I'm a Racist, Biggot and whatever else......
Came back from the supermarket with the mrs couple of hours ago. Gave $10 happily to the buy a bale appeal they had there for the farmers.
Sat down here and saw something about an Indonesian earthquake appeal. Yeah, feel sorry for them and all that but to be honest, I feel more sorry for the people right here that are doing it tough. They may not be Homeless (YET) or starving ( yet) but I do not believe that the stress, pressure and hardship they face is any less than the people that by and large have no tin or bark hut to live in.
I looked up the appeals going and there are a load of them for the earthquake appeal which have been got together in what? 3 days? Week? while our farmers here at home have been suffering for months. No doubt the Gubbermint will have money to give to the Indonesians that could well go to our taxpaying farmers here.
I'm in 2 Minds about what I saw with the red cross. They have an Australian branch with appeals for both the farmers and the earthquake. Sorry, I think as an AUSTRALIAN organization or taking frunds from here there priority ought to be LOCAL problems over and above anyone elses. To me, the earthquake appeal is taking funds pretty much directly from the farmers.... and every9ne else they could help and there is NO shortage of people doing it hard right here.
Seems every time something happens in indo and every other shiphole, we are there helping and giving them effing millions. Did we ever get a zac back from them for anything? Looking back through google, there are a bunch of earthquakes there going back and Millions from oz, gubbermint and private Donated. When we have floods and bushfires and earthquakes back when Newcastle got leveled, Did we get any overseas donations and if so, whom from? I don't know and thankfully never needed any assistance but as we always seem to be helping someone else out, just wondering who helps us out when we are in the shit?
One thing that did shit me and this is where I may be making my last post here, is the multiple Islamic and muslim appeals here going for the earthquake. Now obviously indo is a very muslimised Country but again, as these appeals are pulling money from oz, is it not biased to help one particular group based on religion rather than help the local farmers? Sure there are probably not a lot of farmers in oz that are muzlim but that's just highlighting the discrimination to me. I have seen talking heads for one of those Islamic organisations before saying they help everyone. If that's the case, where is the help the Aussie farmers appeal because I was not able to find it. What else do they do locally for Non muslims.... other to try and convert them that is?
I don't mind helping others where I can, in my last 2 neighborhoods I was well known to a lot of the oldies for doing odd jobs and fixing things and could pretty much get away with doing anything I wanted particularly in my younger days as all the oldies around loved me because I was always doing little things for them, BUT>>>> I think charity starts at home and one should have their own house in order before giving money to others.
The way I see it, there are plenty of kids here that could use some new clothes or the parents would be real glad of a food hamper now and then. There are people on the streets and it's not all their fault, there are people waiting for operations, trying to pay for medical treatment and the list goes on.
Seems to me that we have plenty of needy people right here before we go giving money away to those in other places and to be honest, often people like starving kids in Africa that I believe are a lost cause to start with. Sick to death of seeing that every time I turn on the box.
When I was a kid in kindergarten 40+ years ago I remember taking 2C and putting it in the stocking for the starving kids. WTF good did that actually do and achieve? From what I see and am told on the TV and in the media, there are more starving people now than ever. After 40, 50 ,???? years of donations and what must be Billions by now, the problem still isn't fixed and indeed got worse? To me, that could only be described as a complete and utter failure. You been trying to solve a problem for 40+ years and gone backwards.... FAIL!
What's more, seems they are still doing the same thing so why is the result going to be any different in the future?
Presumably when I was 5 Yo, some of that money I donated, went to kids of similar age. it is also logical to believe that some of that money fed those kids and saved them from starvation. Terrific. But then in order for there STILL to be starving kids however, those Kids I helped would have had to grow up and have Kids of their own just like I did and now we are at least the kids of my day being grandparents to the current generation of starving kids.
What happens now? We save those kids again and they go on, multiply and compound the problem? Feeding them is not working, at all. Perhaps they should be looking at some sort of birth/ population controll. If you can't feed the family at the table now, then clearly the last thing you need is more family wanting a feed.
As well as racist, biggoted and every other thing a leftiy would call me, I'm also a cold hearted mongerel and wonder whats the Point of those appeals. by all means help them but feeding them isn't the soloution on it's own. Neither is giving them clothing, education and all the other things they have been doing because the problem has not been eliminated, it's got worse.
I'm left to wonder how much of these initiatives are real help and how much is keeping people in a job or lining their pockets. I have seen things that suggest some of these Charitys have a low percentage of funds that get to the people they are trying to help which is another thing that makes me very suspect on them.
What happens when I donate to farmers here, Families doing it tough, the sick , the homeless etc? Will the problem continue?
Most likley but it won't be perpetuated by the current people. Quite the opposite in many cases. The families with the arses out of their pants now have a great chance of getting on their feet and maybe they will be able to help others when they do. People needing medical treatment won't cause more to get sick and perpetuate the problem.
It will rain, likely flood, so the farmers will get over their bad patch IF they can survive it and not loose everything they have worked their guts out for.
The other thing that gets me ( just to make this rant a bit longer) is why do we give money to those OS in the first place? Would we not be doing better by everyone to send them say building materials? Take the money donated, go to Aussie suppliers and spend the money with them buying building materials or food or other locally produced goods and send that ( and have the army or whoever distribute it there so it don't end up in some dictators black market trade) so we support our own as well as helping those OS if people feel obliged to.
Seems to me if a place gets leveled, money isn't much good unless there is a shop standing to spend it in. If they can't get food or other things because they are wiped out or there is no transport etc.... seems a real moot point.
I'm no saint, I don't give a lot of money away to anyone and but what I do donate will sure as ship ALWAYS go to helping the endless number of worthy causes here. I feel sorry for others BUT I think everyone has a responsibility to keep their own back yard in order before worrying about the neighbors landscaping. When everything here is in order and we have fixed all the problems we have that need funding, By all means lets help others.
Until such time, I think the only responsible thing to do is look after our own in need first and foremost.
Spose I should go hide somewhere now and wait to be shot down in flames for my PC In-correctness.
| Look Here -> |
perhaps a thread on how to destroy the mad world of PC correctness is the answer
Godzilla (14-08-18)
Hi all,
Just to clarify my position on this thread, I used to work for Ausaid in the Solomons and PNG.
What I discovered is the biggest beneficiary of Ausaid monies is AUSTRALIA.
Just Google "Ausaid benefits Australia"
Buy cheap and pay often, - there is no substitute for stupidity.
You wipe your bum after each crap, why don't you clean your teeth after every meal?
There is no shame in being uneducated nor in being stupid.
The true shame lies in knowing that you are and doing nothing about it.
Only the living worry about dying.
To the tobacco addicts - Smoke more and die sooner, so I can breathe fresh air. Thank you.
Education is the only sure cure for religion
Yeah! Indonesia Spent last year close to 1 billion dollars on Russian SU 35 Fighter Jets. In stead of buying this for war they should spend more on the own people.
Why would you be shot down? You expressed your thoughts and opinion which you are entitled to do.Originally Posted by george65
Spose I should go hide somewhere now and wait to be shot down in flames for my PC In-correctness.
I am pretty sure there are millions of people who think the same and others who think otherwise.
You are also entitled not to donate to a cause you are not sure about. Either learn everything about the purpose and how money will be spent before donating or just walk passed and donate where your heart tells you.
BTW, donors are not expecting to get anything back otherwise it would not be donation but a loan.
DB44 (11-08-18)
Won't happen here unless you go over the top and personally insult members or obviously troll. All views are welcome. Even unpalatable ones to some members.....................................
Spose I should go hide somewhere now and wait to be shot down in flames for my PC In-correctness.
Our servers are hosted in the US (where, despite their problems, they actually still have freedom of speech) for that very reason.
It would probably be overrun with replies.......
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
DB44 (11-08-18)
Government don't give a shit about the farmers, they are hoping they all dry up and shrivel away, they think bringing in imported meat is a far cheaper option than helping the farmers situation. With all the army vehicles in Australia that could be laden with hay, those farmers could be out of trouble in a week.
It would be interesting to see a breakdown of where all the money raised in the mid 1980s from the "USA For Africa" campaign and all the others actually went and how much difference it made in the lives of ordinary people. I suspect much of it went to paying Western executive wages in the larger aid organisations and most of the rest went into the pockets of corrupt government officials and dictators in Africa. I hope I'm wrong.
This sounds really heartless, but I subscribe to the view "we feed them, they breed them". If we just throw money at feeding starving people and providing fresh drinking water, they'll just keep popping out more children until all the extra resources are consumed and then we have an even bigger problem than what we started with. The long term solution is to reduce the human population to properly sustainable levels - and to my mind, the secret to that is education. Educated people tend to have smaller families and are more likely to be able to successfully grow crops and/or trade their skills to feed that smaller family.
I just did a quick search as you suggested, and quickly browsed a few results (I'm about to go out for some lunch). I am extremely sceptical about charities in general and the whole non-profit sector, so I was hoping against hope that the search would show some real benefits clearly and concisely stated.
On this quick look I did not find that. What I found was a baffling mishmash of activist terms and politically correct buzzwords. I am familiar with the arguments that giving aid benefits Australia, usually in terms of the goodwill of those helped and the good opinion of the world community, or in things like preventing other countries from gaining influence, as for instance China in the Pacific. I have also heard it suggested that Australian companies may benefit in future contracts etc but I haven't seen any concrete examples.
So I would appreciate it if instead of unhelpful links you could explain simply and concisely say 5 ways Australian Aid provides concrete benefit to Australia. Even 1 or 2 would be nice.
You've presented your case with reason, so, why should anyone be offended, George. We might not all agree with your premise, but that is what healthy discussion is all about. In many cases building material and the like DO actually get sent to the needy countries so, some of the aid, DOES actually end up exactly where needed. The monies in aid might also be taken up in actually getting people and resources "on the ground" i.e. to an area where it is needed. A Herc isn't exactly a Cessna when it comes to flying and landing.
I think that we all agree that our Farmers need a LOT more help. In many of the areas that are wiped out by 'quake, famine etc, there is no infrastructure left to help their own. At least in Aus, our country is large enough that most disasters are localised and there are other structures (be they physical or organisational) to pick up the pieces. The problem with drought is, the poor farmers don't know when they are going to have the next rain. We may pump millions into our farms and it rain the next day, then everyone will be complaining about the money "wasted" on our "rich" farmers. Gubmint are damned if they do, and damned if they don't. If we bail out our farmers now, what's to say they won't need help in another 10 years? Maybe they won't. Now substitute farmers for Indonesia, or any other 3rd world country.
I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...
DB44 (11-08-18)
@Isemmens. You are of course correct that some money does get to where it is needed. Unfortunately that still leaves far too much of it that does not.
There are some people on here who I disagree with regularly. Hopefully rationally and without taking it too personally.
Nevertheless, if they posted a question asking for help with something I would do my best, and I expect the same applies vice versa. I'd like to think that if we ever did meet we could spend a pleasant afternoon arguing our respective points of view over a few beers. After all, we all have a certain amount in common just because we share an interest in at least some of the topics on this forum. It is one of the few forums that, having broken free of the tyranny of Google ads, is open for us to express our views very freely.
So far as helping farmers is concerned, my views are somewhat mixed. On the one hand, droughts and floods are a fact of life and an inherent risk of farming. A generation or so ago there were, at least anecdotally, some farmers who did extremely well and spent very freely during the good times who were very quick to hold out their hands when the bad times came. I came across a number of farmers back in the 80's and 90's who lived lavishly, sent their kids to the best private schools, drove expensive cars etc. who felt entitled to help to effectively maintain their lavish lifestyles when things went wrong. This begs the argument as to what funds a prudent farmer should be setting aside during the good times to tide them over in the bad?
On the other hand, I wonder these days if the smaller farmers at least ever have really good times. With all the middlemen taking a cut and the dominance of Coles and Woolworths exerting downward pressure on prices I suspect the small farmer is not really getting a fair share of the profits made and many are probably only marginally viable even in good times. The trend as I understand it is for ever larger farms increasingly owned by corporations. And, of course, our farmland is very much in demand from foreign investors. (Even foreign Governments. Why we allow foreign government controlled entities to acquire agricultural land here as part of their nations "food security" policy is beyond me. But that is another issue.) A business that prospers in good times may be able to survive the bad. But a business that is only marginal even in good times has little hope of surviving the bad times without assistance.
Overall I suppose it probably is worthwhile donating something to support our farmers, but this should not be a long term solution to the problem. Droughts etc. are a fact of life. Ideally we should have viable farms which make provision for bad times and need help only during truly exceptional events.
Last edited by DB44; 11-08-18 at 05:31 PM.
I feel sorry for Australian farmers as well and appreciate they have to work hard especially during draught seasons.
I also do not consider myself an expert on farming and how farmers run their business and hence I will be happy to be corrected on the following assumption.
From what I understand draughts are very regular occurrence in Australia and during the period farmers get some sort of subsidy from the government (read tax payers). Then in some cases the same tax payers are hit with higher prices anyway. I don't have big problems paying higher prices either as the government subsidy probably doesn't cover all extra costs farmers see during the season. My worry always that farmers do not fully benefit from the higher prices and some of the extra margin ends up in re-sellers and middle men pockets.
As I believe draught conditions are Australian regular occurrence my question is what farmers do to ease the burden?
How come some dry countries without water manage to supply half of the world with their strawberries, bananas and oranges by using drip irrigation. Why Australian farmers can't use the same system to grow feed?
Again - I am not an expert and simply would like to understand how it all works and what can be done to stop the continuous struggle.
Last edited by fromaron; 11-08-18 at 06:30 PM.
DB44 (11-08-18)
because I speak my mind and in everyday life, I have a real habit of upsetting people even when I'm trying not to.
On something like a forum, seems like a person is walking on egg shells. Got kicked off an electronics forum the other week because I raised concerns and questions with the Viability of electric cars. The greenwashed admin who claimed he was not kicked me off because he didn't like my attitude. Typical of the green lefties. No one else is allowed to have an opinion other than the correct one... Theirs!
It's fantastic ( and rare) to find a place like this where one can present differing opinions and question things.
I'm sure they will need help, Id say it almost gauranteed. Drought is usually broken by flood so they might need help in other ways. That's just the nature of the beast and always has been. Thing is, in the meantime they will be producing food we can trust and rely on. I don't want to eat anything that was fertilised with human crap like they do other places. These farmers Pay taxes here, spend their money here keeping people in work and companies afloat, why not give them a hand?If we bail out our farmers now, what's to say they won't need help in another 10 years?
Yeah there are rich farmers but that's not a fault on their part. you can't know hard work, good and sound business decisions and achievement. I don't know how assistance is handed out. Just because they have a bit of money I don't think they should be wiped out and not given anything till they are broke either.
Gubbermint has plenty of money to give loads of other people. I think farmers should be a priority to look after.
The difference I see with farmers and 3rd world countries is that the farming situation is temporary. This is an unusual if reoccurring situation. With the starving kids etc, Like I said, that's at least 50year continuous, ongoing never changed and never likely to either for the far foreseeable future.
I'm heartless too apparently.This sounds really heartless, but I subscribe to the view "we feed them, they breed them". If we just throw money at feeding starving people and providing fresh drinking water, they'll just keep popping out more children until all the extra resources are consumed and then we have an even bigger problem than what we started with. The long term solution is to reduce the human population to properly sustainable levels - and to my mind, the secret to that is education. Educated people tend to have smaller families and are more likely to be able to successfully grow crops and/or trade their skills to feed that smaller family.
The one thing poverty seems to inspire is breeding. We have it right here. Those in the poorer suburbs all seem to have 3 and 4 and more kids. Same in other First world pooer commounities and right down to the 3rd world. Your opine about feeding the starving so they can survive to breed is exactly how I see it. If they had Nipped blokes int the bal... bud when I was a kid and slowed the breeding and reduced the population, the situation would have had a chance of correction. Endlessly growing an already over populated area is not logical. People have been suffering with not enough food for decades. Giving them just enough to survive and reproduce is clearly not the way to cure the problem.
To the best of my limited knowledge there are a lot of educational programs that have been in place for some time. I don't think that is an answer short term though. If you live is what is basicaly a dessert devoid of resources, you could know all there is to know about farming or food production but if you don't have the basics for it.... Your Buggered.
I think it could take 10-20 years to let a lot of these places that are ravaged to come near recovering that's if they are even suitable places for food production in the first place.
I can see what's not working but what to do is something for smarter people than I to work out. I have heard it said many time that the problem is not lack of food but lack of money to buy food. I believe that as there are massive stockpiles in the first world and subsidies paid to farmers to keep producing stuff there is a glut of but many thousands of people that know nothing else. That being the case, what do you do for the poor to allow them to make money to buy the food that could be ramped up production wise in many cases anyway?
Again, too big a question for me and I would suspect the answer is nothing you can do. To stop perpetuating the problem, what do you do, Leave these people to stave to death?
Maybe, aren't there millions starving anyway and if you do feed them, won't there still be millions starving? Where does it stop and HOW do you put an end to it. Then again, do the powers that be really WANT to put an end to it or are there too many making good money from it?
At a minimum I think there needs to be significant sterilization. You want help, no worries, all we ask is you and or your partner be sterilized before hand. Of course if they don't want to, that is their choice to make but you provide for your own family.
You get to make your choices, we get to make ours.
DB44 (11-08-18)
Was only talking to a guy a work about this earlier in the week. He raises beef cattle and has been stocking up on buying truck loads of hay for some time. He managed his situation so that he should have enough feed for his cattle until spring. He said you don't hear about the farmers that manage and plan for the hard times only the ones that don't. He also said you don't hear about how much money they make when times are good!! It was an interesting conversation.
On a side note. I don't think the world can cope with the exploding population and all these aid agencies saving all these 3rd world countries. Look at all the Africans coming here. We save them so they can immigrate here? They live a different life over there and don't seem to value the new opportunities (or human life) that are given to them here. Granted it's not all of them but there seems to be a lot blowing their new opportunity. Then there are the courts pandering to these minorities letting them go because of their tough upbringing. They should be treated the same if they live here.
And then there are all the middle eastern immigrants that have their little enclaves like Lakemba and we give them heaps of $ but can't walk down the main street. Man I see lots of people weekly in by current job and some just can't afford to put the heater on during the day.
And Indonesia.. well do they really like us enough to appreciate all the aid they get?
I don't know....
....Leroy
Last edited by LeroyPatrol; 11-08-18 at 06:54 PM.
DB44 (11-08-18)
Worrying to me about being a taxpayer is a moot point.
Us Taxpayers foot the bill for the gummermint to BORROW money to give to OTHER COUNTRIES. If we can afford ( or not ) to do that, then I the taxpayer would much rather have my dollars spent right here helping farmers, homeless, those in need of medical treatment and all the other things people need help with before giving it to people in other places who'd Gubbermint is there to look after them. At very least, what ever they get here will be spent here and the money stays in the country.
The other thing with Taxpayers footing the bill for this or that is illogical. Your taxes don't go up because we helped farmers or gave the money to some foreign gubbermint who's people would kill the lot of us in a heat beat, it's always the same no matter how they piss it up the wall. No one comes round and say this year we did all those stupid things so your share is this, it's a set rate on income and that's it.
Really would be interesting to see what foreign aid we GET or are we just suckers whom are giving all the time and never get anything in return when we need it?
This is an interesting point. How does it go with other occupations?I came across a number of farmers back in the 80's and 90's who lived lavishly, sent their kids to the best private schools, drove expensive cars etc. who felt entitled to help to effectively maintain their lavish lifestyles when things went wrong.
I'd suggest that there are few as at risk from situations beyond ones control as farming. If one looks at high risk professions, what happens? If I think of cops, Fireys and others, I can recall these people being injured and collections being taken up for them. Is this not the same thing? I can also remember appeals for the families of people Killed in accidents or injured in sporting events and there were collections taken up for them... supposedly to help with bills and keep a roof over their heads. In the case of some sports people, that could only be really taken as keeping the family in a lifestyle similar to which they were accustomed because if they have a house worth a couple of mill, not like they are going to exactly be out on the street tomorrow.
I think there are parallels that can be drawn here.
If a person gets put off work, are they expected to sell their car and house and other assets to tide them over till they get another job or are there social security benifits in place to tide them over till they get back on their feet again?
I don't think it's a matter of IF the gubbermint have the money, I just think it s a matter of whom they choose to give it to and 9 times out of 10, our own come second which stinks in my book.
I wish!!!!!! After the accident that forced my retirement. I got NOTHING for several YEARS! I got a compensation payout (not a lot of money) and was "deemed" to have to live off it for several years. IOW I had to use it to live. I appealed the decision based upon the fact that I used that payout to purchase my current home. The official policy was "Sell your home, live on the proceeds and we'll give you rental subsidy to pay for someone elses home." The person who sent that letter out, rang us and apologised in that he had to send that letter out because that was govt policy. His advice was to bust a gut to hang onto our home, which we managed. I do know, now, how to live on very little. The farmers are in a different situation in that they have assets worth (in some cases) millions but no liquid assets. Because of their land holdings they are ineligible for social security payments. Most farmers do try and prepare for hard times, problem is, some of them have never had to deal with extended drought or flooding like we have seen in some areas. If you own a property on the edge of a desert, you'd expect to suffer from low rainfall and prepare for it, however, if you live in, say, the tropics, you will not expect the rain to fail. It can, and does, happen.If a person gets put off work, are they expected to sell their car and house and other assets to tide them over till they get another job or are there social security benifits in place to tide them over till they get back on their feet again?
I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...
An interesting insight. Not one to be proud of on the part of our Gubbermint either. Borrow money to give to other countries but this is the attitude toward our own? Stinks!
I had heard of this before a long time back but I was hoping these days things would have changed for the better. Seems I have way too much faith in the system.
I wonder what new immigrants/ Refugees honestly get? Do they get the handouts of gubbermint housing, cars and other assistance as fable goes or is the reality different?
It poses the question though, should the farmers be given assistance others don't get and why? I'm sure there are about 27 sides to that debate.
My position would be that repeating another wrong is not helpful. and again, if there is money to help others, there IS money to help our own.
First.
Well George65, here is a dilemma and a quandary for you to solve
I am not totally against this as i reckon half pollution is better than full pollution
ps, you forgot to mention whether you are a sexiest
Last edited by allover; 12-08-18 at 12:44 PM.
There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Madness"
And some more reading
There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Madness"
hinekadon (12-08-18)
Well maybe.ps, you forgot to mention whether you are a sexiest
In my Business I almost exclusively employed women because I believe they did a far better job and have a more suitable outlook than blokes.
I never go to a Bloke at the checkouts in the supermarket either if I can help it because I find they are slow as all hell compared to the women. I have a female Doctor. Two of them actually.
Does that make me sexist because I prefer one gender over the other in this regard or would that label only apply of I went against women?
I have a very low regard for elderly female drivers but then again, I really have nothing complimentary to say about elderly male drivers either. Maybe I'm " ageist " as well?
My wife may be sexist in the same regard. She is in management and prefers blokes in her field because she says they are far less bitchy and much less trouble than women. She often says If I could have a department of all men my job would be a dream. My wife prefers male Doctors and definitely will not see a female Dentist.
Are you a greenwashed leftist?
The articles you quote certainly are from that viewpoint and as such are of zero credibility to me because of their highly biased viewpoint. As always with the green washed media, they are trying to push a position rather than a neutral or balance article that allows people to make up their own minds.
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