Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 25

Thread: Ace Tone Guitar Amplifier

  1. #1
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Mid North Coast NSW . Australia
    Age
    62
    Posts
    1,805
    Thanks
    993
    Thanked 327 Times in 222 Posts
    Rep Power
    277
    Reputation
    4457

    Default Ace Tone Guitar Amplifier

    A mate of mine dropped this off to me saying I could have it.
    Ace Tone - Model : Guts Ace.

    At switch on, the speaker immediately sucks in then about 1/4 sec later violently pops forward.
    The large grey cap is 3 in one.
    Where should I start on this one ?






    Last edited by loopyloo; 13-06-18 at 08:45 PM.



Look Here ->
  • #2
    Senior Member
    Reschs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Outside a few schooners
    Posts
    2,430
    Thanks
    470
    Thanked 1,319 Times in 669 Posts
    Rep Power
    512
    Reputation
    16678

    Default

    Does it actually work ?
    If so it is just poor design and occurs as the supply rails start up.
    If no go, then we look.
    Is it a +/- supply rail and are both fuses ok ? None visable.

  • The Following User Says Thank You to Reschs For This Useful Post:

    loopyloo (14-06-18)

  • #3
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Mid North Coast NSW . Australia
    Age
    62
    Posts
    1,805
    Thanks
    993
    Thanked 327 Times in 222 Posts
    Rep Power
    277
    Reputation
    4457

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Reschs View Post
    Does it actually work ?
    If so it is just poor design and occurs as the supply rails start up.
    If no go, then we look.
    Is it a +/- supply rail and are both fuses ok ? None visable.
    Just has the one fuse on the back.
    I might just install a separate switch for the speaker to stop the turn on thump.
    Yes it works, well most of it.
    The reverb doesn't work. On the front you'll see two knobs marked Sustain and Reverb. I'm guessing they both work together on reverb because neither of them seem to do anything to the sound. Also, there's that trim on the back for reverb, and the reverb foot switch socket.
    So I assume you have to plug in a foot switch to turn on the reverb (I just shorted the socket wires) but that didn't work.
    What's the idea behind the reverb trim ?
    How do I test the spring unit ?

    The last three photos are of a mystery device connected to a loop from the mains transformer. What is it ?








    Last edited by loopyloo; 14-06-18 at 12:35 PM.

  • #4
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Mid North Coast NSW . Australia
    Age
    62
    Posts
    1,805
    Thanks
    993
    Thanked 327 Times in 222 Posts
    Rep Power
    277
    Reputation
    4457

    Default

    The reverb spring unit seems to be ok. Input and output coils both measure around 200ohms.
    Rattling the springs produces no sound.
    I noticed that as well as the usual buzzing coming from the speaker when the guitar is quiet, is a regular ticking sound, about once per second. Wonder what that is ?
    Turning any knobs has no change on the ticking by either loudness or rate.

    PS : I take it back, rattling the springs does produce sound so reverb output transducer is sending signal through the amp to the speaker.
    The problem appears to be that there's no signal being fed to the reverb input.
    Also Sustain knob does not do anything to alter the sound. I'm not even sure how it's supposed to operate.
    Needing help now.
    This board sends the signal to the reverb input :
    Last edited by loopyloo; 14-06-18 at 08:24 PM.

  • #5
    Senior Member
    Reschs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Outside a few schooners
    Posts
    2,430
    Thanks
    470
    Thanked 1,319 Times in 669 Posts
    Rep Power
    512
    Reputation
    16678

    Default

    To solve the thump, use a speaker protector kit from Silicon Chip. Get from Altronics.

    Reverb and Sustain are two different effects and are separate units.

    The Reverb knob on the front panel should send the signal to the springs via the driver board.
    Try open circuiting the external footswitch jack to check the Reverb.
    It maybe short circuit off and open circuit on.


    As for the odd device, it may be the rectifier.
    Hard to tell where in transformer wiring it occurs.
    Is it primary, 240V, or secondary, low voltage ?

  • The Following User Says Thank You to Reschs For This Useful Post:

    loopyloo (14-06-18)

  • #6
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Mid North Coast NSW . Australia
    Age
    62
    Posts
    1,805
    Thanks
    993
    Thanked 327 Times in 222 Posts
    Rep Power
    277
    Reputation
    4457

    Default

    Yeah the reverb operates with the footswitch open, found that out. Stands to reason if you want reverb without a footswitch.
    Even if reverb and sustain are separate, I'm thinking they're both not working because of a single fault.
    The signal to the reverb input goes directly from the board. It then returns to the pot and on to the other board. If I rattle the springs with my fingers, it makes crashing sounds out the speaker so the reverb to amp path is fine but it has no effect on guitar sounds because they are not transmitting to the reverb input.
    Actually one thing I'll check tomorrow (just out of curiosity) is if the finger plucking crashing sounds are altered by adjusting the pot. Didn't think of that today.

    Oh and that device. It's not a rectifier. It just sits in between the yellow wire that loops out of the transformer and back in again. Dunno what it's connected to. The thinner red and black wires on it both go to the large grey cap.


    Update :
    Now I'm getting signal on the reverb input. Dunno why but I've had a lot of trouble just getting a good connection on my probe.
    But anyway the signal is pretty low I believe. I'd say the board is not giving it enough gain to influence the reverb springs.

    Had my guitar body resting on the edge of the bench and holding the neck with my left hand, and trying to get probe connection on the reverb tank with my right. The bloody guitar slipped off the bench and dropped so that the tone knob hit the bench and sheered the pot shaft clean off. Lovely !
    Last edited by loopyloo; 15-06-18 at 02:11 PM.

  • #7
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Mid North Coast NSW . Australia
    Age
    62
    Posts
    1,805
    Thanks
    993
    Thanked 327 Times in 222 Posts
    Rep Power
    277
    Reputation
    4457

    Default

    I don't know why but it's working now.
    Nothing more to say except I put it back together and gave it a place in my music room.

  • #8
    Senior Member
    Reschs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Outside a few schooners
    Posts
    2,430
    Thanks
    470
    Thanked 1,319 Times in 669 Posts
    Rep Power
    512
    Reputation
    16678

    Default

    The device is the rectifier. AC from transformer and DC to main filter capacitor.
    It is a very old Selenium rectifier and does not look like the typical diode bridge.

    As for your problems, I suspect dirty pots.
    I suggest you lubricate all pots ( rotary controls ) with a specific cleaner.
    DO NOT USE WD40.

  • The Following User Says Thank You to Reschs For This Useful Post:

    loopyloo (15-06-18)

  • #9
    Premium Member
    hinekadon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    above ground level
    Posts
    305
    Thanks
    249
    Thanked 230 Times in 98 Posts
    Rep Power
    122
    Reputation
    4610

    Default

    or someone has already used crc/wd40 on it ?

  • #10
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Mid North Coast NSW . Australia
    Age
    62
    Posts
    1,805
    Thanks
    993
    Thanked 327 Times in 222 Posts
    Rep Power
    277
    Reputation
    4457

    Default

    Yes wd40 is no good for pots. I always use Inox, It's the best product I've used for lubing most electrical stuff.
    Although I can't rule out that the problem could have been caused by a scratchy pot, I have doubts because lubricating the pots was the first thing I did after opening it up.
    Doesn't matter anyway, it works now. I'm happy.

  • #11
    LSemmens
    lsemmens's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Rural South OZ
    Posts
    6,972
    Thanks
    5,839
    Thanked 3,724 Times in 1,893 Posts
    Rep Power
    1627
    Reputation
    65740

    Default

    @hinekadon be aware that there are many varieties of CRC. 5.56 is the most common and is definitely NOT recommended for electrical work whereas CRC 2.26 IS designed for just that purpose.
    I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...

  • #12
    Senior Member
    nomeat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Commonly found in a pantry or the bottom of a fridge, searching for grains, fermented or distilled
    Posts
    4,012
    Thanks
    1,058
    Thanked 1,854 Times in 1,136 Posts
    Rep Power
    873
    Reputation
    30578

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by loopyloo View Post
    Yes wd40 is no good for pots. I always use Inox, It's the best product I've used for lubing most electrical stuff.
    Although I can't rule out that the problem could have been caused by a scratchy pot, I have doubts because lubricating the pots was the first thing I did after opening it up.
    Doesn't matter anyway, it works now. I'm happy.
    Alarm bells are ringing here !!!
    You don't 'lubricate' pots, you CLEAN them!
    Inox is not a cleaner it is an oil to lubricate.

    Put oil on a pot's resistive surface and you have more or less stuffed it's conductive properties. Also any gunk on it surface will be collected some where.

    An electronic contact CLEANER is something totally different. It washes and rinses the gunk away from the contact surface and then dries out (hopefully) residue free.

    As for your faults, dirty pots and connector contacts are likely the cause. Ask Jaycar to recommend you a contact cleaner that can dissolve the oil you might have sprayed.
    Faults do not go away by themselves.
    Another likely fault are cracked solder joints caused from the speaker vibrations.
    You amp is not fixed just because you say it is working now.

    Could you also please use in future : to post images and just use the direct link of the images you uploaded so they show up directly in your posts. I have no idea what I am downloading on you mega links (even a jpg could have embedded malware) so I am not going to download them.
    Last edited by nomeat; 18-06-18 at 07:40 PM.
    $$$...Welcome to Australia where corruption is legalized...$$$

    The only group that does not have a lobby is the middle income taxpayer.

  • #13
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Mid North Coast NSW . Australia
    Age
    62
    Posts
    1,805
    Thanks
    993
    Thanked 327 Times in 222 Posts
    Rep Power
    277
    Reputation
    4457

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nomeat View Post
    Alarm bells are ringing here !!!
    You don't 'lubricate' pots, you CLEAN them!
    Inox is not a cleaner it is an oil to lubricate.

    Put oil on a pot's resistive surface and you have more or less stuffed it's conductive properties. Also any gunk on it surface will be collected some where.

    An electronic contact CLEANER is something totally different. It washes and rinses the gunk away from the contact surface and then dries out (hopefully) residue free.

    As for your faults, dirty pots and connector contacts are likely the cause. Ask Jaycar to recommend you a contact cleaner that can dissolve the oil you might have sprayed.
    Faults do not go away by themselves.
    Another likely fault are cracked solder joints caused from the speaker vibrations.
    You amp is not fixed just because you say it is working now.

    Could you also please use in future : to post images and just use the direct link of the images you uploaded so they show up directly in your posts. I have no idea what I am downloading on you mega links (even a jpg could have embedded malware) so I am not going to download them.
    Good quality pots are lubricated at the factory, even then they usually just use an oil. Just like sliding switch contacts, they should be lubed if you want them to last a long time. Inox is a very thin lubricant and therefore has a low viscosity, making it ideal for electrics. The more viscosity, like oil or worse like a grease, can tend to lift a contact off its mating surface.
    Inox does clean. That can be seen because the pot is not scratchy after spraying it.
    Inox is none conductive and recommended.
    I have used quite a few different contact cleaners and none of them usually work for long. It's the case that if a pot or switch gets to the point of needing cleaning, then soon after it will play up again and the item is considered to be wrecked and needs replacing. I have never had a failure after using Inox.

    Back when I was at the factory, I was asked to do experimental accelerated tests on lubricants for switch contacts because we had some that were not going the distance. Our switch contacts used either oil or a specialized grease but usually grease but I also had to compare to dry contacts. Dry contacts don't slide well and actually tend to bounce along as they move. This creates micro arcing which, little by little, burns the contact and its mate. It also cause the grease to harden from drying which would in turn lift the contact enough to add more resistance, then the burning really starts. The oil won over the grease. Inox fits the bill for pots.
    Have you ever tried Inox ? I think you might like it if you did. Anyway that's what I know and I will keep using it.
    Have a look here :

    As far as the amp goes, I'll wait until it mucks up before I bother going inside again. I'm now in the process of cleaning up the outside of it and repairing a little split in the speaker.

    Oh and my Mega links can't have any viruses. They're just my photos directly loaded by me. As I stated in an earlier post, I forgot how I posted photos before so I just thought I'd use my Mega account. No worries though, I will use postimg in future.
    Last edited by loopyloo; 19-06-18 at 03:01 PM.

  • The Following User Says Thank You to loopyloo For This Useful Post:

    Onefella (22-06-18)

  • #14
    Senior Member
    bob_m_54's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Newcastle, Australia
    Posts
    1,509
    Thanks
    686
    Thanked 686 Times in 433 Posts
    Rep Power
    360
    Reputation
    10878

    Default

    Use contact cleaner on the pots, rotating them vigorously, then spray with Servisol Contact cleaner and lube:
    . Forget all the WD40, Inox etc etc...

  • The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to bob_m_54 For This Useful Post:

    hinekadon (20-06-18),nomeat (20-06-18)

  • #15
    Senior Member
    nomeat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Commonly found in a pantry or the bottom of a fridge, searching for grains, fermented or distilled
    Posts
    4,012
    Thanks
    1,058
    Thanked 1,854 Times in 1,136 Posts
    Rep Power
    873
    Reputation
    30578

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by loopyloo View Post
    Good quality pots are lubricated at the factory, even then they usually just use an oil. Just like sliding switch contacts, they should be lubed if you want them to last a long time. Inox is a very thin lubricant and therefore has a low viscosity, making it ideal for electrics. The more viscosity, like oil or worse like a grease, can tend to lift a contact off its mating surface.
    Inox does clean. That can be seen because the pot is not scratchy after spraying it.
    Inox is none conductive and recommended.
    I have used quite a few different contact cleaners and none of them usually work for long. It's the case that if a pot or switch gets to the point of needing cleaning, then soon after it will play up again and the item is considered to be wrecked and needs replacing. I have never had a failure after using Inox.

    Back when I was at the factory, I was asked to do experimental accelerated tests on lubricants for switch contacts because we had some that were not going the distance. Our switch contacts used either oil or a specialized grease but usually grease but I also had to compare to dry contacts. Dry contacts don't slide well and actually tend to bounce along as they move. This creates micro arcing which, little by little, burns the contact and its mate. It also cause the grease to harden from drying which would in turn lift the contact enough to add more resistance, then the burning really starts. The oil won over the grease. Inox fits the bill for pots.
    Have you ever tried Inox ? I think you might like it if you did. Anyway that's what I know and I will keep using it.
    Have a look here :

    As far as the amp goes, I'll wait until it mucks up before I bother going inside again. I'm now in the process of cleaning up the outside of it and repairing a little split in the speaker.

    Oh and my Mega links can't have any viruses. They're just my photos directly loaded by me. As I stated in an earlier post, I forgot how I posted photos before so I just thought I'd use my Mega account. No worries though, I will use postimg in future.

    You got some things here seriously mixed up.

    Pots do not need lubrication. They have a graphite surface that acts naturally as a lubrication. Adding any oils on their surface stuffs them up. Tiny particles of graphite can coagulate with the oil and external dust will accumulate on the oily surface. The oil itself is an insulator.

    Switches are a totally different matter and you will see on your Inox weblink that there is no mention of using it on potentiometers.

    I have used Inox for decades but I will never let any get inside pots.

    If I would have ever used oil on the faders in the mixer consoles in the audio studio I worked in Cologne (Germany) I would have immediately got sacked !
    Last edited by nomeat; 20-06-18 at 12:20 AM.
    $$$...Welcome to Australia where corruption is legalized...$$$

    The only group that does not have a lobby is the middle income taxpayer.

  • The Following User Says Thank You to nomeat For This Useful Post:

    loopyloo (21-06-18)

  • #16
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    148
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 38 Times in 34 Posts
    Rep Power
    89
    Reputation
    675

    Default

    I think the question is why do pots become scratchy? Some pots use nichrome. Why does Inox work? It does, also on mom switches so it def cleans.

  • The Following User Says Thank You to Tom Mix For This Useful Post:

    loopyloo (21-06-18)

  • #17
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Mid North Coast NSW . Australia
    Age
    62
    Posts
    1,805
    Thanks
    993
    Thanked 327 Times in 222 Posts
    Rep Power
    277
    Reputation
    4457

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bob_m_54 View Post
    Use contact cleaner on the pots, rotating them vigorously, then spray with Servisol Contact cleaner and lube:
    . Forget all the WD40, Inox etc etc...
    Nah Inox is not in the same category as wd40. Its lubricant is lanolin based not petroleum and doesn't dry out.
    Last edited by loopyloo; 21-06-18 at 01:15 AM.

  • #18
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Mid North Coast NSW . Australia
    Age
    62
    Posts
    1,805
    Thanks
    993
    Thanked 327 Times in 222 Posts
    Rep Power
    277
    Reputation
    4457

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Mix View Post
    I think the question is why do pots become scratchy? Some pots use nichrome. Why does Inox work? It does, also on mom switches so it def cleans.
    They become scratchy when the internal wiper starts to wear through the carbon track.
    A pot wiper is generally a thin flat metal sheet with one end pressed into a spoon shape for the contact. I have seen pots so worn that the spoon has a hole in the bottom of it which creates a circular cutting edge. The pot will die forever soon after that happens.
    Last edited by loopyloo; 21-06-18 at 02:07 PM.

  • #19
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Mid North Coast NSW . Australia
    Age
    62
    Posts
    1,805
    Thanks
    993
    Thanked 327 Times in 222 Posts
    Rep Power
    277
    Reputation
    4457

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nomeat View Post
    You got some things here seriously mixed up.

    Pots do not need lubrication. They have a graphite surface that acts naturally as a lubrication. Adding any oils on their surface stuffs them up. Tiny particles of graphite can coagulate with the oil and external dust will accumulate on the oily surface. The oil itself is an insulator.

    Switches are a totally different matter and you will see on your Inox weblink that there is no mention of using it on potentiometers.

    I have used Inox for decades but I will never let any get inside pots.

    If I would have ever used oil on the faders in the mixer consoles in the audio studio I worked in Cologne (Germany) I would have immediately got sacked !
    No nothing's mixed up at all.
    Pots DO need lubrication. The carbon element in a pot is quite hard and is a poor lubricant. Using a light lubricant does not affect the electrical characteristics of a pot (or switch) except to enhance the conductivity between contacts. This has been proven with lower and much more stable millivolt readings.
    Inox is not like an oil and it never dries out. WD40 will clean a pot but when it drys it leaves crystals on the surface which add to the wear factor. I too would not use oil in a pot.

    Look here :





    If you had used Inox on those pots in the studio, they might have thanked you.

  • The Following User Says Thank You to loopyloo For This Useful Post:

    Onefella (22-06-18)

  • #20
    Senior Member
    bob_m_54's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Newcastle, Australia
    Posts
    1,509
    Thanks
    686
    Thanked 686 Times in 433 Posts
    Rep Power
    360
    Reputation
    10878

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by loopyloo View Post
    Nah Inox is not in the same category as wd40. Its lubricant is lanolin based not petroleum and doesn't dry out.
    It does go sticky though. Not sure what the lube is in the Servisol, but it doesn't seem to go sticky, and I have got a couple of amps I did 3 and 4 years ago, that still are working OK. I've used it for at least 20 years and probably longer, and never had a problem with it.

  • The Following User Says Thank You to bob_m_54 For This Useful Post:

    loopyloo (21-06-18)

  • Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

    Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •