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    Default Zero Point Energy

    Hi guys

    This may seem like a strange post, but has anyone hear of Zero Point Energy. We're talking Tesla stuff here

    Cheers



Look Here ->
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    Zero-point energy (ZPE) is the difference between the lowest possible energy that a quantum mechanical system may have, and the classical minimum energy of the system. Unlike in classical mechanics, quantum systems constantly fluctuate in their lowest energy state due to the Heisenberg uncertainty principle.
    . Please treat people as you would like to be treated yourself.

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    It's science fiction stuff at this stage.


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    You lost me at Tesla.
    The hero of every crackpot and the basis for all crackpot energy Science.
    The man and his principals etc may have been OK but the way every energy dreamer out there maligns everything using his work as proof of their theoretical basis is nothing but garbage and more often than not, a scam.

    I don't see what the big deal with free energy is anyway or why people are so obsessed with it. I have been using it in real world practical everyday applications for years and I can easily demo0nstrate it to anyone that wants to see it.

    One form is solar generated electricity which I get 10's of KW every day and the other is waste Vegetable Oil which restaurants give me for free. 2000Kwh worth of power in every 44 gallon drum I have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by securityalarmguy64 View Post
    Hi guys

    This may seem like a strange post, but has anyone hear of Zero Point Energy. We're talking Tesla stuff here

    Cheers
    And your point of raising it is?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtv View Post
    And your point of raising it is?
    He just watched an episode of Stargate for the first time?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by george65 View Post
    The hero of every crackpot and the basis for all crackpot energy Science.
    You summed it up in the first sentence.
    Free energy, you mean economically free. In this forum you will obey the laws of thermodynamics


    Zero point energy. Yes science fiction stargate stuff.
    Though as mentioned by hinekadon it is part of quantum physics. The rule is very simple.

    You can have as much energy as you like for free (almost) from the universe. But the more you borrow, the sooner you have to pay it back.
    And this is in terms of single particles. There are 6.65 10^18 electrons in one Coulomb (1 amp second).

    You borrow 1 amp from the universe, it is going to send some guys around after one millionth of a picosecond to break your legs as down payment.
    Yes I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.

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    stargate were using it years ago

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    I never cease to be amazed at the people on Yt and other places that rig up a bunch of flywheels and pulleys and then claim the thing makes energy when the frictional losses are manyfold Of the claims from crap like Hohoho gas that supposedly save the 50% of wasted fuel en engine supposedly doesen't burn.

    Some of these people are just scammers and some are deluded but what really gets me is all the people wanting plans and asking where can they buy this and clearly falling for it.
    Seems a LOT of them are punjabs for some reason but there are a lot of westerners that not only fall for it but will argue it is real and anyone that does not accept it is a shill for big oil or the gubbermint or some other crap.

    It's no wonder there are so many scammers around when there are so many idiots to take money from.

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    There is a sucker born every minute. Unfortunately it's not that simple.

    So most people understand that you don't get something for nothing and certainly not from the universe.
    They understand free energy is just bullshit.

    There are of course those on the mental health spectrum who honestly believe that somebody is hiding the truth from them.
    They believe that they can find the truth. Most of these people are harmless and are only deluding themselves.

    Some of them are snake oil salesmen and will prey on the people who are easy targets.
    And nobody is safe from them. The face of the scam changes, but the how people get scammed is the same.


    Another aspect is that real engineers sometimes look at such things seriously.
    They will invest real time in at least investigating why it doesn't work and most of them will walk away from it.
    But even some of those people can be tricked into buying the bullshit, at least until it is too late.

    And if there is one thing scammers can count on, their victims will protect them.
    Rather than look the fool they would sooner let the scammer walk free. We blame the victims as if they deserved to be scammed.
    It's akin to saying a women deserved to be raped because they looked good.


    I'm a member of a fakebook group. Recently a member asked about if a specific product was any good.
    Several wonderful reviews of the product came flowing in and then some arsehole pointedout that this product was "homeopathy".
    IT'S BULLSHIT.

    How many people do you think "really, I didn't realise it was nothing but a bottle of tap water?"
    Nope, not one of them. They were all drinking the koolaid like was 1978 again in Jonestown.
    Yes I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.

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    I just have an open mind and that doesn't mean that I believe everything I read. I've heard lots of interesting stuff about free energy and yet the "Tesla" name does get thrown around a bit. Again, doesn't mean I believe all I read, but, neither do I disregard it because it doesn't currently fit within my tidy view of Newtonian Physics.

    Thats all

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    It would be ignorant to think we know all there is to know about energy/ physics already and there aren't more discoveries to be made.

    I think it's more ignorant however to think that some guy messing with wires and pulleys and distilling water really has come up with some world changing breakthrough and put it all over YT.
    if one had the brains and smarts to come up with some new discovery, I doubt they would be stupid enough to not recognise the vast fortunes it could bring them and give the game away by publicising it on YT. :0)

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    Quote Originally Posted by securityalarmguy64 View Post
    neither do I disregard it because it doesn't currently fit within my tidy view of Newtonian Physics.
    It is this statement that explains how the scammers get their foot in the door.
    You don't invite them in, you just leave the door unlocked.

    You should disregard any theory if it doesn't fit. Newtonian physics is very well established and it is a rock solid foundation.
    Now lets consider relativity which you might consider conflicts with Newtonian physics.
    No it does not. It compliments Newtonian physics and builds upon it.

    Now if your new friend tells you your existing friends are bad and that he really is your best friend because he would never lie to you.

    Your tidy view of reality, IS reality. This new mysterious concept should compliment reality. If it doesn't, it's a grift!


    The burden of proof is upon the scammer. You are under no obligation to take a chance on a new theory.
    What do you gain? Some special privilege? Some claim to fame or share of it?
    You new friend Albert Einstein tells you he has this great new theory of relativity and tells you about it.
    Do you get a share in the Nobel prize? A chance to steal the credit or invest in Albert's new theory for few bucks?

    And it should be your job as a good friend and for you own safety to be as critical of the new theory as possible.
    Your words should be, "I tried to discredit it to my best ability and if I can't, I should get other people to check what I can't."
    If any of them as suspect of a scam, then I should follow that lead, not defend the scam but try to catch it.
    Yes I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.

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    [QUOTE=trash;801396]It is this statement that explains how the scammers get their foot in the door.
    You don't invite them in, you just leave the door unlocked.

    You should disregard any theory if it doesn't fit. Newtonian physics is very well established and it is a rock solid foundation.
    Now lets consider relativity which you might consider conflicts with Newtonian physics.
    No it does not. It compliments Newtonian physics and builds upon it.

    Now if your new friend tells you your existing friends are bad and that he really is your best friend because he would never lie to you.

    Your tidy view of reality, IS reality. This new mysterious concept should compliment reality. If it doesn't, it's a grift!


    The burden of proof is upon the scammer. You are under no obligation to take a chance on a new theory.
    What do you gain? Some special privilege? Some claim to fame or share of it?
    You new friend Albert Einstein tells you he has this great new theory of relativity and tells you about it.
    Do you get a share in the Nobel prize? A chance to steal the credit or invest in Albert's new theory for few bucks?

    And it should be your job as a good friend and for you own safety to be as critical of the new theory as possible.
    Your words should be, "I tried to discredit it to my best ability and if I can't, I should get other people to check what I can't."
    If any of them as suspect of a scam, then I should follow that lead, not defend the scam but try to catch it.[

    The more we discover about the subatomic world, the more we discover that we know nothing about the true nature of reality at all. Some say we are living an illusion being able to see only a small fraction of what is actually all around us. To question things without initial proof should be encouraged but not promoted as fact until it can be replicated by others. I get that. Things are a changing (im sure someone will put that in quotes). The subatomic world seems to act differently to the atomic world, a fact that scientists know but cant work out or provide formulas for yet. Einstein died knowing this but not being able to complete his projects. Im not saying Newtonian laws will be proved wrong. They work in the current illusion we are living in. We will soon know the nature of the subatomic world and this will greatly change and challenge our current knowledge and understanding of everything.
    My views of course which I can't prove. Only time will tell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by securityalarmguy64 View Post
    They work in the current illusion we are living in.
    Reality isn't in the illusion. That is the wrong way to think about it. Our understanding of reality works really well.
    You're under no illusion when you experience 10000Ns of Newtonian physics
    Shit falls on you, there is no illusion of your death.

    Being open to new ideas is how science works. Not being critical of new ideas is the master key for the grift.

    I was at a book sale on the weekend. Cool place to meet some interesting people while waiting in line.
    There was a guy in he line beside me who like some other people I know was making a claim about quantum physics.
    I entertained his explanations and gave them some thought. They seemed reasonable BUT I am not just going to accept them at face value.
    I'm going to go away and think about them.

    These kinds of cranks are usually smart people and they are often very good at what they do know.
    But the Dunning-Kruger effect gets them and they escape the shackles of reality and are free to run wild with their own imagination.
    When the agents of reality catch up to them, conspiracy thinking starts to creep in like a cold draft under the back door to their mind.
    This, is a BIG warning sign. Anybody who suggests that there is some individual, group, organisation or society that is against them or doesn't listen or doesn't understand or is ignorant etc. (see Tytower's posts) you should take a step back and a deep breath. This form of conspiracy thinking is very subtle.
    They will usually not point the finger of blame at any one person, but rather describe it as a kind of trend.

    Unfortunately for the guy at the booksale, he made the mistake of implying a conspiracy so I knew from that point on that he was a crank.
    It didn't stop me taking away what he said and investigating it. He was incorrect and his claim to proof should be demonstrated by him and checked by others.

    I suspect at this point he will sell the grift to anybody who will buy it and double down and sweep any evidence of failure under the carpet.
    This kind of crank doesn't do experiments himself. They all fail and they know they will fail.What they hope is that somebody will find the failure, rethink the error, fix it doing all the hard work and then they ride the coat tails claiming "I was the one who suggested relativity to Einstein and he developed it".


    Spotting cranks and scammers is hard. And outting them, the scammer will use any number of tactics to make you look like the bad guy and not them.
    Yes I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.

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    Ha, you're quite funny really, and typical of the older (I presume) generation.
    Here's a link to an actual Internet event that took place in 2001.


    This event, at the time, was the most watched internet event of all time, and even that didn't force governments to pursue the matter further. Mind you, the "Disclosure" movement is still ongoing and things WILL start to emerge to the public soon. I'm sure you'll find things wrong with it but for those who think that anything trash says (aptly named) is gospel, should at least open their eyes to whats around them, and has been at least since the 1950's. I'm sure some of you will throw around the "conspiracy theory" card but we (as in, the human race) have been misled and still are being so. The reason I used the "Zero Point" and "Tesla" reference earlier was to see if the average person had heard anything. Would it surprise you to know that we have harnessed Zero Point Energy and have been using it since the 60's. Did you know that we have mastered anti gravity and are using it in Military classified projects. Did you know that we have the ability to completely get rid of fossil fuel as an energy source, and have had this ability since the 60's.
    Now, this has other implications. If this energy was released to the public back then when it was discovered, then we would not be facing the global warming tragedy which has the ability to ruin the earth as we know it.

    Dr Steven Greer has plenty more videos on YOUTUBE as well, and there are plenty more people coming out of the woodwork. I challenge you to "not just going to accept them at face value.
    I'm going to go away and think about them" Please do. And if you think that it's an utter crock of shit then I'm sure you'll let me know and your band of Userful post followers should also have a look too

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    Hey trash, is this the new improved version of tytower from the black hole threat?
    __________________________________________________ __
    Statistically, if you wait long enough, everything will happen!

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    Sometimes I wonder if many of the quantum physic theories are conspiracies or not, even if they mathematically exist and ZPE is one of them.

    Einstein wasn't fond of quantum mechanics either, EPR.
    Entanglement should not exist in a Newton/Einstein world but it is widely accepted, soon to be utilised in computers.

    I don't buy those Youtube nutters and their free' energy rubbish but our local realism is not complete either.
    This era of thoughtless consumption must end so we can encourage a world of creative geniuses rather than consumer idiots.


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    Quote Originally Posted by porkop View Post
    Hey trash, is this the new improved version of tytower from the black hole threat?
    No I think not. SAG64 (I like that abbreviation it he doesn't mind) isn't like Tytower.
    No for the record, Tytower tries. As I have said, I do not hold his incorrect statements against him. Each time he says something new, I listen, think about it and if required, debunk it. The problem is that Tytower has small problem with criticism.
    He also has a problem with "the establishment". (more on this later)

    SAG64 appears to have all his synapses connected into the right parts of the brain, and he's capable rational argument.

    As George pointed out, Tesla is a magnet for cranks. (I like that pun).

    And you're not out of line thinking that Quantum Physics might be some kind of scam or delusion Nomeat.
    I have some friends who are very smart people who have a very hard time believing or understanding quantum physics. (they call themselves flat earthers)
    They don't actually believe the Earth is flat, rather they just don't accept everything science says is true. I will also point out, these people also have a problem with "the establishment".
    To be fair it is hard for the average person to understand and Quantum Physics hard for a lot of scientists to understand.

    My friends who are flat earthers pose a problem, because they are smart people. Others who listen to them assume they know what they are talking about.
    And to some degree they do. BUT they ignore a lot of the science. They pick what they want, ignore, deny or lie about what they do not.
    For those who do not know better, they cannot tell the difference. Christians use this "appeal to ignorance". Something is true because it has not or cannot be proven false. This is what makes them dangerous. They pollute science with mis-information.

    The warning sign is that anybody who is smarter than them and knows the material well enough to defend the position of science is part of "the establishment".
    You can see the conspiracy thinking creeping in here.
    It's usually University staff that are the focus of their gripe. They're trying to tell everybody their theory is correct and when it is debunked by those most qualified to do so, they claim an ad-hominem attack. They claim to be right because the establishment won't listen to them. Not that they are wrong and that they are a crank and the establishment ignores cranks because there are, oh so many more from where you came from!


    And so we come to the subject of UFO's. <insert my subtle evil laugh here>.
    I have been responsible for some UFO sightings, so I can declare my conflicts of interest up front.
    I've also been accused of being 'not from this planet'. It's more likely aliens took my real parents and put those people in their place.

    So lets start with the bottom line.

    UFO's are an example of terrestrial stupidity, not extra-terrestrial intelligence.

    Where do we start?
    People's accounts of what they see is terrible. And the claim "I know what I saw!". No you don't.
    Remember when you first saw a selective illusion test. When asked about what you saw, the most obvious thing is what you did not see.
    And the Dunning-Kruger effect really comes into play here. People think they are qualified to identify a UFO like pilots, when they have no more special abilities to understand what they are seeing than anybody else. The self delusion that they do only serves to make them more sure of themselves.
    And those listening to the claims are more likely to believe 'a pilot' than the local paper boy. If both saw the same object and the pilot says "aliens" and the paper boy says "weather balloon" .... you know who gets ignored.

    Now I can put forward a lot of reasons why aliens are extremely unlikely.
    And lets not mix science with science fiction. UFO's are not aliens, this does not mean that aliens do not exist. They're just not visiting Earth and never have.
    SETI is science. Spock is Science Fiction.

    One of my favourites is that Aliens are really bad at not being spotted, but really good at not being photographed.

    The rise in dash cams and security cameras and all sky surveys have improved over the last 60 years and the number of UFO's caught on videos remains the same. And the type of events are one off cameras, blury and vague.

    Chelyabinsk is a good example of what would happen if a UFO passed through an area. Not everybody would spot it, but when other cameras are checked, they will correlate and support each other.

    In the case of the video, (I didn't watch all of it, I skipped through it). It's a simple example of everybody seeing what they want to see and then using other anecdotes as evidence to support their own weak claims. The movement gains it's own popularity and it's own momentum. It becomes a religion.
    The popularity of the belief makes it appear to have substance.
    Look at Christianity, how many people believe in an imaginary sky fairy let alone that Zombie Jesus was everything claimed.
    3 billion people share the same imaginary friend, how could they be wrong?

    And the belief in UFO's is only a short stroll from conspiracy thinking. It starts with imaginary friends in the sky and next thing you know, the establishment is covering it up and is the reason nobody knows...... and down the rabbit hole we go.

    I gave somebody important a lesson in Encrypted Signals many years ago. (that sounds like a conspiracy itself).
    I was asked what I thought about the security of a 3DES encrypted satellite datastream.

    I pointed out that the encryption was not in question. They were looking at the strongest link thinking it nothing else could be broken.
    My assessment was based on the information being transmitted.
    Information has two properties. It has value and it has a life.

    Lets say I'm the government and I encrypt all traffic between departments.
    An example of low value traffic, employees sharing porn amoungst each other. If I break your encryption, this material is worthless information.

    From this point on we will consider that all other information I send is valuable, so we look at it's other property, how long it lives before it becomes worthless information.

    Now you might have some government policies which I can use as insider trading. If I break the encryption, this material is of immediate value but if I obtain the same information tomorrow, it is worthless.
    Most information has a limited life and it's value declines to zero with time.

    This leads us to a very special type of information. Immortal information. It's value never decreases and it therefore never dies.

    If Bob Hawke sent Ronald Regan a secure message saying "The aliens landed in my back yard and asked me to pass on a message."
    That information is immortal. It is still worth as much today as it was in the 80's.

    Now lets look back at the encryption. You might think 3DES is impossible. No.... it just buys time. Lots of time.
    Hopefully longer than the life of the information it protects. If a new type of computer comes out next year which can perform a brute force attack of 1 billion key attempts per second, pretty much all information now dies in the time it takes to run all keys.

    Every German enigma coded message sent before 1945 can now be broken by a 13 year old kid with a phone in his pocket.

    Governments are not very good at keeping secrets. They can keep them for a reasonable amount of time, but if somebody wants to know, then it's really just a matter of time. And of course, governments will expose each other's secrets if there is any sort of political gain.

    So what we expect to see is some good solid evidence. Unfortunately there is none.
    Everybody wants UFO's to be real (aliens).
    "I want to believe" is the motto we hear.

    I would prefer to know. Critical thinking is how you isolate bullshit from truth.
    If it's all bullshit, then finding nothing is the truth.


    -----

    UFO's and similar things are relatively easy to debunk.

    If you guys want a hard one, then I've got an example of where most of the people on this forum will fall victim to their own belief and double down on fallacy.
    You'll all behave like UFO conspiracy nutters and it will be really hard to break free of your own faulty logic.

    I use this as a self check mechanism. And I'm no different from you guys. I find it really hard to not to drink the flavouraid.
    Last edited by trash; 17-05-19 at 09:58 PM.
    Yes I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.

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    AWWWW gee trash you just destroyed my youth , I use to watch My favorite martion when I was a kid now the memory has died !!!!!!!! boo hoo
    . Please treat people as you would like to be treated yourself.

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