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Thread: Toyota PDF - Band-Aid fix or Shifting the liability to the owner?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by oceanboy View Post
    Wow, this is an interesting move for such a giant of the automotive industry
    You choose when your DPF regenerates with a switch

    "This spec update comes on top of the ability to option the Toyota Landcruiser Prado without a rear tyre." Love the comments about this like is it the left or right roflmao



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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyPatrol View Post
    When I was at the dealership we would regularly get diesel Subarus that would block the DPF even on the run up and down to Falls Creek! They would either limp or be towed into the dealership where they would do a manual DPF burn which would take about 30mins. It would rev the engine quite high to get the DPF hot enough to do a burn. Smoke would be everywhere.

    They also had problems with the NS Pajero DPF's but that seemed to be more to do with owners getting their vehicles services at other places other than the dealer and them not using the correct oil! I wonder if this is part of the Toyota 2.8l DPF issue?

    Be buggered if I had to sit on the side of the road waiting for a manual DPF burn in the Toyota. But the problem is people buy them for putting around town and it's not just Toyota but all diesels with DPF's.

    On a side note there was something about VW stopping producing diesel engines. It's just getting too hard to meet emissions requirements.

    I have a Ranger with the 3.2l engine and when I was shopping around for a dual cab one of my first questions was does it have a DPF. Sadly the MY17 Ranger that came out in Oct 2016 now has a DPF I will be hanging on to this one for a while now...

    ....Leroy
    It's a very confused situation, Leroy.

    On one hand you have this:

    Nissan to phase out diesel cars in Europe
    Japanese carmaker will cease to launch diesel passenger vehicles from 2021




    and this:

    Toyota will stop selling diesel cars in Europe this year
    Commercial vehicles aren't included, but it's still a significant shift.




    And, on the other hand:

    Volkswagen Is Dreaming If It Thinks Diesel's Coming Back

    That's the only conclusion to draw from comments by Volkswagen AG's boss on Monday that diesel cars would soon enjoy a "renaissance" as people rediscover the merits of a discredited technology.


    Strangely enough, after calling diesel a "discredited technology" the article goes on to say:

    He's right that some diesels on sale since 2015 (known as the Euro VI) emit few dangerous nitrogen oxide pollutants. Indeed, various independent tests show Volkswagen's latest models are among the cleanest. Diesel cars tend to pump out less planet-warming carbon dioxide than petrol vehicles, which was the whole point of selling millions of them in the first place.
    Hardly sounds like "discredited technology" to me.

    There's no doubt that the use of internal combustion engines (of any fuel type) in our overcrowded city environments is going to have to have limits in the future.

    But outside the city environment, it's difficult to see what the panic is all about.

  • #23
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    I find it really hard to believe that the current Toyota 2.8D is not breaking some Australian Law regarding the white smoke belching out of them????

    Really... This is Professional Industry Standard in 2018?

    This taken from a Hilux forum:

    Thats what DPF's do when they fill and clog and haven't burn't out/off
    Been through all this stuff before with Kenworth trucks since 2011 with the Hot Cummins engine.
    Anyone with a DPF fitted , get used to it , if you don't do constant highway miles , It will never burn off and clear itself .
    And if you have a manual burn off button , I can't see it doing anything except wasting time and fuel as it will never generate enough heat to do it.
    The truck DPF filters last around 200,000 klms , less around town stop start , from memory was about $8k to replace one , correct me if I'm wrong.
    And they are a huge size canister , same size as a stack muffler mounted underneath the chassis.
    With the tiny engines and turbos of modern 4x4's Im only guessing how long they will last before you have to replace it if you don't run it flat out all day.
    They should have gone the Ad Blue route .
    A DPF burnoff is when you have to stop and sit in neutral before the truck derates . Its spins the turbo up to high revs to burn off all the crap.
    Ive had them last from 20 - 50 minutes And thats with a big motor with a big turbo . As painful as it is , if I didn't the engine would shut down , and go into limp mode and stop .
    Last edited by ol' boy; 09-08-18 at 02:13 PM.
    If u want to go on an expedition get a Land Rover, if u want to come home from an expedition get a Landcruiser!

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    So after my dealership experience you can see why I was keen to make sure whatever I updated the patrol with didn't have one.

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    Something to be said for the old BJ40.
    I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...

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    Just one of many vids from John on this subject
    If u want to go on an expedition get a Land Rover, if u want to come home from an expedition get a Landcruiser!

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    I gather from the above comments Fords run Adblue and not dpf's??
    There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Madness"

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    Quote Originally Posted by allover View Post
    I gather from the above comments Fords run Adblue and not dpf's??
    Ford Ranger / Everest have DPF's




    This is interesting also

    Last edited by ol' boy; 10-08-18 at 08:51 AM.
    If u want to go on an expedition get a Land Rover, if u want to come home from an expedition get a Landcruiser!

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    Quote Originally Posted by oceanboy View Post
    I find it really hard to believe that the current Toyota 2.8D is not breaking some Australian Law regarding the white smoke belching out of them????.
    Some of the modern diesels that I have followed would fail a roadworthy inspection. Wouldn't you love getting a defect notice on a two week old car?

    From

    How much smoke defines a smoky vehicle?
    The legislation defines a smoky vehicle as one which continuously emits visible smoke for 10 seconds or more.
    Are diesel vehicles exempt?
    Diesel-engined vehicles are not exempt. The Regulations apply to all cars and motorcycles, and all trucks and buses with a gross vehicle mass of less than 4.5 tonnes. Vehicles can be reported regardless of the engine type or even whether they are going up a hill.

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    Im going through all this at the moment , with my almost 2 year old Prado 2.8
    I had heard about all the DPF issues prior to buying it but i only drive 15,000 klm a year so i wasnt too concerned.

    Ive been monitoring the Exhaust Gas and DPF temperatures using a Scanguage 2 and can see that EGT is usually around 300-350 and DPF is about the same under most conditions. When a burn takes place the DPF rises to around 730deg thanks to post combustion injection of extra fuel , and a 5th injector mounted above the turbo to add extra fuel again. All was fine till the 30,000klm mark when i suspected the 5th injector has clogged up with soot and can no longer assist the burn process. Now the DPF temps are only about 600deg which is not hot enough to clean the DPF and so it clogs up and belches white smoke which is all the unatomised fuel.
    Its going to Toyota soon to have the DPF cleaned out properly - the process is a bit convoluted but involves them cleaning the 5th injector , DPF cleaning fluid squirted into a sensor hole , then a manual burn , then after all that they measure the pressure across the DPF element and if its still blocked up the unit gets replaced.

    I need to add here that each time the car does a DPF burn the fuel consumption increases , which is wonderful for the environment and negates the whole fuel saving concept of a diesel car in the first place!!
    a manual burn done more regularly may help with the clogging issue , and at the moment Toyota need to do one using thier Techstream software or you can program the Scanguage to do one for you. A dash switch is not fitted to older models but the new ones have it factory fitted.
    Once the car is out of warranty and if the DPF plays up again i will be boring a 30mm hole up the middle of it , then fitting a DPF emulator. end of problem.

    so far Toyota have been ok about the whole thing and i think they will still cover issues outside warranty provided the issue is mentioned while under warranty.

    I also laughed when i was in Melbourne last week and saw that the EPA themselves bought a new 2.8 Hilux!! wait till it starts smoking fellas!!!

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    You've given probably the best most detailed description of the issue I've heard from anyone
    If u want to go on an expedition get a Land Rover, if u want to come home from an expedition get a Landcruiser!

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    ive been across it for a while and learnt a lot and it has the potential to cost a lot , so thats when i take notice lol.

    besides the DPF , ive also had the entire timing chain mechanism replaced at 28,000klm , it was getting a rattle at start up which Toyota have released an upgraded timing chain kit for.

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    More info on the DPF, was thinking of getting an Everest Trend, hmm loosing interest
    There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Madness"

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    I looked at the Everest , and liked it , but was turned off when i found out they are built by a third party contractor in Thailand , not even related to Ford. And the Ford dealer in town is a real asswipe , couldnt trust them to fix a skateboard much less a troublesome car.
    Looked at the Colorado 7 , didnt like the POS engine sourced from VM in Italy , same clowns that supply the shitbox diesels used by Landrovers.
    Looked at the Pajero Sport , couldnt fault them mechanically but that arse end design shouldnt have been copied from a constipated elephant. Could have gone another Pajero LWB but that 4M series of diesels should be best used as boat anchors.

    wouldnt piss on anything sourced from Europe or owned by Fiat Chrysler group

    so Toyota it was . and so far they have been great with any warranty issues. Best aftermarket and import / online parts support of any vehicle ever made. Best rural dealer support of them all too. I do agree they have gone downhill quality wise in the last couple of models but they might learn from that and lift their game again.

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    when i found out they are built by a third party contractor

    THAT MAY BE AN ADVANTAGE
    There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Madness"

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    On web many complaints of rising level. oil dipstick caused by incomplete dpf. burnoffs, diesel in oil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oceanboy View Post

    Damn, I thought they were using Portable Document Format and had bought out Adobe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Mix View Post
    On web many complaints of rising level. oil dipstick caused by incomplete dpf. burnoffs, diesel in oil.
    yes thats correct . the injectors pump in extra fuel ( after the main combustion event ) to allow DPF burns , but this has the disadvantage of washing oil off the bores and ends up as undiluted diesel in the sump. Its only a small amount per burn but adds up over time. Toyotas fifth injector concept is better here ( for this dilution issue ) as the burn is less reliant on the post injection phase to increase temps.

    the other place raw fuel enters sumps is from injector pump seals , but thats always been the case.

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    And so it begins:

    Last edited by ol' boy; 02-08-19 at 04:25 AM.
    If u want to go on an expedition get a Land Rover, if u want to come home from an expedition get a Landcruiser!

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    I signed up for that class action a while back. I dont know if it will do any good though , the fundamental issue here is not the car itself , its the toothless lazy arse tiger of our government not having proper lemon laws in place to protect consumers. So even if there is is pressure put on toyota to fix the cars , they can sit back and say , well under Australian law we do not have to. so up yours!! It takes so long for any action to occur FFS .

    my car went back in last year for a DPF clean and the latest software updates , which helped for a while but then the issue returned as bad as ever. In March this year i showed the dealer dashcam footage of the billowing smoke clouds , they wanted the car for 3 days to do a DPF regen study , after which they replaced the DPF. I think the filter was worth around $3500 plus 8 hours labour to replace. the engine needs to be lifted slightly to get it out.

    Its funny how after all this time Toyota do not clean the 5th injector as a regular service item. Once this injector blocks up its starts the downhill chain of events which lead to DPF replacement. There are rumours of a new design for the injector which will solve the problem but i dont know how true that is. Once out of warranty I'll probably delete the DPF anyway , not sure yet.

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