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Thread: The great plastic bag debate

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    Quote Originally Posted by PZ. View Post
    I found the 15c bags were better and easier to carry because they didn't spaghettify my fingers like the freebies did. Chances are I'll reuse them for the next few weeks so the overall output of plastic disposal from me would be less I guess.

    Apart from that I can't see any difference for the environment. Still, happy to adapt
    According to news reports, you will have to use them 178 times or something for it to match the damage one single use bag causes (basically nothing)

    Woolworths is giving the 15 cent bags away for nothing this week, so make sure you turn up with none.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nomeat View Post
    LOL, well if that is true then it is certainly not the first time that government incentives use Tax money to fund the rich, in this case the richest Aussie in 2017:[
    I mentioned Visyboard in my original post. Anthony Pratt's money came from his father Richard, its not like he has made it.

    I agree that this plastic bag ban will make a few more people rich, so there is definitely money in 'recycling' but this time it is not subsidised by the government but directly from the consumer.
    Thats pretty much what I said that you quoted. Footed by the taxpayer. A simple swap to free biodegradable bags would have caused no problems, and no costs to shoppers. Instead it has been turned in to a money making exercise by supermarkets, ala "self service" style.


    Germany managed to deal with it already in the 1970's and their world didn't collapse and are still Europe's powerhouse today.
    Its pretty much an ethic/migrant slum these days with a government teetering on collapse. Its not something I would say is a shining example of a place you would want to be. We don't need to follow the conga line of countries going to shit.

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    The wife wont come to woolies with me, as I do whats pictured, I do get some funny looks from the staff, but F$%kem the maggots make more than enough to cover bags in their profits

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    Thumbs down Home Delivery

    Hi all,

    I rely on Home delivery and I was extremely pissed off when Woolies decided to charge $1.00 per delivery for plastic bags.

    I am now the proud owner of one Woolies bag which has cost me a dollar.

    Who said the big boys aren't making a profit out of this plastic bag scam.

    SHIT - MORE LIES

    NOT HAPPY JAN

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    I think back to the days before 'single use' bags became available and how we used to scramble for the cartons the items came in and packed our purchases in them.
    Shopping fortnightly with 3 kids meant at least 2 trolleys if the Supermarket had good prices on all three commodities like Meat, Vegetables/Fruit and canned or packaged Groceries.
    Brown paper bags were available but for cans, bottles and some large cartons, I preferred using cardboard cartons.
    Disposing of the cartons was never a problem in winter as we burnt them.....Summer time they were torn up and binned.
    There have been times at the checkout that I have opted to put the items into the Cart sans bags, particularly bottles as they pass the scanner.
    To achieve this it does help if there are 2 of you there, even if you have already loaded the approach belt.

    There is no rule, law or regulation requiring you to 'bag anything' after it passes the scanner so if a store got too snotty about it, tipping the contents of the Cart on the floor and walking out leaving them to clean up the mess wouldnt bother me.
    I stand unequivicably behind everything I say , I just dont ever remember saying it !!

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    Basically admitting recyclables go to landfill.


    PS Rick, love it , you must be famous


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    Hello, im mello, new to the site, but an old slowhand at news and sports, ex DTV



    seems ColesWorth have some allies in the war on plastic ... same sorts of methods - indoctrination, brainwashing, extortion, kidnapping and slavery, and asking for you to pay for it ...



    a terrorist organisation that believes a plastic bag is more deadly to humans than they are has to be some sort of joke, Shirley

    Last edited by mello yello; 04-07-18 at 01:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by admin View Post
    PS Rick, love it , you must be famous

    Bastards stole my meme, can I sue for that?
    Nearly every product sold in a supermarket is wrapped in plastic, so what are they going to do to fix that issue?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    Bastards stole my meme, can I sue for that?
    Nearly every product sold in a supermarket is wrapped in plastic, so what are they going to do to fix that issue?
    They're not...it's a bunch of bullsh1t.

    We've had this lunacy in the ACT for a long time. The trouble was that the contract to produce 15¢ bags was let to someone who produced bags that were not actually biodegradable.

    My extended family has collected ordinary bags for us, and any time we travel to Queensland we bring back a heap of them. I get a furious look from the ignorant when I use them. I love it.

    It's green/ALP driven hypocritical crap.

    And Tiny....yeah...what about the plastic that the goods are wrapped in....landfill.
    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by admin View Post
    Its pretty much an ethic/migrant slum these days with a government teetering on collapse. Its not something I would say is a shining example of a place you would want to be. We don't need to follow the conga line of countries going to shit.
    Can't see some western parts of Sydney much better + the future of our economy is not looking that good either according the the RBA and some local economists.
    Trump causing most of the shit that might happen to Europe/World economy but all these media reports including the one you posted must be treated with a grain of salt.

    If everybody uses the veggie plastic bags to replace shopping plastic we will soon see them removed too.

    Don't even think about the bacteria on those rubber bands at the check out when you then have to place fresh items directly on them.

    BTW we actually wash our cloth bags occasionally.

    I am actually more paranoid about having to touch the shopping trolly handles, so I am fare less worried about our cloth bags.
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  • 04-07-18, 12:41 AM

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    Quote Originally Posted by admin View Post
    According to news reports, you will have to use them 178 times or something for it to match the damage one single use bag causes (basically nothing)

    Woolworths is giving the 15 cent bags away for nothing this week, so make sure you turn up with none.
    My next trick will be based on the logic in the Al-Shabib video. I'll go to ColesWorth and stow my goodies in a makeshift burka

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    Quote Originally Posted by PZ. View Post
    My next trick will be based on the logic in the Al-Shabib video. I'll go to ColesWorth and stow my goodies in a makeshift burka
    Watch out for the Fez -

    Im surprised they still have a supermarket standing

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    COLES and Woolworths stand to make roughly $71 million in gross profit by replacing free lightweight plastic bags with heavier 15 cent options.


    That’s according to an analysis by Queensland University of Technology retail expert Dr Gary Mortimer, who argues that the bag ban will be a “windfall for the supermarkets, but it won’t do much for the environment”.


    “These bags are factored into the cost of doing business for these supermarkets,” Dr Mortimer wrote in a piece for The Conversation.


    “There are costs beyond just the bags themselves, such as the costs associated with sourcing and negotiating with packaging suppliers, procuring them, shipping and warehousing them, and distributing them to stores only to then give them away.


    “Supermarket margins are already feeling the strain of price deflation. These businesses are generally making less than 6 cents in the dollar, so the opportunity to phase out this cost certainly makes good business sense.”


    Dr Mortimer estimated Coles and Woolworths previously gave away a combined 5.7 billion bags a year at 3 cents per bag, working out to a total cost of $171 million. Under the new scheme, he predicts they will use just 1.18 billion of the heavier bags at a cost of $106.1 million.


    “While retailers stand to pocket this saving, the switch to stronger, multi-use plastic bags brings with it its own costs,” he said. “To begin with, the bags alone cost more — 9 cents each — and also have associated procurement costs.


    “In turn, while the new re-usable bag may cost more than the thinner single-use bag, fewer will be used and therefore ordered. Retailers can expect to see a reduction in these packaging costs.


    “Selling these new bags at 15 cents each effectively creates another revenue stream potentially adding up to $71 million in gross profit.”


    Retail analyst Geoff Dart from DGC Advisory disagreed, saying he didn’t believe the supermarkets would profit from the bag ban. “In fact quite the opposite,” he said.


    “We need to keep in mind that a significant number of shoppers at Coles and Woolies also shop at Aldi, where they’re used to bringing their own bags or grabbing an empty box in the aisles,” he said.


    “Backlash has not been as bad as some may think and that means shoppers are adjusting and won’t have a need to pay for a bag. Also consider the cost for Coles and Woolies to buy and stock the stores with bags — heavy and light — and additional handling by shop staff to assist.


    “At the very least, unprepared shoppers will reduce their purchases per visit to avoid cost and multi-shop — that is, come back for a second shop prepared, or, as most Coles and Woolies are near fresh fruit and veg stores and butchers who are still providing bags, go there first.


    “For how long, who knows? Shoppers and consumers have choices and they’re not [sitting still] when it comes to managing the family budget and finding alternatives.”


    University of Tasmania marketing lecturer Dr Louise Grimmer said she was disappointed that single-use plastic bags had “been effectively replaced with much thicker bags that are often not reused for shopping and that are going to end up in landfill in the same way that the single-use bags did”.


    “At least with the single-use bags they could be reused, for example as bin liners,” she said. “If retailers were serious about trying to be sustainable, as many of them are now claiming, they would be offering a small discount for shoppers who bring their own bags.”


    Dr Grimmer said this would offset some of the criticism that the supermarkets now stand to make money from the 15-cent bags.


    “I don’t have a problem with retailers making a profit, that is how businesses stay in the game,” she said.


    “[But] if retailers and supermarkets in particular are going to market themselves as being ‘green’ and working towards sustainable practices, then I would expect them to take the lead in totally banning all plastic bags for example and encouraging shoppers to bring their own bags.”


    She added that she hoped the backlash had been amplified by the media and social media and was not reflective of the true reaction.


    “I would be disappointed to think that so many of us can’t make a simple change to the way we shop and allowed this issue to make us so angry,” she said. “There are much bigger issues out there to be concerned about — just bring your own bags when you go shopping, it’s pretty simple.”


    According to Dr Mortimer, experience from other countries that had introduced a fee for lightweight plastic bags, including the US and UK, showed while there was an initial reduction in bag usage, customers soon simply started paying the charge.


    “Simply charging for a plastic bag, without directing these funds into environmental programs, does not necessarily resolve the problem,” he said. “Shoppers slowly return to old habits, governments and retailers stop educating consumers and reusable bags soon make their way into waterways and landfill.”


    Neither Woolworths nor Coles would say how much profit they will make from the plastic bag ban.


    “The pricing of our 15 cent reusable plastic bag reflects the cost of supply and associated operational costs,” a Woolworths spokesman said.


    “We also have the Bag for Good for customers which is a bag for life. It costs 99 cents and when it gets damaged, we will replace it for free, no matter when a customer bought it from us. Any money made from the sale of the Bag for Good will help fund the Junior Landcare Grants program.”


    Woolworths will continue to offer customers in NSW, Victoria, Western Australia and Queensland free reusable bags until Sunday to smooth the transition. The supermarket announced the move last week following customer complaints.


    A Coles spokeswoman said: “We have based the prices for our bags on the cost of supply and operational costs. We have the Better Bag, which is made from 80 per cent recycled material and is bigger, thicker and more durable than single-use plastic bags.


    “Better Bags can be used multiple times and when customers have finished with the Better Bag, it can be recycled through the REDcycle bins available at all Coles supermarkets. Better Bags will cost 15 cents.”


    Coles has also launched a range of Community Bags designed by schoolchildren across Australia. The range includes a $1 tote bag, a $2 shoulder bag, a $2.50 chiller bag and a $3 jute bag. A portion of the sales of the bags will be donated to Clean Up Australia, Little Athletics Australia, SecondBite and Guide Dogs Australia.


    As of Sunday, single-use plastic bags have been banned in all states and territories except NSW and Victoria. The supermarkets took the initiative by removing them from their entire store networks, with Woolworths getting in 10 days early on June 20.


    Despite roughly three-quarters of shoppers claiming to support the ban, the move has sparked a customer backlash, with the retail workers’ union describing the phenomenon as “plastic bag rage”. In one extreme case, a staff member at Woolworths in WA was “strangled” by an angry customer.

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    it seems every time we have a major nationwide event things just go pear shaped - bad planning, underestimates, or just plain head in the sand incompetence, it all doesnt bode well for Australian leadership - currently the list is
    -Census night
    -World Cup and OPTUS debacle
    -plastic bags being replaced by plastic bags, and having to pay for them

    one solution? throw more money into the bonfire



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    Quote Originally Posted by enf View Post
    I get a furious look from the ignorant when I use them. I love it.
    Oh that's cool. I've got hundreds of them. My new quest is to use them in the supermarkets and when I next go to Canberra I'm going to take a pocket full of them and fill them up.
    Yes I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.

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    Look...this whole plastic fanspastic saga is overblown and politicised.

    50 million years from now whomever dominates the planet (lets call them the Dudes) will be digging into the earth and discover a new power source. They'll call it Gblerg. Gblerg will be the end result of compressed landfills and plasticised flotsam that has been compressed by the earths natural bowel movements for millions of years. This substance will be powerful, sought after and highly prised.

    The oceans will again be pristine, until after almost all known sources are exploited, the Dudes discover small pockets of Gblerg that are difficult to reach under the ocean floor. Mining of these will probably cause effluent to spew out and create the sort of problems that we are experiencing now.

    As Mufasa explained to his son in The Lion King, it will be just one more episode of the great circle of life.

    Bags will be bags.
    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

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    So the plastic in the distant future will be the new gold enf.

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    Who knows what a Million years of Evolution will produce..........
    I stand unequivicably behind everything I say , I just dont ever remember saying it !!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    So the plastic in the distant future will be the new gold enf.
    He's an ideas man

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    Quote Originally Posted by admin View Post
    He's an ideas man
    Tell him he's dreamin!

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