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Thread: Coronavirus

  1. #1981
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    Quote Originally Posted by enf View Post
    You don't....

    And Berijec...li...however it's spelled...in NSW has proved that scaring people to death and shutting borders for a minor outbreak is unnecessary. Marshmallow is discovering that his previous stance was a selfish crock....
    Plenty of marshmallows in Australia. SA is locking people down for 6 days due to minor outbreak and considering further 8 days is a clear example of malfunctioning system. If they can't control 20 positive cases then what chances Australia as "united nation" has against this corona virus?
    "Staying apart keeps us together" is the stupidest slogan people ever came up with especially when you see no result. Some say - we have good result as we have 0 cases in Victoria. For how long I should ask we can have 0 cases? You can't be united when people are separated by these little dictators who spread fear to their little nations, Queenslanders hate Victorians and people from Sydney, now Victorians hate South Australians and it goes on and on. It's just makes my blood boil when I read and listen what some people say on the radio demanding border closures to SA. Fark No - demand governments to do the work properly controlling the outbreaks. Gladys proved it is possible to do so what is wrong with the rest of country?



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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    Covid-19 not only survived through the Northern hemisphere's summer but the new waves are evidence that it got a lot stronger despite formerly unseen large scale efforts trying to suppress it's propagation.

    We have now strains that incubate and can re-infect in as little as 24h !!!
    I even think Darwin would want to climb out of his grave and have a look at this.
    Number of cases is growing, more people get infected and data shows younger population is affected more comparing with the first wave in April. That doesn't mean the virus became stronger, it means it is mutating.
    Worldwide CFR data comparison between first and second waves clearly indicating less infected people are dying now than in April. This is what I call virus mutating to a wicker strain to preserve more hosts alive. The virus will not disappear, it is with us for good. Corona virus is not new at all, just current strain managed to find new hosts - humans.
    It should eventually become similar to seasonal flu - still dangerous for vulnerable people. The rest of the population will recover if they even get symptoms.
    If Darwin climbs out he would be glad to see the proof of his evolution theory. I do believe Darwin was right .

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    Quote Originally Posted by fromaron View Post
    Number of cases is growing, more people get infected and data shows younger population is affected more comparing with the first wave in April. That doesn't mean the virus became stronger, it means it is mutating.
    Worldwide CFR data comparison between first and second waves clearly indicating less infected people are dying now than in April. This is what I call virus mutating to a wicker strain to preserve more hosts alive. The virus will not disappear, it is with us for good. Corona virus is not new at all, just current strain managed to find new hosts - humans.
    It should eventually become similar to seasonal flu - still dangerous for vulnerable people. The rest of the population will recover if they even get symptoms.
    If Darwin climbs out he would be glad to see the proof of his evolution theory. I do believe Darwin was right .

    Jeez, can't you read?

    I said in my post #1965:
    Waiting is not a good thing because of mutations
    Evolution will just make it even stronger

    ...and you disagreed.

    Now you suddenly say yourself that it does mutate !
    How does an incubation time of 24h not mean it has become stronger?

    I suggest a crash course in
    As the virus doesn't have sex with each other the only way it evolves is though mutation and natural selection, AKA the strongest will survive.



    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 18-11-20 at 10:12 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fromaron View Post
    Again, the page says that COVID and flu are two different things and that proves my question - why do you need to have flu shot to protect against COVID?
    The page makes it clear that flu and COVID share similar symptoms.

    Reducing the transmission of flu through the community means less people in the community displaying those symptoms, and means a person displaying those symptoms is more likely to consider they have COVID and more likely to get tested/isolate.

    Reducing flu also reduces the strain on hospital networks and services that would normally be required for that virus, leaving these services available for other emergencies including COVID cases.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    Jeez, can't you read?

    I said in my post #1965:


    ...and you disagreed.

    Now you suddenly say yourself that it does mutate !
    How does an incubation time of 24h not mean it has become stronger?

    I suggest a crash course in
    As the virus doesn't have sex with each other the only way it evolves is though mutation and natural selection, AKA the strongest will survive.



    Fester, if you read my posts I always maintained the virus is mutating. But it doesn't mean it becomes stronger. You pointing 24hrs incubation period is sign of the stronger strain. Please define what do you call stronger? More people get infected doesn't mean the virus is stronger, it just means it evolve (mutated) to a strain which can infect faster and more people. I call virus stronger is when it increased ability to kill or cause serious health issues at higher rate.
    You and some others create more panic by saying - virus is mutating and affects more people. So what? CFR is dropping and this is the most important measure of the virus strength. I don't care if billions will go around me sneezing and losing sense of smell as long as they recover in 2 weeks. Did you collect information on number of flu cases previous years? Have you ever heard of people going to do CPR tests in thousands previously? I guess you don't have the data - if you have it please share.



    Also, fester - keep your crash course suggestion to yourself. Maybe you will accept the fact the virus evolution leads to the virus survival improvement. The only way to do it is to preserve the host. This is a natural evolution - stronger viruses that kill the host will die as well. Only the ones that keep the host alive can continue.
    Last edited by fromaron; 19-11-20 at 08:41 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peteramjet View Post

    Reducing flu also reduces the strain on hospital networks and services that would normally be required for that virus, leaving these services available for other emergencies including COVID cases.
    I see the logic in the point.

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    From an acquaintance in Adelaide (who just went back to work Monday);

    "Well, that blew up pretty quick !. Sent home 1300. Locked down for 6
    days. Driving home from work, people have gone PSYCHO on the roads.
    Had two near road rage incidents (in the car) and that was me keeping
    out of their way and avoiding conflict.
    "


    Meanwhile...here in Qld;

    Brisbane property prices forecast to rise by almost 10 per cent


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    Quote Originally Posted by fromaron View Post
    Fester, if you read my posts I always maintained the virus is mutating. But it doesn't mean it becomes stronger. You pointing 24hrs incubation period is sign of the stronger strain. Please define what do you call stronger? More people get infected doesn't mean the virus is stronger, it just means it evolve (mutated) to a strain which can infect faster and more people. I call virus stronger is when it increased ability to kill or cause serious health issues at higher rate.
    You and some others create more panic by saying - virus is mutating and affects more people. So what? CFR is dropping and this is the most important measure of the virus strength. I don't care if billions will go around me sneezing and losing sense of smell as long as they recover in 2 weeks. Did you collect information on number of flu cases previous years? Have you ever heard of people going to do CPR tests in thousands previously? I guess you don't have the data - if you have it please share.



    Also, fester - keep your crash course suggestion to yourself. Maybe you will accept the fact the virus evolution leads to the virus survival improvement. The only way to do it is to preserve the host. This is a natural evolution - stronger viruses that kill the host will die as well. Only the ones that keep the host alive can continue.
    You are contradicting yourself when you say a virus becomes stronger when it increases the ability to kill more hosts but needs the host alive to survive.
    That would mean it becomes weaker.
    Evolution is about survival, please DO READ a bit more how evolution works. Those who survive are the stronger ones !

    Covid-19 actually keeps about 98% of the hosts alive. In oder to evolve, strains that keep a low mortality rate(relatively speaking and shown in your link) will ensure it's survival while propagating faster greatly assists survival at least until possible environmental modifications come to play, like motivating humans to create vaccines faster than before.

    This virus CAN lately propagate in 24h or less as some claim, I haven't heard a flu virus being that fast
    So fast that the infected person often doesn't show symptoms, yet they can spread the virus simply by talking(Say it don't Spray it) a common activity in restaurants and bars and where masks are considered most annoying.
    All while no counter measures are taken, why should I get tested and self quarantine if I have no symptoms? The virus has now an open playing field.

    This is why the experts have recommended preventive measures and SA is doing a very good job, just like NZ did to respond extremely fast and nip it in the bud BEFORE it spreads like wildfire so they can be back in business in no time.

    How about you look at a country who's president plays down the virus just like you.
    Compare it's case numbers and deaths(per cap) to that of Australia and NZ.
    The only reason why VIC had to shut down so long was their very slow, baby step restrictions that led to far more suffering than what NZ had to endure.
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 19-11-20 at 10:47 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    You are contradicting yourself when you say a virus becomes stronger when it increases the ability to kill more hosts but needs the host alive to survive.
    That would mean it becomes weaker.
    Evolution is about survival, please DO READ a bit more how evolution works. Those who survive are the stronger ones !
    I am not contradicting myself. I contradict your logic. You define virus strength as it's ability to survive. I look at this from a different angle by defining virus strength as ability to harm people inadvertently.
    Current rate of survival is 98% with evolution taking its path I expect it will increase over time.

    If you use your logic then we are facing real prospects of constant economy shutdowns for a reducing benefits. If you use my logic you can learn how to adopt without taking drastic measures.

    Why do people point at US trying to compare what would happen if we take the same path is a mystery to myself as well. I do not agree with the way it is handled there.
    Why don't people compare with NSW? Measures are taken to prevent mass infections proportionate to the threat. And this is what I vote for. I am not sure why do you make assumptions that I am supporting US strategy - to me you sound like full of BS. Show me at least one post where I was advocating measures in US or apologize if you have guts.

    Victoria had the major outbreak not because they took small measures but because people responsible for the job didn't do it properly. SA shutting everything down is another example of panic attack. Sure, it will solve the problem but ask yourself at what cost? If 6 days "Stay at Home order" will deliver good results it will be great the question is can it be achieved if less drastic measures are taken?

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    Quote Originally Posted by fromaron View Post
    I am not sure why do you make assumptions that I am supporting US strategy - to me you sound like full of BS. Show me at least one post where I was advocating measures in US or apologize if you have guts.

    ?
    Well that marked in red is the perfect example !

    Your posts show that you disagree with lock downs, like this last one and and another example your post 1981.
    That is pretty much in tune with the current Whitehouse and Republican led states !

    So YOU can apologize if you have the guts.

    Those states like NY who did do lock downs are now being threatened by the Whitehouse not to receive the vaccine.
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 19-11-20 at 01:21 PM.
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    Fester, do you agree NSW strategy works?
    If yes then what happened to all harsh lockdowns, mandatory masks etc? How come NSW gets the pandemic under control without all those drastic measures? They have smart strategy and it works - restrictions are in place but not to the extend you believe are justifiable.
    My posts are all about draconian measures not being proportional to threat. Yes, I still believe lockdowns the way they were organized were too heavy handed measures.

    And again you assume I was against lockdowns full stop. That is your imagination, nothing else.
    Last edited by fromaron; 19-11-20 at 01:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fromaron View Post
    Fester, do you agree NSW strategy works?
    If yes then what happened to all harsh lockdowns, mandatory masks etc? How come NSW gets the pandemic under control without all those drastic measures? They have smart strategy and it works - restrictions are in place but not to the extend you believe are justifiable.
    My posts are all about draconian measures not being proportional to threat. Yes, I still believe lockdowns the way they were organized were too heavy handed measures.

    And again you assume I was against lockdowns full stop. That is your imagination, nothing else.
    Sorry but you must have a short memory.
    I live in NSW.
    The schools were shut down for about 2 months. Bars and restaurants were closed. Worked from home. We couldn't visit anybody, only got out for essential shopping and exercise.
    That was a HARD lockdown from Gladys and it worked !
    I was satisfied by her response.

    Since then we have been asked to wear masks and provide social distancing.
    This will change with all borders opening up and the Christmas holidays.

    SA's first class response should quickly get on top of an unlucky situation and then I am hoping the good weather and more strict quarantine measures in regards to the workers will protect us from further outbreaks from incoming overseas travellers.
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 19-11-20 at 02:28 PM.
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    The first wave when we had big numbers everywhere lockdowns were introduced in NSW and VIC to give results.

    Since then NSW managed to get on top of minor outbreaks here and there without shutting down the state. Focused approach was taken and that delivered results.
    As far as I can see NSW is the only state doing it this way. SA today with the minor outbreak and known source doesn't have to be locked completely. At the moment it is the harshest lockdown seen anywhere around the globe.
    COVID outbreaks will be happening all the time here and there and every time applying such drastic measures will be absolutely un-justifiable, especially when you look at the virus evolution path. You call it stronger virus and I call it weaker one but the result will be the same CFR will be dropping over the time so should the measures.

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    Top Pathologist Claims China virus is “The Greatest Hoax Ever Perpetrated on an Unsuspecting Public”


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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    ..............................

    SA's first class response should quickly get on top of an unlucky situation and then I am hoping the good weather and more strict quarantine measures in regards to the workers will protect us from further outbreaks from incoming overseas travellers.
    And all based on a lie which people and authorities were too quick to believe...embarrassing for Marshmallow, the responsible public sector, and a population terrified by the bogey man. Millions ripped from the economy, borders slammed shut by the cowards........................what a pathetic bunch we have become...



    Coronavirus South Australia: As lies go, the Woodville Pizza Bar worker’s was a triple-supremeDAVID PENBERTHYFollow @penbo
    A lie from a worker at the The Woodville Pizza Bar sparked South Australia’s six-day lockdown. Picture Matt Turner
    A lie from a worker at the The Woodville Pizza Bar sparked South Australia’s six-day lockdown. Picture Matt Turner

    8:24PM November 20, 2020
    588 Comments

    Lies, like pizzas, come in different sizes. Small, medium, large, family, and party.

    As far as lies go, this was a super-supreme, cheese-filled crust, party-sized extravaganza, cooked up by a selfish idiot who — after applying the pineapple — shoved its rough end square up the backside of the South Australian economy.

    All with the assistance of the state government, SA Health and the SA Police, acting collectively on the basis of what we know now was fraudulent information.

    That’s the scary thing about what has happened in SA over the past few days. It shows the speed and breadth with which governments and bureaucracies can up-end the lives of private individuals and the private sector, ostensibly for the greater good.
    And in a state that’s been regarded as an exemplar during the pandemic, the harsh reality is that months of sustained professionalism and calmness has been marred by three days of amateurism and panic over a so-called super-virus that many medicos don’t think was that super at all.

    Let’s stop and marvel at the impact this closure has had on South Australia over the past three days.
    Weddings and funerals cancelled. Elective surgery banned. The entire Schoolies celebration scrapped. Every pub and restaurant shut, their dumpsters heaving with spoiled perishables.
    Almost every business closed, students barred from attending school and university, supermarkets pillaged, bottle shops cleaned out.

    Vast traffic jams as unnerved residents queued for as long as 10 hours to have swabs jammed up their snouts at hastily expanded COVID-19 centres across the suburbs. More than 4000 South Aussies forced into quarantine.

    Millions and millions of dollars ripped from the economy.

    And all because this bloke lied about the fact that he was secretly working at a pizza bar — while also working as a kitchen hand at a medi-hotel — and claiming that he was merely a customer, thereby creating a baseless fear that he may have contracted the virus from a pizza box.
    And also because the government immediately acted on it with one of the most draconian lockdowns 2020 has seen.

    The man who told this lie is now public enemy No 1 in SA. But as the tragicomic nature of this lockdown passes, broader questions will be asked about the extent to which the authorities reacted to the apparent threat.

    These questions go to why the truth wasn’t discovered earlier and whether — even if the man had been telling the truth — such a harsh lockdown could be justified against the agreed national hotspot criteria.

    theaustralian.com.au3:27
    Premier ‘fuming’ over individual who ‘deliberately misled’ contact tracers
    South Australian Premier Steven Marshall is “fuming” about an individual that “deliberately misled” contact tracers who now have to hunt down a new group of people.

    The press conference held by Premier Steven Marshall and his Police Commissioner and Chief Medical Officer was easily one of the strangest things I have seen. Their fury was palpable as they awkwardly admitted that in hindsight the lockdown need not have happened at all.

    As of 12.45pm Friday, SA Police had deployed a squad car to the Woodville Road pizza bar and two officers were parked in it outside. I don’t think they were ordering a pizza, even though it’s safe to do so now, apparently.

    I don’t think anyone will be #ordering a pizza there any more though. As a wry message on the pizza bar’s Google review page on Friday afternoon read: “Incompetent staff. They forgot my garlic bread. They also put the whole state into lockdown.”

    For all the broader damage that has been brought by this madness, there is one business that will definitely never recover. This pizza bar is cooked.

    The political fallout could be a slower burn.
    Pizza Bar on Friday. Picture: Getty Images
    David Penberthy
    South Australia Correspondent
    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by enf View Post
    And all based on a lie which people and authorities were too quick to believe...embarrassing for Marshmallow
    How strong the tracers system is in SA if they failed to determine the place of work of that lying prick? That was a disgrace. I hope all states can learn from this experience so people can have more trust in the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fromaron View Post
    How strong the tracers system is in SA if they failed to determine the place of work of that lying prick? That was a disgrace. I hope all states can learn from this experience so people can have more trust in the future.
    Well they did trace it eventually. The chances are he was doing a few extra shifts, cash in hand, at the pizza place and didn't want to reveal that, however he did give a clue where he contracted the covid by saying he bought a pizza there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fromaron View Post
    Plenty of marshmallows in Australia. SA is locking people
    Another person that watches Paul Murray on Sky News.

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    Quote Originally Posted by enf View Post
    .embarrassing for Marshmallow,
    His real name is Steven Marshall not Marshmallow Comon more respect for the person that got rid of Covid in two days.

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