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Thread: Pajero smart alternator and aux battery

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    Unhappy Pajero smart alternator and aux battery

    Hi Team,

    I have a 100A/h aux battery in the rear of my 2014 nw Pajero that wont get charged by the vehicle alternator.

    There is also a 120W solar panel on the roof that charges the battery ok when the ignition is off.

    A change over relay auto changes the solar input and alternator input activated by the ign switch.

    There is a Power***h 12v/20A BC-DC charger that is wired back to the start battery which is supposed to charge the battery when ign is on and engine running.

    But it doesn't.

    The solar solar panel (7A full sun) will charge the battery ok. (ign off)

    I have read that the ECM computer system on the Pajero tells the smart alternator when to increase the charge current to compensate for greater loads.

    If that is the case I would assume that the aux battery would be another load, but the computer doesn't see it and wont charge it.

    Sorry to be a bit long winded but I stuffed if I know how to get around this problem to charge the aux battery.

    Many other brands or vehicles have this type of alternator also. (pain in ass).

    Can anyone help.

    TNX in advance.

    I
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    you have to parallel the two batterys and leave them to find their own balance which will happen over time then you can have both charging , a common problem on boats with house batteries etc . IE two/ three charging systems , two batterys but only one load start eng both charge of alt ,stop eng .charge of batt charger both batts if you want to isolate one do it with an isolator on each battery

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    Hi hinekadon
    No the battery under the bonnet is the factory fitted start battery, a flooded lead acid 750 cca.
    The aux battery used to run a fridge, is mounted 4 meters away in the rear of the vehicle connected by 6mm twin cable through a 20A BC-DC charger it is a 100 A/h AGM deep cycle battery not suitable for starting engines so the two can't be just wired together in parallel I don't think.

    Anyhow thanks for the reply
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    Hi Blackbiro

    Look up Redarc bcdc charging systems or try this link I know that they work with the smart style charging system and they support solar charging as well. the draw back is the cost but if you want a system to work correctly they are the way to go. The units are fully sealed and can be mounted pretty much any where but the best place is close to the 2nd battery as it will compensate for voltage drop if the 2nd battery is at the rear of vehicle or in a trailer.

    Cheers

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    The dcdc charger is an older type.

    Probably set to charge the second battery when input volts are above a nominal voltage, say 14+.

    So it would charge the second battery whenever a typical fixed voltage alternator is running.

    The smart alternator generally runs at a lower voltage

    Sent from my CLT-L29 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by hoe; 16-01-19 at 12:21 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbiro View Post
    Hi Team,

    There is a Power***h 12v/20A BC-DC charger that is wired back to the start battery which is supposed to charge the battery when ign is on and engine running.

    But it doesn't.

    The solar solar panel (7A full sun) will charge the battery ok. (ign off)

    I have read that the ECM computer system on the Pajero tells the smart alternator when to increase the charge current to compensate for greater loads.

    If that is the case I would assume that the aux battery would be another load, but the computer doesn't see it and wont charge it.

    I
    The smart alternator systems increase the charge voltage , not the current. The cars ECU does not directly "see" the second battery because the DC/DC unit is also an isolator. The DCDC does draw some current when the aux battery is dead flat but at other times it draws little.

    post up a link to the DCDC unit you have , its quite possible the threshold is set too high , and / or some bad joints may be affecting the threshold a bit

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    Ranger smart alternator does not produce enough current to charge a secondary battery, there fore you have to get the dealer to implement secondary battery mode, I have on order this item

    Seems to be cheaper than the Redarc, but seems to be no other way to charge your secondary battery now

    ps, other posters say you can damage your late model vehicle by not using theses
    Last edited by allover; 16-01-19 at 07:47 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Dave View Post
    Hi Blackbiro

    Look up Redarc bcdc charging systems or try this link
    + 1 for the Redarc.

    As mentioned, the one Dave mentioned is the older model.

    Here's the latest one which works with standard, variable voltage and smart alternators.



    It doesn't need a relay or solar regulator... all built into the unit.

    Even charges lithium batts.

    I have one on my dual battery system.... expensive, but it works perfectly.

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    IM a bit old school , all the extra so called good shit is just salesman crap that gets you to spend MONEY after owning several boats including a charter vessel with three banks of batterys to be charge from different sources wind /solar /aternater /mains etc the best system is to have isolator &a charging system wiring& a load so when all isolators are closed all batterys are being charged at the natural level this will take time to balance out but KISS is the answer not fancy crap to introduce other problems when you are 300 miles off shore with ten people aboard and the alternator craps out .

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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Dave View Post
    Hi Blackbiro

    Look up Redarc bcdc charging systems or try this link I know that they work with the smart style charging system and they support solar charging as well. the draw back is the cost but if you want a system to work correctly they are the way to go. The units are fully sealed and can be mounted pretty much any where but the best place is close to the 2nd battery as it will compensate for voltage drop if the 2nd battery is at the rear of vehicle or in a trailer.

    Cheers

    SS Dave
    Hi SS Dave,
    Yes thats the unit I have.
    My mistake in my first post I said Powertech but on checking it is the Redarc Bc-Dc 1220 unit so it should work ok according to the blurb.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoe View Post
    The dcdc charger is an older type.

    Probably set to charge the second battery when input volts are above a nominal voltage, say 14+.

    So it would charge the second battery whenever a typical fixed voltage alternator is running.

    The smart alternator generally runs at a lower voltage

    Sent from my CLT-L29 using Tapatalk
    Thanks hoe,
    All the parameters of this charger are fixed in the software/hardware so you cant alter settings as far as I know
    Tnx
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    Quote Originally Posted by VroomVroom View Post
    The smart alternator systems increase the charge voltage , not the current. The cars ECU does not directly "see" the second battery because the DC/DC unit is also an isolator. The DCDC does draw some current when the aux battery is dead flat but at other times it draws little.

    post up a link to the DCDC unit you have , its quite possible the threshold is set too high , and / or some bad joints may be affecting the threshold a bit
    Hi VroomVroom,

    The unit is the same one in SS Dave's reply, Redarc BC-DC 1220 (12v 20A).

    Charger is in the rear of the vehicle near the aux battery. There is a 4m cable of 6mm red/black going back to the start battery through a 30A Maxi fuse.

    Will check for voltage losses in the line tomorrow.

    Clamped to the Neg bat terminal is a shunt resistance which monitors load current and sends info back to the ECM computer.

    So does the computer see current flow or voltage drop through this shunt to control the charge current?

    Don't know, I am not a auto sparky.

    Getting a bit technical isn't it.

    But thanks for everyone's help so far.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbiro View Post
    Clamped to the Neg bat terminal is a shunt resistance which monitors load current and sends info back to the ECM computer.
    I dont ever remember seeing a shunt installed on a Pajero , the one i owned didnt have one though it was earlier model. But yes if you have a shunt the current draw can be measured. My new Prado doesnt have one ,the smart alternator in that only changes the voltage. Our new Triton doesnt have one either.

    Without seeing the car i cant know for sure what the problem could be.

    try joining the Pajero 4WD web forum , or facebook group , or the FB group called "Aussie 4WD Electrical" . at least then you can put up photos and go from there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbiro View Post
    Hi VroomVroom,

    The unit is the same one in SS Dave's reply, Redarc BC-DC 1220 (12v 20A).

    Charger is in the rear of the vehicle near the aux battery. There is a 4m cable of 6mm red/black going back to the start battery through a 30A Maxi fuse.

    Will check for voltage losses in the line tomorrow.

    Clamped to the Neg bat terminal is a shunt resistance which monitors load current and sends info back to the ECM computer.

    So does the computer see current flow or voltage drop through this shunt to control the charge current?

    Don't know, I am not a auto sparky.

    Getting a bit technical isn't it.

    But thanks for everyone's help so far.
    If that is 6mm auto cable, it's only about 4.5mm². Redarc recommend 6mm² minimum, but bigger is better. I'd be using 8mm² (8B&S) minimum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbiro View Post
    Hi VroomVroom,

    The unit is the same one in SS Dave's reply, Redarc BC-DC 1220 (12v 20A).

    Charger is in the rear of the vehicle near the aux battery. There is a 4m cable of 6mm red/black going back to the start battery through a 30A Maxi fuse.

    Will check for voltage losses in the line tomorrow.

    Clamped to the Neg bat terminal is a shunt resistance which monitors load current and sends info back to the ECM computer.

    So does the computer see current flow or voltage drop through this shunt to control the charge current?

    Don't know, I am not a auto sparky.

    Getting a bit technical isn't it.

    But thanks for everyone's help so far.
    there is no shunt period there is a negitive buss for earths to be bolted to there is no feedback according to the pajero circuit diagrams any where , and if there was it wouldnt be on the negative rail any way .Some bs going on here

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    Where is the power feed taken from?

    If directly from the battery post try taking it from the fuse box rail.

    Sent from my CLT-L29 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbiro View Post
    Hi hinekadon
    No the battery under the bonnet is the factory fitted start battery, a flooded lead acid 750 cca.
    The aux battery used to run a fridge, is mounted 4 meters away in the rear of the vehicle connected by 6mm twin cable through a 20A BC-DC charger it is a 100 A/h AGM deep cycle battery not suitable for starting engines so the two can't be just wired together in parallel I don't think.

    Anyhow thanks for the reply
    the alternator can read the lable on the battery so it dont know if its agp or flooded lead acid they both have the same charging characteristics your ecm computer does not know how many batterys it has hanging off the car it cant count them ??? it only sees a voltage source and goes when it applied to the circuits with in its range it has no current measuring systems only voltage control and the only control over the alternator is the field windings . lets make it clear volts only so when two batteries are connected it takes the highest voltage as the battery volts and wont charge the rest as it sees full volts therefore you have to allow both batteries to "catch up " with each other . ie starting the engine to get one battery to the same level as the other , or balanced . so called Smart alternators dont exist they are all the same despite the bs thats going on in this world . they all have a magnet rotating in a field to generate energy the second battery cant supply suficent current to start the engine so no harm can come from them being parralleled as the wires are too small to deliver the current for the starter to work . then that only leaves them to charge each other from their sources , You have a regulater on the solar and another regulator on the altenator they will do their individual jobs to control the source . any other shit that you put in your car is wasting energy and of no benefit to the batteries . if you want to speed up the balance point you can leave the headlights on untill they are at the same level then start using them and they will both charge from the same source to the same level . Hope this clears up any confusion . Regards Don

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    There is a lot of talk on the Ranger sites that the smart alternator only produces 12.5 volts(?) but the required voltage produced to charge a spare battery is 14.5 volts. Positive taken direct from battery but negative has to be directly to earth on body, not to negative terminal
    The dc to dc charger guarantees 13.5-14.5 volts feed to the spare battery
    Hope of some help
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    Quote Originally Posted by allover View Post
    There is a lot of talk on the Ranger sites that the smart alternator only produces 12.5 volts(?) but the required voltage produced to charge a spare battery is 14.5 volts. Positive taken direct from battery but negative has to be directly to earth on body, not to negative terminal
    The dc to dc charger guarantees 13.5-14.5 volts feed to the spare battery
    Hope of some help
    the reason for the negative going to the body is that its a bigger conductor therefore it has less resistance than a wire run to the terminal easy eh
    the regulator on the alternator does the regulating of the output voltage if its set at 12 volts it obviously only puts out 12 volts . you can set this to where ever its required to be . that dont make it "a smart alternator" 12.5 is enough to charge ant lead acid battery or two or three but it will be slow and the more batterys the longer it will take . charging is measured in "ampere hours " theres no secret here .energy in energy out . your so called dc to dc charger is simply a buck boost device a fet is used to wobble the 12 v then its transformed to a different voltage after rectification but the wattage remains the same .watts equals volts times amps . not that hard to understand . its called buck boost because the fet collapses the volts across the primary of the transformer which causes the transfer of energy to the secondary in watts it is then changed by diodes to dc and regulated to the required voltage , so 12 volts times 4 amps = 48 watts input output must equal input including losses so 48watts divided by 14.5 volts equals 3.310 amps minus losses say 20 percent so 4amps in less than 3 out ??? when a parallel battery system will do better given time to balance out cheers so here endth the lesson lol

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    BLUE wire - Input Trigger
    The BLUE wire is provided to select the units input trigger behaviour. This wire is monitored at all times.
    2.1.1 BCDC1220
    To charge from a 12V alternator simply connect the BLUE ‘Input Trigger’ wire to the RED ‘Input Positive’
    wire. Alternatively, the BLUE ‘Input Trigger’ wire can be connected to the vehicle ignition.
    NOTE: To charge from a 24V alternator the BLUE ‘Input Trigger’ wire must be connected to the vehicle ignition.
    2.1.2 BCDC1220-IGN
    To charge from either a 12V or 24V Variable Voltage or Smart Alternator system the BLUE ‘Input Trigger’ wire
    must always be connected to the vehicle ignition.
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