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Thread: Do you Earth your Dishes ?

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    Default Do you Earth your Dishes ?

    I want to ask a question about Earthing your satellite dishes. I have 9 satellite dishes. The biggest is 2.3m and the smallest is 80cm. Now ill tell you what has been going on. In the last 10 years I have wiped out 3 TV's plus 2xHDMI boards on a any tv on one room only and that is our eat room. Now in this eat room i've always had a 65 inch LCD and under that I have a skybox a1 (PS each Lighting strike wipes out ONE Skybox A1 in the eat room) so what happens is whenever there is a bad storm around, you guessed it, this TV room only, i'll say it again, this TV room only gets wiped out. Thank God so far my main TV room has not been affected because in this room I have an expensive Sony TV plus 8x24 inch monitors with 6 skybox a1's plus ultimo 4k boxes and onther VU Products. Now this room has been good, touch wood.

    We go back to the eat TV room where we have our dinner. I want to know why this room only gets affected by lightning. I have the Belkin 600 joules surge protector, protects the power AND the Antenna. I have 5800 joules Belkin Surge Protector protecting the main TV room and thats no problem but i've tried everything to stop the eat room TV getting splattered whenever there is lightning around. I even tried the below:

    The Below is in the Broom Closet



    The above photo is an lightning isolator so all I have to do is disconnect this as on one end I have the wide F connectors and it is easy to disconnect so whenever there is a storm I disconnect one end only which totally disconnects our system from the antenna but even then last year we wiped out another TV (HDMI board gone + the TV too) plus we wiped out the skybox a1. Now this TV has been killed by the Skybox A1 then via the HDMI lead to the TV or the TV is getting killed somehow via the antenna. Now this is a critical point to know. In my in-house antenna system I use a 10 port out and in the eat room where I have the POWER INJECTOR I use the ass of that power injector for that TV to give it an aerial. Now after I blew up the last TV, I now made that port only for the 10 port splitter to be used for the power injector and I added another splitter in the roof from another bedroom to give me an RG6 back to the eat room. Now I'm not Complaining because my MAIN TV Room is not effected so far in the last10 years because that Main TV room we have spent alot of money on the 75 inch Sony and plenty of 24 inch TVs and plenty of Oppos and a range of Yamaha amplifiers and I have to thank god that this room has not been affected. I would still like to know why our eat room where we eat our room at night has been affected every year either by a HDMI board dying with a Skybox A1 or the complete TV dies with another Skybox A1. Where is the extra spike coming from? Is it coming from the HDMI via my Skybox A1 or somehow the injector that was using the 12 volts to the antenna Mast head Amplifier and the eat room TV was plugged in the rear of it. The other thing I would like to say, I cannot guarantee you that I might not have disconnected by antenna isolator before the lightning strike so the question is. Should I Earth my dishes? The whole 9 of them to an earth stake then connect back to the earth link in the main switchboard of the house.

    What do you think
    Last edited by Mr 672A; 29-08-19 at 11:32 AM.
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    If I had to guess I would say the earthing of the power points is faulty in your eat room
    are you a self appointed hypocrite sheriff or just a nasty person

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    Earthing the dishes is a good idea, but they need to be grounded individually beside each dish.

    Tying them together will increase the risk of spreading any surge to all of them and under no circumstances should they be connected to the building main switchboard earth.

    If you are in a lightning-prone area I recommend fitting lightning surge suppressors to each coaxial cable, bonded together with a grounded building entry point.

    (This is the same method used at transmitter and link sites, etc.... but with separate lightning rods and grounding systems etc)

    You will need 75 ohm types. .

    Nothing will completely arrest a direct strike, but they are very effective in suppressing static-induced discharge, which is the issue you appear to be experiencing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtv View Post
    Earthing the dishes is a good idea, but they need to be grounded individually beside each dish.

    Tying them together will increase the risk of spreading any surge to all of them and under no circumstances should they be connected to the building main switchboard earth.

    If you are in a lightning-prone area I recommend fitting lightning surge suppressors to each coaxial cable, bonded together with a grounded building entry point.

    (This is the same method used at transmitter and link sites, etc.... but with separate lightning rods and grounding systems etc)

    You will need 75 ohm types. .

    Nothing will completely arrest a direct strike, but they are very effective in suppressing stating-induced discharge, which is the issue you appear to be experiencing.
    +1! Wot 'e sed!
    I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtv View Post
    Earthing the dishes is a good idea, but they need to be grounded individually beside each dish.

    Tying them together will increase the risk of spreading any surge to all of them and under no circumstances should they be connected to the building main switchboard earth.

    If you are in a lightning-prone area I recommend fitting lightning surge suppressors to each coaxial cable, bonded together with a grounded building entry point.

    (This is the same method used at transmitter and link sites, etc.... but with separate lightning rods and grounding systems etc)

    You will need 75 ohm types. .

    Nothing will completely arrest a direct strike, but they are very effective in suppressing static-induced discharge, which is the issue you appear to be experiencing.

    So I need 9 x 3M Earthing Rods say connected with a 6MM Earth Cable to each dish + I need as many as I have Sat Boxes a 2.5ghz-f-type-bulkhead-f-f-surge-protector-rf-coax-series-75-ohm

    What do you mean by saying ,,,,,,bonded together with a grounded building entry point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hinekadon View Post
    If I had to guess I would say the earthing of the power points is faulty in your eat room
    Just checked and all is ok. I normally Check the House Every years Around September as once a Year I check using the RCD tester to test all power Points. When we bough the house I wired it for 3 Phase and then wired on EVERY Circuit with a RCD including the Cook top and the Oven lights and if I had nuisance tripping I ether fixed the appliance or throw it away or returned it. I even put a Circuit for the Fridge and Freezer together both a P/P for each one + I have a Isolator on the wall that shuts off either of them as most today commit the Cardinal Sin (Sorry George Pell) and that is move the fridge or freezer when it running and considering the P/Point is always behind how do you move it with out turning the Main OFF so I have a Isolator to isolate them when it time for our Yearly Maintenance which is September. I' a Very Maintenance Frick.
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    How many people remember about 15 years ago Foxtel used to have wall plates with a seperate linked earth post on them and a short cable to a 3 pin electrical plug on it with only the earth connected to the post.

    This was supposedly to provide earth path from for the dish to the house wiring.

    These were subsequently banned aa they did not meet ASA standards and could provide a electrical shock risk in some cases.

    If you want to go back further with dodgy setups.

    In the 70s you could get standard twin power points that had a ganged insert to add a 75 ohm Pal tv point. The fixing for these was a simple crimp rinq. so if for some unforeseen circumstances the 75 ohm cable came loose it was potentially in the path of the 240volt terminals.

    But again as suggested by others in the group. I would get someone to check the electrical circuit in the eat room if this is an ongoing issue.

    At one point I had some Reno work done in my house and after it was complete I kept getting a small shock every time I went to the back of the computer to disconnect USB and other cables. It was found that a Electritian had only connected half my house to the earth bar in the meter box and the other side had come loose.

    In some places in Europe the electrical substations provide the earth not the actual house.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmoore View Post

    But again as suggested by others in the group. I would get someone to check the electrical circuit in the eat room if this is an ongoing issue.
    When we had the house built I wire it myself with 3 phase also to the work garage + I used 1.5MM (multi strands)for the Lights not single 1.0mm conductor cheaper cable that other electricians uses and used 2.5MM for the P/P's and 4.0mm to either the cook top. Every circuit was protected by own RCD's Now that's 3 lights circuits, 4 P/P, one cook top, one oven and other so I totally filled the Complete allowable space on the switchboard. Yes I don't thing I needs someone to check my system as it was checked originally and I continually Check it every year. As being a Very Good Maintenance Electrician for 25 years I would guarantee they nothing wrong with the wiring where the Eat room TV is but I thing there is a Murphy
    problem here thats causing the issue. (Forgot to say) Now on my Main TV room where all the other stuff is its Protected in the room in one of the cabinets with Power Conditioner/ UPS but I had this for 4 years what about the other 6 years when I did not have it and had no issue with it.
    Now I thinking out of the Square as I had a lot off issue with under Volts from any phase to neutral and that is 214V or even 212V ONLY ON HOT SUMMER DAYS and on hot days where you have the storms all the aera has the Air Cons on lower the Voltages + Next Door Air Con is a full ducted Air Con that does case spike in our house so I hat to Change my p/p I use in the Main TV room to another phase to get away from that DOL (direct on line) Starting Air con but Now I will see what phase the eat room TV is on as I have printed somewhere whats on what phases.
    Yes something is very odd whats happening here as even the Best Electrician will scratch his head on my complicated system in our house. Trust me no one has as wiring system like ours and I thing because of this I'm getting this odd issue but I think the issue that MTV is saying ,,,,,,very effective in suppressing static-induced discharge, which is the issue you appear to be experiencing.

    Trust me I have a very complicated system and this alone could be responsible for giving this issue.

    Argggh I forgot to tell you all, Every Bedroom (4 out of 5) in the House has it own wall mounted TV and had no issue at all and we dont disconnected nothing during as storm

    I might start with 9 earth rods as the separate surge protectors on each satellite box will cost me over $500 but if I have to spend that money to GIVE more protection I will do it.
    Last edited by Mr 672A; 30-08-19 at 10:11 AM.
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    If you want to remove static discharge then the dish ground resistance has to be less than all other earth resistances as they are parallel circuits therefore the cable size to the dish ground will have to be much bigger and as short as possible with no compromise in direction "or short and straight "as possible . Every bend in the cable adds to its impedance and not inductive its very hard to get the impedance down , the sudden rise of voltage from the discharge creates a huge impedence and this causes the damage to it trying to find the path of least resistance to ground . Its a hard situation to explain in detail but trust me its not dc resistance that you are looking for its ac due to the short duration of the discharge .There you go look at it differently cheers don
    are you a self appointed hypocrite sheriff or just a nasty person

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr 672A View Post
    Just checked and all is ok. I normally Check the House Every years Around September as once a Year I check using the RCD tester to test all power Points.
    The first mistake is to assume a millimeters gap in an RCD will block what three kilometers of sky cannot. Or that an RCD, that takes milliseconds or longer to trip, will somehow 'block' a transient done in microseconds.

    Only urban myths 'block' or 'absorb' that energy from a surge. And yet that is exactly what a Belkin or equivalent magic boxes must do. How does its 600 joules 'absorb' a surge that can be hundreds of thousands of joules?

    Second, wall receptacle safety ground is completely different from many other, electrically different grounds (logic ground, floating ground, analog ground, ground plane on an antenna, virtual ground, ground beneath shoes that is relevant for static electricity, chassis ground, power ground, or earth ground). Only relevant ground is earth ground. It must be 'single point earth ground', as another may have noted. (All four words have electrical significance.)

    Relevant concept was demonstrated by Franklin over 250 years ago. Lightning connected to distant earthborne charges destructively via something more conductive - wooden church steeple. But that steeple is not very conductive. So steeple damaged.

    Franklin simply connected direct lightning strikes to earth via something very conductive. So lightning no longer connected to distant charges (maybe four kilometers away) destructively via a steeple.

    Lightning connect to distant earthborne charges destructively via appliances. But appliances are not sufficiently conductive. So appliances (ie satellite dish electronics) damaged.

    Solution implemented the world over, even 100 years ago, connected lightning to distant earthborne charges via a 'whole house' protector that connects low impedance (ie less than 3 meters) to earth. So lightning no longer connected to distant charges (maybe four kilometers away) destructively via any household appliance (including dish electronics).

    Third, an AC utility demonstrates how to avert damage. View good, bad, and ugly (preferred, wrong, and right) installations at:

    then select Tech Tip 8.

    Protection is always about how that electric current connects from the cloud (maybe three kilometers up) to earthborne charges (maybe 4 kilometers through earth). Protection means that path is not anywhere inside. That means every wire inside every incoming cable must make a low impedance (ie less than 3 meter) connection to the same earth ground. Not wall receptacle safety ground or any other ground. It must be those earthing electrodes.

    If any other earth ground is used, then all protection is compromised.

    Four, these techniques are well understood. Each dish is treated as if separate structures. So each dish must have its own single point earth ground. Its coax cable must connect directly (low impedance) to that earth ground.

    At the other end of each cable must be a low impedance (ie hardwire has no sharp bends) connection to the building's earth ground. That connection made BEFORE that coax cable enters.

    Well, that best protection (that uses no protector) means a surge is not incoming on any dish. But most surges are incoming on AC mains. A direct lightning strike to AC wires many blocks down the street is a direct strike incoming to every appliance. Are all damaged? Of course not. This is electricity. So it must also have a completely different outgoing path to earth ground. Only some appliances might make a destructive outgoing connection.

    Incoming on AC mains. Outgoing destructively to earth via the sat decoder and properly earthed coax cables. Once a surge is all but invited inside by any wire, then it will go hunting for earth ground destructively via any appliances.

    Protection means every wire (all AC wires) also must connect to that same earth ground. Safety codes only define one AC wire connected to earth. Surge protection means all wires must connect to earth. So all over the world, that connection is made by a 'whole house' protector.

    Again, that connection must be low impedance. A protector must make a less than 3 meter connection from each AC wire to single point ground. That connection must have no sharp bends or splices, not be inside metallic conduit, must be separated from other non-grounding wire, and must as short as possible. Connector length is more critical than connector diameter.

    Obviously most of this was unknown by most others. And yet this technology has been standard in all Telstra facilities for longer than any of us have existed.

    Again, no plug-in box does or even claims to provide effective protection. The effective protectors come from other manufacturers who a have earned a reputation for integrity (Belkin has not). Such as Clipsal, ABB, Siemens, and Novaris to name but a few.

    Five, lightning is typically 20,000 amps. (Static electricity is microamps - irrelelvant.) So a minimal 'whole house' protector is 50,000 amps. Because protectors must remain functional for many decades after multiple direct lightning strikes. These effective products will probably cost about $1 per protected appliance - tens of times less than Belkin.

    An effective solution will always answer this question. Where do hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate? That hardwire connection from coax to earth ground or that low impedance connection from AC mains to earth ground - both are answers to that question. Belkin's answer: a paltry 600 joules. Ineffective protection. And another device that must be protected by the 'whole house' solution.

    Finally, best evidence is found in each damaged electronics. Damage defines incoming and outgoing paths. Damage is most often on the outgoing path. How does that cloud connect to earth and earthborne charges some 4 km distant? Damage only happens when the path is anywhere inside a building. Nothing inside a building even claims to protect from such transients. Damage is always averted when that transient current connects to earth BEFORE entering a building.
    Last edited by westom; 30-08-19 at 12:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr 672A View Post
    Now I thinking out of the Square as I had a lot off issue with under Volts from any phase to neutral and that is 214V or even 212V ONLY ON HOT SUMMER DAYS and on hot days where you have the storms all the aera has the Air Cons on lower the Voltages + Next Door Air Con is a full ducted Air Con that does case spike in our house so I hat to Change my p/p I use in the Main TV room to another phase to get away from that DOL (direct on line) Starting Air con but Now I will see what phase the eat room TV is on as I have printed somewhere whats on what phases.
    Yes something is very odd whats happening here as even the Best Electrician will scratch his head on my complicated system in our house.

    Trust me I have a very complicated system and this alone could be responsible for giving this issue.

    You electrical system is not complex at all. Multiple circuits protected by RCD is very common. However I am concerned about the phase to neutral voltage of 212V.

    How accurate is your measurement? Is it the same between phase and earth?

    Low volts (and also high volts) is a common cause of equipment failure especially during a storm event. Lower the volts, higher the current.

    If the phase to earth volts are significantly higher than the phase to Neutral volts whilst the installation is under load, it may point to a high impedance neutral that will cause significant appliance loss and most importantly can be fatal. This type of situation can only be detected by a fault loop impedance test performed by you electricity distributor. Have you contacted them to lodge an enquiry?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr 672A View Post
    Now I thinking out of the Square as I had a lot off issue with under Volts from any phase to neutral and that is 214V or even 212V ONLY ON HOT SUMMER DAYS and on hot days where you have the storms all the aera has the Air Cons on lower the Voltages + Next Door Air Con is a full ducted Air Con that does case spike in our house so I hat to Change my p/p I use in the Main TV room to another phase to get away from that DOL (direct on line) Starting Air con but Now I will see what phase the eat room TV is on as I have printed somewhere whats on what phases.
    You electrical system is not complex at all. Multiple circuits protected by RCD is very common. However I am concerned about the phase to neutral voltage of 212V.

    How accurate is your measurement? Is it the same between phase and earth?

    Low volts (and also high volts) is a common cause of equipment failure especially during a storm event. Lower the volts, higher the current.

    If the phase to Neutral volts are low whilst the installation is under load, it may point to a high impedance neutral that will cause significant appliance loss and most importantly can be fatal. This type of situation can only be detected by a fault loop impedance test performed by you electricity distributor. Have you contacted them to lodge an enquiry?
    Last edited by fisht99; 30-08-19 at 10:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fisht99 View Post
    If the phase to Neutral volts are low whilst the installation is under load, it may point to a high impedance neutral that will cause significant appliance loss and most importantly can be fatal.
    A best diagnostic tool is an incandescent light bulb. If wiring has a defect (or suffers from poor workmanship), then that bulb will change intensity when major appliances power cycle (on or off). That bulb is a superb diagnostic tool. Since it monitors voltages constantly. And make obvious when variations occur.

    Voltage variation is potentially harmful to motorized appliances. That bulb can dim to 50% intensity or double intensity due to voltage variations. Voltages variations that large are perfectly good voltages for all electronics. If voltage drops lower, electronics simply power off without any damage (other than to unsaved data).

    Voltage variations do not explain damage discussed here. AC voltage variations are problematic to a furnace, refrigerator, washing machine, dish washer, and central air. It does nothing to satellite dish hardware.

    Topic here is about a current and where that current travels. If anything foolishly tries to block that current (ie a plug-in protector), then voltage increases as necessary to blow through that item. A voltage that is completely different and unrelated to AC voltage variations.
    Last edited by westom; 31-08-19 at 10:02 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hinekadon View Post
    If you want to remove static discharge then the dish ground resistance has to be less than all other earth resistances as they are parallel circuits therefore the cable size to the dish ground will have to be much bigger and as short as possible with no compromise in direction "or short and straight "as possible . Every bend in the cable adds to its impedance and not inductive its very hard to get the impedance down , the sudden rise of voltage from the discharge creates a huge impedence and this causes the damage to it trying to find the path of least resistance to ground . Its a hard situation to explain in detail but trust me its not dc resistance that you are looking for its ac due to the short duration of the discharge .There you go look at it differently cheers don
    As MTV said the earth rod next to the dish is best and possible use a 6mm earth cable in a straight line.
    Now I don't care if I spend $$$$ on 9 Earth Rods but the other thing that scare me is in that area I have 1/ Sewer Pipe and 2/ Storm water pipe(around 450M down as I found one of them) in that area, stupid me I should have taking info where the pipe are and considering the plastic Sewer Pipe is around 2m down (at the Inspecting it is 2.5M down, screwed the lid of and measured it) and considering SHI,T go down hill so I say when the pipe leave the house its around 1M than the Dish Farm its around 2m and to hammer a 3M rod I could be unlucky
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    Quote Originally Posted by westom View Post
    A best diagnostic tool is an incandescent light bulb. If wiring has a defect (or suffers from poor workmanship), then that bulb will change intensity when major appliances power cycle (on or off). That bulb is a superb diagnostic tool. Since it monitors voltages constantly. And make obvious when variations occur.

    Voltage variation is potentially harmful to motorized appliances. That bulb can dim to 50% intensity or double intensity due to voltage variations. Voltages variations that large are perfectly good voltages for all electronics. If voltage drops lower, electronics simply power off without any damage (other than to unsaved data).

    Voltage variations do not explain damage discussed here. AC voltage variations are problematic to a furnace, refrigerator, washing machine, dish washer, and central air. It does nothing to satellite dish hardware.

    Topic here is about a current and where that current travels. If anything foolishly tries to block that current (ie a plug-in protector), then voltage increases as necessary to blow through that item. A voltage that is completely different and unrelated to AC voltage variations.
    Good to see you back my Engineer Friend (I think its you) Try not to have Stroke otherwise you will end up like me.
    After 5 Years in the House I got board and done some Electrical Maintenance so I ripped all the Power Points OFF, jiggled them, then re- tightened them and put them back, the same goes the switch Board I checked all connecting Neutral Link, Checked all Connection on all Circuit Breakers, I checked everything and anything and then clean the switch board Spotless. I've had Energex out a few time in hot summer days with under Volts in the street and beside checking the pillar box they check my Switch board and comment how neat it is and NOW CLEAN it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by westom View Post
    A best diagnostic tool is an incandescent light bulb. If wiring has a defect (or suffers from poor workmanship), then that bulb will change intensity when major appliances power cycle (on or off). That bulb is a superb diagnostic tool. Since it monitors voltages constantly. And make obvious when variations occur.
    very interesting!!! Funny thing is I have been using my wifes Bed Lamp on one of our Circuits to show Energex what happens when the Next door Full Ducted OLD, DOL Air Con starts.
    westom if its you that I was talking about years ago (maybe I wrong) inbetween my Strokes you must have some method to let you know when someone talks about EARTHING
    Not responsible for any post written after the 28/10/2014. My pet hate, Corrupt Politicians, Corrupt Legal System + a legal system Australia wide that does not allow you to sue a Solicitor or Barrister for Professional Negligence (as Stated by the Law Society and prominent Lawyers) and Corrupt Cops. Not necessarily in this order. Please Note Lawyers are PROTECTED SPECIES IN THIS COUNTRY, PROTECTED FROM THEIR F..K UPS

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    I wonder how much you have read up on this subject ???? firstly lightning never reaches the ground as there is a spur that comes from the ground to the incoming "bolt" this spur is a combined branch of all grounds in the vacinity of the location . there are photos of this phenonim on the web the point where the two meet is the most destructive then the overhead charge burns down to the source of the grounds , Different soil types have different resistances so three meters is not always correct and should not be taken as such .Grounding has been shown to have the least impedance when its surface area is spread horizontal across the ground in a mat format but the contact with effective ground is below the surface therefore stakes are used to make it effective ie the more stakes the more connection to earth ground . Six mm cable is a joke to pass the sorts of current involved so a rethink in this area is required
    are you a self appointed hypocrite sheriff or just a nasty person

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    Quote Originally Posted by hinekadon View Post
    firstly lightning never reaches the ground as there is a spur that comes from the ground to the incoming "bolt" this spur is a combined branch of all grounds in the vacinity of the location .
    By spur do you mean stepped leader?
    If it never hits the ground then what explains the 3 foot deep charred hole left in blacksoil clay country when a positive strike hit the ground about 30 metres from where I was standing at the time?

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    There is an assumption that it hit the ground but its the spur leaving the ground that makes the hole . the spur is theoretical negatively charged that is attracted to the positive charged bolt I dont mean a stepped leader .
    are you a self appointed hypocrite sheriff or just a nasty person

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    Got any links I can have a look at about these spurs?
    Searching around I can't seem to find anything about them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hinekadon View Post
    There is an assumption that it hit the ground but its the spur leaving the ground that makes the hole .
    Construction of a plasma path is confused with the actual current flow. That construction (if I remember the number) typically occurs in 30 foot sections. That last section is often a so called 'stepped leader' from the ground up to the rest of that plasma path. This construction may take milliseconds.

    Once that entire plasma path is created (by a high voltage with a low current), then a lightning strike (ie 20,000 amps) flows in microseconds.

    A fluorescent lamp works similar. First a high voltage with tiny current converts an inert gas into plasma. Then a low voltage, high current flows through that plasma keeping it in a plasma state and creating light.

    Whereas a fluorescent bulb remains constantly in a plasma state, that lightning current only flows for microseconds. In both examples, that current flows everywhere in that plasma path at the same time.

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