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Thread: Blackouts ARE Coming.

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    More about you really...
    If u want to go on an expedition get a Land Rover, if u want to come home from an expedition get a Landcruiser!



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    Quote Originally Posted by efab View Post
    Yep WA - "wait awhile" and not connected to the national grid.
    I can't seem to find much on power supply/ problems for WA or NT so I can only surmise they aren't having the problems those connected to the national ( ?) grid are.

    But it is a Govt owned utility so that in my opinion is even better than the east coast as revenue goes back into the coffers and not to some greedy private clown that thinks only of profit.
    We tend to think things aren't great when they are Gubbermint owned but then they are given to private enterprise and we realise just how good we had it after all.
    There are many predicting the independent operators will rape the grid for all it's worth and put 2/5th of fk all back into it and then when it's a smoking heap will either walk away or demand more handouts from the gubbermint to invest back into their Businesses they pulled billions in profits out of.
    Everything I see seems to support that prediction.


    As for getting approval for bigger connections, who cares. Get a system and add to it yourself, no need to tell them anything about the addition.
    You are talking to a guy that has done his whole system without approval, trust me, I don't care But... There is a point where you have to play the game to get to where you want.

    Telling them about the addition is not the problem. It's when they see with their smartarse meters that you are pumping 100 Kwh back into the grid and you only have 6.6 Kwh worth of panels on your roof... supposedly. By getting approval for a bigger system you can add on to it and because they -think- you have say 10 or 20 Kw installed, they won't be questioning why you are pumping 5X more back in than every other house around the area with the same size ( 6.6 whatever) system.

    I have spoken to 2 installers and they have said that getting approvals for bigger systems is Common although not strictly by the regs. You are supposed to get approvals for every install at the time of Install so it's subject to the current and ever changing regs... largely designed to keep the industry going by replacing perfectly good systems but that's been to my benefit in effect. Wouldn't have been able to get all the cheap used panels I had if it were not for this stupidity.

    Knowing my luck, I'll probably get knocked back for some stupid reason or another of having any size system as there is plenty of solar round here. I may have the option of a zero export system but if that happens, I'll have to look at batteries and crunch the numbers as to what works out the most economical and /or reliable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ol' boy View Post
    More about you really...
    Says the guy that isn't prepared to back up his position either.

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    Default Blackouts ARE Coming.

    Quote Originally Posted by george65 View Post
    Says the guy that isn't prepared to back up his position either.
    Says the guy claiming to ‘back a position with cold hard cash’ on a claim made on an Internet forum, anonymously, using a pseudonym...

    Also said by the guy claiming renewables are a farce, yet who powers his own house almost exclusively from solar power...
    Last edited by peteramjet; 24-08-19 at 01:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by george65 View Post
    Says the guy that isn't prepared to back up his position either.
    I think i made my position perfectly clear
    Do you have a problem with comprehension or did you just not read it?

    Its ok george, this thread will be here come summer, you will be free to gloat and brag if the power goes out from under generation
    BUT, do not claim a power outage due to Current Limiting devices in the network !!!

    And as you've claimed so proudly, you put your money where your mouth is, perhaps you can buy a Premium Membership or make a donation if it doesn't fail due to under generation

    The rest of us didn't realise this was a pissing competition.
    Last edited by ol' boy; 24-08-19 at 01:24 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by peteramjet View Post
    Says the guy claiming to ‘back a position with cold hard cash’ on a claim made on an Internet forum, anonymously, using a pseudonym...
    I also said I was prepared to put the money in an escrow account so it is all legit and for the terms to be defined beforehand.
    If you think I'm talking out my arse, Pony up your money and put me to the test and then we'll see how Fairdinkum I am or not.

    Also said by the guy claiming renewables are a farce, yet who powers his own house almost exclusively from solar power...
    That comment alone shows how ignorant you are to the problems of basing a whole Grid on RE and is typical of the leftist Green mentality.
    I don't come near powering my home "almost exclusively" from solar power at all. I have said I can't come near it in winter and I have made it very clear I back feed to the grid during the day and pull from it at night. I make more power from solar than I use most of the year but that's a totally diifernt thing from powering it almost exclusively. The grid powers my home much more than 50% of the time.

    I have also said MANY times that it's one thing to power your home with solar panels and/ or batteries but an entirely different thing to run a whole grid from RE.
    I'm making enough power for my home. I'm not making enough for my home, the one next door that doesen't have panels, the people in the blocks of units, any local Business, the sewage plant down the road and industry all of which the grid has to support. That is the entire problem the grid faces and of course there has to be enough power at night as well.

    You really ought to be more accurate with your accusations so as they don't come back and discredit you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by george65 View Post
    Too much wind and solar and the grid can loose frequency and get out of sync which would be Catastrophic.
    Occasionally I'll hear my inverter (JSI-3000TL) trip out at an odd time, scrolling through the screens I sometimes find the grid hZ frequency will be outside the limits of the inverter.
    2 large solar farms on the edge of town.
    It also trips out once a day regular & has done since new, no idea why, usually around 2:30 pm-ish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ol' boy View Post
    BUT, do not claim a power outage due to Current Limiting devices in the network !!!
    Sure, as Long as you don't try to claim that 10K+ homes taken out was because of a current limiting scenario when the reserve is below allocation, inter connectors are maxed out and they are asking people to switch off their AC because of the strain on the grid..... Like they have the last 2 summers.

    Also as long as you don't claim it was some other fault when it was caused by turdbines either under of over generating and causing problems as they have numerous times before. Storms don't count as Coal stations don't give a crap about High wind or rain. If turdbines Blow over or have to be shut down so as not to overspeed, that's inadequacy of their design and symptoms of unreliability.

    That's why I said lets set the parameters of what qualifies and what doesn't. I know damn well people will come up with any excuse to justify their cult beliefs so the rules of the game need to be clearly defined in advance so everyone is held equally to them.

    We have one parameter defined now at least.

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    Just looking at the AEMO site for current demand.

    Comparison of demand in MW at 11;30 PM and now, 1:45PM

    NSW 8769 6874
    Vic 5348 3537
    SA 1477 1152
    qld 5762 4712

    Every state is using more power at night than they are during the day. Just goes to show the Idea of "Off peak" power does not really pan out these days and also makes one wonder where all the power at night is going to come from when there is no solar to fall back on. No doubt though in times of bad weather the scenario will reverse and the day time will revert to being the big draw.

    It does go to show though that significant reductions in FF generation could be made through the day and have them to maintain reliable power in the night and when the weather is poor. A blended approach of RE and FF would give all the benefits and none of the drawbacks of the impractical and nationally damaging idea of a 100% RE grid.

    The logical approach would be to phase in more RE rather than phase out FF generation. I guess we are going to have to prove what is well known that we will need FF power for a long time to come yet by causing a lot of problems and setting the country back a few decades before it will be accepted .

    Unfortunately good management is not a priority of the greenwashed nor that of Big Biz whom are reaping fortunes from all this green washing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by george65 View Post
    If you think I'm talking out my arse, Pony up your money and put me to the test and then we'll see how Fairdinkum I am or not.
    You're still just some anonymous bloke on the 'net making unfounded claims. Why would anyone bother?

    Quote Originally Posted by george65 View Post
    That comment alone shows how ignorant you are to the problems of basing a whole Grid on RE and is typical of the leftist Green mentality.
    If you cared to read any of my previous responses before writing your usual essay you'd see my views are not dissimilar to yours. If I'm ignorant, then does that mean you are too?

    Quote Originally Posted by george65 View Post
    You really ought to be more accurate with your accusations so as they don't come back and discredit you.
    Nice try, but I'm not the one making claims that are contrary to my actions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jma View Post
    Occasionally I'll hear my inverter (JSI-3000TL) trip out at an odd time, scrolling through the screens I sometimes find the grid hZ frequency will be outside the limits of the inverter.
    2 large solar farms on the edge of town.
    That's not one I have seen myself. The frequency here is generally very tight. One of my inverters tracks mins and max's of the day including frequency and it's usually good but I don't have a solar farm down the road... Just a small one on my roof! :0)

    I wonder if these synchronisers are going to become something extra the Grid will need to support Unreliables? When they worked out how in fact limited the Big Battery in SA was for providing power on a grid scale, they spin doctored that and said it was for frequency and voltage stabilisation.


    It also trips out once a day regular & has done since new, no idea why, usually around 2:30 pm-ish.
    It would be very interesting to set up a large 3 Phase motor with a heavy flywheel and run that around the time your inverter trips out.
    If it were a frequency thing it should stabilise it. I have read of these regular dropouts before but never seen an explaination of why?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ol' boy View Post
    I think i made my position perfectly clear
    Do you have a problem with comprehension or did you just not read it?

    Its ok george, this thread will be here come summer, you will be free to gloat and brag if the power goes out from under generation
    BUT, do not claim a power outage due to Current Limiting devices in the network !!!

    And as you've claimed so proudly, you put your money where your mouth is, perhaps you can buy a Premium Membership or make a donation if it doesn't fail due to under generation

    The rest of us didn't realise this was a pissing competition.
    I didn't realise that this was a site that facilitated online betting either

    But then what do I know....I'm only a green washed leftie
    Last edited by Thala Dan; 24-08-19 at 04:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thala Dan View Post
    ...Well, at least we have a Federal Government with vision and a National Energy Plan that lays out the way forward for our future national energy needs...
    What an absolute load of garbage.

    Next you'll be talking about totalitarian government control on all business and mining activities, and state-owned this and state-owned that.

    The problem with green people is how red they are.
    True freedom is the greatest gift a man can possess, yet is the one thing most easily and innocently given away, to crafty curses and binds cleverly disguised as blessings and gifts, in the pursuit of supposed achievement, status and power.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thala Dan View Post
    I didn't realise that this was a site that facilitated online betting either
    I didn't see any money or odds given either (outside a membership or donation)


    You can actually bet on an outcome in a friendly manner without need for a wager


    Lets allow the facts to be the determining factor
    Last edited by ol' boy; 24-08-19 at 07:00 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by irritant View Post
    What an absolute load of garbage.

    Next you'll be talking about totalitarian government control on all business and mining activities, and state-owned this and state-owned that.

    The problem with green people is how red they are.
    And the problem with people from south Africa is that they haven't got a damn clue about what's happening in Australia

    'Disappointing': Business leaders slam Morrison government on energy policy

    The federal government faces a mounting business backlash over energy policy as leaders of some of nation's biggest companies and most influential lobby groups have publicly lamented the ditching of the National Energy Guarantee and blasted its proposed replacement.

    One of the country's biggest manufacturers, Bluescope, on Friday singled out the decision to scrap the National Energy Guarantee as disappointing.

    BlueScope chief executive Mark Vassella said the steelmaker, which employs thousands of people around Australia, understood energy policy was "complex and political" but the challenges in the sector needed to be addressed.




    Energy and Climate Change

    To achieve this, we need a clear and comprehensive policy framework to be put in place at a national level. Companies will only invest in new infrastructure in electricity and other key industries if they can see a stable policy framework, with minimal government intervention, that will endure whomever is in power.

    The Business Council supports the development of an integrated, national and bipartisan energy and climate change policy framework that can deliver the following four key goals:

    Secure and reliable energy supply
    Affordable energy supply
    Strong, internationally competitive economy
    Meet current and future absolute emission reduction targets.


    Last edited by Thala Dan; 24-08-19 at 07:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by irritant View Post

    The problem with green people is how red they are.
    And how much they lie, how much they exaggerate, How they misrepresent things, How they accuse others of the behaviour no one does more than themselves, How unrealistic they are, how they believe that everyone HAS to think the same way as they do and there is no other correct way to think, How they will deny failures in their beliefs no matter how inarguable they are, what hypocrites the majority of them are, how a word they say can't be trusted and how completely and Utterly obsessed they are with their Green cult.

    Apart from those couple of things and a few more, they are fine! :0)
    They are one of the 2 greatest threats to Western ways of Life and culture I see in the world today.

    2030 is going to be their " Holy" year. It's the year everyone will be driving EV's, the year everything will be renewable, everything they don't like will be banned, everything they want will be the only thing available, the year there will be no water but the same year all the polar ice caps will have completely melted, the year the average world wide temperature will be whatever sensationalist number they want to up it to today and the year the world will end because we didn't take emergency, panic , desperation action on climate change 10 years ago and it's too late now.

    Yep, 2030 is going to be a BIIG year for the green Concerned, just look at any debate or comment from the green cult and that's the year it's all going to happen.
    Of course I expect that date to change, continuously as we get closer to it and it becomes clear none of the predictions are occurring.
    Perhaps they will rebrand the term Climate change again to make it less laughable when people point out Climate is another word for weather and the notion of having weather that does not change is as moronic as all the rest of their bleatings.

    What they don't realise is they are their own worst enemies.
    No one is against having a clean, healthy unpolluted environment, what they are against and where the green obsessed shoot themselves in the foot is the way they try to ram stupid ideas and concepts down everyone's throat's that will always cost a bomb and detract from peoples living standards but never pay attention to obvious things that could be done for free or allow any improvements to be made that do not fit 100% with their ideals. Got to be all or nothing in the green cult.
    No 20 or 50% Improvement and work from there will do, Got to be 100% their way of thinking no matter how impractical, costly or far fetched their timeline may be.
    Which is 95% of the time, is 2030. :0)

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    Quote Originally Posted by george65 View Post
    That's not one I have seen myself. The frequency here is generally very tight. One of my inverters tracks mins and max's of the day including frequency and it's usually good but I don't have a solar farm down the road... Just a small one on my roof! :0)
    This afternoon it was sitting around 49.9 - 50.0 when I had a look a couple of times.
    One time it went out a few months ago the reading was around 51 or 52 I think, can't remember exactly but looking up the specs of the inverter I found it was outside it's operating frequencies & it continued to show the red grid fault light until the frequency dropped to a level the inverter would work again, took half an hour or so.
    I've seen it happen a couple of times this year.

    Quote Originally Posted by george65 View Post
    I wonder if these synchronisers are going to become something extra the Grid will need to support Unreliables? When they worked out how in fact limited the Big Battery in SA was for providing power on a grid scale, they spin doctored that and said it was for frequency and voltage stabilisation.
    If the frequencies keep messing up I guess some type of sync will be required to keep it all in check, I don't really know anything about that side of things but I do know it irritates me when my inverter doesn't work because of it.
    Gets bloody hot in summertime too that inverter, can hold a hand on it but only just.

    Quote Originally Posted by george65 View Post
    It would be very interesting to set up a large 3 Phase motor with a heavy flywheel and run that around the time your inverter trips out.
    If it were a frequency thing it should stabilise it. I have read of these regular dropouts before but never seen an explaination of why?
    The useless mob of pricks I got it from could give me no explanation either, my uneducated guess is something Ergon does daily at roughly the same time trips it but what that is I have no idea, some sort of switching or changeover maybe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jma View Post
    This afternoon it was sitting around 49.9 - 50.0 when I had a look a couple of times.
    One time it went out a few months ago the reading was around 51 or 52 I think, can't remember exactly but looking up the specs of the inverter I found it was outside it's operating frequencies & it continued to show the red grid fault light until the frequency dropped to a level the inverter would work again, took half an hour or so.
    I've seen it happen a couple of times this year.



    If the frequencies keep messing up I guess some type of sync will be required to keep it all in check, I don't really know anything about that side of things but I do know it irritates me when my inverter doesn't work because of it.
    Gets bloody hot in summertime too that inverter, can hold a hand on it but only just.



    The useless mob of pricks I got it from could give me no explanation either, my uneducated guess is something Ergon does daily at roughly the same time trips it but what that is I have no idea, some sort of switching or changeover maybe.
    Switching Capacitor banks in and out would be my guess
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jma View Post

    If the frequencies keep messing up I guess some type of sync will be required to keep it all in check, I don't really know anything about that side of things but I do know it irritates me when my inverter doesn't work because of it.
    There is a method of getting 3 Phase from single phase and that is the use of a Rotary Converter. It's basicly a 3 Phase motor you start running and tap off the 3rd leg to the 3 phase motor you want to drive. because the other 2 phases are driving the 3rd phase, it generates and you can yuse that to provide the 3rd missing leg to the 3 phase load you want to drive.

    I think running a largish motor would work the same way. When the frequency Stumbles, the motor would provide reactive power, especially if it had some extra Flywheel mass and keep the frequency Stable for what I take is a very short time when it blips.

    Gets bloody hot in summertime too that inverter, can hold a hand on it but only just.
    Hot electronics are NOT a good thing. I have an old inverter that is fan cooled. the newer ones seem to have done away with that relying on massive heat sinks for passive cooling. One of my 5KW inverters relies on that and even though it is in the shed and completely in the shade on an insulated south wall, , the thing gets way too hot for my comfort.
    I got a thermal switch rated to 40oC ( any lower and the weather alone could trip it here) and coupled that to a relay that drives 3 100mm server fans. I mounted the switch where the mosfets seem to be located and heats up first with some thermal grease and aluminium tape for a good thermal bond. There is also a PWM controller in the relay box so I can control the fan speed as well.
    The fans whip up a strong but not too fast gas flow and force air down the cooling fins. I was using a large tube fan last summer but it's a pricey unit and I have better jobs for it.

    Forced/ blown air makes a HUGE difference over passive cooling and pulls a LOT of heat out of that inverter and brings it down to just above ambient. Reversing the airflow against natural convection helps pick up a bit more heat but mainly it's just more convenient to sit the fans on top of the heatsink. Even a small airflow helps as anything above natural convection will carry the heat away faster. The few watts of Power the fans use I think will be more than paid back in longer inverter life.
    Heat Dries out capacitors which these things are full of and keeps IC's, mosfets and transistors which are also major components a lot happier too.

    One thing that does Puzzle me is the amount of heat the thing produces. A 2 KW fan heater does not seem to have the heat output I get from the inverter.
    They are supposed to be above 95% efficient which to me does not add up. On a 5Kw inverter, there is no way there should be that much heat coming from what should be an under 250W Inefficiency. I have a pretty good idea and feel for thermodynamics as far as heat output and that thing I pumping out the heat from about 10 Am to 4 PM in summer. I have a couple of car Radiator fans running in the shed window powered by a couple of Solar panels on the shed roof and those things blow a gale keeping the shed at ambient temps so not like the thing is sitting in a hot box.

    I have a 4 and a 5Kw inverter I'm going to put up in the next couple of weeks so I'll have to set up some cooling for them as well. Where the other one has fine fining on the back of the unit. These things are just big chunky lumps which would not remove heat nearly as quick. I have a fair Idea why there are warning stickers for the heat all over them!


    The useless mob of pricks I got it from could give me no explanation either, my uneducated guess is something Ergon does daily at roughly the same time trips it but what that is I have no idea, some sort of switching or changeover maybe.
    My guess is they are switching in and out the controlled loads and sending the ripple down the line for the meters which may be what your inverter is picking up on.
    There are various " Off peak" tariffs available and given the time when the sun may be backing off and the demand starting to ramp up, could be they are turning off the different controlled daytime tariffs.

    That ripple should not be strong enough to be detected by anything other than a power meter and it certainly should not interrupt the frequency.They may have cranked the pulse up either by mistake or to trigger some remote devices that need a good strong blip to switch them. I'd bet with that though its something to do with the solar farms and a complication in their control systems.

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    Any controll from the supplyer will be for power factor correction this is the biggest waste of unmetered power and the only one they are interested in controlling and attached to frequency its easy to get over it by using power-factor caps on the load-side off the inverter, they dont like a lagging pf as they cant meter it and they dont like a leading pf as they dont get payed for the consumption so when the voltage and the current are in phase they are measured correctly , if the current lags the voltage the meter cant compensate so under charges result , if voltage lags it dont read as true watts so it also undercharges both cases are bad business for them , with it happening at the same time its proberly a operator habit on the controlls , there you go no insults to the pricks that controll the energy system cause they know not what they are doing just doing as instructed by the bean counters lol

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