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Thread: Teslas Future

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    Quote Originally Posted by enf View Post
    Here's a little negativity that I never thought of............

    Hehehe.... Makes me laugh because a few months ago I almost got collected by a Tesla I didn't hear coming. Dark blue one.
    Last night I'm walking through a big car park where it's easy to hear cars coming... damn blue tesla snuck up behind me again.
    I almost stepped in front of it. Heheh.

    Silent is good, Do we need to revive the waving the red flag story again?

    If I get hit by a nice quiet Tesla, I can re-assure you all. It will be my own fault I got skittled.
    Yes I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.

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    Maybe all Teslas need to have a playing card attached to the spokes, just like kids on pushbikes.
    I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...

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    While I would always say people are responsible for their own well being and it is NOT someone elses responsibility, I do think there is a consideration in the silence of electrics.
    Sure new cars are very quiet to but I think electrics would also blend into the background noise and be unrecognised for what they are.

    Looking is all good and well and of course essential but they do encourage people to use their senses including hearing when crossing roads. Kids are in fact taught to look and LISTEN for oncoming cars so society will take time to adjust and electric drivers will need to be more aware their presence may not be as easily recognized till people get used to them being around.
    I remember many Years ago a mate of mine hitting the dirt when some kid in a turbo car revved the thing and made it back fire. It was not a wise move. Mate is ex SAS with complications from his time in war and had the kid pretty much by the throat and was looking for the gun he was firing at us. Don't know who had the more Saucer like eyes, Mate or the kid.

    If nothing else, guide dogs are going to have to have an amendment to their training so will blind people who rely on sound a lot to detect traffic.

    I have a Harley and rely on the sound of that to keep me alive particularly in City traffic where people seem to wedge their heads up their arses and see nothing but where they are going or what the corner street sign says. I have the exhaust on that thing perfect. I can cruise along on the highway and hear the tyres on cars in front and a mates Bike chain when we go riding. In the city I can make the thing bark so people hear me and know I'm around and Look for me instead of look through me. You can see the difference it makes to peoples awareness when they hear you.They hear then tend to look.

    As I say people are responsible for their own welfare but in this case it's not completely one sided and electric drivers will need to be aware that people to have to get used to not hearing them.
    Then again, some people wouldn't hear OR see a Panzer tank from 10 Ft away!..


    Got to say I am surprised I didn't get more input to this thread from the Tesla proponents. I fully expected with the amount of fans the company has there would have been a load of people keen to extol the virtues of the company.
    Just to upset the disciples, again, It makes me now wonder how many of them actually know and understand the companies finances and position as against just being caught up in the story and looking for a cause to champion? I have read a number of articles the last couple of days that make a financial case for the company's future and have merit well worthy of consideration and are based in fact and logic. I really thought someone here would have been able to put some sort financial case for them. I usually do hear a lot of hype as I said from the outset but it seems when you ask for a financially based position thing get much quieter.

    There only being one person even putting forward a theory here does surprise me but is none the less interesting and raises other questions. It will be interesting to see next time anything about Tesla comes up what the faithful say to support the company when there was so little able to be put forward here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lsemmens View Post
    Maybe all Teslas need to have a playing card attached to the spokes, just like kids on pushbikes.
    Perhaps the idea actually has merit?

    These things are very advanced with their autonomous driving and I would think they have driver assist things like the merc I drive that will keep you a certain Distance from the car in font and hit the brakes if it detects an obstacle.
    It would not seem like a big ask to program the same sensors to detect something coming out and moving in front of the vehicle from a distance to sound a warning tone and flash the headlights particularly at low speeds like where the vehicle would be in a carpark or coming from a driveway etc. Most cars with this level of tech now will apply the brakes so the warning could be programmed in at a certain distance before braking was needed. Not going to do much for kids on bikes and skateboard but they have always been a problem anyway and it's very hard to fix young and stupid.

    I'd be pretty sure as electrics get more popular and the problem becomes more significant of people not hearing them, that something like this does come into effect.

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    Heheh... you have a Harley and rely on the noise it makes to keep you alive. Hahah.. yep. That's a harley rider.
    I use intelligence, skill,experience and a helmet to keep me alive. If you use noise in the hope other idiots will keep you safe..... Please.... at least wear a go pro so we have a good video record of how you died.

    Harley riders pretend they're tough and not scared of anything, but first round-a-bout they come to, it's like the training wheels just came off
    Oh, so many good harley jokes and so few chromosomes.

    I've driven 10,000 miles in the last few weeks. I've seen a LOT of harley riders and 90% of them not wearing helmets.
    My complaint is that natural selection is not living up to my standards
    Yes I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.

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    Quote Originally Posted by trash View Post
    Heheh... you have a Harley and rely on the noise it makes to keep you alive. Hahah.. yep. That's a harley rider.
    I use intelligence, skill,experience and a helmet to keep me alive. If you use noise in the hope other idiots will keep you safe..... Please.... at least wear a go pro so we have a good video record of how you died.

    Harley riders pretend they're tough and not scared of anything, but first round-a-bout they come to, it's like the training wheels just came off
    Oh, so many good harley jokes and so few chromosomes.

    I've driven 10,000 miles in the last few weeks. I've seen a LOT of harley riders and 90% of them not wearing helmets.
    My complaint is that natural selection is not living up to my standards
    That's a lot of suppositions you make there as well as making conclusions not stated or implied.
    Pitty none of them are right and you are not near as clever as you think you are but if it makes you feel superior and better about yourself, well clearly you need that reassurance.
    Over confidence and arrogance is the biggest danger to a persons well being of all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by george65 View Post
    Over confidence and arrogance is the biggest danger to a persons well being of all.
    Nar... I think you're mistaking lots of confidence for too much. Sounds like the issue here is that the joke about you being found under a bus is not because of your poor choice of transport, but because you threw yourself under it.



    The baaaad boy harley image. Harley riders are tough guys who don't laugh at jokes especially about harleys.
    World War Two ended over 70 years ago yet some people continue the nationalist attitude.

    Hey Rick... do you still have the "brrrrriiiing brrrriiiiing" little girls bike bell I sent you for your Harley? Can you send it to George, he needs something to cheer him up.
    There Harley shop down the road here has some nice tassels for the handle bars, a feature no harley rider should be without.

    Here's a photo I took last week.


    Now to be fair, I did see non-harley riders without helmets. But the ratio was reverse. I have seen as many non harley riders without helmets as I have harley riders with helmets. I have not seen any non-harley riders with tassels.
    I did see some non harley riders in pink on pink bikes. But the arse on the seat always had some smooth curves on it. The arse ... not the seat.
    I didn't see any pink harleys. Though I did see what I think were women riding them, with curves that had the wrong camber on them. uurrggh !

    And ape hangers ...... Oh I wish I'd been quick enough get some photos of bad boys with such ridiculous riding postures that only a harley rider could appreciate. Even the Japanese would find them more hilarious and exaggerated than a spaceballs movie prop. The dude I saw yesterday looked like he as rowing his bike to Long beach.

    So lighten up George. Because if you can't laugh with people, they will laugh at you.

    >> Briiiiing Briiiing <<
    Yes I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.

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    This whole discussion about those bad electric cars killing people who are too stupid and ignorant to LOOK before they cross a road and need to rely on their ears is totally pointless as the majority of pedestrians wear some sort of noise generators in their ears formerly identifiable with those ugly white cables that Apple supplied them with but now with the omission of headphone jacks invisibly connected via bluetooth.



    ...and if you have a look (tables further down) at this link how few were sold in Australia:

    I don't know why we are even having this discussion.


    Rest assured you are way more likely to be hit by a petrol guzzler in any case and while this is happening continously nobody seems to have a problem with that.
    Update: A deletion of features that work well and ain't broke but are deemed outdated in order to add things that are up to date and broken.
    Compatibility: A word soon to be deleted from our dictionaries as it is outdated.
    Humans: Entities that are not only outdated but broken... AI-self-learning-update-error...terminate...terminate...

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    So speaking of Tesla

    How many orders does he have?
    I haven't looked a ages, but last time i looked he was 4000% over subscribed with orders

    That figure has to get the attention of the worlds Investment Bankers
    Of course then comes Risk Analysis, but like so many fronteir business's, that often gets de-graded some what

    So long as he can deliver the product
    I see Tesla has lost its Tax Credits after selling 200,000 vehicles
    Last edited by ol' boy; 20-10-18 at 11:40 AM.
    If u want to go on an expedition get a Land Rover, if u want to come home from an expedition get a Landcruiser!

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    personally i dont think they will ever be mainstream and will only be a niche
    market. i also believe they will be like a disposable razor once used x amount of times its
    useless because its to expensive to maintain.

    Why

    well you cant get parts and you cant do anything on them yourself nor can anyone else
    unless they are a authorised repairer and as such when it needs repair etc at the
    top of the quote it will advise you that you must touch your toes and part your butt cheeks .

    a bloke in the usa is going through just this dilemma with tesla , even though in that
    state companies must make available parts etc to the public they will not because they have
    said you need software to do anything and they will not release it to any one full stop.

    Last edited by fandtm666; 20-10-18 at 11:30 AM.

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    Agreed fant, still cheap energy from hydrocarbons
    1ltre of Hydrocarbon will drag 2tonne at 100kph for an average of 10kms, not bad for $1.55
    If u want to go on an expedition get a Land Rover, if u want to come home from an expedition get a Landcruiser!

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    Quote Originally Posted by fandtm666 View Post
    personally i dont think they will ever be mainstream and will only be a niche
    market. i also believe they will be like a disposable razor once used x amount of times its
    useless because its to expensive to maintain.

    Why

    well you cant get parts and you cant do anything on them yourself nor can anyone else
    unless they are a authorised repairer and as such when it needs repair etc at the
    top of the quote it will advise you that you must touch your toes and part your butt cheeks .

    a bloke in the usa is going through just this dilemma with tesla , even though in that
    state companies must make available parts etc to the public they will not because they have
    said you need software to do anything and they will not release it to any one full stop.

    You talking about Tesla or Apple?
    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

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    For a country like australia wirh big distances and majority of electricity via coal rather pointless having electric cars,,may as well have a bag of coal in the back

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    Quote Originally Posted by oceanboy View Post
    So speaking of Tesla

    How many orders does he have?
    I haven't looked a ages, but last time i looked he was 4000% over subscribed with orders
    That was a while back.

    Most of the back orders for existing models have been filled. The last couple of days they have tried to push a cheaper version with the shorter range battery. Musk is pushing it as a $35K car after credits and gas savings which of course is typical tesla way of describing a $45K car. The $35 K Version which is still vaporware is now thought to be a significan't part of the still existing reservations. I'm sick to death about reading of "the model 3 which starts at $35K". It doesn't and never has and I doubt ever will. Even musk has said it would kill them to do that version at the present ( past) time. There is no such car on the price list but the fanboi media still describe the vehicle as starting at 35k ( US) which is like describing a'72 Vw Beetle as being worth $500K. It's been over a year now and there is still no 35K version yet they brag they have built 100K of the things. If the cheapest one available is 44k, clearly it's not a 35K car!

    The actual remaining reservation numbers have not been updated for a while not but it is believed a significant number of those remaining are wanting the $35K version.
    That means Tesla will have to build it at much lower margin, if any, to satisfy the orders or loose the majority of them and refund the potentially millions it has in deposits. The $5K version just announced was obviously an attempt to try and up sell those 35K buyers. $45K is still a LOT over the price of a range of IC vehicles in the middle market so the amount of buyers they do convert will likley not be high.

    Of late they have been trying to drum up sales with pitches about delivery before end of year to get the tax credit and various other attempts to get in new orders. They are also looking to start on the overseas market deliverys which many say will worsen their cash position. It will increase the time between the expense of building the car and getting paid for it through having a far greater number of vehicles in transit, namely on slow boats to china and everywhere else. It's been queried if musk might be saying there is a lack of ships when the delivery numbers fall short.

    The numbers for Q3 are due in a bit over a week and everyone expects them to show a profit and a big increase in sales and delivery's. They also expect the numbers to fall flat on their arse again for Q4. Given that suppliers are paid on 90 day accounts, this means that the debts for q3 will fall when there is less cash flow in q4 which will further strain their cash flow along with all the other debts that are falling due between now and march.

    There are ways for the company to be profitable and get ahead but unfortunately there have been a LOT of problems created in getting where they have so far and those shorter term obstacles are going to make it extremely difficult to over come and get to the longer term profitable ones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wiilliiss View Post
    For a country like australia wirh big distances and majority of electricity via coal rather pointless having electric cars,,may as well have a bag of coal in the back
    Couln't agree more. All this emissions free/ clean vehicle thing is a smoke screen for the greenwashed and those that can't think for themselves.
    With the exception of a couple of the nordic countries, the world is still 80% fossil fueled. there may not be any tail pipe on your EV but there is a fking big smoke stack at the power plant!
    The gullible also talk about charging the cars up from their solar panels not realising the average system would take a week and that's with nothing to spare for your house which is now running on fossil power.

    Of course even if you want to expand your PV system, there is a growing backlash from the power co's now claiming BS about the solar feed back being a risk to the stability and " safety" of the grid. Complete and utter bullshit just to protect profits but undermines the whole clean car thing even if a person is serious and committed to it.

    The cradle to grave emissions and resources of EV's is also pathetic compared to IC cars. They never mention the filthy and polluting practices in Cobalt and lithium mines and the fallout from those.

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    here in kiwiland whenever theres an announcement about proposed hydro swarms of nasty greenies come out of the woodwork
    the way they rave on could be chernobel2

    ev could work if nightshift worker not too far from work and something like a Nissan leaf with 1/2 house covered with panels

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    what tarrif does china put on usa electric cars?
    30% + 60 days in impound ?

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    I had an opportunity to take my spectrum analyser out to beside a tesla with an antenna attached the electrical noise level was surprisingly low hardly detectable at all . well down amongst the noise , more from the wifi next door on 9k to 6ghz , a subaru went passed and was of the scale go figure that ???? spec an is R&S fs6 with preamp before you ask ?????

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    No surprises at all there, hinekadon, Try it on, say an FJ. Points and condensors, along with a a coil and dissy and less than optimum leads..........
    I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...

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    Got to say, it surprises me! But then again, if the thing was just sitting there, it shouldn't be making much noise either.

    RF emissions are off the scale these days with all manner of products. For something like an electric car to have lower emissions than a normal vehicle, that takes some doing. It's not an easy feat to suppress RF emissions although I'd like to see what the thing put out when driving by. I did read somewhere before these things had put a lot of work into RF supression but I also read inside the cabin is like sitting in a virtual microwave. Would have to see some unbiased tests to really know. I don't think there would be that much in the cabin to cause undue RF emissions, from what I know you mainly have sold state switching for the majority of things and the main controls would all be low voltage DC which usually puts out less RF ( depending what sort of switching it's connected to) and has lower strength.

    If they have got the RF down low, that would be a major achievement and credit to them. If I were in the Tesla PR section, that's something I'd be pushing for all it's worth. The health effects caused by RF are becoming more well known and I'm sure would be something potential EV buyers would be concerned about. That's IF they have got them under control that is.



    I was reading a site a couple of days ago, Electreck I think it was, where they were going on about negative press directed towards Tesla and Championing the brand as world changers of the future.
    I scrolled down and saw a bunch of other articles on other EV's. All these other articles if one connected the dots greatly undermined the very things they had said about Tesla's long term stability indirectly but very clearly. They spoke of Different new models coming out, how other brands were ahead of tesla's features, huge financial backing other companies had received, how other brands in different markets were outselling tesla's significan'tly and a lot of things that if one took the blinkers off, were all in effect very bad news for the Tesla brand.

    They sure weren't being negative to Tesla but in pointing out the features of these other vehicles and brands, were really putting nails in the Tesla coffin just the same.
    It was incredibly ironic they should bemoan the Negative press Tesla gets then their own articles right underneath in championing the EV revoloution gave indisputable fact and reason why Tesla itself is really shoving the proverbial uphill with a tooth pick.

    It's real easy to find 50 reasons Tesla has one hell of a battle, if not mission impossible task on it's hands to stay afloat but even when you want to look for the counter points of what it has going in it's favour, it's basically impossible as well. I always think the trick to finding truth in something is to look for the counter point. I can't find anything based in fact and merit with Tesla. Every advantage or attribute they do have is greatly undermined by a well known problem and all their real potential lies in a future they have overwhelming odds of never reaching that far.
    There are so many problems they will have to overcome but if you look at the competition aspect alone and the fact they are going to be in every other manufacturers sights to get rid of them as soon as possible, it's hard to imagine how they are going to get past that one hurdle alone.

    The Q3 Report comes out Thursday our time. It will be interesting to see what it says but pretty much predictable. More interesting will be to see what it does to the bouncing stock price but more telling still will be to see the Q4 results in January.
    That's when crunch time and put up or sell up are really going to start hitting home.

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