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Thread: New 24v Charger Won't Show AMPs on Second Controller

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    Default New 24v Charger Won't Show AMPs on Second Controller

    Hi all,

    Wow! Isn't this VB virus getting out of control...!?
    I have spent some time in the medical field - worked on Macquarie St (Sydney), for a many a year with people who will have your heart pumping in their hands, or putting probes into your open skulled brain, whilst talking about the 19th hole.
    I'd be here all day...!!

    Whilst we (the world was heading into a recession anyway), the press - IMO - has blown it all out of proportion. So the real financial impact is yet to come.
    Just bizarre with what is happening. However, it is what it is (nice cop out line...).

    And now, for something completely different

    As you all might know, my 24v charger blew up

    So I bought a new super dooper one. Not cheap (postage was $45 alone). No doubt you'll find it on FeeBay.
    [Should have bought that 80Amp Chinese one that comes with no English instructions at half the price..! LOL!]

    When here in SEQ, after days of very cloudy weather and the batts were 'really' getting depleted, I popped on this charger intending for it to be on for a few hours just to keep up a level though the evening dinner time (6-9pm). I intended to turn it off after 9 and hopefully the weather would improve the next day.

    Checking this new charger, after an hour, the Amps had gone to zero and nothing was going into the batts. And the unit was quite warm.
    So: Cutting a long story short with testing over the next few days; I found that there doesn't seem to be an internal fan, from visually looking inside, and NO, I'm not going to open it [yet!]

    But I gathered that it starts ok and as it gets warm it 'closes' down.

    When the batts were low at around 11:00am, around 25v, I decided to test the Amps:

    I connected the charger cables directly to the solar input bus blocks going into the PL80. And the Amp readings on the Hall effect meter and the PL80 registered the Amps that the new charger was showing.
    So: Solar Panels 30A, turn on Charger (say battery charger meter goes to 10A), the PL80 and the hall effect meter will show 40A.

    When I connected the charger to the Powertech MP3731 controller solar input bus blocks, the MP3731 didn't register the Amps, nor the Hall effect meter...

    Why?

    NB: The PL80 is connected to a totally separate PV cabling system (which is basically the house roof 15panels). The MP3731 is connected to the PV's on a shed which has 14 panels.

    Photo's show the A reading of both displays. So the PL80 would increment the Amps as the charger was turned on (as the hall effect meter).
    The MP3731's display on Amps would show no change, and no change on the hall effect meter.






    Anyway, hope all is well with you all. Just keep isolated as much as you can if you are prone to the Flu/Influenza or have pre existing medical respiratory conditions.

    Cheers,
    GT250.



Look Here ->
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    Ummm ... personal opinion only ; if the below review is actually correct, how about return to sender as being unfit for duty due to false advertising wrt the item description?

    NOT 40 Amp, more like 20 Amp at best!!

    The ammeter on this charger is wrong!! After purchasing another (matched) shunt and ammeter, we were able to prove this unit was only capable of outputting 15-20 Amps at best! Two seperate ammeters were used to confirm the low output. It appears either the face of the ammeter has been replaced with a higher reading face to make it look like a 40 Amp model, or a deliberate mismatch of shunt/meter to make it look like a higher reading on the dial. Even at only 12 Amp output, the unit overheats in under 10 minutes, and requires the cover to be removed and have a fan blow on it constantly to get any continuous use from it. The lugs connecting to the back of the switches are loose fitting, and one had come off in transit, requiring dismantling and repair before first use. This unit could suffice as a 10 Amp charger for a car battery perhaps, but is useless as a serious high power charger. It is NOT a smart 3 stage charger AT ALL!! It is a simple transformer/bridge rectifier. No filter capacitors, no control circuits. I figured for the price it wouldnt be a 3 stage (which I didnt require anyway), but I have seen it advertised as such, and it definitely is NOT!! Casing is robust and the only “good quality” part of it.


    For mine, that's seeming to correlate with your experience all too coincidentally identical?

    ref.

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    Hi wotnot,

    As per your link below, I purchased this charger from them. I paid $109 but only $45 postage - your link has $180 postage. But sure same seller.
    However, as the seller has 99.9% Positive feedback - and - the feedback for those chargers (Under the Quantity box, the ones I read at least)), seemed good.

    Please can you provide a link to that review saying it's not really a 40A.

    Thoughts: It is a heavy unit. Seems well made. Switches are positive. Cables were thicker than I have seen on other 'high power' gadgets.
    In all honesty I have seen the Ammeter go to the 40 briefly then wound down quickly (seconds), to the 20A ish mark. So it has 'moved' to that range.. If that makes sense.

    Your link review paragraph does mention overheating and (I assume, does indeed wind down).

    Obviously I will ask to return it (going to cost me the postage I guess), if your review paragraph has some teeth.


    Still though, I'm hoping anyone can throw some light as to why the MP3731 isn't displaying the Amps that the charger is sending out.

    Cheers,
    GT250.

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    I did provide a link, though you have to scroll down on that page to read it. Living in a small country town like I do, I see a lot of electrical/electronic equipment come to me for repair ~ not surprisingly, a lot of this gear has been made in China (and often gear like that isn't worth repairing =) To be clear, that's not my review para --- whenever I have a piece of gear hits my bench, and the brand-name means jackshyt to me, the very first thing I do is hit google and look for reviews...which is what I did above.

    The only comment I can think of on what you've done trying to check amps is I'd guess your PV output is 30A @ 100VDC+ or so, and the charger is 'x' Amps at 24v ...and you won't measure anything like that....I believe your testing procedure is in error...(and I'm not really sure what your charge controllers are going to do when they see an unfiltered DC supply throwing noise on the input ; PV power is pretty clean by comparison)

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    Fleabay is getting so full of crap that is over rated and just plain lied about it's beyond a joke.

    I'm coming across so much of it I'm taking advantage of it.
    Bought an SLA battery the other week, 12V 12 Ah. took it out the box ans straight away saw it was a 7ah with a sticker over the specs. Contacted seller and blew a fuse. They started with the usual " Can you take a photo and send it ?" crap. I said NO, you know bloody well what it is, you go take a photo of all the rest of the ones in your warehouse if you want.
    Tell me where to send it back at YOUR expense or I will be complaining to ebay and doing a review on my YT channel naming and shaming. I heard no more then I got a refund notice.
    Cool. so I waited a fortnight and ordered another. Price had gone up, a lot, so I thought I might get the 12 Ah but no, another 7 AH. complained again, another refund, now have 2 batterys which are coming in handy.

    Did the same thing with some LED lights. Not bad Lights in themselves, but I knew bloody well looking at the ad they weren't going to be 200W ea as stated 3 times in the ad and with " Free returns. Things arrived, onto a power meter, yep, 27W. Same thing, told them up front don't ask for the delaying tactic of a photo, I'm not jumping hoops, there is nothing wrong with them other than they are not what you said and you know it. This time I got the old thing about a partial refund and a sob story they don't make much money with postage etc and the annoying " Hope you understand" garbage. I said I want full refund or I'll leave neg feedback. They stalled and mucked around, I left neg feedback saying the lights were 27W not 200W, ripoff beware. Next thing is if we refund will you change Feedback? Yes. Got the refund so I changed the feedback and put " Refunded" at the end.

    They weren't happy and went on about me changing it to positive feedback. I said my feedback was honest and the experience and mucking around was not at all positive and I wanted what I paid for in the first place which I still haven't got.

    Did that with some other lights as well. Not what they said, I knew that when I bought them but got a refund so more free stuff. Got some SSR's that I knew were under rated but would do the job, Complained one blew which I knew from other reviews it would if run near rated output and got the money back on that. Other one was a solar controller which I knew was PWM and still a real good unit but was advertised as MPPT. That guy tried to be a smart arse till I mentioned I'd do a name and shame YT vid as well as contact Fleabay. He wanted to know my qualifications. I told him i'm an electrical engineer, what are your qualifications to dispute what I'm saying? Refund.

    If these crunts want to rip people off, then they can get a bit back far as I'm concerned. Even when they refund me in admittance the product is not what it says, they don't stop selling them so farkum. So far I have done this with about 6 things lately and got a refund every time. done it about 6 more times over the years but lately I'm looking at it as a sport.
    Going to be interesting to see how many times I can hit the same seller before they wake up.
    Mrs wanted to know the other day how come there were so many refunds on the CC. When I told her she asked if I could get a few things she wanted the same way? :0)

    Whatever you do, do NOT accept a part refund. Only lets them get away with their shit####ery. Tell them you want to send it back which I think costs them more or just creates too many problems and if they stall, leave a neg feedback. Takes that to motivate some of them. The only problem I see is that if you pay postage separately they may not refund that but I would push it. They will always try to stall and make it too hard but you just have to play hardball and they will fall over. At least all mine have. Aussie based sellers seem to the most easy to get money back out of so I try to find what I want with them. All Chinese con men anyway.

    Use words like Counterfeit and mis labled and tell them under Australian law the item was not fit for the purpose advertised and therefore illegal to be sold. Also complaints to fleabay about counterfeit and wrongly specified seems to ring bells. Counterfeits/ fakes are also good. Once you talk about that they get very helpful. Done a couple of those too. Again, not bad items, just not what they said.
    Fleabay does tend to look down on them so the sellers are pretty keen to bury it quick.

    I'm actually looking to buy stuff now I know isn't right because I know there is a real good chance I'll get it for nothing and it's not all bad.

    Now, I need some 18650 Batteries, where did I see those Bullshit 5 ah ones advertised? :0)

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    Aye, the marketplace is rife with it ~ really OT here and deserves it's own thread of discussion really...'how to handle ebay'.. =) I had one of these ebay seller run-ins just last week ; it's an interesting pickle for them right now (those seller based in China etc), because the concept of doing anything but refund (they can't send replacement) adds an extra angle...

    Anyhow, to add relevance here that's on topic which connects with this charger ...if you know how to handle ebay, you'll invariably have to do this one day -->

    YT is often a valuable resource for information before you buy (a/any specific item) from ebay of this nature.

    Edit: also stumbled across this, and if you just forget about the difference between CD-55 & CD-55r and presume the internals are similar/the same, what is exampled here is a more correct methodology for checking/testing the charger -- the fact is details an epic fail at so many levels, leads me back to my personal opinion above...stated -before- I found this YT clip =)

    Last edited by wotnot; 17-03-20 at 12:43 PM.

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    Hi wotnot,

    ok. The link you posted in #2 goes to the eBay selling site.

    I'm sorry I may have misunderstood you. I was asking for a link as you posted in #2 and refer to it in #4 'To be clear, that's not my review para..' This is the link (to this 'review para'), I was asking for.
    This CD-55 seems to be fairly regulated. Doesn't really drift that much, maybe 0.04v floating around +/-

    I have two PV supply's going in. One is off the main roof and I am getting 80A and the second supply about 40A.

    The PL80 has no problem 'seeing' the Amps from the CD-55 charger. It's the MP3731 that doesn't 'see' it.

    The other link provided shows a CD-55R - different model.
    Another link shows the CD-55, which is clearly not sending any charge into the battery.

    This/my charger is working.

    My OP is asking why the Amps don't show on the MP3731.

    many thanks for your help wotnot. If you can provide a link to that 'review para' that would be great.

    Cheers,
    GT250.
    Last edited by GT250; 17-03-20 at 06:49 PM.

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    Oh... I see now ; I was referring to the -same- review para =) As to why the PL80 does and the MP3731 doesn't...apols, I mis-read slightly...but different technologies for a start (PWM v MPPT) and the latter might be intolerant of the line noise the charger produces ...which it would, if that review is correct. As I say though, not really the way to judge/test the charger performance.

    You cannot say it's output is well regulated, if the charger does not include a regulation circuit ~ what you observed instead, was a steady charging rate, and that particular load balance. I -know- they're different models exampled, but the revised, later model CD-55R is supposed to have 'intelligent' regulated output (which clearly it doesn't), unlike the CD-55 you have. It used to be a thing years ago to go out and buy elcheapo battery chargers just for the case & transformer, and retrofit your own smart controller board to result in a fairly decent unit...at least the things wouldn't try to cook your battery to death.

    If I were actually looking to buy a charger like this, ...I'll just say, I wouldn't be here -anyway-, because this charger is utilizing a transformer, not a SMPS design, and a wire wound transformer to pull off 240vac to say 12/24vac @ 40amps (and be balanced into both 12v & 24v lead-acid batteries) costs more in itself than this entire unit. This means they have to cut cost on the transformer manufacture and you end up with shitty iron cores wound with shitty copper wire with shitty separator sheets and the things buzz & overheat and pffft!..no thanks...if there's any one place to cost cut, transformers are it.

    When I say your testing procedure is in error, I'm inferring you're measuring the wrong thing. You said "But I gathered that it starts ok and as it gets warm it 'closes' down." , and before that you indicated that this happened inside an hour of continuous usage. What you're actually looking at there, is a temperature governed duty cycle, and you haven't defined what that is. To do that, you have to sit there for that hour, and measure the time that it's ON (and how much current/power it delivers in that on time), then wait for it to thermally shut OFF due to overheat protection and measure how long it's doing nothing until it cools down and turn on again, and then you measure the ON time yet again, then the OFF time, wash, rinse, repeat for that hour.

    Once you have those data-points, you'll know your (rough) duty cycle..ie; in a 60min period it was on for 30min and off for 30min you've got a 50% duty cycle, and if you measured the power output in that time you'll know the effective max output/hour. You get that number and compare it against the theoretical amount of power a say 14amp charger will deliver at 100% duty cycle...truly continuous 14amp charge rate, and it turns out the 14amp charger delivers more power to the batteries in an hour, than the (alleged) 40amp charger can in an hour due to the fact it's off half of the time cooling down. Aside from the fact it's the worst, dirtiest trick in the world to use this thermal cycle to {ahem} 'regulate' a device, the transformers in these cheap chargers are so inefficient (this is where the heat is coming from), it often works out you'll get more into the batteries using a charger that can deliver 8amps continuous!

    I just abhor folks like yourself getting ripped off like this...from any seller in any marketplace. It is very much caveat emptor and the whole market place is run by a bunch of Ferengi ...that's about as close as I can get to an accurate analogy a lot of the time. You have to decide what you want to buy, check out the brand name, the reviews, figure out which reviews are BS and which aren't, perhaps use a forum like this (before you buy) asking "Is this worth buying?" and rely on the knowledgeable input of other more familiar this with kind of gear, what the traps are, what's BS and sensationalized by meaningless assertions & feature points... bla blabla blablah. I have to deal with it on a constant basis, I know I'm not alone...I see a lot of those camping/portable fridge/freezer units, they'll be branded ARB, ridgeryder, waeco, evacool, engel... all out of the same factory in China, all usually with the same fault, and the difference in brand name is $150+ for the part, or $90 for the unbranded generic part.

    I also hunch they play on buyers when it comes to item weight - the heavier it is, the higher the cost of postage/shipping etc..uh-huh? Just be aware of that angle.

    Just some sundry notes...these 'Rossmark' branded devices are imported/distributed in Australasia by the company 'Bargains Online' (there's a reassuring brand name =) by various resellers (Amazon, Kogan, ebay stores & others), both here and in NZ. If you follow the paper trail, these end up being sold in the EU under the 'Rohr' branding, and as best I can tell the brand name is 'Maypole' in the UK. No doubt they turn up in Canada & US markets under a different brand, but I cbf'd chasing that far. Why does this matter?..well, it's how to increase your review sample number...if you only look at say Australian reviews, your max possible sample is of our population of 24 million people ; if you can find the same (but rebranded) device in the UK or US, your sample number goes to 400million and you will find a lot more reviews about the same device. This is all part of their strategy - you use multiple branding names in different countries/locales to avoid a single brand name getting known the world over as a knockoff/piece of junk. They're also very adept at using language barriers ..for example, most aussie buyers won't find/read the bad reviews for the same device, marketed under a different name, in say Brazil or Spain =)

    I'll just fall back to my personal opinion reply again ; it was quicker... hahaha

    Edit: ooops! ...bottom of the label....that looks like a duty cycle statement...are my eyes working properly? Does that infer/say 3seconds on/120seconds off?...what the actual phuq .. rotfl
    Last edited by wotnot; 18-03-20 at 02:16 PM.

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    The duty cycle seems to apply only to jump start. 15/120

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reschs View Post
    The duty cycle seems to apply only to jump start. 15/120

    Ooh, thanks...I was wondering what the graphic was...



    ...I thought that was "when this product fails to work, please massage exhaust pipe like so while waiting for divine intervention'.... or "if your car belches black smoke like this" ... or "please levitate behind vehicle while in use"...

    ..250 cranking (starting) amps ..without a filter storage/capacitor...interesting... 6000watts out of a transformer wearing a 10amp mains fuse giving it a max rating of 2400watts ...another one of those magic woowoo filled transformers (EEVBlog).. I wonder if AvE has come across this pearl at his local Harbor Freight...

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    Quote Originally Posted by wotnot View Post
    Ooh, thanks...I was wondering what the graphic was...



    ...I thought that was "when this product fails to work, please massage exhaust pipe like so while waiting for divine intervention'.... or "if your car belches black smoke like this" ... or "please levitate behind vehicle while in use"...

    ..250 cranking (starting) amps ..without a filter storage/capacitor...interesting... 6000watts out of a transformer wearing a 10amp mains fuse giving it a max rating of 2400watts ...another one of those magic woowoo filled transformers (EEVBlog).. I wonder if AvE has come across this pearl at his local Harbor Freight...
    Thanks for the better view of the label. I see my on time was wrong.
    The quoted starting current infers it relies a very large capacitor storage bank. That would make it plausible.
    Without lifting the lid, we will only guess.

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    I had to scout about for a better image...they've used the typical swap back/foreground colours on the label between the old (CD-55) and newer (CD-55R) models ; same rating on both of course.

    Umm... haha...we can math out the capacitor value?... i know, I know...I'm laughing hysterically inside at the thought, because whatever that value turns out to be, I've got to fathom how it would need a 120second off time, to recover from a 3second pulse!...whilst being able to deliver 40amps at the rated voltage..or 60amps..or 75amps...depending on which of their advertising spiels you happen to read...what's the equation...you'd have to get 250A @ 24V over 3seconds ..take that to joules, and extrapolate using the energy stored in a capacitor formula...?... something like that...wow, Farads eh? That 3second duration is tough...maybe a lipo pack instead? It's still a steep discharge rate, either way.

    Indeed, I've been biting my lip on that...GT250 is on a limited window, if he's going to return it, sooner the better, and I don't want him getting stitched up over a warranty claim 'coz he removed the lid - now you've said it, I'll start biting something else.

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    Be interesting to see if they offer a partial or a full refund if he wants to return it.
    I can always use a new power supply and could get that to something decent if I could buy one and then get a refund on the thing because it's not fit for Purpose and falsely advertised.

    Going to be exy to return at their cost so they might let him keep it and do a full refund if he pushes hard enough. Hope he does because I sure would.

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    It'll be interesting to see if they've stitched him up with the postage, that's often a ploy with bulky/heavy items. If that happens, you have to figure out it's actual worth.

    The transformers in them are really poor...I see that glint in your eye =) Just be aware of that...they're the sort of transformer you mount on a fine polished piece of walnut, to stick in your shame cabinet on the 'worst transformers I've seen in my life' shelf ; I am not joking.

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    The LiPo pack makes the most sense.
    Once borrowed a similar device from a mechanic nearby to jump start my van.
    Was a hell of a lot bigger and needed to be plugged in.

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    Hi all,
    Many thanks for the replies.

    I have emailed the seller as he has requested a video of the 'issue'.

    Please note that the videos don't show it cutting out or winding down.
    But show me turning it on and then the second video after about 10minutes it has shut down.

    The unit would not turn back on until about 15 minutes after.

    I've told the seller that if he has other replacements that don't overheat, I'll accept one and I'll post back this one when he provides me a pre paid return label.
    Or if he knows that they 'all' overheat due to a lack of fan, I want a full refund and a pre paid return label.

    NB: Date and time in the title name.


    Turn on.


    After 10minutes.

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    You should add in the comments of the Video where you brought it from and are trying to return it and will let Viewers know if they accept it or rip you off with the thing.

    $10 Says they come back with some BS about too many batteries or it's only meant for occasional use or..... some typical irrelevant crap to try and make it your fault.
    Asking if you are a qualified electrician would be another likely one. If they ask tell them yes and ask them to get their electrical engineer to email you and provide his licence Number so you can verify what he says.

    The return Label was a great touch!

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    Quote Originally Posted by george65 View Post
    $10 Says they come back with some BS about too many batteries or it's only meant for occasional use or..... some typical irrelevant crap to try and make it your fault.
    Yep, got it in one there ~ rule of thumb ---- Do NOT show them what YOU are doing with the unit : DO show them it fails doing what THEY think it should do. Here, that's one battery failing to be charged properly by one charger.

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