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Thread: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737

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    Default Interesting

    FAA to mandate Boeing software upgrade for 737 MAX fleet


    The US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has declined to ground the Boeing 737 MAX 8 in the United States.

    But it said it would mandate that American carriers install a software enhancement to the aircraft no later than next month, in response to last fall's Lion Air crash.

    "For the past several months, and in the aftermath of Lion Air Flight 610, Boeing has been developing a flight control software enhancement for the 737 MAX, designed to make an already safe aircraft even safer," Boeing said.

    "Boeing has been working closely with the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) on development, planning and certification of the software enhancement, and it will be deployed across the 737 MAX fleet in the coming weeks."
    If u want to go on an expedition get a Land Rover, if u want to come home from an expedition get a Landcruiser!



  • #22
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    On Mar 11th 2019 at 19:42Z the FAA announced: "Today, the FAA will issue a Continued Airworthiness Notification to the International Community (CANIC) for Boeing 737 MAX Operators."
    So apparently no concerns there. Who cares about any recorder boxes.


    This is not just a software issue, software will not stop the problem if something goes wrong.
    The problem is that the MCAS apparently does not disengage unless you are in an approach or change the trim. What I mentioned earlier about the flaps is not ideal at higher speeds and messing around with the trim is the last thing on your mind when it is nosediving.

    The problem is that it pushes the stick forwards(nose down) with so much force you can't pull back.
    The potential fault in the system is that it can push the plane's nose down "unexpectedly and so strongly" that pilots can't pull it back up even when flying manually


    Elsewhere I read that it could require 40kg to pull back !
    So unless Boeing confirms that they will build in a hardware full disengage of the MCAS at an applied counterforce of 10 kg or less on the column(this requires hardware), I am not going to travel in a MAX, period
    There should never be anything locking up the steering column like that!

    This plane is not airworthy when it can't be freely manually flown in an emergency.


    As for the 737 in general, it has always been a robust airframe :
    ... as long as you looked after it well, which Aloha Airlines didn't.

    However this incident reminds me of the stubbornness from Boeing and the authorities we are seeing currently and I can remember it on Air Crash Investigations:

    Only until it happened again was the case re-opened and the fault found (although already suggested in 585) and solved:

    While this flight had the same reverse rudder problem but the pilots managed to save it:

    Spooky deja vu here.
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 12-03-19 at 06:56 PM.
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    It is going to make a very interesting episode of "Air Disasters" if they roll the Lion Air and Ethiopian Air in the one show
    Especially if both Blackbox's give identical data leading to the crash

    Photos of the hole the Ethiopian plane made are insane!!!
    It was no glide to the ground!

    There is one thing i don't really understand, the loss of data recording by ground radios when it descended?
    Was it out of range, hence that wasn't record?
    Or something else?
    Last edited by ol' boy; 12-03-19 at 06:43 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nomeat View Post
    As for the 737 in general, it has always been a robust airframe :
    ... as long as you looked after it well, which Aloha Airlines didn't.

    However this incident reminds me of the stubbornness from Boeing and the authorities we are seeing currently and I can remember it on Air Crash Investigations:

    Only until it happened again was the case re-opened and the fault found (although already suggested in 585) and solved:
    Yeah, I was searching for those incidents to make a similar comment, there was also (and others)

    Which helped them pin down PCU thermal shock issues as the culprit
    Cheers
    Ted (Al)

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    Quote Originally Posted by oceanboy View Post
    It is going to make a very interesting episode of "Air Disasters" if they roll the Lion Air and Ethiopian Air in the one show
    Especially if both Blackbox's give identical data leading to the crash

    Photos of the hole the Ethiopian plane made are insane!!!
    It was no glide to the ground!

    There is one thing i don't really understand, the loss of data recording by ground radios when it descended?
    Was it out of range, hence that wasn't record?
    Or something else?
    The data provided by Flightradar24 and FlightAware is based on volunteers ADS-B transceivers picking up data transmitted by the aircraft. There is likely not many in the area where the aircraft crashed. The authorities will have access to their own transceivers but that data is not made public.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Bundy View Post
    Yeah, I was searching for those incidents to make a similar comment, there was also (and others)

    Which helped them pin down PCU thermal shock issues as the culprit
    Yes I found that too and was just editing my post and saw your post afterwards
    Update: A deletion of features that work well and ain't broke but are deemed outdated in order to add things that are up to date and broken.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mi_tasol View Post
    The data provided by Flightradar24 and FlightAware is based on volunteers ADS-B transceivers picking up data transmitted by the aircraft. There is likely not many in the area where the aircraft crashed. The authorities will have access to their own transceivers but that data is not made public.
    Yeah, i figured their wouldn't be many volunteers in Ethiopia
    If u want to go on an expedition get a Land Rover, if u want to come home from an expedition get a Landcruiser!

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    australia stops any coming in or out aswell


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    Would be interesting to hear from any of the 100's of Boeing 737 MAX 8 pilots

    Not sure if they are allowed to speak publicly??
    I know of 2 pilots that admit losing their jobs because of their YouTube channels, they now fly cargo

    You'd have to imagine the pilots and crew wouldn't be real happy if asked to keep flying these planes
    Fiji Airlines has said they will keep flying, same with many others
    The "Whats App" messages between pilots must be very interesting.

    The Boeing 737 MAX 8 is the most profitable aircraft of its kind for Carriers
    Indo has ordered 200 and taken deliverer of 11
    There is a lot of money on the table here, Boeing have a lot to protect!
    Last edited by ol' boy; 12-03-19 at 08:11 PM.
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    The news tonight says that Aust have also stopped them, too.
    I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...

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    Shit’s getting real, EASA just shut them down

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    the poms have done the same as the aussies and not letting any in or out , looks like only
    the good old usa is not stopping them

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    Yet Canada is still flying theirs and they lost 18 lives in the crash including a 9 month old baby girl

    “If the FAA identifies an issue that affects safety, the department will take immediate and appropriate action,” Ms Chao told reporters. “I want people to be assured that we take these incidents, these accidents very seriously.” Canada’s transport minister said he would not hesitate to act once the cause of the crash is known.
    Wonder what the International Pilots Association has to say

    What a shit storm in Canada




    Yet Ontario is banning the mobile phone from school class rooms....
    Last edited by ol' boy; 13-03-19 at 07:46 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oceanboy View Post
    Y...........................

    Yet Ontario is banning the mobile phone from school class rooms....
    That's probably so their budding morons will maybe get an education and be better prepared for life that our budding morons.
    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

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    Default MCAS software update coming



    It is looking to be what a lot of experienced pilots have been suggesting for days now
    A malfunctioning system, but worse, pilots with low experience in manual flying and disabling systems like in a lesser aircraft
    The Ethiopian AIrline CEO came out to say the Pilot had 200 hours of flight time.... Doesn't sound like much.


    American Airlines flight attendants have voiced their concerns:

    American Airlines flight attendants call for Boeing 737 MAX-8 to be grounded: “We are calling on our CEO Doug Parker to strongly consider grounding these planes until a thorough investigation can be performed. While we cannot draw premature conclusion.”
    Air Canada Crew have also voiced their concerns

    Air Canada flight attendants’ union says crew don’t want to be forced to fly on Boeing 737 MAX 8
    Last edited by ol' boy; 13-03-19 at 09:35 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oceanboy View Post
    ...........................................

    The Ethiopian AIrline CEO came out to say the Pilot had 200 hours of flight time.... Doesn't sound like much.

    ........................................
    Dunno where that came from OB.



    Mr GebreMariam told reporters the pilot was given clearance to turn back after reporting a problem — citing the air traffic controllers record.

    He added the pilot had an “excellent flying record” and clocked up more than 8000 hours experience.
    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

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    Sam isn't a bad watch, some information that hasn't been released in the media here



    When you have the best mustache in the business, you should be listened too

    Last edited by ol' boy; 13-03-19 at 09:56 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by enf View Post
    Dunno where that came from OB.

    One of many reports


    Obviously they got their Pilot and First Officer mixed up

    Last edited by ol' boy; 13-03-19 at 09:52 AM.
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    When stating the number of flying hours, the figures don't include hours on 'type' of aircraft.

    Given the 737-MAX is a relatively new model, with some significant changes in design and control systems, pilots may possibly not have had a lot of operating experience and limited training on type.

    The MCAS system employed on the MAX only operates when the aircraft if flown manually and can be overridden.

    I'm not sure if it was covered in some of the links in this thread, but there were reports of witnesses on the ground saying they saw smoke coming from the rear of the plane before it crashed.

    If control of the horizontal stabiliser was affected by some form of fire/explosion, the result would likely have been no control over the pitch of the nose.

    'If' the MCAS did input false angle of attack data and cause the nose to pitch down, the system can be overridden, which should enable pilots to regain control of the aircraft.

    Either way, loss of control of the horizontal stabiliser, especially at low altitude, doesn't give pilots much time to attempt any form of recovery, which in most cases, recovery from such a failure is unlikely.

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