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    Quote Originally Posted by wotnot View Post
    I'm waiting for them to develop the anal suppository method of introducing the vaccine to the body -- I see there's a bunch of researchers looking at a nasal spray method of deployment.
    Rather get clots in my butt than in the brain from a nasal spray.
    As Covid effects mostly the lungs an inhaler version might sound sensible.
    Then again AZ lingers in your body for months so it probably doesn't matter where it is administered.
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 18-06-21 at 12:54 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wotnot View Post
    I'm waiting for them to develop the anal suppository method of introducing the vaccine to the body -- I see there's a bunch of researchers looking at a nasal spray method of deployment.
    hahaha, shelving the AZ eh?

    I had my first AZ shot lastnight, and feeling pretty good at the moment. Only a very slight muscle soreness at the injection site. I feel pretty comfortable with the odds of getting bloodclots. Certainly got more chance of being run over by a bus than getting bloodclots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    Rather get clots in my butt than in the brain from a nasal spray.
    As Covid effects mostly the lungs an inhaler version might sound sensible.
    Then again AZ lingers in your body for months so it probably doesn't matter where it is administered.
    Not really, the vaccine doesn't attack the virus. The vaccine causes your immune system to recognise and attack the virus, so the quickest way of getting it into your circulatory system would sound more logical. But maybe the intramuscular injection presents it to the lymphatic system more readily.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bob_m_54 View Post
    ...so the quickest way of getting it into your circulatory system would sound more logical. But maybe the intramuscular injection presents it to the lymphatic system more readily.
    Apart from IV-injection I cant see a faster way of getting it into the circulatory system than through the respiratory system.

    As said, Astrazenica lingers in your body for a relatively long period of time so apparently speed does not matter here.
    However the mRNA types break down very fast, so an inhaled version may be more efficient than intramuscular, at least from a logical point of view.

    That way lower doses might make more mRNA vaccinations possible per ml and help solve our lack of availability issues, which currently looks like a year before everybody can get fully vaccinated.
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    Ha, ha, ha .... and Barney said he is going to be a good boy now:



    Should have copped 10x the fine for being a bad role model
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    Ha, ha, ha .... and Barney said he is going to be a good boy now:



    Should have copped 10x the fine for being a bad role model
    Typical...watched some of MustGoverns press conference this morning...wiped his face with the back of his hand twice.....
    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    Apart from IV-injection I cant see a faster way of getting it into the circulatory system than through the respiratory system.

    As said, Astrazenica lingers in your body for a relatively long period of time so apparently speed does not matter here.
    However the mRNA types break down very fast, so an inhaled version may be more efficient than intramuscular, at least from a logical point of view.

    That way lower doses might make more mRNA vaccinations possible per ml and help solve our lack of availability issues, which currently looks like a year before everybody can get fully vaccinated.
    You should pass on that advice to the experts. They obviously don't know what they're doing..

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    Quote Originally Posted by bob_m_54 View Post
    You should pass on that advice to the experts. They obviously don't know what they're doing..
    Don't quite like the tone of your post.

    It was just an idea/suggestion following a logic that you proposed about getting it quickly into the circulatory system, NOT A CRITIC !

    If there is anything I DO want to criticise about our 'experts' was the lack of interest when suggestions where made last year for the provision of equipment to make mRNA vaccines here in Australia locally and the current total confusion about the vaccines, particularly who should take AZ and who not.
    My wife was at her GP today and when she asked, all he told her was to go to the next hospital and ask there.
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 02-07-21 at 04:21 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    Don't quite like the tone of your post.

    It was just an idea/suggestion following a logic that you proposed about getting it quickly into the circulatory system, NOT A CRITIC !

    If there is anything I DO want to criticise about our 'experts' was the lack of interest when suggestions where made last year for the provision of equipment to make mRNA vaccines here in Australia locally and the current total confusion about the vaccines, particularly who should take AZ and who not.
    My wife was at her GP today and when she asked, all he told her was to go to the next hospital and ask there.
    \_(ツ)_/

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    I guess we should've seen this coming;

    The Victorian government will spend $13.2 million to hire extra midwives as the state faces a post-lockdown baby boom.


    Health Minister Martin Foley on Friday announced the funds for 175 additional staff at 38 public health services across Victoria.

    He said an extra 1423 births are expected between April and August 2021, compared to the same period last year, with some health services in growth areas expecting up to 40 per cent more babies.

    "The pandemic has had a lasting impact across Australia, including an unexpected increase in birthing activity that is delivering a one-off surge in demand on our maternity services," Mr Foley said in a statement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wotnot View Post
    The Victorian government will spend $13.2 million to hire extra midwives as the state faces a post-lockdown baby boom.
    It's not because of a baby boom, it's because Victoria is having a midwife crisis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteOx View Post
    It's not because of a baby boom, it's because Victoria is having a midLife crisis.
    Fixed that for you!
    I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...

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    Watching 7 News tonight in Sydney.
    Strict laws applies from 7 a.m this morning people not wearing a mask @200.00 fines.
    News 51 people have be warned.What a joke.
    No wonder the virus spreads with this type of attitude.
    People don't care.

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    Just watched a view from a professor Zimmet of monash university hes saying that covid is exacerbated by diabetes and can cause long term diabetes as well and can evolve into a different virus that is not covered by the vax systems of now ??? not much hope for the world now

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    "A International Airport worker with COVID-19 was in the community and at work for three days while infectious.
    Authorities are racing to work out how the fully vaccinated Tarragindi woman, aged in her 40s, acquired the virus and whether she has contracted the highly infectious Delta strain.
    " [citing media reports]

    So just because you're vaccinated, doesn't mean jackshit?


    "A 12-year-old boy has also tested positive four days after flying to from Sydney on Friday July 9.


    He had just completed hotel quarantine in Sydney upon returning from overseas and authorities are working to determine if that is where he acquired the virus.


    His father has also tested positive." [citing media reports]

    And just because you've been quarantined, doesn't mean jackshit either?


    "If someone is unlucky to get Covid after having been vaccinated and you can still, in some cases, get Covid after you get vaccinated, even though your chances seem to be lower, it is likely you will experience a much milder disease." [citing health.gov.au]

    Oh, I see....the vaccine doesn't necessarily stop you from being (re)infected, it's just that if/when you do get (re)infected after being vaccinated, you don't have as bad symptoms and thus might be unaware you're infectious and spreading the virus... nice.

    "Data collected so far, indicates both the AZ & Pfizer vaccines have an efficacy of 60-70% at best, however the Moderna vaccine has shown an overall vaccine efficacy against symptomatic COVID-19 of 94.1 per cent, and 100 per cent efficacy against severe COVID-19. It has also shown strong protection of 90 per cent efficacy against COVID-19 for at least six months after the second dose." [citing health.gov.au]

    Cool...I'll choose door #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by wotnot View Post
    So just because you're vaccinated, doesn't mean jackshit?


    Oh, I see....the vaccine doesn't necessarily stop you from being (re)infected, it's just that if/when you do get (re)infected after being vaccinated, you don't have as bad symptoms and thus might be unaware you're infectious and spreading the virus... nice.

    "Data collected so far, indicates both the AZ & Pfizer vaccines have an efficacy of 60-70% at best, however the Moderna vaccine has shown an overall vaccine efficacy against symptomatic COVID-19 of 94.1 per cent, and 100 per cent efficacy against severe COVID-19. It has also shown strong protection of 90 per cent efficacy against COVID-19 for at least six months after the second dose." [citing health.gov.au]

    Cool...I'll choose door #3
    I mostly covered that with numerous posts in my other thread like this:


    It is about the difference between symptomatic protection and protection against being hospitalised and death.

    The lack of this understanding especially from our two Liberal 'expert' specialists called Scott Morrison and Glaydis Berejicklian, who want ALL of us to get Astrazenica with the two shots only 4 weeks apart and think that we will all be done with it, will lead to uncontrollable outbreaks of the latest variants Delta and likely soon Lambda if we simply follow this vaccination 'advice'.

    It beggars belief that it has taken so long to hold back the approval of Moderna in Australia, where elsewhere in the world it is being used with great success and no directly linked side effects as long as one considers the risks of ALL vaccines given to very frail patients.

    A very basic calculation is if a vaccine is 90% effective against SYMPTOMATIC infection and considering 20% non vaxxers, could we achieve herd immunity.
    Compulsory vaccination of all could work with 70% symptomatic efficacy but I think we can rule that out, although voting is compulsory here too.

    It looks like the double dose of any vaccine greatly reduces the risk of death, with exception of SinoVac where doctors mostly in Indonesia have died from Covid even after 2 doses.

    So my personal strategy after stifling through all this confusing mess, is protect yourself now with whatever is available and ASAP the second dose but follow up later with an mRNA type(if not already given) to achieve herd immunity, so we can avoid further mutations that will end up immune agains all vaccines. There also studies showing combinations of Astrazenica and Pfizer to be very successful.

    Still, if it is going to be 1 million shots a week we could be looking at April 2022 for the initial protection for all against death.
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 16-07-21 at 01:31 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    I mostly covered that with numerous posts in my other thread like this:


    It is about the difference between symptomatic protection and protection against being hospitalised and death.

    The lack of this understanding especially from our two Liberal 'expert' specialists called Scott Morrison and Glaydis Berejicklian who want ALL of us to get Astrazenica with the two shots only 4 weeks apart and think that we will all be done with it, will lead to uncontrollable outbreaks of the latest variants Delta and likely soon Lambda if we simply follow this vaccination 'advice'.

    It beggars belief that it has taken so long to hold back the approval of Moderna in Australia, where elsewhere in the world it is being used with great success and no directly linked side effects as long as one considers the risks of ALL vaccines given to very frail patients.

    A very basic calculation is if a vaccine is 90% effective against SYMPTOMATIC infection and considering 20% non vaxxers, could we achieve herd immunity.
    Compulsory vaccination of all could work with 70% symptomatic efficacy but I think we can rule that out, although voting is compulsory here.

    It looks like the double dose of any vaccine greatly reduces the risk of death, with exception of SinoVac where doctors mostly in Indonesia have died from Covid even after 2 doses.

    So my personal strategy after stifling through all this confusing mess, is protect yourself now with whatever is available and ASAP the second dose but follow up later with an mRNA type(if not already given) to achieve herd immunity, so we can avoid further mutations that will end up immune agains all vaccines. There also studies showing combinations of Astrazenica and Pfizer to be very successful.

    Still, if it is going to be 1 million shots a week we could be looking at April 2022 for the initial protection for all against death.

    Yeah, it's one of those things wherein you really have to wait for the numbers to roll in before the sample size is big enough to be 'meaningful'. Due to my own health condition (hepatic dysfunction). my specialist (hepatologist/virologist not GP) has been advising -not- to get the AZ or Pf vaccine, purely based on his experience suggesting these vaccines are/were 'stop gaps' and a truly high efficacy vaccine would emerge 'given time', and it would seem the Moderna vaccine bears out that reality.

    Wrt compulsory vaccination campaigns, going by the recent Greek & French people's reaction to such an idea, that starts to look like an alternative form of political suicide =) I mean, sure, one has to get mandatory immunization (vaccinated) against certain things before you travel internationally, but AFAIK the efficacy of those vaccines is greater than 90% with near negligible contradictions/side-effects. Then, right, considering national compulsory vaccination looks a whole lot different, if that was done with the Moderna vaccine just because it seems have have higher efficacy with near negligible contradictions/side-effects as well.

    I just hope, off into the future, that those already vaccinated with AZ/Pf products don't live to regret it, or don't become complacent and perhaps unknowingly turn into spreaders... and you gotta wonder what it's getting down to, when folks start hearing lines like "I'm sorry, the last vaccine shots we gave you don't work properly, so we have to vaccinate you again with a shot that does work" Why is it the mental picture in my mind shows two pharma companies floating in the clouds making money, on the sales of outmoded and less effective products? Maybe it's just me =)

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    I still fail to see what the problem is....we have next to no deaths comparatively and more people are being vaccinated. Most of the panic I see is here on this board. I'll place my faith in the federal medical team and the TGA to achieve the best overall result possible with the evidence they get on a daily basis.

    Nothing will be 100% effective against something that mutates so quickly....we are living the new normal thanks to the Chinese. As the premiers (cowards and traitors all IMO) further erode the cohesion of the country, I expect everything will be less certain if such a thing is possible....
    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by enf View Post
    I still fail to see what the problem is....we have next to no deaths comparatively and more people are being vaccinated. Most of the panic I see is here on this board. I'll place my faith in the federal medical team and the TGA to achieve the best overall result possible with the evidence they get on a daily basis.

    Nothing will be 100% effective against something that mutates so quickly....we are living the new normal thanks to the Chinese. As the premiers (cowards and traitors all IMO) further erode the cohesion of the country, I expect everything will be less certain if such a thing is possible....
    Agreed
    Cheers
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    Quote Originally Posted by enf View Post
    I still fail to see what the problem is....we have next to no deaths comparatively and more people are being vaccinated. Most of the panic I see is here on this board. I'll place my faith in the federal medical team and the TGA to achieve the best overall result possible with the evidence they get on a daily basis.

    Nothing will be 100% effective against something that mutates so quickly....we are living the new normal thanks to the Chinese. As the premiers (cowards and traitors all IMO) further erode the cohesion of the country, I expect everything will be less certain if such a thing is possible....
    Agreed too.

    However, the problem now is that we have been *too* effective in preventing the spread of the virus here to allow it to begin now.

    The UK, as a good example, is about to remove all restrictions completely - despite continuing to get 1000s of new infections and 100s of COVID deaths each week. To think doing the same in Australia would present different results is foolish.

    If Australians were suddenly provided with open state boarders, international travel and no lock downs, but had to deal with 100s of (what are) preventable deaths each month, the public would run riot.

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