cmangle (07-05-18)
I have to agree with you on that Paris Accord part cmangle. What an absolute crock of you know what. It's been in effect for how long now, and so many countries have bought into it, and climate change still happened!
You're absolutely right, only Donald saw it for what it is and immediately put an end to literally sending someone money for nothing (and a lot at that).
The rest of the world were too busy keeping up their PC appearances to notice what a farce it truly is.
cmangle (07-05-18)
It is not unknown for brief snowfalls during summer in the higher parts of the Central Tablelands/Central West. Places like Orange, Oberon and the high ranges in Barrington Tops. As earlier remarked walkers in the Snowy Mountains have been caught out in snowfalls during summer.
Not really unusual to occur and can remember even as a kid in the 1960's of these events from time to time.
Thala Dan (08-05-18)
I've noticed an interesting phenomenon lately where 'deniers are quoting data that supports a slower-than-expected global surface temperature rise, as some sort of 'victory'. Luckily the same organisations and institutes that provided that data, decided to find out why their original models are off. It turns out the original temperature rise predictions were pretty close, but they hadn't allowed enough for the amount of heat the world's oceans would absorb. Scientists are still in the process of figuring out the long-term ramifications of this event. But we're already seeing tropical coral bleaching on a worldwide scale, some considerable evidence of which, is right here on our Australian 'doorstep' with the Great Barrier Reef.
Climate change and global warming aren't a myth dreamed up by scientists to keep their jobs. It's real, and it's everybody's problem. I might wish my current conservative government would do more to help with the problem, but they do (reluctantly) take it seriously, and they are helping in their own small way. I feel proud of the fact that Australia is at least rowing in the same direction as most of the rest of the planet, even if not exactly putting their back into the stroke. The USA is like a petulant child sitting there with their arms crossed, refusing to help, but happy to reap the benefits of the rest of humankind's efforts. Well the USA can go and get stuffed! I hope they all freeze to death in 6m snowdrifts in July, 'cause it's dry and hot as hell here and most other places on the planet.
The climate deniers always remind me of those seven tobacco executives back in 1994 fronting the House Energy and Commerce Subcommittee on Health and the Environment.:
Tobacco Chiefs Say Cigarettes Aren't Addictive
The top executives of the seven largest American tobacco companies testified in Congress today that they did not believe that cigarettes were addictive, but that they would rather their own children did not smoke.
I think that this exchange is particularly prescient:
It is indeed comforting that Australia, and many other countries, are at least acknowledging the issue and taking some fledgling steps towards addressing it."Do you understand how isolated you are from the scientific community in your belief?" Mr. Waxman asked.
"I do, sir," Mr. Tisch said.
The following shows:
Status of Pledges and Contributions to the Paris Accord Green Climate Fund as at April 20, 2018.
A total of 43 state governments have made a pledge to the Green Climate Fund (GCF) to date, including 9 representing developing countries. The objective is for all pledges to be converted into contribution agreements within one year from the time at which they are made. The combined pledges and contributions made to the Fund are indicated in the table below.
The Paris Accord was ratified in 2015….just three years ago….did you expect that climate change would cease immediately thereafter?
Perhaps you could enlighten us as to which part of the Accord you feel is farcical, and the grounds on which you have reached that conclusion.
Perhaps if we all just sit around, do nothing, and pretend, climate change will go away?
As for the United States….I’m reminded of Upton Sinclairs’ quote:
In the case of the U.S. in this instance, you can substitute lifestyle, profits, vested interests, geopolitical dominance, or any other of a number of factors for “salary”.“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”
Hopefully, the current situation in the U.S. is but a temporary aberration, and scientifically based common sense and global cooperation will eventually reside in the White House once again.
The Good/News relating to Climate change is that it wont happen overnight as we have seen in a few 'Disaster' films made in recent times.
The Bad News is it that what changes do occur, they will take a few decades to reach their peak.
How far these changes will go no one knows and for those who have taken a 'Worse case Scenario' attitude may have managed by that time to mitigate the changes overall effect on the population.
Of course if those who refuse to take any preventative steps are in charge, who knows what the outcome will be.
The attitude of the USA has always been that 'Business Comes First' and NOTHING must impede the pursuit of the Mighty Dollar.
It was 'Big Business' that took manufacturing 'Off Shore' chasing a cheaper labour Market and moved Country to Country as the cost of living rose where they were currently based.
Donald Trump has been a Businessman all his life and being elected ( what a joke) as the President of the USA, wont change his beliefs very much.
Last edited by gordon_s1942; 08-05-18 at 05:52 PM.
I stand unequivicably behind everything I say , I just dont ever remember saying it !!
Which part? How about the whole thing?
I'm not talking about the inner contents of it, I'm talking about the concept.
Look, I'm not denying climate change is not real. I know it's real, I've seen it here where I live.
You're assuming because I don't like the Paris Accord that I am "one of them" who think climate change is nonsense. I never said that.
But it's like everything else in this world nowadays - just another half-arsed attempt to change something that requires DRASTIC and I mean DRASTIC intervention.
If you want to combat climate change, I suggest the first place they look is all these acres and acres of deforestation (due to slash and burn farming to produce stuff like bloody palm oil that is purely a money-driven industry over and above each and every environmental consequence you can imagine) happening daily in the equitorial so-called "3rd world" areas in tropical rain forest regions.
And this is just one example.
Nobody will do anything about it, because those poor souls have to "make a living too" whilst completely destroying natural resources on a scale no business has ever done. What is going to happen when they legalize things like pot and millions of acres gets slashed down to make way for weed farms?
And that in my book makes it a farce. You can't accuse one party of turning their gaze away from the problem in order to pursue profits when there is someone else doing it too, on an even worse scale.
The people who will listen are the ones who will always be targeted. Like soft targets that are pursued by the law instead of the real criminals.
Why is it always the 1st world, the private sector, business, etc. that has to "do something" or be "reigned in"? Because it's easy to confront these people.
If one of these "suits" (that's all they are) were to confront the real culprits in their lairs they probably won't return home alive, and they know it.
I stand by what I say, and no disrespect intended to anybody, but it's just another PC thing, created by a PC world, whilst ignoring the true elephant in the room. Business as usual then.
cmangle (08-05-18)
Dr-Mohs, the "Nor'Easter" isn't so much a Cyclone/Hurricane in the winter as it doesn't draw strength/force from warm Gulfstream waters, but nevertheless it moves in a North-East direction (hence "Nor'easter") with counter clockwise winds/circulation, usually starting from a south east location. A "Nor'easter" can be formed off of Florida, it can be formed from Georgia or as a storm front that has moved east across the southern states (Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, the Carolinas) and then as it got to the the Atlantic Ocean, turned Northeast and continues with counter-clockwise rotation on up the Mid Atlantic coastline as a "Nor'easter".
The SNOW from a "Noreaster" does NOT come from a westerly(Vancouver ---> Chicago ---> East Coast) direction. The snow is generated from moisture pulled off of the Atlantic ocean by those low pressure counter-clockwise winds which then hit the cold/frigid Canadian air mass pummeling south down from Canada. The slower the low pressure front moves, the more moisture it pulls in, and the more heavy WET snow falls. The "WET" portion is sometimes determined by the actual temps, it's a WET snow if the temp is at freezing 32f/0c, or if it is a lot colder, say 20f/-7c (and colder) it will be a DRYER/POWDER snow. A "Nor'easter" CAN affect ALL of the East coast states up until the point where it might change direction and head out to sea!
Cold air that comes across down from Canada in the winter time here originates from the Hudson Bay from as far west as Manitoba all the way to Quebec and is called a "Canadian Clipper". A "Clipper" is a fast/rapid/broad movement of frigid air that extends into the Northeast/Mid Atlantic/New England states. It is not unusual for a "Clipper" to drop the temp 30 degrees (40f/4c to 10f/-12c) overnight! Sometimes it travels as far south as the southern most states. This winter, snow has fallen in ALL of those states - Texas, Mississippi, Alabama, Gerogia,North and South Carolina,Tennessee and even half way down the state of Florida!
Last edited by cmangle; 08-05-18 at 07:29 PM.
irritant (08-05-18)
Oh yeah, and all this assuming climate change is definitely a bad thing...
"But, but, but...the media...they portrayed it as such, so it must be."
The earth does its thing. It's neither good nor bad. If nobody wants to tackle the elephant in the room, the earth will, itself. I won't be surprised if in the next ten years 3rd world "industry" suffers a massive hit due to some "excessively prolonged drought".
Awww...
cmangle (08-05-18)
BTW, PRESIDENT Donald Trump with his "Big Business" agenda (what a joke?) saved the US taxpayer $100,000,000 BILLION dollars EVERY year! (and that's not a joke!)
irritant (08-05-18)
Oh yeah, and to top it, the accord is an agreement to lower CO2 emissions.
What about the 410ppmv CO2 () already present?
The only way is lower CO2 levels, and for that you need carbon sequestration, a process still most efficient via photosynthesis - and for that you need plant life (which is being ruthlessly eliminated as mentioned before).
Further carbon sequestration technologies are desperately required. Until then climate change is going to continue happening.
Last edited by irritant; 08-05-18 at 07:47 PM.
cmangle (08-05-18)
So let me see if I've got this right.
The world hates Donald Trump and labels him a fool for pulling out of a billion-dollar agreement, an agreement which wouldn't have made a difference to the current state of the climate, trying to do what he can to get his country out of the 20 trillion dollar deficit it has, by not sending billions of dollars to a place that is affiliated essentially with Angela Merkel, who would eventually funnel this money to places like Greece and Italy (where people are allergic to work) and for causes in her own country like the Syrian refugee crisis, because she loves everyone except her own German people.
So, people are pissed off at Donald Trump for not throwing billions of dollars down a bottomless pit.
Given the current "climate", makes sense I guess.
Last edited by irritant; 09-05-18 at 02:08 AM.
cmangle (08-05-18)
And cmangle...to top it...
The west, constructing these huge (and hideous) wind-farms all over the place, buy all the 200 ft long blades, the turbines, the masts and bases, the transformers from...you guessed it...China.
Who has to use electricity to manufactur all this stuff, and they get that from...coal-fired power stations.
Don't you just love the irony of it all?
A couple of rich Chinese businessmen laughing all the way to the bank because of a "climate change policy" the west invented.
And the Chinese will get away with it because unlike our modern-day western people, who would die an agonizing death if they had to do any kind of work in a factory, the people of China work their asses off in often deplorable conditions. And it's not like here where there are human rights watchdogs and the rest, these people work extremely hard for very little.
And you can't blame China, they just saw an opportunity, and took it. Like any rational person would do. But that's the problem with the west today, everyone has lost their damn minds. If they weren't so damn p-whipped and PC, they would see this.
Last edited by irritant; 08-05-18 at 08:53 PM.
cmangle (08-05-18)
Do you mean like this?
GCF triggers funding for Peruvian project, preventing Amazon emissions
The Green Climate Fund today provided the final approval to begin a combined mitigation and adaptation project stemming deforestation in Peru’s Amazon basin.
“This project comes with real global mitigation benefits as the swamps of Datem del Marańón hold a total carbon stock estimated at around 3.78 billion tonnes of carbon dioxide equivalent (CO2 eq.),” said Alberto Paniagua, Chief Executive Officer of Profonanpe.
“The Amazon peatlands in Peru remain almost entirely intact. But they do face an increasing range of threats, including degradation from the large-scale clearing of palm trees for fruit, illegal logging and palm oil plantation expansion.”
The Executive Director ad interim of the GCF Secretariat, Javier Manzanares highlighted the unique benefits of this project, as it reflects the Fund’s prerogative of ensuring adaptation receives equal weight to mitigation in the Fund’s mobilization of climate finance.
The project’s adaptation component stems from the placement of indigenous communities at the forefront of sustainable land-use reforms to cope with a changing climate.
Or this?
New Climate Funding Includes $500 Million To Protect Forests
5 October 2017 | The fight against climate change just got a half-billion new reasons for hope.
On Monday, the Green Climate Fund (GCF) announced that it had dedicated US$ 500 million to help conserve forests and mangroves — a powerful recognition of nature’s role in solving climate change. Conservation International offered technical advice and analysis to the GCF ahead of the announcement.
Of course, as I said earlier, we could always just sit on our backsides like el Trumpo and do nothing....that would be infinitely less farcical, wouldn't it.
You've obviously had no experience whatsoever with the oil industry.
Because it's the 1st world that has created the entire mess over the last 200 years or so.....and continue to do so at a per capita rate that dwarfs anything happening in the developing world.
You know...the old adage....you make the mess, you clean it up.
The U.S. wind manufacturing sector consists of more than 500 manufacturing facilities spread across 41 states producing the more than 8,000 components that comprise a typical wind turbine
Where are wind turbines produced?
95% of the wind power capacity installed in the U.S. during 2016 used a turbine manufacturer with at least one U.S. manufacturing facility. Major manufacturing facilities have the capability to produce approximately 11,700 MW of turbine nacelles, more than 11,000 individual blades, and more than 3,150 towers annually
Top ten turbine makers of 2017
However you add up the figures, Vestas is the world's leading wind-turbine supplier.
The Danish manufacturer, including the MHI Vestas offshore joint venture, installed more new capacity than any other company during 2016, has the largest cumulative market share, and was active in the highest number of global markets.
mtv (08-05-18)
OK then, let's sit back and let the Paris Accord save the world.
Because, seriously WOW, who can argue with statistics like that?
I was planning to get rid of my V8 SUV and to stop having lights on in the house at night, but knowing what I know now (thank you) f*ck that, I might make a turn at my nearest Porsche dealership tomorrow...
Last edited by irritant; 09-05-18 at 12:16 AM.
cmangle (09-05-18)
Aaahh yes, good ol' let's bash the oil industry. I was waiting for that.
You mean a first world country like Nigeria right? A shining example to the oil industry for sure, of how things should be done, and clearly ALL oil industry operations are like this.
In fact, let's just shut down the whole oil industry while we're at it. It's so dirty and so disgusting, I would rather walk or cycle the 50km to my job everyday. At least my clear conscience will allow me to enjoy the 1 hour a night I'll have left for sleeping.
Oh sh*t, I forgot, I need that for Facebook to converse with my other green friends and discuss some more of the latest statistics about global warming.
What mess?
Thanks global media. Because clearly I need your help to decide for myself whether something is a good thing or a bad thing.
And let's debate that to the death on social media. Because, simply solving a problem is so last century.
Last edited by irritant; 09-05-18 at 12:40 AM.
cmangle (09-05-18)
Thala Dan (09-05-18)
LOL
Am I not entitled to believe what I wish even if it is completely wrong and makes me a look like a complete idiot?
I thought that's what religious people do.
But all jokes aside, statistics are cool and everything, but long before I came along we've seen that it's the statistics you don't see and are not published that end up being the kicker.
Look, say what you will about me, but I'm sorry, I just cannot fully believe that someone, somewhere does not benefit financially out of something like the aforementioned policy, and that it was in no way, shape or form a motivating factor for creating such a policy in the first place.
And how do you prove that?
I've observed this world for far too long.
Look, I'm sorry OK, if I upset someone because I have a different viewpoint to the agreed upon whatever, then I apologize. I did not mean to troll anyone, I was truly under the impression it was just a discussion. I shall refrain.
If there is one thing we can agree upon, we have a climate problem. Nobody can deny that, unless they've been living under a rock for the past decade. OK, so I don't exactly agree on the solution being offerred, which is why I'm doing what I'm doing in my own capacity as well. I truly believe in human potential, and I know, there is no ways someone who believes they can do something is going to sit idly by and let everything go to ruin.
Someone will solve it. You know, I was looking at my post earlier regarding deforestation, and thinking again, maybe stopping it alone is not enough?
I do believe carbon capture and storage is necessary. We not only have to slow down or stop carbon emissions, we have to reverse it.
Currently, all combined natural sinks for carbon (oceans, lakes, and land) on earth capture and sequester about 4 gigatons of carbon a year. But, emissions are c. 8 gigatons of carbon a year. The atmospheric carbon load is growing by c. 4 gigatons of carbon per year. You can trim on the 8 that is being put in, that's part one.
Part two now has to take effect, where you have to have something that increases the sinks to reach closer to 8, and has to surpass it to reverse the amount of carbon in the atmosphere already. I don't know if plant-life alone can do that upon second thoughts. It accounts for about 1-2 gigatons of carbon storage a year.
Look, I may be wrong, but that to me makes logical sense.
Last edited by irritant; 09-05-18 at 02:49 AM.
cmangle (09-05-18)
Thala Dan (09-05-18)
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