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Thread: Earthing....is this legal?

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    Default Earthing....is this legal?

    Recently purchased a 3-stage battery charger on eBay.

    I always like to have a look “under the bonnet” of this sort of thing, and was a bit surprised at what I found.

    The charger is housed in one of those aluminium extrusions that seem so popular these days, with a removable lid.

    On the right of the rear panel is the 240V input, wired across to a pretty ordinary plastic on/off switch on the left.

    As can be seen, all of the 240V wiring is simply soldered (not spectacularly well) to the input socket and the switch, with no attempt to secure the wire mechanically through the holes in the terminals.

    The mains lead sports a 3-pin plug, and the earth wire buzzes out to the terminal on the back of the 240V input socket on the right

    It’s been a long time since I had anything to do with wiring regs, but my recollection is that if a 240V device is mounted in a metal housing, said housing must be earthed.

    Seems to me that if the Active soldered connection let go off the back of the switch and touched the aluminium housing, things could get interesting….notwithstanding the insulating properties of the black anodizing.

    So…does this comply with current Australian Wiring Regulations?







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    Update:

    Just did a further check.....the active is wired from the input socket straight to the PCB ......the switch is switching the neutral.

    Is this kosher??!
    Last edited by Thala Dan; 15-10-18 at 08:05 PM.

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    was it shipped from OS or locally?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyPatrol View Post
    was it shipped from OS or locally?
    Shipped from a warehouse in Regents Park, Leroy........obviously the local depot of a supplier based to our North

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    If it's a metallic enclosure with a 3-pin power connection, it's required to be earthed.

    Furthermore, it is not approved for use in Australia if it does not display the Regulatory Compliance Mark (RCM) (or 'C' tick).



    This mark is currently recognised by all States and Territories of Australia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtv View Post
    If it's a metallic enclosure with a 3-pin power connection, it's required to be earthed.

    Furthermore, it is not approved for use in Australia if it does not display the Regulatory Compliance Mark (RCM) (or 'C' tick).



    This mark is currently recognised by all States and Territories of Australia.
    These markings are on the box:



    The print under the tick states:

    "National accreditation of Certification Bodies"

    There are absolutely no markings on the device itself, only the box in which it came.

    As I mentioned earlier, the 240V power lead is a three-core lead, and the earth pin/wire appears on the power input connector, but goes nowhere from there.
    Last edited by Thala Dan; 15-10-18 at 07:24 PM.

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    I have bought a considerable amount of tools and machinery that is Chinese made as has a mate and we have both had excellent service out of it. Yeah, few minor problems but when you are paying 25% or less of what the brand names cost and the thing is 95% as good, Excellent deal in my book and I'm prepared for a bit of fine tuning.

    That said, anything electrical is often junk or dangerous.
    I ( foolishly) Bought some plug in heater elements some months ago to warm the water jacket on a methane Digester I built. I have never seen such hair thin wire on a mains appliance before in my life. I had to cut the US type plug off to put on an Oz one and I could not believe how thin the wire was. It must have been Date cable or something but the last time I made up cat 6 Cables the conductors looked more substantial.

    I put an ohm meter on the thing after I hacked into the insulation and got to the element itself and it looked like it would do the 1000 W rated all right. I found an adaptor plug and turned the other one on for about 10 Sec and sure enough, the lead to the element was hotter than the element itself.
    Complained to the seller the things were dangerous and should not be sold and got an instant refund without asking for one. also send a report to fleabay the things were highly dangerous but of course nothing happened and the seller is still advertising and selling them.

    I have also bought 12 and 24V power inverters. Won't again. Apart from the dodgy electrics, the things are ALWAYS over rate and I'm not just talking peak power. The things will be marked say 1000W/2000 peak, but a giveaway is when you look, the things are only fused for 50 amp on the 12 V side meaning they can't do more than 500W at best. Some are greatly under rated on the mosfets and the heat sinking on a couple I have seen is a joke with the Fets not even flush to the heatsink.

    I have got a good brand name inverter that was chinese made and there is nothing wrong with it but you really are taking a lottery ticket with anything from fleabay. I wouldn't run any mains electrical appliance I got off the net unless I examined it first or it came as a board and I wired it myself.
    They really have no standards, ethics, pride in their work or basis in truth or fact when it comes to electrical things. they give everything Ridiculous Numbers like its a matter of the person with teh Highest number wins. I'd really LOVE one of those Little car Jump start packs that had a 50 AH battery like a lot of them advertise that would fit in a shirt pocket but I'm not that gullible or stupid to believe the numbers for a second. Usually they higher the numbers on things, the more inferior they are to those advertising more realist but lower numbers.

    I would buy a China Made Petrol or diesel engine ( have over 20 of them) any day over something like a Briggs or a US made unit, even found their tools to be a hell of a lot better than many people say, but when it comes to China electronic/electrical..... Buyer be VERY aware.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thala Dan View Post
    There are absolutely no markings on the device itself, only the box in which it came.
    Dodgy at best... deadly at worst.

    The Australian C-tick approval mark must be on the equipment itself.

    Given it is neither present on the equipment or the box, indicates the equipment has not been certified as being safe for use in Australia.

    As the item is supplied from a NSW address, fairtrading NSW is the appropriate authority to provide an official answer.



    From the link below:

    The approval mark should be permanently on the article itself – being on the box or container is not sufficient.


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    As mtv says

    Seems everything i learnt in Trade school and everything i had to memorise out of the AS3000 has been made a joke of these days
    So many imported light fitting we go to install and they are just so so wrong!

    I wouldn't trust any markings, they are all just copied now anyway, not worth the box they are printed on

    You've done the right thing having a look for yourself, it is the ONLY way to know!

    Switching the Neutral, oh lordy.

    Rewire it with a 3 core flex and 3 pin plug and bolt an earth point to the body.
    (oh i see you've said that, just complete the job then)

    Illegal or Legal, who cares, just make it safe
    Last edited by ol' boy; 16-10-18 at 07:40 AM.
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    Any device that is double insulated does not require an earth but in your case the charger does not comply with ASNZ 3000 rules and with the omittance of the C tick approval this is evidence that the product has not been inspected and approved by SAA

    Honestly you would be doing everyone including yourself a favour by reporting this product.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thala Dan View Post
    These markings are on the box:

    The print under the tick states:

    "National accreditation of Certification Bodies"

    There are absolutely no markings on the device itself, only the box in which it came.

    As I mentioned earlier, the 240V power lead is a three-core lead, and the earth pin/wire appears on the power input connector, but goes nowhere from there.
    A battery charger is a declared article under legislation. The government regulator looks poorly upon non-compliance.
    MTV is correct in stating that the RCM must be present. Certain non-declared articles can get vicarious approval from agencies such as Underwriters Laboratories or TÜV.

    CE markings are often faked as are ISO certifications. As MTV has reiterated, the goods need to be correctly labelled with Australian regulatory approval.
    My current work role involves compliance checking and without an authorised NATA lab issuing approval, the goods should not be trusted to be electrically safe.

    Remember, not too long ago:
    "The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom." - Issac Asimov

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    Thanks for all the comments………seems like my recollection of the Regs may not be as out of date as I thought.

    Thanks @MTV for the links, and yes, @Ranger1, I think I had better drop fairtrading a line, as the eBay listing says they’ve sold 67 of these death traps.

    The eBay listing also states in the Product Specifications:

    “Conforms to current EMC and electrical safety regulations and is fully CE marked”

    Only place I can see CE anywhere is on the box, and moulded into the body of the crappy little plastic on/off switch.

    I have carefully visually checked the charger and confirmed that:

    1. The charger is supplied with a three-core power cord and fitted with a 3-pin plug, and that the earth wire from the plug appears at the input connector, but is not then connected to the metal housing.

    2. The mains Active is wired direct from the input connector to the PCB, and the Neutral is switched by the on/off switch.

    3. There are no markings of any kind whatsoever anywhere on the housing, the device labelling, or the PCB, that would indicate any kind of regulatory approvals.

    I’ll probably continue to use the device, but only after I’ve grounded the housing, and run the Active through the on/off switch.

    My home switchboard has a RCD installed, and my shed is powered from a power circuit extended underground from the house.

    Total distance from the shed back to the RCD in the house switchboard is about 50 metres odd…….I always had a bit of a concern about that sort of distance possibly affecting the response time of the RCD.

    So, a couple of years back I bought a RCD and housing to install in the shed on the basis that it was better to be safe than sorry.

    That RCD has sat in a cupboard since then, featuring regularly on my “gunna” list.

    After seeing this charger, I just might get off my backside and install it
    Last edited by Thala Dan; 15-10-18 at 10:34 PM.

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    Default NO NO no

    not legal

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger1 View Post

    Honestly you would be doing everyone including yourself a favour by reporting this product.
    I agree but I honestly wonder if it will do any good what so ever?

    Reporting things to Fleabay is like talking to a pot plant UNLESS it's something that takes revenue out of their pockets. Then they will be on it like a fat kid on a cupcake.

    I wonder if reporting it to fair trading or anyone else would also do a scrap of good? Will they do anything? CAN they do anything or will it go on an endless list and by the time they get to it the shipment will have been sold out and they will be onto some other flakey thing. I think they try to duckshove and cut down their workload as well.
    I remember reporting a scam I came across years ago. Got a phone call back and they asked if I have been a victim. I said no but someone will be. Reply was they can only act if the person reporting personally suffered a loss. It was there plain as day but they wouldn't do anything.

    If they did in this case, I also have doubts as to any actions effectiveness. I can well see in minds eye some little dodgy prick claiming they don't speak English, didn't know, won't sell them anymore ( under that store name) and getting away scott free. Soon as inspector is out the door they re list them under one of their other 27 Storefront names and business as usual.

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    It's worth reporting to Fair Trading, just for the safety of others who unknowingly buy this sort of stuff. Fair Trading take a very dim view of non-approved electrical goods, and are usually pretty quick to get onto it.

    From Fair Trading website:
    Fair Trading investigators visit suppliers at regular intervals to inspect electrical goods being sold and can take action to prosecute suppliers selling unapproved, unmarked or non-compliant declared electrical articles. The current maximum penalty under the Electricity (Consumer Safety) Act 2004 is $825,000 or 2 years imprisonment.

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    Report it here :

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    Quote Originally Posted by loopyloo View Post
    Report it here :
    So many imported single items, would it actually make any difference?
    If u want to go on an expedition get a Land Rover, if u want to come home from an expedition get a Landcruiser!

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    Quote Originally Posted by george65 View Post
    I agree but I honestly wonder if it will do any good what so ever?

    Reporting things to Fleabay is like talking to a pot plant UNLESS it's something that takes revenue out of their pockets. Then they will be on it like a fat kid on a cupcake.

    I wonder if reporting it to fair trading or anyone else would also do a scrap of good? Will they do anything? CAN they do anything or will it go on an endless list and by the time they get to it the shipment will have been sold out and they will be onto some other flakey thing. I think they try to duckshove and cut down their workload as well.
    I remember reporting a scam I came across years ago. Got a phone call back and they asked if I have been a victim. I said no but someone will be. Reply was they can only act if the person reporting personally suffered a loss. It was there plain as day but they wouldn't do anything.

    If they did in this case, I also have doubts as to any actions effectiveness. I can well see in minds eye some little dodgy prick claiming they don't speak English, didn't know, won't sell them anymore ( under that store name) and getting away scott free. Soon as inspector is out the door they re list them under one of their other 27 Storefront names and business as usual.
    Whether is gets acted on or not when reporting is up to the relevant authority but not reporting just encourages these rogues get away selling inferior products that is a danger to you and your family, friends and the broader community.
    This sort of rubbish has got to be stamped out and you must take a stand somewhere!

    Cheers

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    If it complies with the 'double insulation' specs it doesn't need to have an earth connection but this thing very obviously does not show any double insulation whatsoever.
    Looks like a very simple task to connect the chassis to the earth terminal though (wire,solder, crimp lug, bolt & nut)

    Some of us (nerds maybe) always look under the hood to see what's going on and take actions to improve safety, functionality but the majority of buyers wouldn't have a clue and those are the ones who need protection.
    Last edited by Skepticist; 16-10-18 at 07:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bob_m_54 View Post
    It's worth reporting to Fair Trading, just for the safety of others who unknowingly buy this sort of stuff. Fair Trading take a very dim view of non-approved electrical goods, and are usually pretty quick to get onto it.

    From Fair Trading website:


    What a joke.

    How come every major electrical retailer in Australia is selling non c tick approved American spec dect 6 cordless phones then?

    They operate on the USA dect band of 1920 to 1930mhz......

    The Australian band is 1880 to 1900 mhz......

    Sent from my CLT-L29 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by hoe; 16-10-18 at 08:30 PM.

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