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So The Australian PM is the ONLY person that can make a difference to the climate, even if it is just here in Oz?Originally Posted by RogerTheDoger
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No he has no chance without the cooperation of everywhere else, but he can start the change here by stopping approving new coal mines, he could also start closing down existing coal mines and opening lithium mines and opening battery manufacturing plants. These will both help solve the unemployment cause by closing coal mines and creating storage for solar farms.
Once he gets these lithium mines and battery plants profitable he can sell them off to replace the money invested in commencing the exercise, thus getting the budget balanced once again.
N0 it's not as simple as that, but a start has to be made somewhere, and those steps are in the right direction.
Uncle Fester (23-12-19)
While some of what you say is hard to follow even if one does play devils advocate, I certainly agree with this.
Even if one says OK, it is real, what we going to do about it, There are NO real world practical answers.
Ideas of unreliable energy generation even of 50% have been shot down everywhere they have been tried. The countries that went down that path with the exception of places like Norway that run on hydro are all backing out of it fast as they quietly can. The wind industry is in a flat spin at a greater rate than their turdbines ever went.
The idea of batteries to power the grid is Ludicrous, Pumped Hydro the current pet saviour of the green washed here is also completely impractical from the points of cost and the sheer number that would be required and the environmental impact they would cause. Of course the other thing is they are proposed to get their energy from Unreliables which consistently fail to deliver there much championed outputs. The beauty of coal fired plants is they keep the power up 24/7 wether it rains or snows or there is no wind for a month.
The energy density of batteries for heavy transport such as trucks, planes and ships is many decades away from even being conceived as being near that of liquid fuels ( and for god sake no one insult me with the " New technology is just around the corner crap!) and again, you have to make the power from somewhere.
As I have pointed out, people are not going to give up heating and cooling their Homes, they aren't going to ride pushbikes miles in pouring rain or blazing sun to go to work or drop the kids at school. They aren't going to give up their Iphoneys, xpoxes, new clothes every time they go out, over seas holidays, 80" tv's, cars, Bars and Nightclubs, shopping centres, fast food, meat and seafood at the very least and all the rest of the very many improvements in life style from even 10 years ago let alone peoples parents generation.
They want it all and they want it now and they DON'T want to give up one single thing.
The reductions screamed for are going to mean a total reversal of standards of Living, mass unemployment and a load of other things that are simply NOT going to happen. Thank your preferred Daiety for that!
As Mentioned, how many of the green advocates actually live up to the standards they preach? If they won't/ don't do it, how do they expect everyone else in the Neutral/ disbeliever camps to do what they won't?
Maybe some of the Green believers here could tell us what they have done on an individual / household level to live up to their green/ reduction beliefs and stated expectations of others?
THERE IS CHANGE HERE FFS! Do you not even know the basics of what you are harping about? Have you any clue of the reductions Australia has made? Do you realise we are exceeding emissions targets or do you like 99% of the green cult whingers just parrot the approved mantra without having a clue as to what the actually situation is?
Your claim of being a scientist seems hugely improbable to me.
Why would there be any logical reason for the PM of a country that emits less than 1% of emissions and is already exceeding their emissions targets to do anymore than they wer when countries like china and India are increasing their emissions every year more than our total output? Why do the gren goobers always piss and moan about Oz but never mention the worst offenders in their cause?
It would be laughable if it weren't so stupid and pathetic.
Sure, lets bust a gut catching the minnows we have to throw back while the 10 Kg barramundi swim right on by! Makes perfect logical sense. Next thing the green goobers will be telling Police to catch the people doing 2 Kmh over the limit and ignore the ones screaming by at 50 Over.
Exact same mentality the green washed are never ending harping about.
OMG!by stopping approving new coal mines, he could also start closing down existing coal mines and opening lithium mines and opening battery manufacturing plants. These will both help solve the unemployment cause by closing coal mines and creating storage for solar farms.
Have you ANY idea what so ever as to the amount of toxins and what a filthy operation lithium mining is? You profess to be concerned about the planet yet you want more lithium mining?
The other glaring flaw in your argument is it's not the Lithium anyone has to worry about to make modern batteries, it's Cobalt! That is relatively limited in supply and availability as well as deposits and again, is a filthy contaminating Toxic material to mine and process.
How can people that carry on with the green agenda not know these things?
Hang on, why would a PM be responsible for making Mines and battery plants Profitable? His job is to run the country not individual Business ventures. That's not the job of a prime minister, that's the Job of a company CEO! These mines would have to be run by private enterprise with the ( supposed) skill and experience to operate them just like every other mine out there now.Once he gets these lithium mines and battery plants profitable he can sell them off to replace the money invested in commencing the exercise, thus getting the budget balanced once again.
Your proposal is extremely flawed and poorly thought out to say the least.
Aside from that, what on earth makes you think after closing all the coal mines he or his gubbermint would still be in power to do anything and what makes you think that having being booted out on those policys, the opposition would go down the very same road and say they were going to do the same thing as their opponents?
The last election saw a whitewash in qld where the greens campaigned to close down coal and other mining. The greenwashed may want this but the everyday right thinking people have proven again and again the world over they are not falling for this BS.
So again, why start with the country that IS taking action, meeting its green fantasy objectives and is a tiny emitter when there are whales out there only getting bigger and fatter?N0 it's not as simple as that, but a start has to be made somewhere, and those steps are in the right direction.
Until something is realistically done to start reigning in and controlling the overpopulation and overexploitation of the planet by humans, any measures taken will soon be negated by the ever increasing population.
Politicians couldn't organise a f*ck in a brothel and only agree on something when it's in their best interest, they have no intention of even considering a change to the self destructive cycle of constant growth.
Anyone who thinks they're going to all-of-a-sudden join forces all over the world and work together to change something as significant as the climate is a fool...
If you had any idea what is REALLY going on, the World is craving for clean, environmentally safe mined Cobalt without child labor.
Australia can offer that !
Australian Mines Limited is currently the most advanced explorer and the Queensland state government is waking up to this, although it is yet to be seen if this is just 'talk' and no 'do'. Unfortunately it is stagnating because a large loan needs to provided for the processing plant as the battery industry needs the pure compounds not the ore.
Ask all our Prime Ministers who have been happy to fund the dodgy Indian Adani coal mine and subsidise our coal industry for decades.
In the case of coal this has NOT been just a matter for the private industry. An industry that earns shitloads but is allowed to be owned by multi nationals that pay little or no tax.
Last edited by Uncle Fester; 24-12-19 at 11:13 AM.
Update: A deletion of features that work well and ain't broke but are deemed outdated in order to add things that are up to date and broken.
Compatibility: A word soon to be deleted from our dictionaries as it is outdated.
Humans: Entities that are not only outdated but broken... AI-self-learning-update-error...terminate...terminate...
hinekadon (24-12-19)
So it's not happening and the process and toxic waste isn't going to be handled by children, it will be processed with Australian workers and we will have to deal with the waste while the world gets the nice, clean product. And they bitch about the damage coal does to the environment.....
And your point is?... We should repeat the same mistakes with lithuim Mines and add cobalt into the equation as dodgyrodger proposed?Ask all our Prime Ministers who have been happy to fund the dodgy Indian Adani coal mine and subsidise our coal industry for decades.
In the case of coal this has NOT been just a matter for the private industry. An industry that earns shitloads but is allowed to be owned by multi nationals that pay little or no tax.
In any case, still not the PM running these things and doesn't have the power to sell them off when they are profitable.
And what exactly is it the green screamers want? I thought they were against mining or is it just certain mining that fits their agendas at the time.
The can't even keep their story straight .
The post above has it correct though. The green obsessed can't even agree on targets and what they want to do as exemplified at the meeting they had the other week they all flew into and no doubt lived it up in the lap of luxury while they were there.
The news reports I saw said they sat there for days blowing sunshine up one another's fundamental orifice, Even wheeled out the patron Saint Grona Dumbturd and went off with their tail between their legs saying they couldn't reach an agreement.
They aren't going to do shit other than raise taxes and use this as a marketing tool in order to make more profits.
Just Fking annoying to have it rammed down your throat every day when you know it's a complete crock and believe it or not, they still won't ever have a solution to their self imagined problem.
There is nothing Different about the environment where I live today than there was a few days back. Today it's 23 Here, a few days back it was 40.
What made that difference was the sun and it always will be the determining factor.
If only you could not only understand maths but also read properly
"environmentally safe mined Cobalt means that it can be mined here safely.
The ore here contains far less Arsenic than in Kongo and therefore far less toxic waste and exposure risk.
Part of the high cost here for processing is required for the safety of the workers, where Congo/China doesn't give a fvck but they still have to deliver a very pure (clean) product, which has absolutely nothing to do how they mined and processed it.
Of course the "Green Washed" will waffle on about the toxicity of Cobalt without knowing the facts, just like you and therefore shouldn't approve of electric vehicles either.
I do NOT disagree with you about the behaviour of our so called Greens.
IMO they are narrow minded extremists.
Yet we need to deal carefully with changes that almost 8 Billion humans have done to our planet.
Update: A deletion of features that work well and ain't broke but are deemed outdated in order to add things that are up to date and broken.
Compatibility: A word soon to be deleted from our dictionaries as it is outdated.
Humans: Entities that are not only outdated but broken... AI-self-learning-update-error...terminate...terminate...
If only you could not only understand maths but also read properly
"environmentally safe mined Cobalt means that it can be mined here safely.
Oh I saw the warm and fuzzy catch words all right... and dismissed them for the over used hype and pacification they are. what isn't Safe and environmental friendly these days? It's just PR spin doctoring that means nothing.
I have ZERO confidence in big biz/ gubbermints doing anything properly and without cost and corner cutting that ALWAYS leads to huge fkups and problems which no matter how much exposed, are always underplayed as to the real seriousness of what they are.
The words are always wonderful, the reality is the complete opposite.
Of course the "Green Washed" will waffle on about the toxicity of Cobalt without knowing the facts, just like you and therefore shouldn't approve of electric vehicles either.
We can have clean and safe coal fired power stations as are being built in many parts of the world right now but try telling the green obsessed that and see how much they take the facts on board. It's always a one way street with this stuff isn't it? Believe every word I say, don't question any of it but we will ignore everything that does not fit the narrative of our green cult religion.
If the green inclined are happy Cobalt can be mined and PROCESSED in a method that emanates Unicorns and Rainbows, why the Fk can't they accept coal can be Burnt cleaner and with less emissions. Seems a lesser stretch than the cobalt/ Lithium mining belief.
Yes, I do get that and I appreciate like me you want to get to the truth not just win the argument which in the end is self defeating. I'm sure the green religion will find that out once they have backed themselves far enough down the hole.I do NOT disagree with you about the behaviour of our so called Greens.
IMO they are narrow minded extremists.
I see so many things now done in the name of being green and saving the environment when if you look just a little into them, it's very plain and clear to see they are actually worse than just doing the same old boring thing they disparage. EVs are one of those things that in the big picture break even in their cradle to grave emissions over FF cars.
I have recently seen articles and presentations that the world population is getting smaller. I find that Impossible to believe. Maybe the population of some 3rd world countries are declining because there simply isn't the food to go round to feed them or they have all migrated elsewhere but in the first world at least, not a hope in hell the numbers are going down.Yet we need to deal carefully with changes that almost 8 Billion humans have done to our planet.
I certainly think the growth model is a very dangerous thing that will come bite us in the arse sooner rather than later. It is illogical that anything can have growth into perpetuity. Those in power don't care. They are only worried about meeting the required numbers in the time they are in the game then once they make their money and are out, it's someone else's problem to clean up the mess and be the bad guy.
As far as the green cause, the only way to compensate for the emissions of more people is to take them back to the dark ages of living standards. That goes against the consumerism growth model so definitely won't happen.
Doesen't matter how much you reduce the individual outputs, if you keep increasing the numbers of individuals outputting it.....
The science doesn't matter, if you keep increasing the source of the problem the whole ideal is yet again on a single point, a complete farce.
Never happen, the save the planet lunatics would do their best to stop ANY new industry or mine, just like the alarmists nut-jobs that stop the development/building of the ONLY answer to the planets energy demands......nuclear !
george65 (24-12-19)
The
Fact of the matter is they oppose ANY new development or progress. They are even protesting their own position on things like wind farms now. One lot Champion Pumped Hydro as an RE solution for power yet the other side of the same group scream and protest every single site one is proposed.
We can't even go back to the stone age. They chuck a tanty about you picking up dead fire wood.
It's impossible for them or anyone else to meet their own agendas.
Well that's it. 2 days as a member looking forwarding to no political/ideological/right-wing/left-wing stupidity- gone. Bye all have fun raving about this bullshit.
Give a man a gun, he'll rob a bank. Give a man a bank, he'll rob the world.
Bye....enjoy your world.
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
bugger off then. and please dont bother crawling back here under some other username
If you're ever thinking about joining a forum, it always pays to read up on the more popular discussions before hand, to get a feel of the sentiment of the most prolific posters. What's the old saying? "Never judge a book by it's cover" Same goes with forum names.
lol the goose doesn't know you don't have to read them.
See ya mate and merry xmas.
enf (26-12-19)
Spoken like a true Lefty PC whiney Cupcake with tickets on their own non existent self importance.
Hope you find yourself a nice safe space in the cotton wool and unicorns section of the internet.
i am still sure we are getting scammed by her.
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
alpha0ne (26-12-19),eeprommemory (26-12-19),george65 (27-12-19),Keith (26-12-19)
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