Linux for ancient morons ?

[M-R]

You just boot from the media (remember the old days of DOS when you needed a boot disk) and away you go!

Give me a break ! - I only sorta remember.
Most everything, that refers to, alas !

I am going to read a message, have lunch and play with my teeny cat.

[Uncle Fester]

For someone coming from Windows Kubuntu is a good start and after using countless other Linux versions I still use it today with no frustration at all.
It's layout reminds a bit of Windows but without any of the annoying bits.

[lsemmens]

I am going to read a message, have lunch and play with my teeny cat.

Yeah! We got one of them, too. We could hear a noise coming from my shed, eventually found a small kitten hiding in a corner. SWMBO decided that it can live with us.........

[M-R]

Taken on board - with thanks !
All these damned distributions - but then, what choices, eh ?
There are so bloody many irritating things about Windows (lsemmons' reference to "windwoes" pretty accurate) that I shall DEFINITELY be glad to be away from it, whenever.

[M-R]

SWMBO decided that it can live with us.........

You mean, you can live with it.
Cats are subject to no man - nor woman!

[Uncle Fester]

You mean, you can live with it.
Cats are subject to no man - nor woman!

So true

[wotnot]

FWIW, I typically don't agree with the advice (although it's good advice in essence), that one 'goes it alone' with linux. That is to say, some (many) people just aren't technically minded enough to deal with (particularly) linux installation tasks & configurata. A lot of the time, they simply don't want to know, either - they just want to use the installed software, at which they may be quite adept, and most times they have no trouble adjusting to the way, for instance, that LibreOffice works compared to things like M$ Office suite. In fact, a lot of the time they find that 'adjustment' is a benefit.

In the same way many of the best race car drivers don't have a clue about rebuilding their car's engine and installing it, many of the best software users don't have a clue regarding the nuts&bolts of the computer they're using or how to install the OS it's running on ; people are different, intrinsically.

My own example, that is what works for me, is to just install Debian for folks ; they don't get a choice.

To clarify/qualify that, I live in a small country town & I've installed Debian for these people, because they've decided they've had enough of win10 (in particular), and want to go the linux/open source way. They don't want to know anything about the how/what/why I get Debian on their computers ~ they just need some basic tuition of how to use Debian after the installation is done. If you want another car analogy, if one wants to try a different brand of tyre, does that mean you have to learn about tyre fitting? No, you go to a trye shop and pay for that service, and once finished, get on with driving your car and finding out what the differences are between the new and old tyres.

It frustrates to think that (potential) adopters of linux all have to face the steep learning curve of installing and configuring linux, when ultimately they just want to use the software. I don't think that breeds the suggestion that moving to linux, is an 'easy' thing to do. Fact of the matter is, it *isn't* easy and nor is it fair on people...ie; when they bought their Windows PC, the OS is preinstalled. Some people cope with the concept of 'reinstall Windows' ; others have to pay for their local PC service shop to do it for them (or perhaps they have a family member or friend to do that for them). It is what it is.

What do *I* charge for this service? Cups of coffee, homemade bisuits/cakes..anything like this, but if money need be involved, then a $50 note is fine (regardless of time spent =) They don't get a choice of distro (many don't know there is a choice), but I do run through the various windows managers available (because) people are different and some prefer the 'feel' of KDE, others Gnome, others XFCE, others Cinnamon...whatever they like. As the effective root user for this dozen or more linux machines, it's easier for me to concentrate on & maintain 1 distro for all, and when it comes to an OS that just does not ever seem to break... Debian. There's not umpteen linux distro based on Debian without good reason. It means I don't have to do anything <grin>... install it, show them how to use it, walk away. Come back in a year or two for a dist-upgrade (quick job, time enough for coffee and cake again =), walk away. Wash, rinse, repeat.

If they get stuck with something or whatever, because I'm local to them, they just shoot me an email or SMS, and I can give them the (live) support they need ~ 15minutes of practical hands on demonstration, is worth more than hours of looking online for the answer. There is always coffee & cake =)

I would like to think I'm not alone in these regards. I would like to think there's a local linux users group near you, that you can gate-crash with an offer of coffee & nibblies for whoever will install linux for you and give a quick tute. Pepperoni pizza is also very good bait imho =) This isn't a business model, it's the best thing any proficient linux user can do, for someone wanting to adopt linux -- install it and set it up for them. As a disability pensioner, the way I figure it is every aussie is paying for my ongoing existence (via taxes), so I owe everyone around me something, and if I can install linux for them for next to nothing, that is equitable imho.

[lsemmens]

You are right, Wotnot, Most people just "want it to work". Linux, these days is pretty much an "out of the box" experience. Joe average, does not care or, need, to worry about the ins and outs of an operating system, let alone installing one. As long as it performs the task as intended. To use an analogy, There was a time when all you had was Holden or Ford, with a few others thrown in. Windows & Mac are the Holden and Ford of the Computer world. Problem is, the modern "Holdens and Fords" are way less reliable than those of last century. If you've been around for a few decades there were mumbles of "not that Jap Crap", guess what? They now own half the automotive world (not literally). We all know the problems that Windwoes brings, sadly, many people know no better, thinking the alternate is only a Mac which, in itself has its own issues. Offer them a Merc (Ubuntu) or a Jag (Debian) and they get confused. At the end of the day they all perform the same task.

[M-R]

I would like to think there's a local linux users group near you, that you can gate-crash with an offer of coffee & nibblies for whoever will install linux for you and give a quick tute. Pepperoni pizza is also very good bait imho =) This isn't a business model, it's the best thing any proficient linux user can do, for someone wanting to adopt linux -- install it and set it up for them. As a disability pensioner, the way I figure it is every aussie is paying for my ongoing existence (via taxes), so I owe everyone around me something, and if I can install linux for them for next to nothing, that is equitable imho.

HOW I wish I had someone like you nearby ! - or Leigh .. or Phil .. or hinekadon .. or any of the unceasingly helpful blokes who patrol these forums.
Alas, there are not only no Linux users in Geelong - at least, I haven't been able to find any - but only a user group in Melbourne. Melbourne is over an hour's drive from here; and I don't think that even scones with jam and clotted cream would entice anyone to pop down.
I have't even been able to find a reliable support person in this burg - just the usual scaly slime types who tell you they're giving you a pensioners' discount and provide a commensurate level of service.
No: Geelong is not a good place for groups of any kind: not even knitting or crochet.
No wonder I'm a bloody cave-dwelling recluse.

[M-R]

Offer them a Merc (Ubuntu) or a Jag (Debian) and they get confused. At the end of the day they all perform the same task.

At least I am not in the dark with regard to what I'm facing, thanks to you lot.
Of course I'd be MUCH happier if one of you would knock on my door; but as that can't happen I am determined to square the ancient shoulders, take a deep breath and .. to quote our very-much-lamented PM, give it a go.
(Wish I hadn't mentioned him.)

[wotnot]

Just for reference, these folks have a Geelong chapter ~ ...help may not be as far away as you think.

[M-R]

Just for reference, these folks have a Geelong chapter ~ ...help may not be as far away as you think.

A Geelong chapter ! BRILLIANT !
I have subscribed, even though not yet in a position to participate.
Leigh - you didn't respond when I asked you "Whaddya reckon ?" .. Oh, that was in the other thread. Sighh ..

[lsemmens]

That was the other thread.

[Uncle Fester]

I don't understand what the fuss is all about.

Installing Ubuntu or derivates is way simpler than baking a cake and a 1000 times easier than getting everything you actually want to work on Windows.
With a Linux distribution you not only get an operation system but pretty much all the software you need preinstalled for every day use.
There is almost zero installation effort unless you have very specific requirements.

Just go and select your flavour *cough* Kubuntu
Download it.
Burn a DVD from it or make a bootable USB.
Start your computer with it.
Try if it works, see if you can get connected and go online with Firefox, that is the only trap with some computers if the wifi hardware works or not.
Click the install icon.
The only time where you actually need to focus, is when it asks where you want to install it. I strongly suggest the side by side option, keep Windows and let it create a separate partition of free space of your hard drive. You will have a dual boot system.
That partition must be marked with / if you do that manually but I think you don't have to worry about that if you let it do that for you automatically.

Create a user name and password, select you time zone, allow it to connect to the internet(with your wifi password) and tick download third party add-ons/drivers, leave out updates and other languages if you want it to install a lot faster(you can get them later while you use it without any interference)
and then let it do it's thing.

Have tea and cake, play with the cat or go for a walk and maybe 20-30 minutes later you are staring at a new world of wonders to explore.

If you downloaded Kubuntu, click on the K thingy bottom left where you used to have the start button and you will soon feel quite at home
Play around with the things that are installed first and then when you feel really daring click on 'Discover' under 'System'

[wotnot]

That, is never going to work with a lots of my users...ie; 50 years old or more, don't know how to get into BIOS, don't want to know how to get into BIOS. My mother uses Debian, she's over 75yo. Expect her to do what you describe? Never going to happen B^) Folks like my mother (and others) will *never* get to use linux, unless someone could install it for them - that simple. Basically I'm just being considerate of what the OP has posted here, and what they've indicated their level of computer proficiency is ; no less, no more. One bloke I've installed linux for, is a retired mechanical engineer ; can/could he install linux? Not a chance, no clue at all -- can I work out the engineering designs he can do? Not a chance, no clue at all. People are different, we need be sensitive to this.

[M-R]

I don't understand what the fuss is all about.

Erhmm .. you know the conundrum for technical writers, mon oncle ? - it's to empty their minds of everything they know about [X] so as to be able to instruct readers how to do/make it without assuming they know one nano-fact already.
But you have managed pretty well !

[tristen]

I don't understand what the fuss is all about.

Installing Ubuntu or derivates is way simpler than baking a cake and a 1000 times easier than getting everything you actually want to work on Windows.
With a Linux distribution you not only get an operation system but pretty much all the software you need preinstalled for every day use.
There is almost zero installation effort unless you have very specific requirements.

Nomeat, I don't know what all the fuss is about either.

Members, although good intentioned, are finding problems which might never be encountered.

Installing any version of Ubuntu is delightfully simple, even for the novice.

The negativity expressed in the two threads exasperates me.

[M-R]

Members, although good intentioned, are finding problems which might never be encountered.
Installing any version of Ubuntu is delightfully simple, even for the novice.
The negativity expressed in the two threads exasperates me.

Hello tristen: do not be exasperated, I pray ! - none of what you see as negativity puts me off. It just makes me realise that this may not be a stroll in the park .. but on the other hand, it may be !
If I could just get a recommendation for an affordable laptop, I'd be already giving it a burl.
But on that fred I'm not finding any hard and fast "this is what you need, can afford and can actually lay your hands on"-type comments. Fair enough: no-one here is paid to be a laptop-finder !
It's just that I, as a non-techie old fart, am quite unable to know how to cope with that.

[lsemmens]

If I could just get a recommendation for an affordable laptop, I'd be already giving it a burl.
But on that fred I'm not finding any hard and fast "this is what you need, can afford and can actually lay your hands on"-type comments. Fair enough: no-one here is paid to be a laptop-finder !
It's just that I, as a non-techie old fart, am quite unable to know how to cope with that.

Therein lies the problem, it's not unlike the "What's the best car?" kind of question. Everyone has an opinion, and all are valid, but, it still may not be the best car for you. As a non-techie old fart, you are miles ahead of all the other non-techie old farts because, you are, at least, asking questions in the hope of getting some meaningful information.

Would that any of us were closer to you M-R, I'm sure that any one of us would be happy to take you shopping.

[Uncle Fester]

That, is never going to work with a lots of my users...ie; 50 years old or more, don't know how to get into BIOS, don't want to know how to get into BIOS. My mother uses Debian, she's over 75yo. Expect her to do what you describe? Never going to happen B^) Folks like my mother (and others) will *never* get to use linux, unless someone could install it for them - that simple. Basically I'm just being considerate of what the OP has posted here, and what they've indicated their level of computer proficiency is ; no less, no more. One bloke I've installed linux for, is a retired mechanical engineer ; can/could he install linux? Not a chance, no clue at all -- can I work out the engineering designs he can do? Not a chance, no clue at all. People are different, we need be sensitive to this.

Comparing installing Ubuntu to the complexity of the tasks of an engineer is a farce. No it is an insult!

I don't know about Debian but the objective of Ubuntu has always been made for the masses, for those who are not computer literate.
The Ubuntu website has all the information you need + there are Ubuntu forums.

If you really need to activate a boot drive in the BIOS there is plenty of information on the Net how to do access the BIOS simply from Windows, although keep hitting DEL or F2 button quickly after switching on the computer will usually get you there too.

Wotnot, what I find most disappointing about your attitude and I find this with many people this days, is the "NOT CAN DO, I NEED TO GET A SPECIALIST" approach to things.

As said following the instructions to install Ubuntu is not much more than following a recipe to bake a cake.

I am NOT a baker!
So when I first tried to make a cake it was dry and I stuffed up the icing, so what. I tried again.

Also took me 5 attempts to bake a halfway decent crusty rye sourdough bread.

We should encourage: I WILL TRY TO DO IT MYSELF attitude. Our world really needs more of that!

and sorry M-R age is no excuse either, I am an old moron too

Plenty of old laptops on Ebay, older is better as it is likely you don't need to get into the BIOS. Suggest anything from Dell as some were actually shipped with Linux.
There are some refurbished laptop sellers who might even install Ubuntu for you when you buy it. Contact them first.