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Thread: VAST Altec DSD4121 HDD and dish suitability

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    Default VAST Altec DSD4121 HDD and dish suitability

    I have one of the original old Altec DSD 4121 mains powered satellite decoders and it has given me good service other than having to spend about $1 on replacing the (C10?) 1000uf capacitor in the power supply which blew and needed me to replace it. This seems to be the standard design fault in this particular model.
    After all these years I've decided to finally get the "upgrade kit" so I can record with it, which arrived in the post yesterday.
    The user manual says the box will only work with certain models of HDD and only up to a 1TB size.
    It states that if a HDD larger than 1TB is used it will be formatted to 1TB and only use that much of it.

    However........then when I go to the Altec website it has the following info.....
    "Supported Hard Drives for DSD4121
    2018 Recommended HDD:
    Toshiba
    Toshiba 1TB Canvio
    2016 Recommended HDD:
    Please Note: HDD should be externally powered.

    Samsung G3 Station
    1TB External Hard drive
    2TB "Story" External Hard drive
    Seagate Expansion External Hard drive
    1TB External Hard drive
    2TB Expansion External Hard drive
    Iomega
    1TB External Hard drive
    Buffalo
    1TB Drive Station"

    What got my attention was that on the list is the Seagate "2TB Expansion External Hard drive".
    Does anyone know if this VAST box will use the entire 2TB of this drive, or will it still only use 1TB? What about larger drives of the same make/model?
    Reason I ask is that I have the 3TB version of the Seagate "Expansion External Hard drive" and it's brand new in the box. I don't want to open the box just to find it either does not work, or only uses part of the drive's capacity.
    If this will be the case, I am able to return it unopened to where I bought it and then get one of the other drives which they list as being suitable. Otherwise if it will work, and to full capacity I will unpack it and use it.
    I would ask Altec themselves, however they are not open until Monday and I would like to get this little job done over the weekend if possible as I have the opportunity to do the two hour return drive to the nearest Officeworks where I got the 3TB drive and swap it if I need to.
    My other question is regarding the size of the dish which was installed.
    The system was set up back when it was provided by the government as a free service to those unable to get terrestrial TV.

    The installer at first was going to connect to the old (disused) Austar dish but he very reluctantly installed a new (slightly larger, maybe by 10cm?) dish next to it when I insisted I wanted a new dish.
    Even with that, the reception is marginal and sometimes drops out, as in the direction the dish is pointed there is a large hill covered in very tall trees. The dish was originally aimed just barely above one of these trees but of course it has grown and the tip is now directly in front of the aiming point of the dish as far as I can tell by sight.
    The land there is not mine and the trees cannot be removed, so I am wondering if I get an even larger dish, will this compensate to some extent and maybe get me a few more years reception before it is finally blocked by the tree?
    If this might help, what size dish would people recommend that will give me a decent improvement, but not cost me a fortune in freight to get sent to the country area where I live. I'm on a very limited budget.
    What will I need to do when swapping over the dish? Any equipment required etc?
    Thanks. :-)



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    Quote Originally Posted by flyingeric62 View Post
    Does anyone know if this VAST box will use the entire 2TB of this drive, or will it still only use 1TB? What about larger drives of the same make/model?

    Thanks. :-)
    I have used the Seagate "Expansion" 2TB HDD and it will only use 1TB of the HDD .... same thing will apply for larger than 2TB HDD as far as I know
    Last edited by OSIRUS; 29-09-18 at 05:08 PM.
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    I very much doubt a 3TB drive would be suitable, but I don't know for sure.

    As for the size of dish, it depends largely on your location, which you haven't mentioned.

    A 75cm offset dish is usually adequate for most areas, but I always install an 85cm dish as standard for VAST.

    It's possible your existing dish and/or LNB just requires alignment, as they can move a bit over time, especially in windy locations.

    LNB's can also deteriorate, as can connections if not sealed well.

    A larger dish will not help much is the signal path is obstructed.

    When you say the dish was aimed barely above the trees, are you taking into account the offset angle, or what it appears visually?

    Offset dishes typically focus at around a 22 degree higher angle than what they visually appear. Eg: they can appear to be pointing directly into a house roof, but the receiving angle is much higher.



    Heavy rain will affect reception, and a larger dish reduces signal loss in that instance.

    I would recommend checking the dish and LNB alignment.

    Yo'll need either a satellite meter capable of measuring and displaying signal strength and signal quality, or you can do it with the signal screen from the decoder, but you need to have a screen at the dish whilst you make adjustments.

    What signal readings do you currently get on a good day and when reception is bad?

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    you had better check for reflections off the other dish , its called side lobes ,if you can remove the old dish it may stop the dropout as the two dishes interact with each other . I doubt that the hill and trees are your main problem as the hill has been there for ever so is constant . the trees are another thing and are a ten year problem, your pointing will have to be at least 14 degrees over the top of the hill or you wouldnt be getting any signal at all ,hope this helps ,answer the questions put to you then more help is available cheers
    Last edited by hinekadon; 29-09-18 at 05:45 PM. Reason: spelling

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    Dish location can be a problem as when I had Austar installed 20 years ago, the installer was concerned about a row of Pine trees opposite but until all but 3 (in a close group) were left standing, I never noticed any reception problems.
    Where ever you mount the Dish, it MUST be rigid of course but that doesnt mean it has to be almost sitting on a roof. Maybe raising it 300mm (foot) Might put you over there top of the tree line.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OSIRUS View Post
    I have used the Seagate "Expansion" 2TB HDD and it will only use 1TB of the HDD .... same thing will apply for larger than 2TB HDD as far as I know
    Good to know, thanks. That's a shame. So it looks like I will have to return the drive and swap it tomorrow or maybe I can get another old one I have to work. I don't have any of those that they list but have an old Aldi USB3 one but I suppose that is unlikely to work :-(

    Why is this box fussy about the HDD? I thought they would all work the same? Am new at all this so have no idea as you can tell! ;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtv View Post
    I very much doubt a 3TB drive would be suitable, but I don't know for sure.

    As for the size of dish, it depends largely on your location, which you haven't mentioned.

    A 75cm offset dish is usually adequate for most areas, but I always install an 85cm dish as standard for VAST.

    It's possible your existing dish and/or LNB just requires alignment, as they can move a bit over time, especially in windy locations.

    LNB's can also deteriorate, as can connections if not sealed well.

    A larger dish will not help much is the signal path is obstructed.

    When you say the dish was aimed barely above the trees, are you taking into account the offset angle, or what it appears visually?

    Offset dishes typically focus at around a 22 degree higher angle than what they visually appear. Eg: they can appear to be pointing directly into a house roof, but the receiving angle is much higher.



    Heavy rain will affect reception, and a larger dish reduces signal loss in that instance.

    I would recommend checking the dish and LNB alignment.

    Yo'll need either a satellite meter capable of measuring and displaying signal strength and signal quality, or you can do it with the signal screen from the decoder, but you need to have a screen at the dish whilst you make adjustments.

    What signal readings do you currently get on a good day and when reception is bad?

    Thanks for the diagram and description on offset angle. I had no idea of this so was just doing a rough visual assessment from the dish centre.

    My location is Tarbuck Bay 2428 on the NSW mid north coast.

    I am part way up the south side of a fair sized hill and the trees (regrowth after logging, I think in the 70's perhaps) are further up the hill and very tall indeed as they were not thinned out and are competing for light. So much so that my house gets so little sun that I have trouble getting plants to flower and it's very damp with high humidity which also seems to affect the signal, especially on those humid summer evenings when the picture sometimes drops out, which it also does frequently if there is rain. It's really annoying not to have TV on rainy nights which is when you want it most really! lol

    Yes, facing south half way up a hill as it is, the place gets really hammered by southerlies on occasions. Twice in the last nine years it was so windy the house itself was actually swaying very slightly! Scary! Happily this is rare.

    It's an entirely colourbond steel house mounted upon poles due to the slope. The dishes are mounted on the metal skillion roof and are fairly close to each other. Can't remember how close or if they are exactly side by side so will have to have a look again tomorrow in daylight. Will also measure the dish sizes and take a pic of the two dishes and the location and post on here if I can figure out how to do that. :-)

    I can't remember exactly when the box was installed, but I think it's maybe 6-7 years roughly and the trees have grown quite a bit in that time.

    The worst period of picture drop outs was evenings around last december I think, which is why I'd like to get this sorted before it happens again.

    Just checked the Signal Detection screen and right now it says Signal Quality: 68%. Signal Level: 73%. FEC 3/5 (whatever that means?)

    Signal during those dropout periods was very low. Can't remember the figures but looking at the green on screen bar graph I remember the signal dropping to about half what it is tonight.

    The installer ran a new cable from the new antenna, leaving the old Austar one in place and connected, and they are now both terminated on a dual wall plate.

    I do have a small 30cm TV I could take up on the roof to check the alignment I suppose. Not sure how I would do that with the outlet being on the living room wall, so I'm guessing I will have also to take the VAST box up there as well and get a patch lead to connect them up on the roof. Could be a fun day. :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by hinekadon View Post
    you had better check for reflections off the other dish , its called side lobes ,if you can remove the old dish it may stop the dropout as the two dishes interact with each other . I doubt that the hill and trees are your main problem as the hill has been there for ever so is constant . the trees are another thing and are a ten year problem, your pointing will have to be at least 14 degrees over the top of the hill or you wouldn't be getting any signal at all ,hope this helps ,answer the questions put to you then more help is available cheers

    Ah, I never knew about side lobes. How far apart should the dishes be? I left the old Austar one up as I was curious about whether I may be able to put it to some use, but never followed this idea up. Are there other satellites it could pick up and suitable decoder boxes available for them? Please forgive my lack of knowledge everybody. VAST is my very first experience with satellite TV. Looks like I have much to learn! :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by gordon_s1942 View Post
    Dish location can be a problem as when I had Austar installed 20 years ago, the installer was concerned about a row of Pine trees opposite but until all but 3 (in a close group) were left standing, I never noticed any reception problems.
    Where ever you mount the Dish, it MUST be rigid of course but that doesnt mean it has to be almost sitting on a roof. Maybe raising it 300mm (foot) Might put you over there top of the tree line.

    They are quite low to the roof I suppose. They look like just the standard mounting brackets and are screwed onto the almost flat steel roof with a few tek screws, the same as what is used to attach the roof sheets.

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    ok , the main factor is to have the dishes looking away from each other if you want to use mulitple sats then two dishes are good but there are heaps to try use the eastern one on eastern sats and vice versa the side lobes are at there worst if they are crosseyed .?On a tin roof i try to make the dish at least half the dish size above the roof on flatish ones :ie 60cm dish add 300mm to bottom edge , your 68% quality is verging on the edge of drop out, most stb are requiring 70%. i would suggest you buy a screamer to align the dish a bit better for a start then at least you know where you are . regards don

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    The dish size you have should be adequate for VAST at your location.

    I doubt sidelobes is an issue. If they were, they would be a constant problem, not intermittent.

    Given the signal readings, minor re-alignment of the dish and LNB is likely all is needed.

    VAST is very fickle and requires accurate dish and LNB alignment.

    Yes, you would need to have both the decoder and a screen on the roof to 'see' signal screens.

    Just disconnect the existing LNB cable and attach a short cable from the LNB to the decoder.

    Dish alignment would be very small adjustments of azimuth (horizontal) and elevation (vertical tilt). This will affect mostly signal strength readings.

    The most important signal reading is signal quality, as it determines how robust the reception is and therefore the ability to correct errors and provide reception reliability.

    Signal quality is mostly determined by correct alignment (SKEW) of the LNB in its holder. Primarily the rotation angle, but also the distance from the face of the dish (focal length).

    Very slight rotational adjustments can make a huge difference to signal quality.

    If you attempt this, I suggest marking all starting positions of the dish and LNB settings, so you can easily go back to where you started, if need be.

    Your decoder signal display is not real-time, so you will need to give it a second or two to 'catch up' after making any adjustments, before you make further adjustments.

    Yes, there are other sats, but not a great deal of English programming available on the band (Ku) that these smaller dishes receive.

    The VAST decoder can only be used for VAST, so you would need a separate decoder for other services.

    I would recommend you don't worry about doing anything else at this time and concentrate fully on aligning your dish and LNB to obtain the highest-possible signal readings.

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    The Mount I was thinking of was those you see for a quite large solid or Mesh dishes where a substantial bracket is wall mounted and the mast is several feet long.
    I saw one attached to the wall of a 2 story house and the mast went up through the Tile roof supporting at least a 1.6M Mesh.
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