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Thread: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737

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    Default Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737

    I know it is a long way from our shores
    But a plane that was brand new, that first flew Oct 2018!



    Ethiopian Airlines flight #ET302 has been involved in an accident after take off from Addis Ababa Airport in Ethiopia.
    Flight #ET302 took off at 05:38 UTC time and Flightradar24 tracked the flight for about 3 minutes before signal was lost at 05:41 UTC time.
    The initial data from Flightradar24 ADS-B network indicate that vertical speed was unstable directly after take off.
    Please note that Addis Ababa Airport is located at about 7,625 feet AMSL so the last altitude report from 8600 feet is just about 1000 feet above the level of the airport.
    Flight #ET302 was performed by a Boeing 737 MAX 8 aircraft with registration ET-AVJ and serial number 62450. First flight was in October 2018.
    Lot of talk about the 737 MAX 800 and other downings after take off
    Many asking for all of them to be grounded

    Virgin AU has 30 Boeing 737 MAX on order

    2 BRAND NEW aircraft of this max,crashes in less than 6 months in what seems to be a very similar style (just after take off) ... cannot be coincidence.
    Looking at the data, its looks very sudden!
    Not much data showing a pilot fighting his aircraft to the ground.... Just, signal lost.



    Last edited by ol' boy; 10-03-19 at 10:29 PM.
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    The Lion Air crash with the 737-8 MAX was also new and is still under investigation and definitely related to a fault with the aircraft where the crew were not instructed how to deal with sensor errors and disable the auto stall correction. Surely Boeing would have ensured that all pilots including Ethiopian would have been instructed now how to deal with this.

    While there is no evidence yet that it is a similar issue here, the discussion is understandably pretty hot:



    ...and yes I will not be getting in a 737 MAX.
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 10-03-19 at 11:34 PM.
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    Eyewitness's at the crash site said the plane just plummeted straight down, no flames, it literally just flew into the ground
    Then smoke and flames

    The pictures from the crash site would reflect exactly that, just horrible.
    37 Miles from the airport it took off from.

    As you say nomeat, its looking very similar to Lion Air... 2 new planes... looking like someone is liable
    Lion Air 7 minutes from take off
    Ethiopian 3-6 minutes from take off

    When investigators compare blackbox recorders, it will be interesting.
    May have something to do with this new system implemented or the pilots in ability to override it



    Those poor passengers and crew, just shouldn't happen in this day and age.

    Last edited by ol' boy; 11-03-19 at 06:21 AM.
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    very sad indeed.
    that graph shows the airspeed increasing and nowhere near stall speed , so if that MCAS system kicked in there was no reason for it. Hopefully all be be answered soon and then flying will be safer for all

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    Reports out of China that all MAX's are being grounded, Cayman Airways has grounded it's MAX's as well - all precautionary of course, but not a good look for Boeing.

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    A witness said it appeared to be "porpoising" prior to going down.

    Strong suggestion to me that the system described in hoe's article could be the culprit.
    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by enf View Post
    A witness said it appeared to be "porpoising" prior to going down.

    Strong suggestion to me that the system described in hoe's article could be the culprit.
    Only the airspeed was increasing in the data captured, so you would wonder why that system would come into play
    We are all armchair experts... I was going to post earlier if some governing body would ground these aircraft until the cause was found

    Just imagine the money!!!
    There is a snapshot picture of all the 737 MAX 8 in the air currently, there is a bloody lot of them!

    Good to see some carries or countries are taking these measures, can you imagine if there was a 3rd accident post take off....

    Reports of grounded 737 MAX aircraft...


    Last edited by ol' boy; 11-03-19 at 01:25 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oceanboy View Post
    Only the airspeed was increasing in the data captured, so you would wonder why that system would come into play
    We are all armchair experts... I was going to post earlier if some governing body would ground these aircraft until the cause was found

    .............................
    Yes, you WOULD wonder why it was in play, thus a problem for the pilots if it was and they didn't know.

    I'm not even an armchair expert....
    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

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    The handle broke on my armchair.....

    Yeah, you're right enf, there was talk of some sensor not reading correctly, thus who knows what interaction this may caused.

    There is another report of the same aircraft in Europe where the pilot had to fight it home, landed safely, but still, sounds like an automated system kept intervening
    The spot light is sure on it now!

    Sadly of no relief to those killed and their families

    About the only relief is this guy, he arrived late and was told he had missed his flight and to take the next one.

    Last edited by ol' boy; 11-03-19 at 01:45 PM.
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    Hoe's link is the second time I read that simply lowering the flaps(a little) disables this MCAS.
    So how come we armchair pilots can know this but these real pilots didn't, assuming that was the cause ?

    To me MCAS reads like a bandaid for a dodgy design. Even if it were proven that all 3 sensors were OK and something totally different caused this terrible incident, the MAX's performance is naturally unbalanced and breaking the laws of safe aircraft designs: two or more faults are required before a plane can crash. With Lion Air and possibly here it looks like just one incorrect sensor interpretation was enough.
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 11-03-19 at 02:27 PM.
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    So much for a clinical accident scene for investigators
    How do they piece to together the plane now its trampled all over?
    Maybe digging for remaining bodies and blackbox?

    Last edited by ol' boy; 11-03-19 at 05:53 PM.
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    I wonder what Boeing were doing behind the scenes re this fault before this crash occurred ??, and could/should they have grounded the 737 MAX fleet prior to a planned fix ??

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    The Boeing 737 in whatever guise is an accident waiting to happen.

    If you watched Air Crash Investigation you will have noticed that the majority of accidents were 737s. Yes I know they are the majority of planes but even so ...

    As far as I can remember, in all cases, it was pilot error not Boeing's crappy design despite the latter being quite obvious from the comments in the programs.

    In regard to the Lion Air crash there was an illuminating article in The Australian, by a pilot, regarding the 737s system. I cannot find it online though.
    Last edited by Guiseppe; 11-03-19 at 04:48 PM.
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    But the initial findings have highlighted a possible sensor problem, and that has been enough for Boeing to issue safety warnings to all the airlines that operate those planes, telling pilots to brush up on how to deal with confusing readings or erratic actions from the flight control computer, which could cause the planes to dive, hard.
    Brush Up????????? WTF????????

    The FAA made it mandatory for US airlines to comply. I wonder if others did.
    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guiseppe View Post
    The Boeing 737 in whatever guise is an accident waiting to happen.

    If you watched Air Crash Investigation you will have noticed that the majority of accidents were 737s. Yes I know they are the majority of planes but even so ...

    As far as I can remember, in all cases, it was pilot error not Boeing's crappy design despite the latter being quite obvious from the comments in the programs.

    In regard to the Lion Air crash there was an illuminating article in The Australian, by a pilot, regarding the 737s system. I cannot find it online though.
    Sorry Giuseppe, that’s just crap, the 737 is one of the most flown aircraft in the world, yes there have been issues with the latest MAX but to tarnish the entire range in such a way is just wrong and smacks of media experts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mi_tasol View Post
    the 737 is one of the most flown aircraft in the world.
    That is exactly the problem - too many to ground so fly in a 737 at your peril ...
    If Australia is a democracy why, then, is voting compulsory?

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    I can almost hear the ambulance chasers ..................errrr I mean lawyers sharpening their pencils

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    The black box from the flight has been found, Ethiopian Airlines has confirmed.

    The black box -- or digital flight data recorder -- will provide the first clues as to what caused the Ethiopian Airlines plane to crash just six minutes after takeoff.

    The flight's cockpit voice recorder has also been recovered, the airline said.

    Accident Bulletin no. 6
    Issued on March 11, 2019 at 01:40 PM Local Time
    The Digital Flight Data Recorder(DFDR) and Cockpit Voice Recorder(CVR) of ET302 have been Recovered.
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    Default Singapore bans all 737 MAX 8 in and out of the country

    There is a growing list of Carriers that have grounded the Boeing 737 MAX 8 around the world
    But Singapore went one better, suspending the operation of the Boeing 737 MAX in or out of its airport, no matter what carrier it is

    What i find interesting is Lion Air still flying its Boeing 737 MAX 8 aircraft
    And Malaysia Airlines are still flying their Boeing 737 MAX 8 aircraft, a carrier you'd think could least afford another air disaster



    The Civil Aviation Authority of Singapore (CAAS) is temporarily suspending operation of all variants of the Boeing 737 MAX aircraft into and out of Singapore in light of two fatal accidents involving Boeing 737 MAX aircraft in less than five months. The suspension will take effect from 1400hrs, 12 March 2019
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