

Question 3a: If a referendum was held tomorrow on changing the second amendment, How would they reword or write a new amendment?

It would never happen, but if it did, I think it should be strengthened and further clarified. I personally see it pretty clear, but others may twist it to see their view, much like bible verses.

Question 3b: Do you think it would be successful and if so or not, by what margins?

From a popular vote standpoint, some people want it repealed, but adding or removing to the constitution was designed to be extremely difficult for that reason.

The other aspect of that is, the constitution just acknowledged inherent rights. Rights that we all have. It didn't create rights, and it doesn't grant rights that gov't can take away.

The problem I have is that the 2nd amendment is there for a reason and that trying to impose .. lets call it Australian values, on an American population is completely why the amendment was created.
I see no reason to change it and I'm guessing Americans see it exactly the same way. There is no point in punishing the entire population for the actions of minorities or one person.

There is a saying, supposedly by Thomas Jefferson... 'The glory of the 2nd amendment is that it won't be needed until they try to take it away', Opining that tyrannical gov't will attempt to seize weapons first.

Now, if you look at American states with high corruption, they also coincide nicely with those that have strict gun control. People can't fight back, and you can do whatever you want...

The 'Battle of Athens, TN' happened because people were fed up with corruption. They used their 'god' given rights..

What is interesting is comparing Canada to the USA.




Australian gun laws are done state by state so there is a lot of inconsistency here.
In NSW you cannot own a gun without a licence. Though I think you can own an antique muzzle loader, you won't be able to buy black powder without a licence.
You also cannot own cross bows or a range of other nasty toys.

Class A is air rifles, rimfires and Shotguns. Air rifles are classed as toys in the USA, here you can expect a jail sentence for owning one without a licence.
Class B is center fire and Shotguns. This class highlights how stupid people make laws. If you have a class B licence and not class A, you can own a Shotgun, but not an air rifle..

Personally, if I was writing our state laws, I'd have separate classes for Air rifles, Rimfires, Shotguns and Centerfires. If you have a higher class licence, it automatically covers the lower class.

Now Shotguns, you cannot own a pump action shotgun, but you can own a lever action shotgun. Duh!

Class C is restricted firearms like pump action shotguns. Farmers don't have much issue getting these permits.
Class D is semi auto firearms and fully auto. The sun needs to shine out of your arse for this kind of class. If you own a museum etc, you can get one. But if you're a shit kicker, not a chance.

Class H is Handguns. It's surprisingly not that hand to get a class H licence, but you do have to do a lot to keep it and there are a lot of very tight restrictions on them.
Clubs and their members basically keep a very tight watch on each other.

Laws here in the states are first governed by federal law, which set a basic standard, and other states have different laws.. What makes it interesting is a concealed carry permit may be valid in some states but not others... So, I have concealed carry licenses for my home state and a neighboring state. Those permits create a patchwork of states that I can carry concealed weapons in. To further confuse, different states have different rules on where you can carry. One state allows carry in a bar if you're not drinking, another won't allow you to carry anywhere that alcohol makes more than a set % of sales, so technically you couldn't carry in a liquor store, even if no alcohol is served there. Some states don't allow carry on 'state' property, so technically you can't carry at a rest stop on the highway, since they're 'state property'...You basically have to know the laws of every state you're going to. My current state allows me to carry in airports, and police stations, but I can't go into a bar, even if I'm the DD and not drinking.. I can open carry without a permit, but I can't have it loaded in a vehicle without a permit, but it can be sitting on my passenger seat with a full magazine sitting next to it, I just can't have the mag inserted into the pistol or rifle...

This is one of the reasons that gun advocates are pushing for a nationwide carry permit. One set of laws, one permit.....

[Tiny]

This is a straw man argument.

You take a position that your opponent is not espousing, and attempt to belittle and denigrate the position. You're making a straw man, then beating it up.... Not the opponent..

you obviously didn't see the humour in it.

[technoweenie]

Apart from nutters going crazy with guns, when firearms are so easily obtainable and carried, unintended deaths are bound to happen.

Yet another school shooting... this one said to have been accidental, but accidents are something unavoidable.

Carrying a loaded weapon into a school is a deliberate choice... nothing 'accidental' about it.

Any unintended death is bad..

How many people drown each year? Struck by lightning? Killed by bees? etc.

When it all comes down to it, it's a price we pay for freedom, and the right to resist tyranny.

Yes, it sounds callous, and horrific, OMGZ 20 kids have to die each year....for you to resist some unforeseen potential tyranny?! Yes. As pointed out before, gov'ts have killed hundreds of millions of people in the last century, their own people...

and, as mentioned, the numbers aren't really that high.. They're publicized like thousands of kids die every day in our schools.. It's just not the case.

Is it horrible, yes. Are there ways we can deal with it without hindering the rights of others? Yes.

Criminals don't follow laws. Gun control operates on the premise that criminals will follow laws.

[technoweenie]

you obviously didn't see the humour in it.

I did. I just figured I'd point that out.

There are a lot of people I used to find funny, that turned things sooooo political it just became unfunny.

I used to love watching Conan, The Daily Show, Colbert, etc... even with their strong leftist views, but it's gotten so far out there, pushing agenda after agenda.... I can't even enjoy the humor in it anymore....

A lot of programs used to make fun of both parties/everyone equally, and since the election it's been an all out attack on rural sensibilities and culture.

[trash]

Strawman argument - Duh! (captain obvious)
Yeah - It's piss funny Tiny and he didn't even sound like he was supporting any sort of gun control.

[allover]

I did. I just figured I'd point that out.

There are a lot of people I used to find funny, that turned things sooooo political it just became unfunny.

I used to love watching Conan, The Daily Show, Colbert, etc... even with their strong leftist views, but it's gotten so far out there, pushing agenda after agenda.... I can't even enjoy the humor in it anymore....

A lot of programs used to make fun of both parties/everyone equally, and since the election it's been an all out attack on rural sensibilities and culture.

Here in Australia i don't think we would call it a Leftist view?, possibly a centralist view? then again we have more social services and health care so as one pundit put it, we don't need god as much as the Americans

[Tiny]

Strawman argument - Duh! (captain obvious)
Yeah - It's piss funny Tiny and he didn't even sound like he was supporting any sort of gun control.

I thought the video was the highlight of this thread; crap I guess that's just me, I'm not normal & proud of it.
My missus even though it was funny.... some people are really hard to please or amuse.

[technoweenie]

Here in Australia i don't think we would call it a Leftist view?, possibly a centralist view? then again we have more social services and health care so as one pundit put it, we don't need god as much as the Americans

I'm agnostic, FYI. Definitely not the bible thumping redneck that gun owners are stereotyped as..

[lsemmens]

+1 tiny! I'd better not go to America, I might get arrested at the airport for subversive thoughts. Fancy not needing a gun to feel safe.....

[allover]

I see the American Constitution has been altered 37 times, simply why cannot it be altered to ban semi and fully auto rifles simple, some one would not make as much money. The plain and simple truth is as they found out in Australia, no one needs these weapons to hunt or protect them selves
Bowling for Columbine 2002 was on SBS last night, same arguments, same results. The name of Timothy McVey member of the militia blew up a building 120 dead, but the High School massacre, 12 dead students killed by 2 other students with access to weapons, how in the hell pimply, testosterone kids get access to them is unbelievable
There was an assertion that the Nat Rifle Assoc may be/had been associated with the KKK ??

[technoweenie]

I see the American Constitution has been altered 37 times, simply why cannot it be altered to ban semi and fully auto rifles simple, some one would not make as much money. The plain and simple truth is as they found out in Australia, no one needs these weapons to hunt or protect them selves.

No, not 'simple'. and not about money.

We fought for our independence... Australia, Canada, etc. remained as colonies of the crown for how long?

. . . The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it to be always kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong, but better so than not to be exercised at all. I like a little rebellion now and then. It is like a storm in the atmosphere.

…Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon & pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure….

Bowling for Columbine 2002 was on SBS last night, same arguments, same results. The name of Timothy McVey member of the militia blew up a building 120 dead, but the High School massacre, 12 dead students killed by 2 other students with access to weapons, how in the hell pimply, testosterone kids get access to them is unbelievable
There was an assertion that the Nat Rifle Assoc may be/had been associated with the KKK ??

The NRA actually helped train black people to use weapons to protect themselves from the KKK.

The KKK was started by democrats, and run by democrats.... The civil rights act was pushed by Republicans.

[technoweenie]

+1 tiny! I'd better not go to America, I might get arrested at the airport for subversive thoughts. Fancy not needing a gun to feel safe.....

That's what's so great. If you don't want a gun, you don't have to buy one!