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Thread: Ask an American 'Gun Nut' anything, aka does the rest of the world understand us?

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    Default Ask an American 'Gun Nut' anything, aka does the rest of the world understand us?

    I'm honestly curious...

    Do other countries understand U.S. gun culture? Do they understand it's tied to our national identity and spirit of resistance to tyranny?

    Oh, and, feel free to ask me anything... I'd be more than happy to answer.

    Please keep the thread reasonable... I don't want it locked for something silly.

    I made sure to read the rules, and didn't find anything against gun talk, but if I missed a section on it, my apologies.

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    I don't know about the rest of the world but...
    I don't understand why every man and his dog thinks it's ok to wander around with a gun.
    I mean I'd think twice about having a holiday in the US just in case some nutter decided to shoot at me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteOx View Post
    I don't know about the rest of the world but...
    I don't understand why every man and his dog thinks it's ok to wander around with a gun.
    I mean I'd think twice about having a holiday in the US just in case some nutter decided to shoot at me.
    Well..

    As a colony, we got sick of the King dictating EVERYTHING that we did, taxing everything that we did, and ended up having a war about it.

    The first thing the crown did, is restrict speech, ban and confiscate arms, invade people's houses with 'general warrants', etc.

    We fought a bloody war, and the first 10 amendments to the constitution directly reflect issues we have with the crown.

    They restricted speech, so our first amendment was freedom to speak, freedom to assemble, freedom to exercise your religion, etc

    They restricted arms, declared them illegal, and kicked in people's doors to search and take them, hence the right to KEEP and bear ARMS, (2nd Amendment) and freedom from unreasonable searches and seizures (4th Amendment).

    Focusing strictly on the 2nd, the second was designed to say that WE THE PEOPLE are the militia, and in fact, is codified in U.S. law, where it states that any able bodied male from 17-40 is part of the militia... and that militia must have access to arms, in order to defend not only the state, but the rights that were acknowledged (not granted) by the constitution.

    The Constitution as intended by the framers, acknowledged inalienable rights. Rights not granted by the gov't but endowed by 'the creator', rights that ALL humans have because we are human.

    Thus, the entire population of the U.S. , WE THE PEOPLE, are responsible for its defense... including internal and external threats.

    As far as a bunch of Americans owning guns, there are as many guns as there are people, but obviously not everyone has a gun. There are a lot of people that own a ton of guns.

    MOST gun violence is drug or gang related, and is pretty much in city centers....Very little gun violence once you take those out. School shootings are the oddball, and yes, there are idiots out there that do stupid stuff, but gun owners are generally law abiding people.

    As a matter of fact, statistically speaking, concealed carry permit holders (permits in the states that allow you to carry a concealed pistol) are more law abiding than police officers. In other words, cops commit more crimes than civilians with guns do.

    Also, misleading in the gun statistics, is HALF of gun 'murders' are not murder, but suicide....

    A little over 400 people last year were killed by rifles, that includes the fake named 'assault rifles'...

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    Mass shootings in the US: there have been 1,624 in 1,870 days

    No other developed nation comes close to the rate of US gun violence. Americans own an estimated 265m guns, more than one gun for every adult.

    Data from the Gun Violence Archive reveals there is a mass shooting – defined as four or more people shot in one incident, not including the shooter – nine out of every 10 days on average

    Fact......

    In Australia you are more likely to win the lottery than get shot by somebody else.....

    Fact......

    That's pretty much the difference between the two countries......

    Yes, I've lived in the states, been to every mainland state except Louisiana.....

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    When they were first settling the US, there was a need for self protection as some of the Wild Life is exactly that, WILD and can and will Kill you.
    Australia never had that problem except in the Far North with the Crocodiles but they stay in or close by water.
    Then they had a few 'problems' with those already there and were in many instances, extremely resistive to anyone encroaching on what they considered theirs.
    Hunting to survive was a part of life in the early USA unlike here where there are few animals available and many of them downright inedible.
    Here we didnt have the Buffolo/Bison, Deer, Cariboo, Elk,Bear or Moose so they had to introduce Sheep, Cattle, Goats, Pigs and Rabbits. With the exception of the Rabbit that was deliberately released for hunting, the desire for Hunting is negated because there is nothing to hunt for to put on the Table.
    Going around a course shooting at Targets doesnt sound much like hunting to me.

    Although very anti Gun, I have no problems with Gun ownership but I cant understand why anyone wants one that can blow holes through plate steel and fires a millions rounds a second.....
    I stand unequivicably behind everything I say , I just dont ever remember saying it !!

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    Quote Originally Posted by hoe View Post
    Mass shootings in the US: there have been 1,624 in 1,870 days

    No other developed nation comes close to the rate of US gun violence. Americans own an estimated 265m guns, more than one gun for every adult.

    Data from the Gun Violence Archive reveals there is a mass shooting – defined as four or more people shot in one incident, not including the shooter – nine out of every 10 days on average
    I'd love to see the actual numbers on that. Sounds like one of those cherry picked BS numbers that's skewed from some source other than reality.

    The left is known for starting their own non-profits and spinning data in ways they see fit, like making a 'mass shooting' 3 people instead of 4, or including suicides in 'gun violence'...


    Fact......

    In Australia you are more likely to win the lottery than get shot by somebody else.....

    Fact......

    That's pretty much the difference between the two countries......
    More people die from botched operations (doctors) than guns. You're more likely to die by the hand of your doctor than by a gun, unless you're in the business of dealing drugs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gordon_s1942 View Post
    When they were first settling the US, there was a need for self protection as some of the Wild Life is exactly that, WILD and can and will Kill you.
    Australia never had that problem except in the Far North with the Crocodiles but they stay in or close by water.
    Then they had a few 'problems' with those already there and were in many instances, extremely resistive to anyone encroaching on what they considered theirs.
    Hunting to survive was a part of life in the early USA unlike here where there are few animals available and many of them downright inedible.
    Here we didnt have the Buffolo/Bison, Deer, Cariboo, Elk,Bear or Moose so they had to introduce Sheep, Cattle, Goats, Pigs and Rabbits. With the exception of the Rabbit that was deliberately released for hunting, the desire for Hunting is negated because there is nothing to hunt for to put on the Table.
    Going around a course shooting at Targets doesnt sound much like hunting to me.

    Although very anti Gun, I have no problems with Gun ownership but I cant understand why anyone wants one that can blow holes through plate steel and fires a millions rounds a second.....
    There still is a need for protection from 2 legged critters. Meth is getting to be a BIG problem in the states.

    I see it more as a rural vs urban divide, as a lot of people are....

    The reason I posted the much abridged version of the 2A, is because nowhere in it will you find anything about hunting...

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    1: if you want to own a gun good for you, i dont and never will because i
    have seen the result of its destruction first hand when some one i knew shot
    himself.

    2: i have no idea why you need a semi auto bit of ovrkill isnt it

    3: i use this site to look at the stats
    pretty fked up the number of deaths. This year alone 2517 total deaths that have been
    checked and verified how can you say its not an issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by technoweenie View Post

    More people die from botched operations (doctors) than guns. You're more likely to die by the hand of your doctor than by a gun, unless you're in the business of dealing drugs.
    fk me never see a doctor then looking at the gun deaths and you are saying more die at the hands
    of a doctor that is just messed up starting to sound like you are talking about india or thiland
    Last edited by fandtm666; 06-03-18 at 04:16 PM.

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    Some good points here.......

    Particularly the last paragraph....

    “In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate,” Dan Hodges, a British journalist, wrote in a post on Twitter two years ago, referring to the 2012 attack that killed 20 young students at an elementary school in Connecticut. “Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.”

    Btw, I grew up in a gun friendly household and have been shooting since I was in primary school...

    Having lived in the states, I feel that the very fact that so many Americans feel the need to 'carry' at all times means thay have already lost the freedom they claim to be enjoying....



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    Last edited by hoe; 06-03-18 at 04:28 PM.

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    Add my thoughts, when the constitution was framed, there is a big difference from a Blunderbust to a semi automatic
    Note we too have made a stand against the crown, fortunately they had learnt by their mistakes by then (Eureka Stockade)
    Just curious as to why you would still have a Milita, Mexico has already infiltrated the US
    There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Madness"

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    Quote Originally Posted by technoweenie View Post
    Do other countries understand U.S. gun culture? Do they understand it's tied to our national identity and spirit of resistance to tyranny?
    Actually I do understand. Americans need guns for historical reasons, to defend against ancient, or perceived, enemies.

    Do we (the rest of the world) really care? Not much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hoe View Post
    Having lived in the states, I feel that the very fact that so many Americans feel the need to 'carry' at all times means thay have already lost the freedom they claim to be enjoying....
    Pure gold hoe.
    Cheers, Tiny
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    The information is out there; you just have to let it in."

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    Quote Originally Posted by fandtm666 View Post
    fk me never see a doctor then looking at the gun deaths and you are saying more die at the hands
    of a doctor that is just messed up starting to sound like you are talking about india or thiland
    From the reading I've done on the subject, malpractice causes over 250 000 deaths a year, in the US.

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    From the reading I've done on the subject, the greatest threat to Americans, is other Americans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fandtm666 View Post
    1: if you want to own a gun good for you, i dont and never will because i
    have seen the result of its destruction first hand when some one i knew shot
    himself.
    Yes, suicide with a gun is much more deadly than suicide via other slower methods that you may be able to intervene. However, those who are truly suicidal, will usually do so, so, whether by firearms, pills, hanging, or jumping, if they haven't received the help they need, they're going to do it, one way or another.

    2: i have no idea why you need a semi auto bit of ovrkill isnt it
    How is one supposed to protect oneself from gov't if you don't have the same tools they have? I own an AK47 variant, multiple pistols, and some other 'toys'.... Of course, I find shooting to be a hobby as well.. Guns are a right and a responsibility.

    3: i use this site to look at the stats
    pretty fked up the number of deaths. This year alone 2517 total deaths that have been
    checked and verified how can you say its not an issue.
    I just checked.

    They're counting suicides, and justified shootings (police shooting people, and citizens shooting criminals) as 'gun violence'.. Trumped up BS is what it is.

    But, even if it WAS the case, gov't around the world has killed hundreds of millions of their own people in the last century alone... What if that's the price of staving off a genocidal gov't? Funny, how police can do what they want with you when you have no way to fight back, eh?


    fk me never see a doctor then looking at the gun deaths and you are saying more die at the hands
    of a doctor that is just messed up starting to sound like you are talking about india or thiland

    No, just a numbers game. We have, I think 330 million people in our country at last count, and that's not including all the illegal immigrants...

    Total numbers may seem high, but in reality, they're not..

    Ie 30,000 a year die to guns.. But half of those are suicides.. Then if you take out gang related shootings, drug related shootings, ie people who put themselves in that situation, you're left with only a couple thousand, around 2500 if my memory serves me correctly.. Now, 2500 out of 330 million is pretty small, isn't it?

    Just like plane crashes. Everyone remembers the 250 people that killed when that one plane went down, when deadly plane crashes only happen every 7-10 years.... So everyone is afraid of flying... but you're more likely to be struck by lightning than die in a plane crash.. Almost infinitely more likely to die in a car crash, but not many people are scared of driving, just flying... because it seems like a bigger incident than it really is.

    Chicago is always a good example, VERY strict gun control, not out of the ordinary for 50 people a weekend to get killed... Yet, 17 people get killed at once and everyone yells. Meanwhile, 25 people a day are getting killed over 2 days in Chicago, and no one bats an eye... Same deal with the plane crash.. 1 + 3 + 2 + 3 +4 +1 +2 +2 +1, etc etc adds up, but no one sees that, they see '17' and panic.... No one sees the 40k people a year that die in car crashes, they see the 250 that die in one plane crash...

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    Quote Originally Posted by hoe View Post

    Having lived in the states, I feel that the very fact that so many Americans feel the need to 'carry' at all times means thay have already lost the freedom they claim to be enjoying....



    Sent from my BLA-L29 using Tapatalk
    I think there may be some truth to that.

    Wikileaks, Snowden, the two party system essentially dividing the country in half. The rhetoric getting to extreme levels.. It basically boils down to the rural people, who are self sufficient and pretty much wanna be left alone, and the city people, who want to hand gov't power because they think it will make everything perfect for them....

    Toss in the political corruption that runs rampant through both parties, I honestly believe this country is on borrowed time, what its next incarnation is, I don't know, but I do know that having the ability to defend oneself is paramount.

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    Quote Originally Posted by allover View Post
    Add my thoughts, when the constitution was framed, there is a big difference from a Blunderbust to a semi automatic
    There's a big difference between quill and parchment, and posting online for everyone to see. There's a big difference between a block printing press and motorized printers, so everyone can print a flyer, newspaper, or anything else.... Email, instant global communication, etc. If your argument is 'they didn't foresee', then the 1st amendment doesn't apply to the internet...in any of its forms... nor email, or your home printer...or even modern printing methods.

    Not to mention there were full auto weapons, cannons, etc. that were privately owned, BEFORE the revolutionary war.. Puckle gun, for instance...was made in 1718 IIRC...decades before the forming of our gov't... The gov't intended, and scholars have agreed, that 'we the people' being the militia, should be equipped as the infantry soldier of the day. At the time, that meant musket, now it means M4...


    Note we too have made a stand against the crown, fortunately they had learnt by their mistakes by then (Eureka Stockade)
    Just curious as to why you would still have a Milita, Mexico has already infiltrated the US
    LOL.

    We had and still have volunteer border patrol who organize and identify as militia. They're an asset to US CBP, just not advertised or spoken much about. They're thrown under the bus and accused of being yahoos and cowboys, and yeah, I'm sure there are a couple bad apples, but they're generally good people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Onefella View Post
    Actually I do understand. Americans need guns for historical reasons, to defend against ancient, or perceived, enemies.

    Do we (the rest of the world) really care? Not much.
    All tyrannical gov't seize power by lying to the public and declaring that turning in their guns is the best option to keep them safe. Do you think 6 million jews would have been slaughtered if they kept their guns? There is actually an American organization, Jews for the Preservation of Firearm Ownership () that exists and pushes that message strongly 'we will not be victims again'... Pol Pot, Stalin, etc. all removed guns from their law abiding citizens before rounding them up for the slaughter. Once again, our gun rights are under attack saying the same thing everyone else did..... 'Give us your guns, you'll be safer, it's for your own good!', that really hasn't been shown to be true. Knife attacks rise, home invasions, robberies, etc all increase, then the only people with guns are criminals....

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtv View Post
    From the reading I've done on the subject, the greatest threat to Americans, is other Americans.
    Due to the current political climate, I'd agree.

    Way too many focusing on 'the other side' and not watching the gov't.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by technoweenie View Post
    All tyrannical gov't seize power by lying to the public and declaring that turning in their guns is the best option to keep them safe. Do you think 6 million jews would have been slaughtered if they kept their guns? There is actually an American organization, Jews for the Preservation of Firearm Ownership () that exists and pushes that message strongly 'we will not be victims again'... Pol Pot, Stalin, etc. all removed guns from their law abiding citizens before rounding them up for the slaughter. Once again, our gun rights are under attack saying the same thing everyone else did..... 'Give us your guns, you'll be safer, it's for your own good!', that really hasn't been shown to be true. Knife attacks rise, home invasions, robberies, etc all increase, then the only people with guns are criminals....
    Keep telling yourself that. Whatever lets you sleep at night.

    The truth is, most developed countries get by very well with moderate gun restrictions. I'm living in one right now. I own a lever-action 30-30 for pigs, and a bolt-action 12-guage shotgun for geese and ducks. Suits my needs perfectly.

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