2005 Subaru 3.0 H6 - Fuel Type?

[ol' boy]

Anyone care to chime in here....

Just got the above vehicle for daughter
Then i started thinking i wonder of its a Premium Unleaded vehicle
(She is out in it, so i cant look in the User Manual just yet)

But i searched heaps on line, only to find a bunch of people as confused as me....

Redbook says this



The Fuel Filler has a sticker saying "Premium Unleaded Recommend"
It doesn't say you have to or "Premium Unleaded Only" as is also stated on other fuel filler caps.



I appreciated it has knock sensors and VVT, so it will advance and retard the timing as it see's fit.
But i don't want her running a RON 95 engine on RON 91 if its not designed to be.

Next, i searched and download the Factory Service Manual and scoured it until i find this......




From the above it may be obvious to some that it requires Premium Unleaded at above 95 RON... soooo are they saying 96 RON which for us would be 98 RON?
Im just confused with the "Recommended" vs "Only"

I guess i'll have to wait and read the Australian User Manual
Anyone care add to this?

[VroomVroom]

from what i remember they were not designed to run on 91 , although they could but with less power output. Should be ok puttering around town but not fully laden or towing. Maybe look at the small bottles of octane booster ?

[ol' boy]

Thanks Vroom, with a bit more searching, which is hard as there are USA/Canada manuals, Euro Manuals, etc i found this....



There has also been countless assumptions on Subaru forums by punters too.

I'll tell her to use 95 RON in it
There is also stories of the back 2 cylinders getting hot on 91

[VroomVroom]

the rear 2 cylinders getting hot is a known problem , probably more related to an airflow issue rather than the fuel used. Subies are awesome till they reach 200k then the issues start piling up. Unfortunately the engine has to be removed for any major works like timing chains or head gaskets , just like the new Prado really I looked at a couple of vids on spewtube which turned me off them a bit although they are one of the best cars out there.

[ol' boy]

the rear 2 cylinders getting hot is a known problem , probably more related to an airflow issue rather than the fuel used. Subies are awesome till they reach 200k then the issues start piling up. Unfortunately the engine has to be removed for any major works like timing chains or head gaskets , just like the new Prado really I looked at a couple of vids on spewtube which turned me off them a bit although they are one of the best cars out there.

Don't say that, its done 190,000km

I had several other vehicles picked out for the Mrs and Daughter to look at, then they found this one in a yard and told me they were buying it

Oh well, i better change all fluids and tell her to keep a daily to weekly eye on oil and coolant levels
As i know how good Subaru's are at ingesting them
The H6 has timing chains, so i am hoping that will be one less problem, but i read the guides wear out and the chains becomes loose.

[lsemmens]

It takes Petrol - don't thank me............ [runs...............hides]

[VroomVroom]

The H6 has timing chains, so i am hoping that will be one less problem, but i read the guides wear out and the chains becomes loose.

its the H6 chains that are the problem. once the guides wear out the chains are close behind. Youtube has plenty of Subie clips about it. Maybe they have already been done by previous owner? arsehole of a job.
for extra peace of mind you should install one of these -
I installed one into my 2 year old Prado and about a month ago the buzzer went off. I thought hey what the F its a new car , but yes a hose had split its guts and bye bye coolant. known Prado issue of course , and if i had kept on driving it would have effed my warranty.

[ol' boy]

It takes Petrol - don't thank me............ [runs...............hides]

You've never owned a Turbo or H6 Subaru if that is your answer
Known for being particularly brittle.
I had an EJ20TT once, it was the same, completely chernobyled on me.

[ol' boy]

for extra peace of mind you should install one of these -
I installed one into my 2 year old Prado and about a month ago the buzzer went off. I thought hey what the F its a new car , but yes a hose had split its guts and bye bye coolant. known Prado issue of course , and if i had kept on driving it would have effed my warranty.

Hey, that is a great idea, especially with summer coming.
Sadly i don't know the vehicles history yet.

Where abouts did you mount that probe vroomvroom?

I like the idea, i hate OEM temp gauges that are programmed not to move from 80-95c, then all of a sudden move when its too late
I remember these units were popular too:

[enf]

Run premium 98. Cheaper fuels may only produce a false saving anyway, as the mileage may decrease.

My last car, a VEII SS, could run on e80 according to the fuel specs. But I was strongly advised (strongly) to just use premium so I always did.

My new SSV LS3 just says Premium.

[VroomVroom]

the probe comes as a small thermistor , about 4mm wide , maybe 30mm long? so i gently crimped an automotive lug onto it and bolted it to an existing bolt on a heater pipe at front of the head ( 1GD FTV engine ). normal running temp is about 83deg , when i switch the engine off it rises to about 90deg , so i set the trigger point to 95deg. I wired in a small buzzer as the warning device but a flashing 10mm Red LED would also work.

you would have to experiment with your engine a bit to find a sweet spot away from exhaust manifolds

[ol' boy]

Cheers mate, i just thought you may have T-pieced into the cooling system
But if bolting it to the block will do, that is good.

[george65]

Just got the above vehicle for daughter

Do you not like your Daughter?
The H6's are the worst of the older suby engines bar the 3.6's and harking back to the L series. Hope she won't be doing any serious miles in the thing and it's just a run around.
They drink like fish and will drop their guts at a moments notice. Do not let the oil changes go overdue. Also weigh a ton and a pain in the arse to work on. Everything for them costs a bomb. Not worth doing the head gaskets on them when they WILL fail.
You would have done FAR better getting her a 2L or a 2.5 with the head gaskets done.

Mrs has the same car with a 2L in it. Did the head gaskets, timing belt and water pump and put a set of the fairly hard to come by High compression heads on the thing. Goes well, pretty economical for the load it's always hauling around and has been reliable beyond it's age. Only thing done to it in 100K Km is replace a rear hub when the bearing went. 30 min work.
Also upgraded the running gear with a lot of turbo stuff in the way of brakes, drive shafts, suspension and other bits and bobs.
Put a full leather electric interior in the thing as well. It's a nice car that is smooth as silk to drive and sticks to the road like glue. Mrs wants a Turbo Forrester but this thing is too good to let go.

DO NOT run any Suby on E-10 other than the very occasional time when nothing else is available. You can look at the exhaust or Valves on an engine and tell it's been run repeatedly on E10 and these are the engines that always have problems.... despite the people that will say they have used it and had no trouble. Hang in there, you will! Exhaust gas sensors are the first and most common thing.
( times out of 10 when they go the things have been run on E-10.

the rear 2 cylinders getting hot is a known problem , probably more related to an airflow issue rather than the fuel used.

Never heard of this and can't see the idea standing up to logic. They are a water cooled engine and airflow over them is completely irrelevant. Any over heating is caused by either failing water pumps, head gaskets or radiator.

Subies are awesome till they reach 200k then the issues start piling up.

Not sure if you are talking in general or about the H6. If in general I would strongly disagree. The problems with these engines is ALWAYS one of 3 things:

People damage or don't replace the radiator and cook them. Often they will see the thing getting hot and "were just going to drive it home" ... home often from what I have seen being 50 KM away. Have also seen engines that got that hot they melted the sensors on the engine.

Lack of oil. again, light comes on and they " were just trying to get home" and sieze the thing solid. Amazing how many people Never check the oil and never change it at regular intervals.

Lack of maintence. Never change the cam belt and eventually it lets go or strips all the teeth off and the valves bounce off the pistons.

2.5's did have a problem with head gaskets but once changed which can be done in the car, as long as the heads haven't gone soft and they are skimmed, once the factory gaskets are replaced they never fail again.

IF maintained, they last 500K+ and I have personally seen at least a dozen examples of this personally. Everything from the 1.8 Brumby engines to 2L and 2.5's. I have seen engines with 500K on the clock and the bores still had the cross hatch in them. Mechanic mate had a liberty he bough with 504K km on it and sold it at 520. Compression was still good and the engine had never been cracked.

Unfortunately the engine has to be removed for any major works like timing chains or head gaskets , just like the new Prado really

Head gaskets yes, Timing chain no but there are 84 10mm bolts holding the front cover on. They are a pain in the arse and the cost of the timing chain kit when the tensioner gets noisy and chain is stretched is not worth doing by the age the motors are then. Just get a used motor and see how long you get out of it.

I looked at a couple of vids on spewtube which turned me off them a bit although they are one of the best cars out there.

You were unfortunately Mislead. YT vids are often stupidly biased and full of BS when it comes to vehicles. I was watching one the other day which showed an outback lacking power to go up a small rut in the dirt. Morons making the vid were using the electronics like traction control and X mode which is specifically NOT for off roading and their conclusion they announced to the world was the thing had insufficient power to pull itself up a small hill. Idiots! As many commented on the vid, wonder how many people now wrongly think they are so lacking in power and were put off buying one.

Reminds me of my sons mate. We had a great suby lined up for him we went through but his father was told by someone that never owned one that subys were no good. Bought him a Honda instead. Nice car, very luxurious but nearly sent the family broke repairing the thing at ridiculous parts cost. Thing was off the road as much as it was on. Finally relented after about 18 Moths and I found him another liberty we went through and made sure the basics like cam belt etc were done. Hasn't touched the thing once in 2 years save for oil changes and loves it. Father has changed his opinion of course.

They are like any other car, far from perfect, have their quirks and need maintenance. Looked after properly, they are in fact great cars that are ultra reliable,( In 2 and 2.5 Versions, 6 Cyl are time bombs) cheap on parts when they do need them 9 again except for 6's) and will do what a lot other cars won't. The AWD is a great feature that is both safe and makes for good driving performance and adds a lot of security in wet and crappy conditions.

[ol' boy]

Do you not like your Daughter?
The H6's are the worst of the older suby engines bar the 3.6's and harking back to the L series.

Ok

Looked after properly, they are in fact great cars that are ultra reliable

Ok

[ol' boy]

You would have done FAR better getting her a 2L or a 2.5 with the head gaskets done.

Interesting, we looked at the 2003 Forrester 2.5L, first thing i noticed was the white coolant stains on the engine
Then i asked the owner, whom replied "Dad put bars stop leak in it and did it wrong and it exploded"...... okaaayyyy

I then notice the brand new radiator, the new water pump and timing belt as written on the airbox
Hoodlining had a massive coolant bottle explosion on it.

Yup, the Head Gasket had failed at some point, exhaust gases entered the cooling system and BOOM!
And being a female owner, no doubt she kept driving it until failure.

And you recommend i buy a 2.5 with a repaired head gasket... okay then.

Out of all of them, id say the old EJ20 NA is the most reliable
But we are not going to buy a vehicle that old
The 2.5L, have had them before with no issues, but i'm very aware of the head Gasket problems, all 2.5L in my family have consumed water and oil.
3.0, never had one, but by all accounts, they are not as bad as the 2.5's.
And from all the researching i've done, the 2005 onwards 3.0R had a lot of changes and didn't suffer issues like the older variants of the H6.
(all of this can be Googled in seconds)

Yup, they are thirsty, knew that years ago.
10L/100hwy, i am happy with that.

I had a 2003-04 Nissan X-Trail picked out for her, also a 2005 Mazda 3... and i had found another Subaru Outback 3.0 Premium for less money.
She has had a 2.5L Subaru Liberty before in Gen4, it was fine and gave no trouble at all.

And after owning and living with an EJ20TT for years and modding it until cooked, i'm used to smells and visuals these engines display when on the way out.

[george65]

Then i asked the owner, whom replied "Dad put bars stop leak in it and did it wrong and it exploded"...... okaaayyyy
And you recommend i buy a 2.5 with a repaired head gasket... okay then.

Didn' t think I would have to spell out the bleeding obvious in getting one with the head gaskets done properly by a competent person rather than morons with bars leak, but if you think that example justifies your beliefs, no problem.

Out of all of them, id say the old EJ20 NA is the most reliable
But we are not going to buy a vehicle that old

Huh??? The very car you have bought came out with the EJ20 in NA. Exactly what is in my wifes car the same model as what you bought in the 6 Cyl hand grenade version. They made them up till the variable cam model engine which is better than the earlier engine by all accounts. Daughters Impreza has one as does Dads XV sedan with the CVT. Much better than the earlier 2.0 in power and economy and no issues with them at all. The only differences in the 2L earlier and late were the manifolds and the EGR. They are the SAME engine right through apart from that and can be interchanged if the EGR is tapped for the pipe and the right manifold off the old engine is fitted so it matches the computer and the cable or FBW throttle body.

Anyway, If you think the 3.0 is better than a 2.5, that's fine by me. I won't be the one that has to pay to replace it but when you do need one, got a pretty low mileage one in today for the gen 4. Won't sell it with any guarantees what so ever but if you want a 2.0 , plenty of them as nothing ever goes wrong ( apart from operator stupidity) and we will warrant one of those. Also have some recoed 2.5's with the gaskets, belt and pump done which will also warrant.

3.0, never had one, but by all accounts, they are not as bad as the 2.5's.
And from all the researching i've done, the 2005 onwards 3.0R had a lot of changes and didn't suffer issues like the older variants of the H6.
(all of this can be Googled in seconds)

Never had a 3.0 but they are better than the 2.5? YA! Can't wait to tell the boys that next week! :0)
Again, if that's what you want to think, not me that will be paying for the education in the old axiom of " Don't believe everything you read" . :0)

[ol' boy]

Didn' t think I would have to spell out the bleeding obvious in getting one with the head gaskets done properly by a competent person rather than morons with bars leak, but if you think that example justifies your beliefs, no problem.

Interesting, Yet Subaru themselves recommend as part or the 2.5L head gasket world wide fark up, in using the their "Subaru's" own slightly diluted engine stop leak product.
You must get around to reading the Subaru Bullitens one day george

[george65]

And what the hell has that got to do with idiots filling the things up with bars leak? Is that what Subaru recommend?
You will say anything to spin doctor things people say so you can ride your high horse no matter how irrelevant or pointless. Anyone that knew anything about subys would know to avoid 6Cyl engines like the plauge. The fact you think they are a better and more reliable engine than the 2.5 says all anyone needs to know. Typical, never owned one, obviously never worked on any but know all about it because you read about them.

How many KM on the thing you bought?

Good luck with it, You will need it and a lot more than you do realise.

[ol' boy]

And what the hell has that got to do with idiots filling the things up with bars leak? .

I know this is hard for you to comprehend... Because you can't fit a blow off valve, a front mount and 3" exhaust.

But if Subaru themselves are recommending using "ANY" type of coolant sealant, that in itself is admitting they have a fault!
I don't care what brand it is, the ingredients are the same, look it up. It is a Dealer Stop Leak, pure and simple!

And guess what, that is on a bulletin released for all EJ25 engine fitted vehicles.

[george65]

... And how many KM has the H6 you bought got that you COULD have got a 2L in the same model?