DSC PC1565 & NBN UNI-V - DTMF tones stopped working

[dazza60]

Hi Guys,

Have FTTN NBN with UNI-V IPPOTS voice via Telstra and the PC1565 is setup to do residential dialling to one of our mobiles when an alarm condition occurs.

This setup has been working fine for about the last 2 years for all aspects of the residential dialling protocol ie seizing the line, detecting a dial tone, dialling either the 1st or 3rd number, sending the audible tone when answered, acknowledging the handshake (via either * or # or 1 or 2 etc on the mobile keypad), sending an audible siren tone then hanging up.

However several weeks ago we had a false alarm happen and when it called my mobile the panel just ignored the handshake DTMF tone(s) then ended up in a trouble 4 condition after both mobiles had been called without acknowledgement.

Initially thought the mobiles might not be sending DTMF tones properly however they work OK via various IVR as well as calling a test phone number that I found that allows you to test DTMF tones.

I've seen references indicating that the PC1565 needs to "hear" a reasonably long DTMF handshake tone before it is happy but both the mobiles we have don't allow the DTMF tones to be varied.

What I have noticed is that if my IPPOTS phone initiates a call to either of the mobiles, when you try to send DTMF tones via the mobile keypad the tone is interrupted, that is the tone starts then after a few milliseconds stops then starts again and runs for a longer time than the 1st. However if I initiate the same call from one of the mobiles to the IPPOTS phone and try the same DTMF test the DTMF tones sent are not interrupted.

Calls to both Telstra and NBN both result in no solution because unless the voice service is "down" ie not able to make or receive calls then there's nothing they can do.

The only thing I can presume is that because the tones seem to be interrupted the panel is not identifying the handshake for long enough to acknowledge it.

From what is working I'm presuming that the panel is OK ie it is finding a dial tone, it is dialling numbers, it is hanging up and reporting the trouble 4 condition.

Wondering if anyone else has had these types of issues with DTMF tones over NBN UNI-V ports and or can suggest other things I could try.

thanks Dazza60

[xr5adam]

Alarms (older style) are not designed to work with VOIP, sometimes it will work and other times it will not work, you are now experiencing the will not work phase...

[madtech]

To put it bluntly - only an absolute _________ would try to get any form of dialler reporting to work over this wonderful piece of bovine excrement we call the nbn.

[secure]

What type of mobile phone do you have? I put a dsc panel on a 3G dialler and client had an oppo mobile and had same issue, but when tested to my iPhone it was ok.
At the end of the day telstra and nbn won't care as it is not a voice call issue. Any alarm dialling on NBN is hit and miss at best.

[dazza60]

Thanks guys for the input.

It's annoying that it has worked OK for several years albeit there hasn't been many times that it has alarmed and called the mobile(s).

The mobiles are an iPhone and a Samsung Galaxy.

I've seen references to the difficulties of DTMF over Voip and maybe in the past it NBN was routing the tone packets in a different way than it is doing now because of network congestion etc.

I guess it still serves some good in the fact that it calls us but then clearing the trouble 4 when the handshake is not working is a pain because the only way I know is to power cycle the panel then setup the date/time etc.

I might try and get it to call a non mobile number and see what happens just to test if the panel can detect the handshake.

Also I guess I could change the communicator reporting option to either Pager or Contract ID, neither of which need an acknowledgment which would at least stop the panel from going to trouble 4 status.

The other option might be to install a 3/4g dialler but from what I can see that's going to cost at least $150 (Ness) unless you guys have used others that are reasonably priced that work.

[xr5adam]

Thanks guys for the input.
Also I guess I could change the communicator reporting option to either Pager or Contract ID, neither of which need an acknowledgment which would at least stop the panel from going to trouble 4 status.

Contact ID requires a handshake from a receiver, so this will create more problems, than what you have now, These 3G devices, I have seen many that are grey imports and do not work, but you might have more luck,

You could always upgrade your panel / keypad to a newer system, this will solve your problem, or even pay for monitoring,

[dazza60]

Contact ID requires a handshake from a receiver, so this will create more problems, than what you have now, These 3G devices, I have seen many that are grey imports and do not work, but you might have more luck,

You could always upgrade your panel / keypad to a newer system, this will solve your problem, or even pay for monitoring,

Thanks xr5adam for your input but I don't want to upgrade or spend too much on this because we will most likely be selling this house within 12 months. Also thanks for the Contract ID info, I hadn't done much research before replying with that statement.

So the more I research I do the more I discover that although NBN claim to fully support DTMF over Uni-V using various standards like G711 & G729 compression and RFC2833 protocols, apparently when intercarrier switching occurs during the call things can go wrong.

I did get a the panel to recognise a handshake from a non mobile handset but it only worked once out of 3 tries. Anyway moving on now.

So I'm looking at the Ness 3g dialler and it seems there are 2 models that claim to be 3g, one has the Ness part # 106-249 and another with part # S5288, both claim to be Version 3. Also both claim to support both Contract ID and Voice. It seems that the S5288 might be a new version, can anyone verify this?

Also has anyone had success using residential dial reporting (ie voice)on PC1565 using DTMF acknowledgement via a mobile handset using the Ness 3g dialler? And has the panel received the handshake DTMF tone successfully and not gone into comms fail?

[xr5adam]

Thanks xr5adam for your input but I don't want to upgrade or spend too much on this because we will most likely be selling this house within 12 months. Also thanks for the Contract ID info, I hadn't done much research before replying with that statement.

So the more I research I do the more I discover that although NBN claim to fully support DTMF over Uni-V using various standards like G711 & G729 compression and RFC2833 protocols, apparently when intercarrier switching occurs during the call things can go wrong.

I did get a the panel to recognise a handshake from a non mobile handset but it only worked once out of 3 tries. Anyway moving on now.

So I'm looking at the Ness 3g dialler and it seems there are 2 models that claim to be 3g, one has the Ness part # 106-249 and another with part # S5288, both claim to be Version 3. Also both claim to support both Contract ID and Voice. It seems that the S5288 might be a new version, can anyone verify this?

Also has anyone had success using residential dial reporting (ie voice)on PC1565 using DTMF acknowledgement via a mobile handset using the Ness 3g dialler? And has the panel received the handshake DTMF tone successfully and not gone into comms fail?

I believe Ness sell two models, one with a sim and one without, the S5288 part number is an altronics part number, not Ness, I have had both success and failure with domestic dial using these devices, Voip and UNI-V

When seting these up I have a condition in the invoice that specifically says I am not responsible for any comms failures etc,

I would say that in the first 3 months, every one of them has called and complained about the panels not receiving the tones for acknowledgement, the call out fee to clear the faults would nearly pay for monitoring and getting a service, but hey just a tech, and as others will say what is cheaper up front is usually dearer in the end...

[secure]

That's just DSC panels for you. Most other brands don't have comms fault supervision on domestic dialling.