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Thread: Plasmatronics PL60 - Goes up in smoke - Worth Repair..?

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    Default Plasmatronics PL60 - Goes up in smoke - Worth Repair..?

    Hi all,
    Not sure when this happened, but yesterday I went into the solar shed and smelt that electronic burnt smell...
    With my trips in there, its probably happened in the last 2-3 days.

    Uh-oh! I thought and then noticed that the LCD screen of the PL60 was gone... I looked over the top of the casing and saw black soot. Wiped my finger across the top and smelt the sooty residue and it was that electronic fried smell...

    SO:
    Looking at the photo of the blackened area and that exposed copper base - what the heck was there before? - there is certainly some burnt out components there...
    And for some reason, looks like liquid residue above it!

    Some mosfets? Those two at the top are certainly looking a bit well done on the crispy side!

    These PL60's are well made, but they have a lot of other functions (pump based timers, dual battery setups, etc), that I really don't need. I just need a controller that allows the amps to go in to 24v battery bank.

    I can get (I have one hooked up in parallel) a Jaycar 50amp controller for $350. I lose 10amps.

    So what do you guys/gals think?

    If I have sunny days (here in SEQ), it's starting to get cloudy as our summer/humidity months start, the Jaycar 50amp can handle the house's needs. But the PL60 handled most of the morning/afternoon sun, and the Jaycar 50amp didn't really cut in until late afternoon, as the sun went west. Or if after a few cloudy days, both would work in tandem - if that makes sense
    So today the Jaycar unit had its work cut out..!

    But if I have a go at repairing this PL60 - for all to see - I could end up going onto street/charging, pending the time it will take to repair this PL60.
    Or I can send it away to RPC.com.au where I bought it from and see what they say.

    Just rang RPC and I seem to have opened a can of worms!

    This can of worms is going to be a drawn out mental thing for me - Double Negative Switching - is where I have apparently gone wrong...

    First off, here are the photo's.







    I'll have to put some more info - as per the head tech at RPC - has told me that I was wrong, later in the post. Maybe tonight..

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    I bought the PL60 in 2009. So ten years old. Its never skipped a beat.
    The tech guy at rpc, told me I have been very lucky considering my (+60amps), cabling setup - and I would like to make quite clear that I have no malice in his replies and I respect his knowledge.

    He is saying that the SOL POS should go directly to the Battery and not the terminal - as shown on the reverse of the PL60's cover plate.

    He says that BATT POS and SOL POS are the same thing, and sure the connections show that - but I don't have the knowledge to know why.
    He says that I only need a 1Amp fuse on the Negative side...??

    All to do with Double Negative Pulsing..

    And page 25 of the user manual says how it should be cabled.
    I download the manual and didn't find a page 25 - but after my day It's probably my fault...

    My issue here (besides the printed PL60 cabling sticker - which he says is wrong - as the SOL POS should go to the battery POS), is that I said to him that sometimes (Winter/Summer), the height of the sun and with UV, the panels can produce more than 60A at a certain times.



    Aren't these controllers made to handle more than the rated specs (for a few hours as the sun traverses midday overhead)?
    He said no. He said you can only have a 'peak' 60A panel array.

    I replied to him that 'IF', I only had a 60A max panel setup (as the rated specs - full on summer, UV etc). In winter (lower angle, less UV), I'd be lucky to get be getting 30A at stages.
    He said "That's the way it is".

    It appears I have been very, very lucky to have got 10 years out of the PL60m with incorrect cabling and massive over AMPs...

    Should I buy a Jaycar 50A and replace the PL60?

    My panels (Two sets). The main house source can produce 'I guess as spec'd do more than 60A' - I assume in super peak summer high UV times! The second 'source' is a shed that the Jaycar 50A controller looks after, and I've seen 49A on the LCD display at 2:30pm.

    Both those controllers look after the E and N and the W sun, sharing the Watts/Amps.

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    The biggest problem you are going to have is getting all that smoke back into the circuits......... once the smoke gets out, you know it won't work any more.
    I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...

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    Be interesting to see a circuit diagram ... mosfet switching failure is one thing, but I'd be interested to know why those components on the daughter/display board also let the magic smoke out.

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    Your photographs indicate very extensive damage to PCB's and associated componentry.

    I wouldn't even think about attempting to repair something with that amount of damage.

    Replace it with a new or good, working s/h unit.

    You don't want to have to explain how your shed and house were burned down as the result of an attempted repair on your part.

    Having said that, I'm sure that that there several members here who will say, "Go on, 'ave a go mate".

    Well, for what it's worth, I've repaired many damaged/burned out power supplies and invertors over the years and would not touch something as bad as yours is, with the proverbial forty foot barge pole.

    Better to be safe than sorry.

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    That's what I'd call FUBAR and the only 'repair' to consider would be replacement new PCBs which probably cost as much or even more than a completely assembled, tested and guaranteed new unit.

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    Yeah guys,
    It does look well roasted. I think a new one is in order.

    Could someone please explain what the RPC tech said about 'Double Negative Switching', in regards to putting the SOL POS directly to the battery POS and then putting the fuse on the SOL NEG - which only requires [SIC] "Even a 1 amp fuse will do..."

    He was saying (I didn't catch it all as his accent was quite strong), that [SIC] "They are the same". I think he was referring to the SOL NEG and BAT POS being the same....!!

    And what's the Blue cable for?

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    Sounds like he's saying it's a 'common positive' system as opposed to 'common negative' to me but ask for detailed advice with schematics to clarify. Is it possible that the company originally provided bad advice with the unit that led to its failure? (thinking about compensation here

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    That is sad to see
    They are a rock solid unit and have been used by our Water Authority for years in the field.
    But yours looks cooked....

    Would be better options out now, its 8 year old tech now
    Last edited by ol' boy; 26-11-19 at 11:09 AM.
    If u want to go on an expedition get a Land Rover, if u want to come home from an expedition get a Landcruiser!

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    ..yep, quick squizzy on their website and it's a common+/switched- arrangement. You should get some sort of compensation if the installation instructions/markings on the unit can lead to people incorrectly connecting things ... but I know someone's going to say "a competent technician would stop, upon discovery of such an oversight, and contact the manufacturer for clarification"... rubs both ways, ends up in an argument, and you're still need a replacement. That board's toast, prolly the daughter board is too, time for a new one, vote with your wallet. If you can have a nice friendly banter with RPC and explain how the connection error (if any) occurred, and that some of that is their fault, and point out you need a new unit *anyway* that you -could- buy from anywhere else, perhaps you can negotiate a discount on a new unit if you (again) give them your custom. I think that's all you've really got to run with here, but often it actually works =)

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    If the instructions state to connect it incorrectly it's a clear case of negligence on their part and compensation would be in order.
    Just one thing....was it actually connected as per instructions ?

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    Ok.
    I got a PL80 - that's the 80 model - today. And cabled it up as per instructions and it all went fine...

    Loopy, I did cable up the old PL60 as per paper instructions.
    The cabling 'diagram' is even on the back of the aluminum case, of which I have posted the pic above. I have also followed the correct steps to connect the cables in the order, as in the manual.

    So as it is, I got the PL80 hooked up and even though it was about 3:30pm, once I set the parameters, it was all looking good and reading 23A as the sun was on its way West.

    I'm still confused about this 'Double Negative Switching' and that I could have a '1 amp fuse' to protect the PL60/80.
    I just don't have knowledge to understand what the tech guy at RPC was saying.

    Ok. Times moving on. Have to make tea.


    EDIT: I have took a few photo's of the board of the 80 and it's clear to see what has 'fried'... Way to much SMD stuff to get right and with that bronze/copper goo that is over the components (I assume it's a moisture thing), they are hard to read anyway.

    I'll post them tomorrow as FYI thing.
    Thanks everyone for your help. Really appreciated...

    GT250.
    Last edited by GT250; 26-11-19 at 06:49 PM.

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    Hi people,
    Here are the photo's of the PL80.

    They look VERY similar and the tech guy at RPC said "There is no difference, besides maybe beefed up components".

    Now, I think we all have been around the traps a few times and I'd dare say - that maybe - maybe - the PL60- and 8PL0- are the same... Call me cynical in my old age...LOL!


    PL80 showing the area where the PL60 burnt out.


    These Diodes are not on my fried PL60. My PL60 is nine yrs old.

    Q1) People: The PL60 has the Blue 'joiner' and the PL80 has a Green 'Joiner' - with diodes. What these for?

    INSURANCE CLAIM:
    NB: In March I had a lightning strike. It took out a PL40 (which was connected to the PL60), and my 5kW Inverter - and the house A/C and a fridge.
    The PL60 seemed to be dead and after a reconnect it seemed to work ok.

    When I purchased the PL60 from RPC 9 years ago, I noticed a 'humming' from it. I asked what it was. Apparently, it was 'cutting on/off' circuitry that controlled the excess Amps going in. So it was switching on/off very quickly.
    You guys know more about this than me!

    Can I say that I haven't heard this humming since March? I can't. Maybe I was just used to it and didn't notice.

    I know I'm clutching at straws... But is it possible that this lightning strike damaged the 'excess amps' circuitry, and as it was in March (low sun), the Amps didn't exceed the 60 and as we have moved into Nov/Dec (Sun higher, more Amps), the PL60 has taken its fair hit and has quite literally gone up in smoke?

    Just trying to rationalize, why both controllers got 'knocked out', and the inverter and the A/C and the fridge - yet the PL60, only fired back up after a full disconnect and reconnect. The other things were gone!

    The Insurers have said that they will accept the claim as long as RPC acknowledge that a lightning strike 'could/may' have done the damage in March, and it eventually failed in this Nov.

    If RPC agree, I'll get a PL80 from them (they no longer sell the PL60) - Which makes you wonder as I mentioned before, if they are the same unit... and replace the Jaycar 50A unit with it.

    Before I post: Would anyone have an idea as to these diodes why they are there - considering my PL60 is 9 years old and has none. If these diodes were in place on the PL60, would this damage have happened?

    All fun and games...
    GT250.

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    Tall order to swear that the strike was the guilty party ? but its certainly a probably a contributing factor as many diodes change there characteristics
    after a strike or static discharge and its impossible to say due to the time factor cannot be calculated and same goes for the change in the structure of the diodes yet this cannot be tested for a good/bad position . I have worked on some high powered fm amps with faulty mosfets but they wont power up to their ratings yet check out ok with the meter after careful dissection in removal of the top ceramics one can see the little fingers blown of some of the substrate bloody hard to see but definitely there so short of dismantling the diodes on the old unit to actually see it it is possible they are at fault , my opinion is that they are damaged due to the change in characteristics but phukt any way ?
    The march to November wont make any difference they were heading for failure but when is unknown . Hope this helps Don

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    That pic makes it clear that the positives are all at the same potential.
    The polarity of the diodes (if they are diodes) is not obvious but could be to prevent reverse current flow into the solar array from the battery. Just a big guess here as there's regulator/charge controller etc between solar -ve and battery -ve and the diodes look like an afterthought to improve stability under all conditions.

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    ...I think perhaps that's a pair of diacs, wonder what the green heatshrink is hiding...

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    Hi all, and thank you for your replies.

    The tech guy said that [SIC] "All the current goes through the Negative". He was referring to the SOL inputs.
    He said this as in his trying to explain to me that the SOL POS should go to the battery POS, as [SIC] "They are the same.."

    The cabling on the PL60/80 does have the

    I don't understand all this, as my blade switch that allows me to disconnect the PV POS gets warm when 60Amps has been going through it for a few hours.

    So I've got all confused over this Negative switching and 'no need to follow the cabling instructions' on the PL60/80...'

    As the PL60 has worked for many years cabled as per Plasmatronics own diagram, I've cabled up the PL80 the same way.

    I'm sure the tech guy is 'correct' as the SOL POS and BAT POS are physically connected in the PL60/80 - so they could actually go direct to the Batteries POS. So hence (think I'm getting it now - doh!), so the only cables that needs to goto the PL60 is the SOL and BAT NEG..?

    Man, getting confused now....!!!

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