Well...well...credit where credit is due.
A Victorian lowlife sentenced to a REAL sentence for once....AND his accomplice already had his sentence increased on appeal...
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
Look Here -> |
Must have been a visiting interstate judge!!!
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Statistically, if you wait long enough, everything will happen!
I was hoping for a traditional Page 3 style centrefold "stunner". Instead I get more of Victoria's incompetent ideologically driven problems! Thanks enf. It was worth posting, but I can't help but be disappointed.
Can't help a bit of nostalgia. I haven't heard the word "stunner" in years. A good mate in my long vanished youth used to use it all of the time, but sadly he moved many years ago to Daniel Andrew's banana republic, then a strong and viable Australian state. I haven't spoken to him for a few years now, but must give him a call.
DB44 (17-04-18)
In crimes like this, it is real shame we put them in a Tax Funded Hotel with free food, electricity, dental and medical.
The only justice i can see, is their lives taken.
If u want to go on an expedition get a Land Rover, if u want to come home from an expedition get a Landcruiser!
alpha0ne (18-04-18)
irritant (18-04-18)
Yes, but not before having their arses kicked by other grubs on a daily basis for the next two decades.
Have to be careful of the "free hotel" fallacy. American jails suffer from this fallacy a lot. They don't deprive their inmates of 'just enough' stimulation to keep them uncomfortable. Instead they deprive them of too much and the inmates then seek stimulation in any form they can get it. They have too much time to think.
I never understood why they take the trouble/violent prisoners and put them in the hole. Yes, it is supposed to be a punishment of solitary and they obviously don't like it. Why there isn't a TV in the cell wall beats me. It distracts the inmate.
Better to fill their head with shit than let them stew. If their head is filled with sports and entertainment, they find it much harder to find the time to make a shank and throw shit at the screws and punish them for chucking them in the SHU.
TV is the great distracter, each cell should have a TV and it should be as entertaining as possible.
I wonder how many of you guys have seen 60 days in. The series is in Atlanta country jails. I can see plenty of things wrong with this facility. One of the most noticeable that the inmates had no sunlight.
Their 1 hour of rec was in an enclosed space with a high window which had no direct sunlight. And that seemed to be one or the lesser problems with the shit conditions they were in.
But what was also noticeable was that they had a common TV and it appeared to provide a lot of the distraction.
I certainly don't like the idea of access to gym equipment in prisons. That seems completely contrary to how you want to keep prisoners. Letting them get strong and skilled is trouble.
Any exercise they get should not be muscle building. It should be weight loss.
I also have no trouble with educating prisoners. Maths, English, Economics, Politics. Eventually you're going to release most of these people back into the community. If you can stop them being grubs, then you reduce their ability to corrupt and be corrupted.
Some NSW prisons already have skills training, usually for lost youth. They don't take on grubs and violent offenders. They are proper rehabilitation and teach welding, mechanics, electrical, plumbing, brick laying carpentry etc. Basic labouring skills.
The point is to give them basic useful training, demonstrate to them that they are not worthless and allows them to demonstrate that they can comply and be functional members of the community while discovering what they are good at.
When they are released, they're then funneled into real work and training.
But with long term prisoners, having real work and basic housing for them should be part of their parole. If they are not able to find their own employment, then they are given time labouring on government projects and suitable accommodation.
You don't expect anything amazing or efficient from them, but the point is to cut our losses. If they are working, even what we consider to be meaningless work, it keeps them away from organised crime. If need be they could be supervised for their parole period so they have a good chance of becoming functional, responsible and independent.
Think of these grubs. When/if they get out in 2040 do you want to going back to being grubs and committing a crime to get back into the program?
No. Worst case is they are on the dole watching TV for the rest of their life. It's cheaper than keeping them locked up. But they will be unsupervised and susceptible to bad influences. We don't want that.
It's cutting our losses. Shooting them is obviously a lot cheaper, but <sigh> then I sound like a nazi and the leftards are on my front lawn etc
Keeping them busy and giving them something to look forward to or at least be somewhat rewarding. Being able to enjoy a beer without getting shit faced and violent is where we want them.
Yes I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.
Sorry trash. I can't agree. Your post is a good one in many ways. I have visited many prisons and even visiting in a professional capacity there is always a feeling of relief on having the last of those gates close behind you as you leave. Many of these facilities could be a holiday camp for prisoners except for two things. Their fellow prisoners and their guards. They make life hell for each other. And, of course, the loss of freedom and privacy is itself a severe punishment. However, these people have ended someone's life in a brutal premeditated attack. I don't think they should be getting out, in 2040 or any other time. They deserve the same to look forward to as their victim has. And they should never enjoy a beer again.
For lesser crimes and some offenders there is much to be said for at least trying some of the alternatives you suggest. However, for this particular crime and these particular criminals rehabilitation should not figure in a sentence. Punishment and public safety should be the only considerations. I would support the death penalty in this case, but for the term of their natural lives would be the next best option, provided that they are kept very securely. And if they should happen to suicide? I will not be mourning them.
Last edited by DB44; 17-04-18 at 10:35 PM.
VroomVroom (18-04-18)
Nar, I don't agree with them getting out. I have no say or opinion over their sentencing. I'm just working with what we have as a community.
The point I was making was that as you agree, prison isn't so much of a holiday camp. It's a constant and elevated stressful environment.
If prison was full of people like me, it would be hell for the guards. But that's the point. You don't want bored or smart prisoners.
You want them disorganised, dumb and lazy. Compliant, Docile and rehabilitatable. But we are under no delusion some people do not want or are not capable or rehabilitation.
Zoos with primates do a better job of it. They keep primates distracted, because when they don't, they get creative and dangerous.
The chimps in a zoo will never be released, but they are assured conditions which encourage compliance.
A good example I can think of is Pedophiles. There are several levels to these offenders. There are those who are charged with "sex with a minor".
They are labeled by the legal system as pedophiles. These people are not really criminals but they have crossed a line. It is the job of the judiciary to divert these people and make sure they are punished but are not destroyed by the criminal system.
There are those that are real pedophiles and are capable of controlling themselves. They're punished appropriately by the criminal system and when released you want them to be functional members of the community and not re-offend.
(I have no comment on how that is achieved).
Then there are the dangerous individuals who you don't ever want to be released. But lets assume you have an example of one that is due to be released. You're going to do your darnedest to prevent them from re-offending.
And it is far better to do the pro-actively than post-actively.
Yes I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.
I don't believe gaol, solitary, etc. truly rattles the more hardened psychopaths.
You need to force them to go and do good, or something they find uncomfortable and unnerving. It should be a deterrent. They run the can. I've seen too many actually enjoy going to gaol where they can further brutalize others and get even more out of hand - and nothing can be done to them because they're already inside. They've got the system clocked.
If they like shooting, being gangsters, etc. send the scum to the bloody military where they have to fight for the country/for a good cause, which would go totally against their egos and break them psychologically.
Like these "victims" who take people to court for calling them "obscene" names, etc. - force them to go and see a court-ordered state-paid therapist for two years to deal with their "emotional trauma" instead of paying them thousands in "damages". If they miss an appointment - gaol time.
The system should become once again what it was meant to be - a crime deterrent.
One of the few 'Good Things' to come out of the NSW Prisons is that at Bathurst NSW, they have a program to train 'Assistance Dogs'.
Just recently they had a 'passing out parade' of about 8 dogs.
Those who had received Assistance Dogs from previous programs couldn't speak highly enough of how they appreciated the work done and how it had had a major impact on their daily lives.
They say working with Animals can maybe take the rough edge off some and for those it does, its claimed they are the better for participating.
There are huge costs in training Dogs for any service but because its done by the inmates in the Prison, the costs are markedly reduced.
I stand unequivicably behind everything I say , I just dont ever remember saying it !!
lsemmens (18-04-18)
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