The PBS system at work for aging aussies

[wotnot]

So I attend my appointment with the endocrinologist yesterday, to see what if anything could be done to address the discovery that my lower spine area displays a low bone mineral density count, or in other words, the onset of osteoporosis.

Now...I'm given a choice of 2 treatments -- an 'infusion' which lasts 1-2years, or oral tablets (4 tablets per month), and I choose the tablets. The specialist queries my choice ; I explain to her that, if for whatever reason I turn out to be one of those patients for whom taking this medication turns out to be contradictory, because all the known side-effects manifest themselves, then I can stop treatment immediately, and I don't believe I have that same safety margin with an infusion already injected into my body. She agrees, but then comes the crunch...

...the infusion is covered by the PBS and relatively cheap, whereas the tablets are *not* covered by the PBS -because- I'm not 70years old or more, and therefore don't qualify into the age group known to suffer from osteoporosis. The doctor had quoted me $9.90 for 4 tablets, but just now getting back from the chemist, I find out that's the PBS cost... the non-PBS cost is $39.50 for 4 tablets..ffs..

So I can't get the cheap treatment of my choice to help avoid to onset of chronic osteoporosis, until I'm 70 and suffering from chronic osteoporosis...??... oh, bravo powers-that-be, bravo. We should not be penalized like this, when offered a choice of treatments -- if both types of treatment work and achieve the same ends, they should be subsidized equally.

[DB44]

I'm waiting for some potentially life-changing medication to make the PBS, which it may mid-year. Meantime the drug company concered is happy to provide it at a discounted cost of about $19,000 a year. The PBS is far from perfect.

In your case I'd scrape the money together to try the tablets for a few months and see what side effects you suffer. Then you can change to the infusion if appropriate.

[wotnot]

Scrape would be the operative word, the chemist's remark of "who knows, maybe you'll die of something else before you're 70" sort of summed it up. I've only recently been cured of the particular strain of HCV (hepatitis C) I've been afflicted with since '79 or so ; in that case, kudos to the drug company that ran a clinic trial I was part of, of a test drug that didn't work, made matters a little worse, but to their credit once a cure was developed they shouted me the treatment course before the PBS picked it up ; that was 6 bottles of 30 tablets @ $24,000 per bottle. The cost of these specialized medications can be phenomenal -- that test drug trial was something like $150,000 per patient. It's an interesting setup...the drug companies don't have the resources to undertake field tests, and our local hospitals don't have the money/resources to develop their own drugs...so the hospital decides to take on the study criteria, supply the patients, do the sampling, and the drug companies 'sponsor' the hospitals activities and pay for everything...but I digress..

In my case here, it's time to have a pow-wow with my GP and put her into bat for me. You see... when all this PBS/non-PBS issue was being explained to me at the time, the specialist agreed the situation was moronic at best, so did the intern in the same room, so did the chemist ..all agreed it was stupid beyond belief, but in no way should I ever feel alone about this ; a lot of life saving/enabling 'specialized' drugs are in the same boat, as you put witness to. My GP will flip a pancake when she hears about this. Same thing will happen again with my hepatologist in March, he'll innocently ask me how have I been, and I'll start into a rant about the PBS being screwed up, what I'm facing resultant of the bone density study he ordered, and he'll have no problem understanding why I choose oral over injection due to his knowledge of 'how badly' it went for me on that drug trial, which turned into a race between eradicating the virus before the medication killed me instead..with me left holding the murder weapon =)

I feel for your dilemma, I know all too well what it's like ~ my condition/complaints are paltry compared to the plight of others I sit and chat with in hospital waiting rooms, we all bobbing on the ocean of bureaucratic indifference and stupidity, in a little tinny with oars.

[lsemmens]

I understand completely, I have no idea how much my wife's health has cost us. (She has been chronically ill for 30 odd years). Many of her meds are not on PBS, and those that are.....we have actually hit the "safety net" in February in the past. Our average Chemist Bill is a minimum of $100 a fortnight. She is in hospital as I type, (only 100km one way) The "incidental" costs (fuel, take aways, drinks etc) all add up, too. A day out to see a specialist, would cost us $50-60 in fuel and drinks easily.

[admin]

I have to pay $97 a month for something prescribed by an endocrinologist because my level was 8.8 and not 8.0. PBS only applies if your level is 8.0 and under.

If I had of known that, I could have made my level under that.

I wont even bother with the rest, similar to lsemmens, but more. My wife is also on one at around $100 a month non PBS. As to the rest, we usually hit the PBS safety net in late Feb , early March.

Lucky I get $45 a fortnight on the disability pension or I would be screwed

[hoe]

As I have mentioned before, have a look at all day chemist for online generics.

I have been using them for years with no problems at all.



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[bob_m_54]

It's about the only way I can get anything back from the system at all. Apparently I own too much shit, and am a self funded retiree. So I don't get any of the old fart pensioner perks. But to be honest, I hope I don't have to use that to get any returns from the Government.

FMD, the only thing I ever got back from them was a $2,000 First Home Buyers, back in 85?, and I think we may have got a baby bonus of about $100 back in 76, but I can't really remember back that far.

[LeroyPatrol]

4 tablets a month, that's $10/week. Still cheap really. Do as DB44 suggested and try for a few months to see if it will work for you.

[fandtm666]

As I have mentioned before, have a look at all day chemist for online generics.

I have been using them for years with no problems at all.



Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk

i can vouch for them aswell have used them and never an issue

[lsemmens]

Just "wasted" a half day. SWMBO was weaning off the meds to control her heart which means that she can come home. As I said 100k one way. I get there only to find that whilst I was travelling heart started playing up again. So, she had to go back on the drip. I'll probably have to repeat the process again tomorrow. The only plus was that I managed to get the groceries on my way home and petrol for $1.24/L when just about everywhere else it is $1.32. Fortunately our car is relatively cheap on fuel so the savings almost paid for the trip. (I average about 6.5L/100)

[wotnot]

Just "wasted" a half day. SWMBO was weaning off the meds to control her heart which means that she can come home. As I said 100k one way. I get there only to find that whilst I was travelling heart started playing up again. So, she had to go back on the drip. I'll probably have to repeat the process again tomorrow. The only plus was that I managed to get the groceries on my way home and petrol for $1.24/L when just about everywhere else it is $1.32. Fortunately our car is relatively cheap on fuel so the savings almost paid for the trip. (I average about 6.5L/100)

Bugger, that sucks, but I feel your pain and there's pertinent points you've raised here. Like yourself, it's 100kays one way to get to my hosp. appointments, but unlike yourself my car is 30years old, so it's more like 10L/100klm right off the bat. On top of that it's 30klms drive one way to the nearest town to get groceries and prescriptions filled. Sounds that, just like me, you try to organize as much as you can be done on the journey day, to maximize your petrol usage and time --- it's such a waste of both just to drive in and out for a one person shuttle service (not questioning love & devotion, just from a practical stand-point)

Plus we can remember Terry and the 4 Welshmen in a pub skit when I say "One dollar twenty four per litre for petrol!?? Luxury. I used to wake up every morning, and before I got up I'd have to fill the car with petrol that costs one dollar forty eight!" At least I didn't have to lick the road clean

When folks proffer advice such as my medication only costing $10/week pro-rata, that's all good and well...but perhaps their budget is more tolerant of the difference between $10/week (non-PBS), and $2.50/week (PBS), when the difference bites into what I have left over to budget for petrol. Plus I'm a bachelor which means the fortnightly visit from the government budgie isn't quite as big a dropping as what couple gets.

The true cost of me finding a way to afford this drug, means I would have to curtail my weekly trips into town, to offer company, friendship & solace to all those I see (voluntarily) at the nursing home in town. My daughter can't rely on me as much to help her out, because I won't have the money for petrol to get there. Please understand there are human costs here, not just fiscal squabblings.

What really smokes my ghee, is the word 'aged' ..how on earth could they bloody well classify a drug, based on a person's age...when that drug will work just as well as another, regardless of age? [I know the answer is $$$, so don't say it ;-] I mean, I'd understand it if the drug involved was more specifically used for a certain age group due to complications that may arise *because* of patient age...(and those drugs exist), but it is not the case here. In fact, the first story I want to track down, is something the chemist mentioned to me, about a couple he knows of with a 12yo needing some specialized medicine, and there are two treatments available to them as well ; the drug on the PBS cannot be prescribed to the kid, due to complications it would cause with other existing conditions, and the non-PBS drug which would also work, -can- be prescribed to the child but the cost cannot be afforded by the parents (who are looking at selling their family home to be able to afford it). Human costs, yeah? - the PBS isn't perfect, sure, but that's a tunnel visioned view until you discern and examine how imperfect the PBS system is, and how badly it's affecting some people... particularly the aged, but it would seem not only.

Taking the harden the fark up & deal with what's being offered attitude, is to me apathetic at best, or truly do as you're told domesticated at worst (no slight towards anyone of course, I did say 'to me' ) ; I think those sorts of attitudes are what leads to dysfunctional systems like the PBS being there in the first place, and further, merely allow that dysfunction to continue unabated, if only because not enough folks aren't putting their hand up to register complaint with how this public service is actually being administered. At the endocrinologist appt, at the chemist...what I was seeing in these people's eyes was heartbreak, in that their hands were tied, and they could not give me the medicine on offer to cure me, cheaply ; should one just accept what a system gone wrong is doing, when it's also affecting those professionals trying to cure you like this? I think not...

So far it has been suggested to me that I look at the list of all the medications covered by the PBS, and how many of those are no longer in general use, along with the numbers of prescriptions dispensed for each product. It is supposed to make for some fascinating reading ; GP appointment next week, see what facts she can dig up for me.

[lsemmens]

Finally got her this morning, all in all, a pretty uneventful trip.

[LeroyPatrol]

well it looks like you have a decision now. Curtail trips into town to save the $7.50/wk or have the op. I'd be looking at the med experiment first.

[george65]

Because I'm well away from any age pension benefits and can't get any other pension because I don't qualify because I worked when I could and don't have the arse out my pants,
My Diabetes and anxiety meds cost us over $240 a month.

I hear pensioners whinging about the cost of their prescriptions but they get a pension and I get jack shit and not too many I have come across pay near what I do.

Don't even get me started on the public health system atm. Came up here at 4 am the other morning after my father was put in the Butchershop they call a Hospital here. They fked him up well and truly without actually managing to attend to the reason he went in there. I worked out after he was in there 2 Days, No Fktard had even given him his regular heart and Epilepsy Meds. When I asked about them I was asked " what medications?" I blew a fuse to say the least. Turned out Dad gave them the list of meds he's on when he was seen to the first time. about 5 Doctors later, no one has bothered to see if an 81 yo is getting their regular meds. Not like he has never been there before ( last year) and they had no reason to ask him.

Got him out Wednesday far worse than he went in and that's no exaggeration. Been out a day and is far better than when I collected him. Least I can cook him decent food he can eat and make sure he is drinking enough.
I'll spend another few days to make sure he's up to speed ( and not going out in the heat or doing anything he shouldn't be) even though I have a shipload to do at home. Clearly he'd rather die on the floor than go back there and the day I spent with him in the place which damn near did my head in, makes me well understand his Position.

Medical services in the country are a complete and utter Joke.

I'm planing a rant about it here once I calm down enough not to have a freak out myself thinking about it.

Until now, I have been trying for years to get him to move closer to me. Had given up hope with his energetic protests about not wanting to go anywhere near Sydney.
Today he's asking me " Have you found me a house yet? " several times.
I said well you better come down with me and look at the area and make sure you'll be happy there.
His reply was "I'll be happy anywhere as long as I never go back to that place which I never will no matter how crook I get. "

[lsemmens]

Our experiences with the public system are completely the opposite. When living in Darwin, we had private cover, but there was little alternative as the "private" practitioners were also the public hospital doctors. You'd go to a specialist for a second opinion and the first thing he's do is ring the other specialist for his opinion. D'uh, we came to you because we already know what he thinks! When we "moved south" we could no longer afford private cover, so were locked into the public system. Very rarely do we see any issues, and we are "frequent flyers". We rock up at A&E at our "favourite" hospital and though they are often very busy we always get treated quickly and with dignity. The Specialists we see, although, referred from the public system, treat us as private patients and only ever charge Medicare. From reports we have heard, they are among the best in their field.

[george65]

I call the diabetes dept at my former local hospital " my life savers" because thats what they did when multiple other doctors had me thinking my time was up.

I have nothing but praise for them but my experience with the local hospital here could not be more opposite.

My father was just talking to someone that said he wasnt able to get onto him earlier in the week. Dad said i was in the hospital in town. Guy immeadiately said before anything else was mentioned, you are brave, you wouldnt catch me going in there if i was awake and still breathing!.

The sentiment of the local commounity gells very well with that of my own.

[DB44]

....... We rock up at A&E at our "favourite" hospital and though they are often very busy we always get treated quickly and with dignity. The Specialists we see, although, referred from the public system, treat us as private patients and only ever charge Medicare. From reports we have heard, they are among the best in their field.

I have no doubt about this. But there are enormous differences between public hospitals. Similar to Schools. You have to hope you live near a good one. I was in the local hospital a few years ago with an infection in my knee that required cleaning out. Others on the same ward needed similar procedures. The young resident doctor, who seemed very good, came in and went from patient to patient discussing the details and what he would be doing in their procedures. He started to do this with me but, when he realised I was a private patient, told me the specialist himself would be doing my procedure.

Likewise, a friend of mine does not believe in private health insurance but himself pays when his family need treatment. His father, unfortunately now deceased, needed an eye operation from a top ophthalmologist. This excellent and caring Doctor explained to my friend that as a public patient he would supervise the operation and monitor it carefully, but would not himself be doing it. My friend was in the fortunate position where he was able to choose to himself pay for the top surgeon to actually do the operation.

In many, probably most cases there is little or no advantage to being a private patient, either in potentially inferior treatment or in waiting times. However, everyone should be aware that this is not always the case.

[lsemmens]

Agreed, DB44, We bypass our local (country) hospital and one Larger Public hospital to go the our hospitals "of choice"

If I break a leg or similar, our local hospital can handle it, there is only one doctor and anything much beyond that is transferred to the nearest large hospital. If I took the boss in there with her heart, first thing they'd have to do is call the doctor in (could be 1/2 hour, or longer, wait) who would then set up an inter-hospital transfer, (another 1/2 to 3/4 hour wait for an ambulance) then a rough trip to the nearest large hospital which "might" be able to treat her, but I wouldn't want to risk it. I't actually quicker for me to load her in the car and drive for just over an hour to get her seen where we know the routine, and the staff. For her heart and cancer we go to one hospital, for her neuro, we go to another one, both public, and both very good. Of course, as with everywhere, too many people clogging up the system with a runny nose.