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Thread: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737

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    Quote Originally Posted by oceanboy View Post
    One of many reports


    Obviously they got their Pilot and First Assistant mixed up
    Typical example how filtered press works or just pure ignorance of reporters but they did say a pilot.
    The reality was that the copilot had 200h and the pilot 8000h, this was mentioned on ABC news already in their first report.
    It is also mentioned straight away on the avherald link I provided in my first post.
    The captain was with Ethiopian Airlines for 9 years and had about 8000 hours of flight experience, a first officer with 200 flight hours assisted,
    It does pay to check out the links I provide, like I do with links other members provide before I post something that might be incorrect.
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    Seems Canadian pilots have been texting

    Last edited by ol' boy; 13-03-19 at 10:18 AM.
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    Very Interesting:

    If u want to go on an expedition get a Land Rover, if u want to come home from an expedition get a Landcruiser!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtv View Post
    I'm not sure if it was covered in some of the links in this thread, but there were reports of witnesses on the ground saying they saw smoke coming from the rear of the plane before it crashed.

    If control of the horizontal stabiliser was affected by some form of fire/explosion, the result would likely have been no control over the pitch of the nose.

    Pilots did request to turn back reporting difficulties to control the aircraft but no mention of fire, smoke or explosion, which you would think they would have reported.
    Can't find that those witness reports have been officially confirmed, you would think Boeing would jump all over them.
    AVherald which I consider a very reliable source does not mention them.

    Fact is, fire or not, if the flight controls can be intentionally locked up, a stupid and arrogant engineering design, the plane is not airworthy.

    and probably the first time where I actually agree with Trump:
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    Other reports of 737 MAX 8 nose dives are surfacing, this time 2 US pilots
    On top the Euro report i mentioned earlier....

    To date, this is the current list of groundings.

    Groundings by country:

    Australia
    Bermuda
    China
    European Union
    Fiji
    India
    Indonesia
    Kuwait
    Malaysia
    Norway
    Oman
    Singapore
    Turkey
    United Arab Emirates
    United Kingdom
    Vietnam


    The list missed New Zealand, which has also grounded the 737 MAX
    And is most likely why Fiji HAD to join the list
    Actually, the ABC have compiled a terrible list, they have missed heaps of countries

    Last edited by ol' boy; 13-03-19 at 12:47 PM.
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    Nosedives with Autopilot engaged as well?
    That sure adds fuel to the fire.
    Don't be too harsh with the ABC for not being fully up to date.
    They did mention more than 40 countries in the report and more countries are probably banning MAX flights as we speak.
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 13-03-19 at 01:16 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nomeat View Post
    Nosedives with Autopilot engaged as well?
    That sure adds fuel to the fire.
    What is really disturbing is the hole in the ground with Ethiopian crash
    Generally in an air disaster (apart from a missile attack) the pilot has partial control and can keep some forward momentum and plane crashes over a longish distance with wreckage scattered along that pathway

    This seems like a pin drop from the sky!
    The crater is huge!

    Would have to signal there was No Control the Pilot could input to change that situation.

    Would be like being in a car who's Cruiser Control just engaged and sent you at an ever increasing speed into a corner or worse a dead end

    I guess we can all look for forward to this type of thing when the Self Driving cars hit the market
    Last edited by ol' boy; 13-03-19 at 01:42 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oceanboy View Post
    What is really disturbing is the hole in the ground with Ethiopian crash
    Generally in an air disaster (apart from a missile attack) the pilot has partial control and can keep some forward momentum and plane crashes over a longish distance with wreckage scattered along that pathway

    This seems like a pin drop from the sky!
    The crater is huge!

    Would have to signal there was No Control the Pilot could input to change that situation.

    Would be like being in a car who's Cruiser Control just engaged and sent you at an ever increasing speed into a corner or worse a dead end

    I guess we can all look for forward to this type of thing when the Self Driving cars hit the market
    It's not the market they'll hit....
    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

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    Donald Trumpt's tweet, although simplistic, also has a voice of reason about it.

    Basically saying, i'd rather have a good pilot than a good computer flying my plane.

    If the 737 MAX 8 has this system to counter act the weight and shifted location of the new engines, surely a pilot could handle that?
    Or at least just have an alarm for it
    All the pilots that fly low dumping 100,000 kilos of water on bush fires know how to take very evasive action when all that weight is released at once
    If u want to go on an expedition get a Land Rover, if u want to come home from an expedition get a Landcruiser!

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    Quote Originally Posted by oceanboy View Post
    What is really disturbing is the hole in the ground with Ethiopian crash
    Generally in an air disaster (apart from a missile attack) the pilot has partial control and can keep some forward momentum and plane crashes over a longish distance with wreckage scattered along that pathway

    This seems like a pin drop from the sky!
    The crater is huge!

    Would have to signal there was No Control the Pilot could input to change that situation.

    Would be like being in a car who's Cruiser Control just engaged and sent you at an ever increasing speed into a corner or worse a dead end

    I guess we can all look for forward to this type of thing when the Self Driving cars hit the market
    The analogy with a car on the highway is more like the antitheft locking of your steering wheel is suddenly engaged as well as your accelerator by wire is shorted out to full (to simulate Earth's acceleration) and multiply that by 10 or more.
    They were already flying 750km/h and then nosedived from 3km height.
    The vertical speed upon impact may have been supersonic.

    I have driverless cars buzzing around my head ATM too
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    Quote Originally Posted by nomeat View Post

    I have driverless cars buzzing around my head ATM too
    The Ford Ranger Wildtrack already steers you back into your lane if you drift off it and has autonomous emergency braking
    Sensors.... its all sensors
    If u want to go on an expedition get a Land Rover, if u want to come home from an expedition get a Landcruiser!

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    Quote Originally Posted by oceanboy View Post
    The Ford Ranger Wildtrack already steers you back into your lane if you drift off it and has autonomous emergency braking
    Sensors.... its all sensors
    Not too concerned about these driver assist measures as long as I ALWAYS have the ability to IMMEDIATELY interact if I notice something wrong.
    In this case one light twist of the steering wheel or in the MAX a reasonably light tug on the column and I have full manual control again.
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 13-03-19 at 02:44 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oceanboy View Post
    The Ford Ranger Wildtrack already steers you back into your lane if you drift off it and has autonomous emergency braking
    Sensors.... its all sensors
    Quote Originally Posted by nomeat View Post
    Not too concerned about these driver assist measures as long as I ALWAYS have the ability to IMMEDIATELY interact if I notice something wrong.
    My 2017 SSV Redline has these sensors. I leave the lane following off as it often doesn't like you taking a line on a corner as it thinks you're drifting. The crash avoidance goes off and gives you a moment to take control before it applies braking, although it's accuracy is problematic at times.
    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

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    Even though its early days.....
    Who made these AOA sensors?
    Local Product? Imported?

    Boeing a proud US Company.... hopefully it won't be found using chinese sensors

    This is interesting, published Nov, 2018.

    Last edited by ol' boy; 13-03-19 at 04:09 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oceanboy View Post
    Even though its early days.....
    Who made these AOA sensors?
    Local Product? Imported?

    Boeing a proud US Company.... hopefully it won't be found using chinese sensors

    This is interesting, published Nov, 2018.

    Huawei???

    Wouldn't THAT send Trump apoplectic....!!
    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

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    Oh dear.... the voices are growing

    If u want to go on an expedition get a Land Rover, if u want to come home from an expedition get a Landcruiser!

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    I find it disturbing that boeing were not advising the grounding of their plane, it was left to the regulators to demand the grounding

    It would seem, IMHO, that Boeing's priority is not to their passengers/airlines but to their own bottom line

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    Given the altitude of the plane, the pilots would not have had all that much time to respond to a sudden nose dive. Pilots dumping retardants on fires are prepared for the effects of a sudden change in attitude because of the release of said retardants. At the speed they were travelling, (approx 200m/s) that gave them approx 10 seconds to respond correctly. (Their max altitude was only 5000ft).
    I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...

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    I see the USA are standing fast on their word to keep flying the Boeing 737 MAX 8

    While other countries, including one carrier in Canada are suspending using the 737 for economic reasons
    Basically because they cant fly into the air space of countries that have imposed a blanket ban on the 737 MAX entering

    While Egypt and Honk Kong have both recently banned the aircraft from its air space
    Last edited by ol' boy; 13-03-19 at 09:35 PM.
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    Oh this is good.....

    The rest of Canada finally grounded its Boeing 737 MAX fleet, leaving the USA standing almost alone by continuing to fly them
    Maybe because Boeing is in the USA??? Pride??

    But now Trump announces US will order Boeing 737 Max 8s and 9s grounded

    President Trump, speaking Wednesday afternoon at the White House, announced that the US would be issuing an "emergency order to ground all 737 Max 8 and the 737 Max 9, and planes associated with that line."

    He added that both the FAA and Boeing were "in agreement with the action," and any planes currently in the air would continue to their destination where they will be grounded.

    "Pilots have been notified, airlines have been all notified. Airlines are agreeing with this. The safety of the American people and all people is our paramount concern," the President said.
    What a funny country the USA is

    It continues....

    Trump says he worked with Canada and other countries in grounding 737 Max 8
    From CNN’s Kevin Liptak
    President Trump said he spoke with a number of airlines as well, including American Airlines, before grounding the Boeing 737 Max 8.

    He said he also worked closely with Canada and other countries. Trump said this was the best decision, “psychologically and in other ways.”

    He said the FAA will be making an announcement within half an hour.
    What a change of heart from Boeing, that said yesterday, there was nothing wrong with its aircraft

    "We are supporting this proactive step out of an abundance of caution. Safety is a core value at Boeing for as long as we have been building airplanes; and it always will be," Dennis Muilenburg, president of Boeing, said.
    Last edited by ol' boy; 14-03-19 at 06:08 AM.
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