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Thread: Free Speech At Work (not)

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    On review I may have quoted the wrong scripture try this one

    Romans 1

    24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.

    25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
    26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.
    27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

    28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.
    29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,

    30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents;
    31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy.
    32Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
    I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...



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    Quote Originally Posted by lsemmens View Post
    On review I may have quoted the wrong scripture try this one

    Romans 1
    Folau did not quote Romans. He quoted Galatians, as you first posted.

    Seems it stands then, on that basis, that Folau has no basis for claiming ‘religious belief’.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peteramjet View Post
    Seems it stands then, on that basis, that Folau has no basis for claiming ‘religious belief’.
    Do you happen to be Gay at all PeterRamjet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by george65 View Post
    Do you happen to be Gay at all PeterRamjet?
    not that there's anything wrong with that

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    Quote Originally Posted by george65 View Post
    Do you happen to be Gay at all PeterRamjet?
    No idea why you would think that. I’m not gay, and I’m guessing no one in this discussion is - except possibly hinekadon, who feels a need to remind us all of his fondness of the term ‘poo pushers’ in almost very post

    Not religion either, would likely catch on fire if I ever had a need to walk into any place of religion.

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    I just watched the Folau Interview with Alan Jones.
    A very valid point was raised that other players have behaved badly, and criminally in a never ending range of ways yet they have not been sacked. Folau quotes from the Bible and he's terminated and has the weight of the PC whiners all over him grandstanding on their Bullshit morality.

    If nothing else, I support Folau because he has balls and stands up for the courage of his convictions. I think religion is Bullshit but he does not and he will put his back to the wall rather than run from all the people against that. He could have taken down the post and rolled over like an obedient lap dog but he didn't. He would have to be aware of the consequences but he stood for what he believed in. That to me makes him a very admirable man and someone that deserves all the support he gets.
    Hearing him speak and having known a few very faithful people, he strikes me as an inheriently and unfailingly honest man. If he says they offered him mioney to take the post down, I believe him. If RA says they didn't, I'll take the word of a faithful man rather than that of Corporate greedmongers in damage control trying to save their own arse from a public butt thumping.

    Hearing about statements the Bride of Frankenstein, AKA Ra's CEO made to the head Poo Jammer of Quantarse is an insight as to what this is all about. Big brother getting it's way through controlling the purse strings. Folau has not buckled to that pressure, he's risked everything including his reputation and financial well being of his family and stuck to his Guns. That says a LOT to me.

    And lets face it, only a PC lefty organisation would appoint someone that looks like RA's Female CEO to a position in the public eye like that when their appearance is so inappropriate and their qualification is nothing outstanding nor really makes them anything more than an also ran for the job. She is there to be a showpiece to appease the lefty PC brigade and nothing else. At very least RA could get her a personal grooming consultant and teach her how to put on makeup in a decent fashion. Sending her to a decent hairdresser for a makeover wouldn't exactly be a waste of money either.
    Pretty laughable for an organisation to moan about protecting it's brand and then put a mouthpiece like Raleen out there as the head spokes person!

    I don't care much for religion, I don't care much for all the gay rights and causes, i could care less about football of any kind but I do care about people being able to say what they think especially about principals that are a foundation of this country. I also depose the Leftist mentality and the underhanded tactic they commonly use in order to deceive people that everyone thinks like them and if anyone does not, they are bastards and should be ridiculed for having a different thought process and mind of their own.

    I am sick to the back teeth of all the gays and other weirdos claiming they want to be treated like everyone else but then doing everything they can to to make themselves stand out and segregate themselves from the rest of society. They make a song and dance about " Rights" ordinary people don't have and then have the hypocrisy to claim they want to be treated and accepted as no different.
    I have known gay blokes for long times that I never had a clue were gay because they never made issue of it. Then there are the ones like my nephew that want to ram it down your throat endlessly by the way they dress, the way they make themselves look, they way they act and the way they talk. My nephew is one of many I have come across that think being gay gives them a right to act like snot nosed prats and be rude and offensive. My nephew has seen how far that does not get him with me in no uncertain terms.
    You want to sleep with blokes, fine, but if you think that gives you the right to be a suck up rude little bitch, then guess again princess. For a lot of these people being gay or what ever is just an excuse to behave in ways that would be unacceptable if they did not make a spectacle of themselves.
    If they wanted to be just like everyone else and accepted, they would have said nothing about Folaus post, just like no drunks, adulterers or anyone else mentioned has. We know what we are, no use getting pissy about it pretending we don't.

    I normally don't pay much attention to the media because of exactly what we have seen here. All the pC leftie mouthpieces claiming to speak for everyone when the fact of the matter is they only speak for a small but loudly whining minority.

    Folau has the support of a lot of people who disagree with him on different things but are behind him 100% because they are sick to death of having the shit put on them in the same way he has if not with the same consequences.

    The mediation today fell over and the headlines say they are headed for court but I still doubt it. The longer this drags on the more RA are going to loose financially and in the support of the public. The irony is they go too far and they will loose the support of the sponsor they were so desperate to keep on side because there simply won't be the Bums on seats and the interest in their business ( which is what all high level sport is) to get the exposure their sponsors are paying for in the first place.

    I'd like to see the in house stats for attendances at games, public opinion and overall business performance indicators.
    I don't doubt for a minute they are well down and RA is desperately trying to figure how to get out of the mess they have put themselves in as quickly and cheaply as possible.

    They sure as hell didn't see this biting them on the arse anywhere near as hard as it has and will continue to as long as it remains unsettled.

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    he signed the contract no one forced him to,if he objected to the clause it was his choice to say he would not sign unless it was removed ,i have been in a similar position with an employer a couple of times the first finally accepted i would not sign the second however did not and just sacked me bringing religion into it is a devious way of avoiding the fact he did not want to lose the millions on offer in the contract, then to ask for public donations is disgusting let him use his own money he has enough of it.if he gets another contract offer with something i it he objects let us hope he has the gumption to reject it

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    Quote Originally Posted by dai View Post
    he signed the contract no one forced him to,if he objected to the clause it was his choice to say he would not sign unless it was removed ,
    There is no specific clause that says he can't post on SM or he can't practice his religion. It is the interpretation and the application of the non specific clauses that are there that are at issue. No one could forsee see how these clauses may have been applied when signing to object to something that was not at issue at the time.

    It is how these clauses have been applied, quite possibly illegaly, that at are at issue. If it is found they are illegal, then they are null and void. that makes the Non agreement argument equally as null and void and should not have been applied at all. If RA are going to say he brought them into disrepute or damaged the brand, they are going to have a tough time defending themselves as to their actions with other players that have comitted crimes and still not been sacked.

    bringing religion into it is a devious way of avoiding the fact he did not want to lose the millions on offer in the contract,
    Huh? That is such a flawed statement it's hard to know what you are saying.
    I found one of his SM accounts. the guy has been posting Bible quotes and religious teachings going back years. the post RA ( Or the head poof of Quantarse) took exception to was nothing more than another of his bible/ religious quotes. The fact the cupcakes took exception to changes nothing.
    There was nothing Devious about what he did and had he been so concerned about his contract he could have simply taken the post down when asked. Because he has a pair and the courage of his convictions he refused knowing the potential consequences. If it is proved RA overstepped their Boundaries or if they even roll over as I believe they will and settle, then the fault is indisputably theirs not his. Actually I and a lot of others would like to see it go to court so there is a legal precedent set which would put an end to a lot of this lefty ShipFkery and sort out all this " Rights" BS.


    then to ask for public donations is disgusting let him use his own money he has enough of it.
    Why is it disgusting? How do you know how much money he has? If you don't support it, then don't give him any money.
    I'll bet my arse a lot of people who complain and say it should be used to help the needy etc Have never donated a thing to any charitable cause of any consequence in their lives anyway. I initially wouldn't give him anything either but having followed this and looked into it, I realise it's the cause not the man that is being funded here. If the case goes to court and the fund is re opened, I WOULD chip in a hundred now. It would be a very cheap price to ease my daily frustration with all this endless and growing PC bullshit and have it put in it's place which is what this is all about.

    A lot of people didn't think it was disgusting at all and from what I read, $2.1 Million in donations given of peoples free will proves that it was far from disgusting to a good many. They were not giving to Folau per say, they were giving to the cause he is fighting and the injustice he suffered. The idiots that were whining about his dont fund me and had that closed down certainly got their arses Kicked when he raised a Million after that in 12 hours. People saw the PC bullies at work, again, and supported the man taking it on.
    As a person that says they have been sacked for not signing contracts, one would think you would be smart enough to also see the opportunity to fight the injustice rather than take the attitude " It happened to me so he should have to put up with it as well."

    if he gets another contract offer with something i it he objects let us hope he has the gumption to reject it
    Rather than be a pussy and let himself be fked over, I hope he has the balls, unlike you did, to fight it. And I have not one single doubt in my mind he would and after this, I also have not one doubt whoever was writing said contract would change it their end rather than risk the same fight Folau is bringing to RA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dai View Post
    he signed the contract no one forced him to,if he objected to the clause it was his choice to say he would not sign unless it was removed ,i have been in a similar position with an employer a couple of times the first finally accepted i would not sign the second however did not and just sacked me bringing religion into it is a devious way of avoiding the fact he did not want to lose the millions on offer in the contract, then to ask for public donations is disgusting let him use his own money he has enough of it.if he gets another contract offer with something i it he objects let us hope he has the gumption to reject it
    Whats disgusting about people offering their support to a person on a completely voluntary basis? If some player was sacked BECAUSE they were, say, quoting Islamic scripture on homosexual people, would you be so dismissive of a plea for funds to fight such a case?

    I think you're badly misreading what's going on. The ultimate outcome in a court is irrelevant to many people really, as it may only prove that either side has the best hired fact manipulator/misrepresenter.
    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

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    In a lighter vein...from the Australian.

    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by george65 View Post
    I just watched the Folau Interview with Alan Jones.
    Alan Jones has had a gripe with RA since he was dumped as coach of the Wallabies back in the 80's. He takes every opportunity he can on his radio show to denounce them, from the various CEO's over the years to their choice of coaching staff. It's hardly surprising he is on Folau's side.

    Quote Originally Posted by george65 View Post
    A very valid point was raised that other players have behaved badly, and criminally in a never ending range of ways yet they have not been sacked.
    It's only valid if true. Can you name for us one RA player who has behaviour badly, refused to publicly apologise, and been allowed to play for the Wallabies again? Just one player will do.

    I can think of both Cooper and Hunt who had charges brought against them - which weren't all proved either, from memory. They were both stood down, eventually apologised, and were allowed to play again. I can think of no player who hasn't shown 'repentance' (Folau would well know the meaning of that word) and been allowed to play again. Yet that is what Folau expects.

    Quote Originally Posted by george65 View Post
    Folau quotes from the Bible and he's terminated and has the weight of the PC whiners all over him grandstanding on their Bullshit morality.
    Why do you keep inferring Folau quoted from the Bible when he did not? He posted an image that made certain claims, and referenced that imaged with certain Bible sections that have been shown to not make the claims that he had in his image.

    Regardless, he was not terminated for 'quoting' from the Bible. If you had bothered to look at his public social media accounts, opposed to just jumping on your high horse making claims that aren't substantiated, you would be well aware that Folau posts frequently about his religion. It's never been an issue in the past - apart from the previous times he was warned for posting similar messages.

    There is no crisis of free speech. Freedom of religion has not been suppressed. Folau was terminated for breaching his contract. Folau is a hypocrite, claiming a 'victimhood', a stance that he has done no wrong, a claimed moral high ground due to religion - yet in the same breath claims he doesn't have to abide by his employment contract.

    Quote Originally Posted by george65 View Post
    I think religion is Bullshit but he does not and he will put his back to the wall rather than run from all the people against that. He could have taken down the post and rolled over like an obedient lap dog but he didn't. He would have to be aware of the consequences but he stood for what he believed in.
    We are in agreeance with something - religion is BS.

    Folau has rolled and become an obedient lap dog - to a God and a religion that we both agree is BS. He chose that route instead of agreeing to abide by his employment contract - a signed, legal document that has bearing on his ability to make money and support himself

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    Quote Originally Posted by peteramjet View Post
    He chose that route instead of agreeing to abide by his employment contract - a signed, legal document that has bearing on his ability to make money and support himself
    The legality of the contract is a key point in question.
    If it is proven not to be legal or if RA roll over on it which will be the same thing, then Falou is 100% correct and RA are going to have to pay up big time for acting Illegally.

    So far RA have only their own kangaroo court ruling he has done anything wrong. Lets see how it goes in the real court, if it ever gets near that.
    i'm tipping it won't and RA will settle privately and hush up the details and still claim they were in the right.

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    Why do you keep inferring Folau quoted from the Bible when he did not? He posted an image that made certain claims, and referenced that imaged with certain Bible sections that have been shown to not make the claims that he had in his image.
    I quoted a section of the Bible which does say exactly that!
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    Quote Originally Posted by lsemmens View Post
    I quoted a section of the Bible which does say exactly that!
    Folau’s post quotes form Galatians, and that section does not say that.

    The additional part from Roman’s that you quoted, although not related to Folaus’s post, also does not make mention of homosexuals going to hell.

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    men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another
    to what do you think that this refers? The Galatians post is not as explicit, but still says essentially the same thing. Take any verse in the Bible out of context, and you can make it say anything. (This not only holds true for the Bible - just watch any court case)
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    Quote Originally Posted by lsemmens View Post
    [/B]to what do you think that this refers?
    It makes no mention of them going to hell though, which is what Folau claimed.

    You can’t just pick random parts of the Bible and claim, ‘hey, I found something that mentions gays’ when it doesn’t reflect Folau’s post (which is the entire discussion here) and wasn’t quoted by him when he made his inferences.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peteramjet View Post
    It makes no mention of them going to hell though, which is what Folau claimed.
    Did you find his post personally offensive Peteramjet?
    You do seem to be taking an inordinate amount of exception to it. I can understand a gay person getting their nose out of joint as the head of Quantarse did but I don' get what a straight person would be so aggrieved.

    It's pretty basic isn't it, sort of thing I and those of my generation were taught at school in principal in some direct examples. You lie, cheat, steal and other things ( like being a drunk and a fornicator, also mentioned but no one has got all pissy over) and these are sins and you go to hell. A person of normal intelligence and comprehension even if not religious has a fair idea of the rights and wrongs of Christianity without having a specific and all encompassing list to refer to for every possible example.
    Homosexuality is as my shallow understanding of Christianity goes, a sin so it would follow that even without specifics, Poo jabbing will put you in hell. As will fornicating with a goat or a dog or a stray wilderbeast. Given Christianity and other religions as far as I'm aware all take a dim view of sleeping with the same sex, there is probably not a lot of religious gays out there because of the quandary it would put them in. Those that are would be well aware of the conflict some may have with their choices and the ones that are not faithful wouldn't give a dam about something they probably think is a crock in teh first place.

    That logically leaves all the bitching just another cause for the PC leftists to attract attention to themselves over and push their bullshit agendas over.

    Unless the Bible does not denounce Homosexuality, the that is indeed the way it is so the princesses should just suck it up and live with it instead of getting their lacy panties in a twist and looking for something as always to bitch about, get their own way and have a poor me sookfest about it if they don't.

    I saw a legal comment on the case the other day which seemed very poignant .
    There apparently has been admission and confirmation that RA Told Alan Poojammer of Quantarse that they intended to get rid of Falou before they held their Biased kangaroo court. If that is proven/ admitted in court, RA are gone for all money no matter what Falou did.
    That alone would constitute a Huge breach of workplace and other laws and they would be shoving the proverbial up hill trying to get out of that one.

    The old " You will be given a fair trial then shot" approach does not cut it any more funny enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by george65 View Post
    Did you find his post personally offensive Peteramjet?
    You do seem to be taking an inordinate amount of exception to it.
    I don’t find his post offensive, personally or otherwise. I hold the view that RA had the right to fire him, and so far that is a view that has been upheld by the governing body of the sport.

    What I do seem to take exception to is how so many want to rally behind Folau without legitimate reason. There is sufficient evidence in the public arena to show his claims of being ‘victimised’ and fired because of his religious beliefs are crap - yet so many seem to continue to champion for his cause based on that fact.

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    I dont like homosexuals , I dont like fornicaters , i dont like drunks. I dont like sheep ####ers ,I dont like lesbians , I dont like thieves, I dont like liars ,I dont like gays , I dont drink, I dont like dishonest cops ,I dont like crooked lawyers , so my dearest peter wanna kiss ????? thats about as offensive as I can be to you . who are you going to report me to THE BLOODY GAY RIGHTS COUNCIL HAHAHA . And Im a atheist as well ???

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    Default Free Speech At Work (not)

    Quote Originally Posted by hinekadon View Post
    thats about as offensive as I can be to you .
    Why is any of that stuff offensive to me? As I posted above, I don’t find any of what Folau said offensive, and neither any of what you posted.

    What you’ve done is show how many supporters of Folau, such as yourself, don’t know and can’t articulate why they support him, so instead of reasoned discussions they just throw insults.

    You may very well hold the same views as Folau, and so be it, but I guarantee you wouldn’t make the same comments as you did above as a representative of your employer - at least not if you wanted to keep your job. And that is the crux of this entire matter.

    It’s a matter of Folau’s comments being inappropriate as an employee who is representing his workplace.
    Last edited by peteramjet; 02-07-19 at 07:06 AM.

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