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Thread: Blackouts ARE Coming.

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ol' boy View Post
    ???????

    Power goes out, Mobile Phone still works, Mobile Internet still works, Laptop still works
    I think its unreal now when the power goes out, if your on your laptop, you don't even know it has
    Everything works exactly the same
    In fact, i use it to check the outage and reconnection times.

    Just one advantage of Mobile Internet
    BTW the Towers have Batteries and Genset the size of a shipping container.
    At least ours does. It could run for days and after fires years ago, it is now a stipulation it does
    May be the case in rural areas, but in most metro areas sites are switching to micro cell sites, which have limited power backup capacity (if any capacity). Sites at exchanges (or larger sites) may well have generator backup.

    During the SA blackout most were without mobile coverage after 3 to 6 hours.

    So yes, for the majority of the population a blackout of any period more than a couple of hours would mean the loss of mobile phones and mobile internet.



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    Quote Originally Posted by peteramjet View Post
    So yes, for the majority of the population a blackout of any period more than a couple of hours would mean the loss of mobile phones and mobile internet.
    Oh shit ... the hardship of it all!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    Lets ask those who actually research and know a bit about this matter and maybe you should ACTUALLY READ properly about those "warnings" and how it is dealt with:




    ...oh the panic, oh the pain
    So I take it You'll be backing your sarcasm and knowledgeable insight and putting down your Grand then will you that there are going to be no substantial blackouts this summer. I mean given that you have all the inside info and whatever and read what you think others don't, You'll be only too keen to put your money on it won't you! Grands is the buy in but if you want to make it more I'm open to upping the ante. Any other takers that want to bet it's all hype?


    A few individuals for a few hours without power has never been a real problem.
    Realy?? Like when SA went dark, Twice. when 150K homes in Vic went dark last summer. Never been a real problem 'eh? Seemed to be a problem when all the iron in the smelter went cold and took them a couple of months to get it all out and repair the Furnaces. I think BHP may disagree it's never been a real problem. Or the people trapped on trains for a few hours or the ones that could get fuel to get where they were going or ....
    May not have been a problem for YOU but for others, may not share your rather Naive and dismissive position.

    A REAL problem is the lack of water lately in this country, so why not whinge and rant on about should be done about that?
    The ongoing draught is here to stay and effects almost everybody here, some way or the other.
    Because there is nothing anyone can do about drought. It's not a man managed thing. Only so many dams you can build and that won't help a lot of people in the worst areas that rely on natural rainfall. Unless you are one of those people that wants to blame everything on globull warming of course but that discussion is so old, boring and pointless the majority of people don't really give a rats arse any more despite what the greenwashed want to think.

    Unfortunately the one thing that breaks drought and always has in this country is flood so a lot of people are going to go from the pan to the fire and not a lot we can do about that either other than to be ready when the inevitable happens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guiseppe View Post
    Oh shit ... the hardship of it all!!
    Well lets just hope then it's you involved in an accident, has a heart attack somewhere there is no land line or your place is threatened by fire when all the lines are down and not some other poor bastard that isn't quite as narrow minded.

    You do realise don't you that a lot of EFPOS machines now do not use hard wired internet so lets hope some poor bugger is not trying to buy fuel to escape a fire or whatever because the servo has closed up because they can't do business.

    Internet and Mobile services are the back bones of a lot more than gaming and having the idle chats you might just use them for.

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    Don’t we all pay a network access fee combined in out electricity bills?

    Aren’t we paying the highest prices for electricity?

    Why are we not getting what we are paying for?

    Sounds like they don’t care about us?
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    Quote Originally Posted by porkop View Post

    Sounds like they don’t care about us?
    HAHA.
    They couldn't give a Flying shit about anything bar Profits. $2.7Bn last year. wonder how much better they will screw us over this year?

    Reduce power prices... Bwahahahaa!

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    Quote Originally Posted by george65 View Post
    HAHA.
    They couldn't give a Flying shit about anything bar Profits. $2.7Bn last year. wonder how much better they will screw us over this year?

    Reduce power prices... Bwahahahaa!
    And all the while running Assets into the ground with no or minimal maintenance being done so as to maximise profits.
    And don't believe for a minute that STPIS works as a way of preventing this from happening, some companies try to care and some don't give a rats R's.
    Last edited by Al Bundy; 23-08-19 at 09:54 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by porkop View Post
    ...Sounds like they don’t care about us?
    Don't pay your bill...then you'll see they do

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    Reading the Eiei o's intervention warnings for the day, I came across an interesting one which I followed up and learned something else about all these unreliables.
    They issued an order for some Synchronous ( FF) generators to stay on line when they were not committed to. The upshot of this in a non technical explanation is that the wind turdbine and Solar need frequency by the " Rotating " generators but do not produce it themselves. Too much wind and solar and the grid can loose frequency and get out of sync which would be Catastrophic.

    Looking this up some more, I found " synchronisers" are now bing installed to combat this problem. Basically its a bloody huge electric motor/ generator that uses another engine Which I think may be Diesel) to spin the thing up to synchronous speed and then runs like an unloaded motor. This great motor has a couple of rather large Flywheels attached and the whole thing weighs about 175 TONS. This will produce a frequency refrence and push or pull an amount of transmission lines and attached generators as needed to ensure there is adequate frequency strength in the grid and the unreliables don't push the grid out of phase.

    I'm sure these things are free to acquire as Unreliable power is so cheap so they couldn't add a cent to it's over all costs. Apparently there are a number of them going in Vic SA to help control their Dodgy power supply. having read up on some of the new considerations the EiEio is putting into place including the never before considered disaster of having to Cold boot the grid ( when the whole thing collapses) these Synchronisers would be a VERY important part of getting it going again. Voltage isn't a big deal, you can transform that to whatever you want but getting one generator in sync with another thousand's of KM away is a different matter. You need to sync the control's before you add in the generated power or you can take everything out. Frequency is CRITICAL.

    Just another unseen and unspoken complication of the unreliables.

    Also was reading an article by an expert in various grid related fields where he suggests the power co's may be conspiring in their business even if in no " Formal" or spoken manner, to allow generation assets to run down and not replace them. The proposal being that as things get more clearly desperate, The gubbermints will start throwing out Huge subsidies in a panic to keep the lights on and the voters happy. They will then be able to build their infrastructure at the gubbermints/ public cost instead of having to foot the bill themselves.

    Now why does this sound not only plausible but a complete certainty to me once it's mentioned?
    Selling off assets like this ALWAYS leads to higher pricing and rorting with NONE of the touted benefits to get the sale of said assets passed in the first place.
    The power industry has rorted everyone like never before and must be laughing it's head off.

    It's clear they will go headlong into solar because it is cheaper from a running and maintence POV. If the power co's can make their money in 6-8 Hours a day, all well and good. There is a system in place where they bid to sell their power on given days and times which also allows them to game the market and force up prices/profit.
    If they do not want to provide power say from 4 PM to 8am, there is no obligation for them to do so. If there is no power at 9 PM, not their problem.

    Once that situation occours however, the price will go up so it may in fact be come very profitable to run their old FF generator because now the off peak period has become in fact a peak pricing time due to the shortage of available power.

    Peak NSW wholesale price today was at 6-7 am at $256. By comparison, Midday price was $13. 1:30 am price was $80.
    Pretty easy to see where this is going.

    The other interesting thing is the old " off peak" Is becoming a fallacy. Right now NSW is pulling more power than it did at Midday. This is not uncommon now. Private rooftop Solar is taking a lot of the load off daytime demands and it is in fact night time where the most input is required. No wonder the power co's are trying to limit how much solar people can have or if at all. It's also interesting to see how little at most times wind contributes to the total energy demand at night when we are supposed to be able to get all our power from it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jma View Post
    Don't pay your bill...then you'll see they do
    I thought I'd take a risk and game the system myself.
    Over winter I can't produce enough solar for my needs even though last summer I switched half my systems off, ran the AC like no tomorrow and still had excess power to burn.

    I am most fortunate enough for the time being to have an old Spinny meters which I can run backwards during the day to rack up 1;1 Credits and effectively get paid for what I put in the same as they charge me for what I take out instead of being paid about 1/3 of what I'm charged.
    Last week I forced an estimated read by putting a temporary obstruction to the meter box. Happened to see the guy come, go round the corner and walk back 2 sec later. This quarter I'll be able to get ahead again and make up what I used last quarter. This is helped by the fact that I won't need heating or cooling and the sun and the amount of power I'm generating is ramping up quite nicely already.
    By getting an estimate I would have time to make up the power I used and get a much smaller bill that I would have otherwise.

    Got my estimated bill today which they went off the same time last year. No worries, we pay so much a week and are always in credit with power and water.
    I also got an email that because they couldn't access the meter, they want me to do a self read. Didn't know about that but no biggie. Works out fine.
    I'll Just give them the Numbers I want to give them, a minimal amount above what the last read was. That will effectively re set my reading to that point and give me time to make up the shortfall. If I don't get back to where I want, that will just be seen as consumption for this quarter and I'll be billed accordingly. I have to have some consumption and I'm on 3 phase with one electronic meter and 2 Spinny ones. Nothing I can do about the electronic meter so I minimise the the other 2 and that is what I pay for... Plus the " Connection fee" to keep all those poles and wires in gold plating. I have moved everything to the 2 analogue metered phases and the only thing still on the 3rd phase is one leg of the AC. Amazing what that costs to run even at 1/3rd the cost.

    The party will end sooner rather than later when they install a smart arse meter as they are required to do eventually. My plan then is to get a certified system installed of say 6.6 KW but get approval for 10 KW or more. Then I can backfeed my existing system and get a fit to offset the charges. The fit might only be 6-8 cents compared to .30c charges but at least I can run my systems flat out in summer instead of having to turn them off and it should not be hard to make close to 100 KWH day.

    Failing that, I have put a lot of things in place already to enable a pretty easy and low cost transition to going off grid. I'll crunch the numbers on that at the time and see which way is the cheapest to jump. I sure as hell won't be using some trendy manufactured all in one system, it will be good old lead acid and Charger/ controller. setup. Price alone may not even come into it, I'm happy to bet off grid will be a lot more reliable than grid connected.

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    Geez…all these problems and technical adjustments that we’re having to make to improve and optimise renewable energy.

    Thank goodness those things like motor vehicles, aeroplanes, computers, medical procedures, vaccines, drugs, refrigeration, mobile phones, electricity, internet, combustion engines, space travel, and the like, all came to us pre-designed, pre-optimised, and all ready to fly off the shelf for our enjoyment and indulgence.

    No tweaking, design changes, unforeseen errors, collateral damage, or unfortunate experiences necessary for these modern wonders….just straight into our lives and ready to roll.

    What is it with this pesky renewable energy?

    Well, at least we have a Federal Government with vision and a National Energy Plan that lays out the way forward for our future national energy needs, and will ensure that business has the direction and confidence to invest in the necessary infrastructure.

    Oh, hang on……….

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    Quote Originally Posted by george65 View Post

    The party will end sooner rather than later when they install a smart arse meter as they are required to do eventually. My plan then is to get a certified system installed of say 6.6 KW but get approval for 10 KW or more.
    one thing you might be shocked with is considering you have as you say the old spinny
    meter then that tells me you have an old meter box and it would have an asbestos board.

    If that is the case have a spare 2-3k to get it upgraded by a level 2 sparky because when they come out
    and see it they will post a fail on the box.

    i found this out the hard expensive way.

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    Some people have solved the problem.......undoubtedly more will follow:

    Power to the people: the home owners with $3.65 electricity bills

    Cooler in summer, warmer in winter, a greater sense of community – and single-digit electricity bills … For those living in Australia’s new sustainable housing estates, what’s not to like?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Thala Dan View Post

    Thank goodness those things like motor vehicles, aeroplanes, computers, medical procedures, vaccines, drugs, refrigeration, mobile phones, electricity, internet, combustion engines, space travel, and the like, all came to us pre-designed, pre-optimised, and all ready to fly off the shelf for our enjoyment and indulgence.

    No tweaking, design changes, unforeseen errors, collateral damage, or unfortunate experiences necessary for these modern wonders….just straight into our lives and ready to roll.
    A crock of BS Spoken like a true green washed leftie.

    Nearly all of what you mentioned was invented and majorly developed with an abacus rather than a computer like we have now. Those things that were done with computers probably had less computing power than your Mobile phone. Times have changed. They build Fighter aircraft now and don't even wind test Models. No need to. They know exactly how they will behave before the things are even started on their build. Nothing needs 100 test flights to sort things out, they know exactly what they are going to do before they are off the drawing board.

    These days you can computer model ANYTHING to know whether it will work or not. You don't need to experiment and have failures, especially for something like a power grid where all the data is available. Consumption, efficiency, weather , transmission losses, costs, returns, you name it.
    It's all there, easy to do the calculations on have have a VERY good idea of every single aspect of a given scenario. Anyone that rolls out the old Bullcrap about having to do something in order to test something or make the next lot better is kidding themselves or knowingly telling lies.

    Add to that there is already more than enough examples and experience of RE around the world to have a Real good idea of how it's going to work and despite the typical spin doctoring like this comment, the results are far from good.
    Plenty of places are backing away from RE and they are Positively running from wind energy. The installed capacity of wind is falling like so many turdbine towers have.

    It's one thing to have Panels on your roof or a home battery, something completely different to scale up to a national grid.

    There are no secrets or unknowns about RE. It's all out there and you could pay any amount of University's or research companies to tell you anything you want to know. The problems are completely obvious if one is realistic and not obsessed by the green cult and it's lies and fantasy.

    The ONLY reason RE exists today is because of Gubbermint subsidies that make it profitable. We are told it so much cheaper than FF but I have yet to hear of one solar or wind farm that wasn't built with or receiving ongoing Gubbermint handouts . I'm also wondering why if it is so cheap why RE obsessed places like SA have the highest power prices in the world?

    To make out we don't know enough about RE to know wether it's going to provide reliable, dependable power at a competitive price and what the pitfalls of it are is a laughable excuse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fandtm666 View Post
    one thing you might be shocked with is considering you have as you say the old spinny
    meter then that tells me you have an old meter box and it would have an asbestos board.
    Thankfully the place is only 20 years old and the board is not asbestos .

    If that is the case have a spare 2-3k to get it upgraded by a level 2 sparky because when they come out
    and see it they will post a fail on the box.
    Getting a few things upgraded in the next week or 2 . There is an RCD that most of the Circuits are on. Pain in the arse of an idea. I was moving a powerpoint in the laundry yesterday and with the power off, I touched the Neutral and the earth at the same time. Lights and everything else went out. Had a lead outside a while back under the verandah and I assume a bit of moisture got in it one morning and again, took out the whole house. They are a cumulative thing so a couple of Ma here, a few there and the thing is tripping out on perfectly good and safe circuits because they all add up.
    I'm getting individual RCDS on every circuit Including the garage where stupidly, there isn't one on all the circuits now. If I'm ever going to zap myself, it's about a 99;1 chance it will be up there.

    Also getting some 32A circuits put in for the solar and 3 Phase 10MM up the shed. That will be $1300 alone with me doing the trenches and running the outdoor cable and Conduit . Will have a sub board in the shed so it is protected and Isolated. Am also going to have a Change over switch installed so I can run the house off a generator with a flick of the wrist. I have already done most of the wire runs, just leaving it for the sparky to see and connect up. I really hate running cables down walls and into meter boxes and squeezing to the edge of eaves. Always was too big for that and felt claustrophobic. My brain lacks the concentration I once had and I want things like that to be legit so just paying a well recommended guy to do it.

    Probably still be technically Illegal like my last house when I finished with it. Had 23 Circuits so I could isolate anything and everything. Had I have fired up everything I had at one time, house would have been fine but the power pole would have caught fire. Literally! :0)

    Only got 16mm to the pole here but at least I'll have 3 phases so will be enough especially as I'll be generating on the house side and rarely pulling much from the grid.

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    Ah well, looks like the people have placed their bets
    Lets see what actually unfolds this summer

    Or right now even... Coldest time of the year in Vic, should be heaps of load on the system
    (not all of us have town gas)
    If u want to go on an expedition get a Land Rover, if u want to come home from an expedition get a Landcruiser!

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    Quote Originally Posted by george65 View Post
    Times have changed. They build Fighter aircraft now and don't even wind test Models. No need to. They know exactly how they will behave before the things are even started on their build. Nothing needs 100 test flights to sort things out, they know exactly what they are going to do before they are off the drawing board.


    F-35 stealth fighter is still struggling with a string of big problems even as the Pentagon talks about ramping up production

    America’s most expensive weapon – Lockheed Martin’s F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter – is still struggling with a number of serious problems, such as destructive chain reactions triggered by a flat tire, a weird green glow on the helmet display that makes it difficult to land on aircraft carriers, and a loss of stealth at supersonic speeds.


    In terms of modern-day, computerised design, just the tip of a very large iceberg.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thala Dan View Post


    F-35 stealth fighter is still struggling with a string of big problems even as the Pentagon talks about ramping up production





    In terms of modern-day, computerised design, just the tip of a very large iceberg.
    Your indignant but laughable rebuttal that computerised design and modelling doesen't work is to use one example of some problems in one of the most Complex and sophisticated machines ever built?
    Why am I not surprised?

    You do realise the thing is so aerodynamically unstable to the point it couldn't even fly without computer management don't you?

    One doesen't even need a computer to see the gaping chasms in the RE grid idea. All that is needed is some basic Mathematics and to lay off getting wacked out your brain on the green Kool Aide.
    Of course a devise that allows you to get on the net and read how it's failing the world over would achieve the same result. You just need your greenwashed filter on for that.

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    Yep WA - "wait awhile" and not connected to the national grid. Like it or not the best outcome for some things and not for others
    But the power issue is different in that issues are there but for different reasons. Distance is an issue and reiability of aging assets like poles and wire.
    Been a concerted effort to upgade a lot of towns and lines to the towns in the last few years and see them guys working to complete these upgrades all the time.

    But it is a Govt owned utility so that in my opinion is even better than the east coast as revenue goes back into the coffers and not to some greedy private clown that thinks only of profit.
    Yes there are some downsides to this also but there is no perfect ideal.

    As for getting approval for bigger connections, who cares. Get a system and add to it yourself, no need to tell them anything about the addition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ol' boy View Post
    Ah well, looks like the people have placed their bets
    Lets see what actually unfolds this summer
    I don't see where anyone has placed their bets except me.
    I'm willing to back my position up with cold hard cash. Seems everyone else just wants to talk the talk but doesen't have the guts to back it up.
    If others are so sure I'm wrong and it's all Hype, why is no one prepared to make what would be fantastic returns on a short term investment?

    Maybe deep down they aren't nearly as confident of their position as they like to pretend?
    Of course not even being willing to set the rules of the game, when it does happen they will come up with all sorts of leftist Greenwashed excuses that it wasn't significant or was caused by something else or what ever to avoid being seen to have been wrong.

    Everyone knows better than someone else going against the sheeple mentality but no one has the Cohonies to back it up even when they argue they have the experts on their side.

    Says a lot about society these days. Unfortunately.

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