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Thread: The Cash (or anti cash) Bill

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    Default The Cash (or anti cash) Bill

    Just as the new NPP (New Payments Platform) system is hacked, now we get this b*llshit...............



    Probably paywalled.

    Draconian cash bill treats us all as tax-dodging criminalsKatrina Grace Kelly

    12:00AM August 31, 2019
    484 Comments

    Perhaps you, like me, sometimes lie awake at night worrying. When the blackness is pressing in, all sorts of issues raise their heads — particularly, how our basic freedoms keep disappearing. The Morrison government in particular is escalating this trend.

    This is not a reference to the so-called culture wars. These, in my opinion, distract us from matters more pressing.
    For example, I don’t lie awake and worry about what things people from the left say on Twitter. I don’t worry about whether someone else’s child feels they are not a boy and should be a girl, or vice versa. This personal issue is theirs to deal with, and I struggle to see why any of us should intrude.

    Perhaps there is something wrong with me, but what other people wear, how they live, who they have sex with and marry or what religion they believe in isn’t of concern unless it directly affects my freedoms.
    At the moment, we should all worry about something important and real. If the Morrison government gets its way, next year we could be sent to prison for 2½ years for the crime of taking $10,000 of our own after-tax money in cash and buying something such as a car or an item of jewellery off someone with an Australian Business Number. And no, you can’t buy something for $10,000 and split the payment into two parts, and both parties to the transaction will be equally prosecuted.

    This is not a nightmare or a joke. The Currency (Restrictions of the Use of Cash Bill) 2019 is in the queue to go before parliament.
    Some time ago, the black economy taskforce recommended a ban on cash to tackle tax evasion and criminal conduct.

    To a hammer, everything looks like a nail, and to people from the Australian Taxation Office everyone with cash in their hand looks like a tax-dodging criminal. And so this is how they want everyone using certain amounts of cash to be treated. There are exemptions planned, we are told. The cash ban won’t apply to individual-to-individual transactions, so a private sale of a second-hand car would be OK.

    However, if one of the people to the private transaction happens to hold an ABN because they are a subcontractor or business owner then they may be caught, but we just don’t know.
    The ban doesn’t apply when we deposit or withdraw money from a bank. So for the moment, at least, we still will be allowed to physically touch our own money — let’s be grateful for small mercies.
    If the whole issue is news to you, then it is little wonder. On July 26 this year, the government released the exposure draft for public consultation and closed submissions about two weeks later, on August 12.
    Originally, this crazy move was announced as an “economy-wide cash payment limit” in the 2018-19 budget, and since that time the issue has been ignored.
    Once the bill passes, the new law will take effect from January 1 next year, and a year later for certain Australian Transaction Reports and Analysis Centre reporting entities.
    Scott Morrison appears determined to sneak this through with the help of Labor, which stands ready to assist. Presumably, anyone who has $10,000 in cash is from the big end of town anyway, and so deserving of prison, even if only for a couple of years.

    Now I can’t speak for anyone else in this column but I can speak for me. I have earned my cash, I have paid tax on it, and although I am not in the habit of walking around with it, if I want to take it out of the bank and use it to go and buy something, or pay a bill, then I should be able to do that without fear of prosecution.

    Cash is a legal currency and it is unacceptable for the government to prevent us from using it. My freedom, and yours, is going to be reduced by this draconian new law. And with low or even negative interest rates coming, people may want to keep cash reserves at home to use as required.

    It is time to put the blowtorch on this government over its hypocritical conduct. It talks the talk but doesn’t walk the walk. It pretends to care about removing red tape, but its first instinct is to regulate.
    You may think that people who have nothing to hide have nothing to worry about with this bill, but that is not the point. Once it is passed, it is all over for the people of this country in terms of freedom and liberty. We are on the cusp of an unprecedented move into a situation where the state has an unreasonable amount of control over the citizen.
    Just imagine, too, how other governments will tighten this noose in the future. A $10,000 limit today means a smaller limit tomorrow. The boffins who created the bill wanted a limit of $2000, so the writing is on the wall.

    Katrina Grace Kelly
    Columnist
    Katrina Grace Kelly is a regular columnist with the Australian. Her early years were spent in the Labour movement, before she started her own industrial relations consulting business. She has written for other ... Read more
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    All part of the ubiquitous war on cash, enf.

    Many of our wonderful “democracies” currently participating:

    Things Just Got Serious in Europe’s War on Cash



    and here's the end game:

    For now, the pretext most often wheeled out for this escalating assault on physical currency is the War on Terror, but there are also the familiar bugbears like organized crime, tax evasion and the informal economy.

    These justifications merely serve to obscure the real ultimate goal: the complete — or near-complete — technocratic control over the money supply. In a world where every transaction must be electronic (i.e. traceable) and where biometric authentication systems have become the norm, the influence of big banks, corporations, tech firms and governments over our lives will be virtually unlimited.

    Another important perk of cash is that it limits central banks’ ability to continue conducting arguably the greatest financial heist of the modern age, i.e., negative interest rate policy (NIRP). As long as cash exists, there’s no way of preventing depositors from doing the logical thing – i.e. taking their money out of the bank and parking it where the erosive effects of NIRP can’t reach it.
    NIRP (Negative Interest Rate Policy)is something already alive and well in many countries.

    Once cash is abolished, all of your money wealth must be held in an electronic account.....from which every single transaction, both in and out, can be monitored by the government, and/or their chosen appointees.

    And, you can be charged for the privilege of holding your money in that account (by virtue of NIRP).......a move which encourages you to spend your electronic money, rather than pay to have it sit in the account.

    The perfect tool to control an economy.......jack the account interest rates up when inflation is high, and everyone leaves their money in the account thus reducing consumption and putting downwards pressure on inflation.

    On the other hand, when the economy finds itself in the doldrums (like now), simply drop the interest rate below zero (that is, charge account holders for minding their money), thus encouraging them to spend the damn stuff and, bingo.....economy out of the doldrums.

    And just imagine the orgasmic reaction of the corporate world, as it finds itself able to have a peek at every single one of the goods and services on which your electronic money is spent.....that will make tomorrows targeted advertising make todays effort look like the Town Crier.

    And, of course, the government would no doubt take something more than a passing interest in how and where you spend your hard-earned.

    It's an Orwellian nightmare, mate, and like their mindless personal revelations on social media, the younger generations are flocking to it like moths to a flame.

    And one other thing......it is my understanding that the initial limit of $10,000, whilst included in the legislation, is not actually mandated by that legislation....in other words the specified amount can simply be changed by Regulation, without any need to go back and refer to that pesky parliament for ratification.

    Another interesting article on the subject:

    The War Against Cash



    Epilogue:

    And to top it off, everything will be on your smartphone.

    So, with just that one device in your pocket, those authorised (and some that aren’t) will be able to see what you read, who you talk to and what you say, where your money comes from and where it goes to, and where you currently are and have been in the past.

    Sheesh….George Orwell was just a bloody amateur.
    Last edited by Thala Dan; 01-09-19 at 03:19 PM.

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    ^ Thanks, didn't know 'they' would go so far, before long the limit will be 1K

    The banksters finally gaining total control over you and your money

    The only way to stop this insanity is for everyone to start paying over 10K bills to reg companies in cash, lets see if the courts can handle prosecuting tens of thousands for the privilege of spending their own hard earned ......................but I'm dreaming, most ppl/sheeple will do whatever is easier

    Bitcoin would have to be made illegal for this insanity to succeed ???

    I can see massive under-reporting $$ for reg business transactions or ppl/companies just going dark/darker

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    It's retarded...
    They just want our money where they can garnish it!

    I paid a Government Bill earlier this year with cash that was $18k
    The post office said I couldn't.
    So I paid half one day and half the next.
    I guess next time I'll just say I'm broke...
    Last edited by ol' boy; 01-09-19 at 04:31 PM.
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    Petition: Stop Scott Morrison from banning cash to trap Australians in banks!

    The Citizens Electoral Council has today launched a Change.org petition against Scott Morrison’s totalitarian ban on cash transactions over $10,000. The ban is contained in the draft Currency (Restrictions on the Use of Cash) Bill 2019, which is intended as a first step to a cashless society in which individuals will have no privacy in their financial affairs, and will be trapped in the private banking system.


    This is the next step:

    While Italy renounces ‘bail-in’, Australian government plans stronger laws to steal bank deposits

    It would be more accurate, however, to say “further” bail-in reforms, as the government snuck through a law in February 2018, the Financial Sector Legislation Amendment (Crisis Resolution Powers and Other Measures) Act 2018, to give APRA powers to bail in so-called hybrid securities, a.k.a. “bail-in bonds”. This is known as contractual bail-in. The law was so broadly worded, though, that the Citizens Electoral Council obtained legal advice which confirmed that it created a loophole that could be used to bail in deposits. And if there was any doubt, banking expert Martin North and economist John Adams proved that the banks are able to change the terms and conditions of their deposit accounts without notice, to potentially include bail-in terms, so that they can meet the definition of contractual bail-in.


    Once this legislation is passed, the government will have the power to allow an insolvent bank to "bail-in" your Term Deposits and Savings Accounts......and hand you, in return, some nice shiny new (worthless) Bank Shares......which you then hope, one day, will possibly be worth something approaching the value of the funds that were bailed-in (confiscated).

    And if you think that we will never have insolvent banks in Australia.....then I suggest that you keep a very close eye on the Australian housing market in particular, and the economy in general.

    The level of exposure of the Big 4 to the Australian housing market is more than enough to send them all out backwards if TSHF.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ol' boy View Post
    It's retarded...
    They just want our money where they can garnish it!

    I paid a Government Bill earlier this year with cash that was $18k
    The post office said I couldn't.
    So I paid half one day and half the next.
    I guess next time I'll just say I'm broke...
    The mind boggles mate.
    You had a bill from the Gov for 18k, Tax? fine? & you just happened to have that much cash on hand. Hmm?
    Telling the Gov you're broke doesn't work. They know everything except where you got & stored the cash. lol.
    Cheers, Tiny
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    Not allowed to do transactions without some form of identification, personal or otherwise?

    This sounds frighteningly familiar:

    Revelation 13, verses 16--18

    "16It caused everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free man and slave, to have a mark put on his right hand or his forehead, 17and no one was allowed to buy or sell unless he bore this beast's mark, either name or number. 18(This calls for skill ; let anyone who has intelligence work out the number of the beast, for the number represents a man's name, and the numerical value of its letters is six hundred and sixty-six.)"
    Last edited by irritant; 01-09-19 at 08:21 PM.
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    Killing Cash.
    Not a fvcking chance. Picture this... the government just stops printing it today.
    To quote Alice Cooper, "Welcome to my Nightmare"

    Shit will go to hell in a hand basket.
    Firstly the already morally bankrupt banks will be rolling in cash... or "cash-less". They will be holding all your worth, charging you for it with ongoing and rolling fees while profiting from the interest you never see.
    A smart politician will pick up on that fear and sell it on hire purchase like Paul Keating promising you the GST.

    What actual control the government did have will now be unregulated by the people. Bitcoin has already taken us down that road. But there are better players. GOLD is always as good as gold and just looking at the spot price over the past 3 months (let alone Palladium). Bullion will become cash of the future. Whether it be aluminium, copper, nickle, silver, gold, platinum, palladium. People will start minting their own coins and only the risk diluting the metals will slow them down.

    But the biggest boogeyman isn't the proletariat, it's other governments. China would be more than happy to have an Australian cash black market fueled by RMB.
    Ask Vladimir Putin how the US dollar worked out as Russia's main currency against the Ruble.
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    I mentioned purposely this cash ban in the 'Gold Coast is watching you' thread because this is all part of a bigger picture, but nobody noticed.

    I call the alleged 10's of billions lost in the cash economy is destroying our economy total utter BS.
    Our economy should have collapsed centuries ago if that were the case.
    For example if an employer pays a worker cash in the hand and does not declare it, then that expense is lost from their profit. Sure it happens on a small scale but whatever ScoMo thinks he can recuperate with this will not save his DOOMED economy mainly focussed on coal for his Chinese/Indian buddies who don't even pay tax and never ending privatisation to collect the last few bits left to fudge up the budget before the ship totally goes down.

    And too long has the incumbent government watched and milked on realestate becoming a speculative risk, which has created so many negative flow on effects to mention here but one of them is wealth created out of nothing, which always ends bad.

    For an economy to grow you actually need to produce/manufacture something and that is simply not happening in Australia(at least not large scale Australian owned) and I don't see any policies that encourage affordable manufacture with the never ending regulations, licences, insurances and fees that immediately suffocate any feeble attempts here.

    So all we have left are people in offices busy on computers watching and controlling other people who are watching and controlling them and thinking up more ways how to watch and control, that is basically the only productivity that is left.

    Yes this all about totalitarian control, which is not just a Turnbull/Scomo policy but becoming typical world wide. Europe is indeed ahead of us here. Europe is down to 1,000 Euros. Pretty sure at some stage actually owning this amount of 'physical' cash will be banned.

    Yes negative interest is the new methodic of our FIAT currency.
    Government debt is everywhere and what simpler way is there than magically make it vanish with negative interest rates, brilliant!
    ...well not so much for you and me. This does not mean that we can now go to bank and earn money for taking out for example a home loan.
    Only the big institutions will be able do that.

    Almost everybody in this country seems to be in debt because almost everybody has been conditioned to use a credit card.
    Ask any Snowflake about cash and it is: WTF... ewww!

    So it is the last proverbial 1% they want to hunt down who still persist and actually have cash and no debt.
    They must be all seen as criminals to be able to manage that, at least that is what out government and media is conditioning us to think.
    Just focus on the small fry so the big players have free roam.

    And you can run but not hide, private ownership of bullion Gold will be eventually banned too and holding Bitcoin means straight to jail.

    (Social)Credits will be all we will have, just like almost every SciFi show predicts.


    So to quote Darth Sidious: "Wipe them out. All of them."
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 01-09-19 at 10:11 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by trash View Post
    Picture this... the government just stops printing it today.
    No, they won't just stop printing it....they will slowly reduce the amount of cash that can be used per transaction over time....it's called "creeping normality"......do something slowly enough and nobody notices that it's happening. We may never actually reach "cashless"....but we will certainly move inextricably towards "less cash".

    Quote Originally Posted by trash View Post
    A smart politician will pick up on that fear and sell it on hire purchase like Paul Keating promising you the GST.
    Not likely....because a cashless society is the wet dream of every politician that walks the planet. Certainly any politician that is a member of a major party (and remember, we only have two of them) would be shown the door very quickly if they tried to set the cat among the pigeons. To the best of my knowledge, the only Australian politician that has indicated opposition to the proposed legislation is Pauline Hanson.

    Quote Originally Posted by trash View Post
    Bitcoin has already taken us down that road.
    Not going to get into a discussion about crypto's, because it's like arguing about climate change....you either believe, or you don't. Personally, I'm in the crypto non-believer camp for many, what I believe to be, good reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by trash View Post
    But there are better players. GOLD is always as good as gold and just looking at the spot price over the past 3 months (let alone Palladium). Bullion will become cash of the future. Whether it be aluminium, copper, nickle, silver, gold, platinum, palladium. People will start minting their own coins and only the risk diluting the metals will slow them down.
    Comments as above for cryptos.....you either believe, or you don't.......all those materials you listed are commodities, not currencies....and never will be currencies in the true sense of the word.
    As for people minting their own coins......are you talking about the people who can't change the tyre on their car, and have their meals prepared commercially and have them home delivered?

    Quote Originally Posted by trash View Post
    But the biggest boogeyman isn't the proletariat, it's other governments. China would be more than happy to have an Australian cash black market fueled by RMB.
    China is feverishly trying to stamp out black markets, not create them.

    Could these 5 countries be cash-free by 2020?

    Out of 20 of the world’s top economies, China has experienced the highest growth in cashless payments over the last five years. The vast majority of people use two systems, AliPay and WeChat Pay (built by Chinese giants, Alibaba and Tencent) and scan QR codes to pay for almost anything.


    China, of all countries, is motivated to get rid of cash........the elimination of cash and the centralising of all transactions electronically is music to the ears of a government that gets its rocks off on social control.

    Quote Originally Posted by trash View Post
    Ask Vladimir Putin how the US dollar worked out as Russia's main currency against the Ruble.
    Russia and china are still working to reduce their dependence on USD.........it's a difficult task given the reserve currency status of the greenback.

    Why China and Russia are struggling to abandon the US dollar and forge a yuan-rouble deal

    Russia and China plan to ditch the US dollar and switch to local currencies in international trade but yet another delay to a new system for yuan-rouble settlements shows just how complex it is to develop an alternative to the greenback.
    Russia, China and a number of other countries are aiming to cut their dependence on the US dollar, as Washington uses access to the dollar payment system as a weapon to punish nations and individuals for breaking US laws, even outside the United States.


    I'm afraid that the die is cast on the reduction/elimination of cash.......it's only a matter of how long, and which smoke and mirrors will be used.
    Last edited by Thala Dan; 01-09-19 at 10:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thala Dan View Post

    "Gold, bullion...."

    Comments as above for cryptos.....you either believe, or you don't.......all those materials you listed are commodities, not currencies....and never will be currencies in the true sense of the word.
    6000 years of history would disagree a bit with you there. Gold is the ultimate, everlasting currency.

    Bullion will become a big problem for the Dystopian governments when the private ownership of Gold drives prices to US$20,000/oz and more when people have their cash taken away.
    As in the past, it will have to be banned too.
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 01-09-19 at 10:57 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiny View Post
    The mind boggles mate.
    You had a bill from the Gov for 18k, Tax? fine? & you just happened to have that much cash on hand. Hmm?
    Telling the Gov you're broke doesn't work. They know everything except where you got & stored the cash. lol.
    Nar, just Council Rates
    Cash was money i'd taken out of the bank... What is to know?
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    18k for rates? ...you got 5 houses


    @Thala, currency is always a belief.
    People who know me locally are aware that I only accept Beer, craft or German, as a reward for my services.
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    Maybe a silly question guys, but if you've got gold or whatever stashed somewhere, aren't they just going to force you to exchange that for some electronic form of currency/payment anyways before you can do any transaction?

    Or are you guys talking about transactions nobody will know about?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    6000 years of history would disagree a bit with you there. Gold is the ultimate, everlasting currency.

    Bullion will become a big problem for the Dystopian governments when the private ownership of Gold drives prices to US$20,000/oz and more when people have their cash taken away.
    As in the past, it will have to be banned too.
    Gold has been used as currency in the past........there are many reasons why it would not be used as such in the future.....remember, it was the Gold Standard that contributed to the severity of the Great Depression, and that unfortunate event was the prime reason why the U.S. dropped the the dollar peg to gold.

    Governments don't really need to confiscate your gold to make it worthless.....they only need to refuse to accept gold as payment for duties, taxes, levies, rates, etc.

    See how long you can survive in a modern society if you can't pay your taxes and rates

    Peer-to-peer transactions would more likely be conducted under a barter system than the use of gold.

    But I think we are being diverted down the "total apocalypse" path here, rather than just discussing the reduction or discontinuation of cash in an economy.

    @Thala, currency is always a belief.
    Yes:



    The difference here is that one note is backed by the total resources of a nation and the productivity of its people.

    The other note is printed by a private company, and backed by..........

    Which one would you believe in most?

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    Well all you have to do is look when the Police knock on your door because your nephew is playing with a GEL BLASTER and a bitch neighbour next door looked over the fence and when you talk to the Police they see that on your lounge room coffee table you have $5000 or more and they immediately forget about the gel Blasters and want to know how when and why, where that money has come from. It seam today that to have cash you must be a crook.

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    $5000??? Does even buy lunch for the family these days?
    If u want to go on an expedition get a Land Rover, if u want to come home from an expedition get a Landcruiser!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ol' boy View Post
    $5000??? Does even buy lunch for the family these days?
    But I did go to Video Pro to buy a LG 86 inch tv with $13,800 in cash. The only trouble I had they took 35 minutes to add it up correctly as every time they added the 50's and a few 100's that got a different total so had to get the Manager to add it up and after this my wife had to add it up for then again as she worked in a bank. The Mistake I made I bunched them all together, I should put them in 100' s lots then put them in shoe Box. It show you ol' boy I might be stroke ridden but I can still add Money like any gipo can. LOL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ol' boy View Post
    $5000??? Does even buy lunch for the family these days?
    Fark, where are you eating. lol.
    Cheers, Tiny
    "You can lead a person to knowledge, but you can't make them think? If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
    The information is out there; you just have to let it in."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiny View Post
    Fark, what are you eating. lol.
    24-karat.



    Time to shit through a sieve from now on.
    Last edited by irritant; 02-09-19 at 09:04 PM.
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