Dealing with *some* Ebay sellers!

[lsemmens]

I don't know why I am reading this thread as I never seem to encounter your issues on evilBay. However, I do not often purchase "suspect" items. i.e. a Sawblade is still a sawblade.
So far, I've not had any issues. However, I do find your running commentaries entertaining, so, please continue.

[george65]

After doing some homework on some different lights I decided to get serious and throw caution to the wind and order them in Qty without seeing them.

I do hope they are OK, They may not like getting a refund request on some items not fit for purpose to the value of $750. :0)
If by some terrible turn of events they aren't legally saleable Merchandise, I might let them keep $4 each and I'll have them repaired and certified accordingly.

Got my solar controller which, Imagine my surprise, when I just happened to see the same one on about 8 YT Vids all showing it up to NOT be MPPT at all but merely a Programmable PWM!
That's a VERY long way from the way they were described and surely a breach of ebay Policy.
I'll contact the seller and see what amends they would like to make?

[wotnot]

I don't know why I am reading this thread as I never seem to encounter your issues on evilBay. However, I do not often purchase "suspect" items. i.e. a Sawblade is still a sawblade.
So far, I've not had any issues. However, I do find your running commentaries entertaining, so, please continue.

That's the spirit, as I keep stressing, it is all a game.

I'm sort of in that mode where I'm well aware some folks question the ethics & morality of this sort of game, but even when you're offering them a cheap and amicable solution, multiple times, they still won't choose that option...oh, there are exceptions, like with those LED matrixs I bought. That's how it's supposed to work...really... I'm to -expect- they will try to rip me off ; I will write back to them "hey, you ripped me off, but I'll keep it if you refund half ; they might haggle or not, but eventually a deal is struck. There is no dishonor or shame or blame or anything like that in these exchanges, it's the way they do business. The exceptional cases are usually when you are dealing one on one with a seller.

In this situation with the kit, that's not the case ~ I'm dealing with an employee at best...probably more than one at the same time, in a big electronic email call center type thang. Often, any partial refund is totally ignored, because to accept that, would be akin to admitting blame or guilty of the complaint. When it's one on one, the human at the other end, will grab the offer & negotiate on that ; here with the kit seller, any employee who would agree to the partial refund offer, will have failed at their job. It is not actually a decision they can make, they would need ask their supervisor. In so doing, they demonstrate they can't do their tele-ebay-email-marketing as good as they should. In some ways, me offering the solution of partial refund, can be seen as a weakness on my part, in consideration that any ensuing ebay battle is going to be something I most very likely will win. Perhaps not the person(s) you're exchanging messages with, but -someone- at that end is as much aware of this, as I am. Never underestimate your opponent. (that is funny, see below somewhere)

I could write fiction, but this is better. When you start seeing things with ebay that defies all logic, you have to report it like this, so as to appreciate the scope of it -- we, the buyers...are not people, or individuals or mums & dads or whatever, not in their business model, we are merely numbers, targets their market research indicates, will buy a particular item at such and such a price, with a particular sales method/model...what doesn't sell via teevee turns up in ebay and surfaces in cheap shops.

The topic emphasis on *some* ebay sellers, in no way at all reflects on -all- ebay sellers ; that's a given. I found some nice NOS PU bricks on ebay, asked about postage cost, both he & I then found out about the impression he had about postage was wrong, and he changed the listing to include a cheaper postage option not only for me, but everyone else who buys more than one of the things. How do you deal with an ebay seller like that? Applause springs to mind, did it all on his own volition, I didn't even have to ask if he could find a cheaper way to ship the things.

The ebay sellers we buy from, are deliberately ripping folks off all over the world. Not that it matters what I or anyone else does, ultimately it makes no difference. That's -why- it's a game. Ol'mate PM'd me a link a day or two back, about what I thought of some driveway lights, and what would be the situation if upon receiving said lights, they weren't compliant with AS electrical certs/regulations. I decided to show him how I check out an/any item, to establish it's 'heritage' if you will... I found it was an older model he was looking at, so focused on a newer design, and found the entire planet has stock of these lights =) I don't recall now..did I find the $165 lights he was looking at for near $110 or something..?...meh, can't be bothered with 'sent' (double handling =)

Back to real time...that seller I hosed in pre-sale about the 80W lights?...never got back to me, items now 'sold out'. Never got back to me..ignorance I tell you, ignorance...has normal reflex response...put you on next month's to-do list...hose them again on an item they've got lotsa stock of...he could've emailed me back with 'I am sorry, we sold out of that item'...too cheap to even try that BS on... I'm unimpressed.

[george65]

Sent my solar Controller seller a message about the fake MPPT controller.....

Hello there,

Thank you for sending my solar controller I ordered yesterday. I hooked it up to my solar panel and battery today and Immediately discovered something odd.... It pulled the panel down to the battery Voltage instead of tracking the panels Vmp which confused me. I am an electrical engineer and work a lot on this type of thing only on a much bigger scale so I didn't know what was going on.
I decided to look up youtube as the instructions were so small I could not even read them with my new glasses .
Imagine my surprise and disbelief when I found not one but a number of Videos on the controller just like you sold me that said these were fake! That adds up with exactly what I saw myself. This is in fact a PWM controller NOT an MPPT like described in your listing. Here are some links to the videos so you can see it yourself.




Here is a Picture of the controller you sent me as I know you will want one for your warehouse to confirm what they sent me.

This is definitely NOT an MPPT controller as you described in your listing. It is in fact a much cheaper PWM model. As such this violates ebay Policys regarding goods not as described and also Australian Consumer law and I am very disappointed this item is not as you described and not fit for the purpose for which I bought it. Please let me know how you would like to rectify this problem. I can return it to you but you will have to forward me petrol Money to take it back to the post office or have a Courier collect it from my home. I live 19 Km from the post office so at the current travel rate of .67 C per KM, that will be $25.46. Please let me know ASAP how we can resolve this issue as I'm sure we don't need to get ebay involved and can work something out. Thanks.

Damn I'm getting good at this 2000 Character scripting! Wrote the message, corrected my grammatical and spelling mistakes ( almost) and Bingo, 2K Characters.
In this one I'm going for a one shot resolution. Given them heaps of evidence the thing is fake, Included a picture ( from their own listing) told them the cost to send it back to the PO and invited them to send a Courier to collect it instead. All of which will put them behind the 8 Ball. Only thing left is for THEM to suggest I keep the thing and they refund it or a part refund..... Which they may or may not do.

As they say in sales, " Give the customer all the information they need to make the purchase" . In this case I have given them all the information and direction to make the refund. Lets see if they can add 2 + 2 and come up with 4 or they use fleabay arithmetic and come up with 5... or 7?

and he changed the listing to include a cheaper postage option not only for me, but everyone else who buys more than one of the things.

When I thought about it, I was so happy with the price of the things I didn't even worry about the fair cost of shipping. I think those things will be heavy anyway.

Again, as some seem to have comprehension difficulties with what we are doing, the honest sellers are Kryoptonite to us. There honesty shuts us out completely. It is only the DISHONEST sellers contravening Consumer law and fleabag policy that we can call them out on. We can claim our legal right to Refund and if it just so happens that them getting the item back is going to cost them more at the end of the day than it's worth and we get to keep it, well I guess the problem is solved isn't it?

I have yet to see any seller we have called out so far, some now multiple times, learn their lesson though. Maybe we are still playing Tiddly winks. Lets see what happens when they get for a $750 refund if the things are not as they should be. Maybe they will and I'll have a nice set of lights. If not, then after I get a refund and repair the lights, I'll have a nice set of lights. :0) In honesty, looking at the size of the scam they are running, I doubt they will change anything . Might be bit of sting in the tail but they will probably write it off to cost of doing crooked business and that's it.

I'm still seeing those 200/6W lights everywhere. Day before yesterday I got a fleabag promotional email telling me get in quick, they are running out. I got my money back on those after the hardest fight so far but those things are so rubb9ish I'm not interested in any more even for free! I rather pay for the 20W lights than those useless things.

I found some power inverters I can use. I have been stung on those years ago so I know exactly what to look for now. I see some sellers are still making Completely BS claims in their headlines but protecting their arses in the fine print. Others however must not have had the complaints from buyers that know what they should be getting and are still playing the " Add a zero to the end" game. Some of them have taken it a step further and added an extra zero on top of that.

Hey, if one extra zero works well, then 2 are going to work even better right?
Ummm, not when I come along it won't!

Think If I'm going to play this game, I'll get serious and start ordering Multiples.

I'm bound to come unstuck sooner or later and actually get something that lives up to the description and IS what I paid for!

[wotnot]

I do hope they are OK, They may not like getting a refund request on some items not fit for purpose to the value of $750. :0)
If by some terrible turn of events they aren't legally saleable Merchandise, I might let them keep $4 each and I'll have them repaired and certified accordingly.

Brave man, brave man... at least I detect you've done the appropriate reading =)

It is also a very good aspect you focus light on too - it's one thing to false advertise 12/24v LED lights and you end up with half of what you expected -- it's another thing altogether to sell -mains- powered items without proper certifications and you end up dead and in the ground because the ELB wasn't quick enough =) Mains stuff out of china is (or can be in *some* seller's cases) a huge nightmare...kill your device, zap you or someone else.

Think If I'm going to play this game, I'll get serious and start ordering Multiples.

I'm bound to come unstuck sooner or later and actually get something that lives up to the description and IS what I paid for!

An important message from our sponsor, is that it's easy to stand out in a crowd. Again, I can't speak for others, but for myself, I don't *just* target, these targeting sellers. If I did that, it'd soon become the case that out of 500 buys, something like 467 of them were buys I requested return/refund on. If you think that sounds psychotic, you'd be right...I'd bet on it having happened/is happening right now. Our favourite 21w/48w led light seller, may have sold one of those light sets per month, over the past 3 months, and then inside 3 weeks they see 4 purchases where the buyer calls them for full refund/not as described. You don't need to be smart to pick that out, it's so obvious.

You still have to be, a legitimate buyer. What's my average annual ebay purchase rate for the last dozen years?..about 35 items a year. How many have I had to play this game with?.. 5 ~ 10%...?...yeah, somewhere in there. It kind of matters exactly what it is you're buying, some goods are more prone to this sort of thing that others.

There's some sort of underlying daft logic, that if you buy 'x' amount of things, from 'y' ebay sellers, you're going to find...on average.. 'z' shonky ones you bitch about. You need not speculate this with say electronic devices. If you buy a 10,000 unit lot of say 8" android tablets out of china, the fact that 5% are going to be DOA by the time they reach the customer, has already been factored in ; the seller is already expecting returns...uh-oh...OH NO!!...

*Breaking News*

That's right, you read about it here first on austech forum -- Johnny drank his milk! The naked wooden spoon, is a fearsome form of intimidation - not only do they sting, but they sound like they sting, and they make such a loud slapping sound, everyone within half a kilometer hears how much that must sting. Ebay..use a gabel, it's a bit of a blunt instrument in my book by comparison.

But holy snapping arseholes batman, sometimes the incredible -does- happen.... even though it lacks all sorts of sensible credibility ;



Clearly, we have achieved full enlightenment. As I suggested, there's someone in the background somewhere, who knows exactly where I'm going with this, and the age old 'play it again sam' move try tried, I just deflected by turning them back to previous messages.

Long term exponents of this game, will already have keenly noticed the words/wording used in that reply as being coincidentally and uncannily similar to something they received from a seller in the past..yes? =)

Didn't someone bet me a tenna on this play?... 5GBP is AUD9.68 and I was only aiming for 7bucks...and I got that archive, plus the kit.... I win \o/

Haha...of course, they seem anxious for a reply... obviously this crazy aussie player... I mean, buyer ...has mastered the much feared drop-bear technique, and they know that I know I don't need to remind them I haven't started the ebay sponsored process yet, because I know that they know I probably know they will get electronic missile marked 'ARRRGH' when that happens...and they know I know this, because I haven't actually started an ebay claim yet. Where was I...reply button..



Use the apostrophe sparingly, it can easily insult. That's really the end of this little real life ebay exchange, I'll get my refund, they'll get they feedback, and we're left with just a few side plots to clear up.

Now, I can assemble the kit as a present to give to my kleindotcher, as it's no longer needed for the role of 'Exhibit A'

The YT videos remain up, but I'll edit the plant to suggest folks buy the 'right' kit from this seller...then pester them for the file...fair's fair....

I'll do another vid tomorrow, detailing exactly how different the other PCB for this kit is, same which I received. This is me symbolically showing them what would have been part of my ebay return presentation. That'll make the YT stuff a trilogy.

Once that is so, I'll launch the banggood question answering spree, send this seller links to the YT videos, hope to do bidness with you again.


Three times now - buy items, find them to be unsuitable for purpose and/or not as described but still useful, twice been able to negotiate partial refund/no returns, and once no negotiating required or possible - full refund/no return because of some imaginary partner. I mean to say...shit, it's hard enough putting up with a partner who makes mistakes all the time in real life, how many fries short of a happy meal do you have to be to run your business around an imaginary one?

As it's all been amicable and very civilized and outside the ebay return process, both I and the seller keep our buyer/seller ratings intact, status quo, fair play, no penalties.

Racing incident, as you were, carry on...

[george65]

Brave man, brave man... at least I detect you've done the appropriate reading =)

Well, yes and no. They were something we did want and it was only sparky mate giving me the heads up to be careful and check that got the 2V light in my head to flicker Dimly. I didn't actually think of them in the terms we are of other things here but it applies just as much if not more for the reasons you point out. One thing to not get what you pay for, another thing to get something potentially dangerous, uncertified and that should not be sold in the first place.

If the things turn up and have the proper certification, Not like I'll be stuck with them. They are something we have been talking about doing for some time. If they aren't up to scratch, then mate has the required licences To re wire them and give me a certificate of compliance. Apparently the re wiring is neither difficult nor expensive. Pre made sockets and cable sets are available so it's really just a matter of R&R. He said you order and replace them and I can easy check them over and that is it.

As usual, I'll wire them in, he'll come and check it, ask my why did you do it that way for?, no need to go to all that trouble, and turn it on. As usual I won't give a damn. I'll be content that the 10 Min and $5 extra I spent means nothing will catch on fire and I will sleep well. ... Or at least as badly as I normally do.
Anyway, on the basis of it, they are a legit purchase so whether a dispute arises or not, the only difference is I'm more edmucated now on what to look for and how to make up for fleabag scams where in the past where I have got screwed over. Bit of compensation in my eyes.

If I did that, it'd soon become the case that out of 500 buys, something like 467 of them were buys I requested return/refund on.

I get your point.

I'm still buying lots of things I need through Fleabay and leaving the positive feedback where it is mainly Due. I got a couple of components this week which turned out to be wrong. Not their wrong, Mine. Got one yesterday and soon as I looked at them said that's not right. Went back and looked at what I ordered but got that. Put it down to a bit of trick photography making them look different but anyway, my bad luck., Still have to compare them to existing parts but I'm not going to quibble a few bucks. See if I can use them on something else.


I wasn't thinking of ordering tens of things, ( except one batch of 10 48/80/21W lights as they sell them in lots of 10) just 2 rather than one. Give me a spare/ Backup the dodgy goods.
Also I have 3 accounts I can spread this over so will also blend things in a Bit. As long as fleabay don't get involved, do the returns show up on ones " Record" anyway?

Been patiently waiting for a heap of stuff to arrive this week. All I have so far is the solar controller and some Components I ordered months ago. -Should- I hope, get a load of lights today. Otherwise they will be getting a 1 star for delivery. :0) This is another potential Stuff you to the customer we have uncovered. These are legit purchases no different to any other but they are all late so far and we have a good idea why. Nothing to do with China flue, other local stuff Myself and daughter have been buying is turning up quite promptly. I am thinking that all the late delivery due to China flu is a cover up to hold your money without sending the goods. They might make . 03 C extra that way which of course is a fortune in Chinese seller terms.

I was wondering last night about giving pos Feedback but still saying these things aren't what they seem. I was pondering how many people read the good feedback? I rarely do, just go straight to the neg. I surmise many don't even do that, just look at the over all rating. Giving pos feedback in that case would be misleading to others so perhaps my present position of say nothing where good is not due is best?

I am thinking when my other stuff does arrive, just to leave it and set up an Unboxing and testing Video. Just have a battery and meters sitting there, pull it out the box after showing the label and test it on camera to remove any ambiguity of what it is, where it came from and why it's Fuc.... And is not as described.

[wotnot]

I was wondering last night about giving pos Feedback but still saying these things aren't what they seem. I was pondering how many people read the good feedback? I rarely do, just go straight to the neg. I surmise many don't even do that, just look at the over all rating. Giving pos feedback in that case would be misleading to others so perhaps my present position of say nothing where good is not due is best?

The feedback system on ebay is a joke at best, or some sort of confidence scam at worst. One thing for sure, it's about as useful as tits on a bull ...it's sort of become some sort of ascii/emoji type playground, with everyone trying to beat each other at the art of making an 80char string look like something FANTASTIC.

This seller has been a bit odd about feedback....you get this just after purchase - PLEASE DO NOT LEAVE NON-POSITIVE FEEDBACK OR OPEN CASE BEFORE CONTACTING US. THANKS ...but then through the entire exchange with them, not a mention of feedback. That's why I mentioned it and threw it back at them.

We know it's useless (what can you fit in an 80char string?), as you point out it seems hardly anyone reads it anyhow, as I pointed out a lot of the positive feedback is reciprocal feedback from other sellers buying from sellers, so to the buyer the feedback system has a perceived value/worth that isn't there. As a matter of fact, as far as I can tell, the *only* function the feedback system offers, to as negative feedback given to a 'bad' seller, but even then they can ask for that feedback to be overturned/reversed.

That happens, because buyers leave negative feedback, without establishing the case it's deserved negative feedback. For instance, if I were to leave negative feedback on this kit thing, that could/would be reversed. Whenever I do leave negative feedback, the exchange of messages with the seller, proves that negative feedback is deserved, and ebay won't reverse it. The only time feedback matters, is when it's negative... end of story.

Oh my, the phone just beeped...awesome, trip to town later, another set of alleged 48W lights have arrived ~ testing with multimeters this time.

[george65]

Got a canned response from my solar controller seller:


Dear Custmer,

Glad to receive your email which has submitted to our Customer Service Team.

We will follow up your message within 24 working hours.
Please wait with patience.

If you have any suggestions or questions , please feel free to contact our customer service,we will try our best to solve for you.

If you have no question, please ignore this automatical message.Thank you very much for your greatest supports.

We look forward to cooperating with you next time.

Appreciate your understanding.
Custmer Service Team



At least this is a bit more original than others, spelling mistakes and all.
What is a " Custmer" ? Is that someone who is by extrapolation Cussing them by making a complaint or someone they cuss for being a pain in the arse?

It's an "automatical" message which means the machine probably has better comprehension and a higher IQ than the people Running the place.


Also got a message from my light supplier. My 40Kg package is on the way from smelbourne. Interestingly, the shipping advance notice gives precise name and address details of the sender as well.
Might even have them Monday as it's coming Toll and I believe they run 24/7. Things may be a bit light on atm which could mean it gets here faster or could mean they are running at reduced staff so it takes longer. No rush anyhow.

[george65]

No one shot resoloution with the solar Controller.... :0)

Dear customer,


Thank you very much for your letter.


Really sorry to hear about that. In order to solve it for you in a better way, could you please send us some pictures or videos to show the problems?Our email box is XXX.com（Pls kindly provide buyerID for us when you send the video to the email box）.They would be very helpful for us, we will try our best to solve the problem ASAP.Please do not worry. We'd like to make up your benefit then.Thank you so much for understanding and cooperation.

Best regards
Raina

I replied using some of their own speak and made it very clear and plain what the problem was for fleabags benefit if not theirs.

Hello,

Thank you for your response.

It is not possible for me to send pictures to show the problem, it is because the problem is the unit is not what you described it to be in your listing and the controller has been misrepresented . This is a PWM NOT an MPPT controller. They are made differently and do different things. This one is not useful to me and NOT what I ordered according to your listing.
Did you see the links on my email that showed the testing many people have done on this that shows they are PWM and Not MPPT? They show the same controllers and explain why the one you sent is not the right one you advertised.
I have provided some resolutions to the problem in my last email as to how we can fix this and I can be satisfied customer.
Please do not worry though. If you can not refund me for the item being not as described, I can go through the ebay resolution process and I am sure they will be able to rectify things quickly to my benefit. If you are able to make this right, please let me know ASAP so we can get this problem fixed.
Thank you so much for your cooperation and understanding.

I'm still torn as to if these people are really dumb as sticks or they just pretend to be so obtuse so as to frustrate the buyer and make them give up. I wouldn't mind them trying to stall as much as if they brought something new up but asking for what you have already provided may be an effective deterrent to peruse the matter and exactly why they do it.
or they are the Dumbest Crunts in the whole wide world.

Anyway, the game continues.
Still haven't seen any of my now late lights.

[wotnot]

Although automatical is a 16th century adjective, it's probably the case their translation engine stumbled on the 'ly' at the end...which is often the case.

Time for a change of tack... lets put ebay to the test, and find out whether or not they're really the toothless tigers as is often used to describe their guideline/policy enforcement.

Lets see just how legitimate this light seller is with their ebay 'no faking worries' campaign BS shall we?

Lets make it a fair fight, and operate 'in band' without a purchase, and behave like a normal justifiably concerned and paranoid buyer. shall we?

While we're at it, lets rope in this whole 48/80W light BS as well, It's right about here you appreciate and understand why I'm so well spoken, verbose, and civil with this stuff, because it's right about here me and my ebay account are going to be scrutinized ; it's time to rise up out of the background noise, and become a radar target...it's time for a change, yes it's time!....{phuq that jingle, it's *still* there, and I don't even vote! =}

When george65 posted that link with the seller boasting 'real', tested, 48W lights, with the assurance they were part of the ebay 'no faking worries' campaign stuff, all sorts of wrong buzzers went off inside my head..ie; if any such policy existed, it's aim would be to benefit buyers, and ebay being what it is, I would've got an email promo on it, seen some banner ad scroll across ebay pages about it..*something*...yet, here I am looking at something I've never heard of/seen before, and it does *appear* to be an ebay ad. Of course, I don't shop ebay US very much, so maybe that's why I haven't seen in...could be a US promotion or something. This all said, when google's database returns zero hits on the campaign name/phrase, you can be sure there's smoke & mirrors at play..(photoshop =)

The strategy I'm going to use here, is create an open case number, and get it assigned to an email tag ID, so as to afford me a canvas not limited by 2000char. It's a good idea not to stray too far from that number, but you get around 500char worth of extra headroom on balance. To do this, I'm going to use the ebay Chat portal. This is a kind of speculative conversation, where I'm letting the ebay agent at the other end, more than less decide whether what I'm drawing to their attention, is worth creating a case number for or not.

Ebay agent in italics..

Good morning How can I help you?

Good morning - what is the ebay "no faking worries" campaign? Can you tell me?

I am sorry I have not heard about this.

May I know where did you see that campaign?

Sure, check this listing, it's mentioned in a picture top left of the page -->

This is for the item 2 x Genuine 48W LED work Light With Stainless Steel Mounting Brackets Flood Lamp?

Yes. There is a picture that claims they are part of the ebay no faking worries campaign, I'd never heard of it before

Okay .. when I check the listing it doesn't have that campaign ad.

At the same time we do not have that campaign. All items listed is in the same ebay sales process.

Buyer can purchase and pay then seller need to send the item within estimated delivery date.

Here is what I see on that listing page ->

That page cannot be load here in our end. Like I said I can see the listing in ebay website but doesn't shows that campsign ad

How can I show you the image they are advertising? If there is no such ebay campaign, surely they are trying to mislead? Can I email ebay about this seller? I am now more concerned

Yes you can. customerhelp_au@ebay.com Please send us that information at the same time. I will have this reported to be investigated

Ok, thank you very much, I shall do that!

Thanks as well Really appreciate all the information given.


That seemed to go 'as expected' ...when the agent signs out of the chat, you get a message saying a transcript of the chat will be sent to your email address. You receive that email, with HTML transcript of the chat attached, and it's assigned a tracking number - you reply directly to that email to keep tracking contiguous.

Remember I mentioned always ticking the 'send a copy to my email address' box? When you get this email above, there's this curio - ebay are doing exactly the same thing, for the same reasons I do ;


See in the chat record -- 'That page cannot be load here in our end' ..they can't load a imgur link on their workstation... it's locked down tight. Yet another reason to move this to email.. and you're not limited on picture attachments so much either (but I'll bet they'll have a cap/limit on the maximum size any one email can be...I know I would =)

What I really need to do now, is drive into town and pickup these other lights...I don't really want to rush too much, because if there's any collusion in the background between this seller, and the sales platform host, they'll drop that image from the item listing page, apparently unprompted...right? It's a bit like catching Bream...often, it's best to bait & cast your line, and walk away and let them catch themselves ..nothing to do with Sun Tzu, it's just what I've found estuary fishing for Bream B^)

[george65]

Like I said, dumb or calculated?

Sorry for the trouble caused for you.We could not watch in the link.Could you please kindly send the video to our email box?Thank you

They nearly lead me down the garden path but thought I'd use the oft annoying policy to advantage and put the wind up them... If they are smart enough to see the veiled threat and potential danger to them...

Hello,

No, I am sorry but it is against ebay Policy to have communications outside of ebay. There is a notation about this above this email box. I am not permitted to email you directly as you have requested. It is very easy to copy the links I have provided and see for yourself. I have verified they are working and correct.

If this is a problem and you cannot resolve this matter quickly and helpfully, as I said, I can go through the ebay resolution process and I am sure they will be able to rectify things quickly to my benefit. If you are able to make this right and without further delay, please let me know ASAP so we can get this problem fixed. Just advise me which way you would prefer me to go so we can resolve this problem with the goods you sent me which are not as described in the controller is a Cheaper PWM type and not the better MPPT you listed it as being as the links prove.
Please also do not ask me to Violate ebay policy again by sending me email addresses and asking me to respond outside of ebay because I will not breach the rules and guidelines You and I are supposed to obey and are there for my protection.

Thank you so much for your cooperation and understanding and I hope to see an expedient and favourable response from you next communication. .

So much for the pipe dream of a one shot resolution. Never mind. I think if they do have any clues this should put the wind up them a bit as to potential re[percussions from fleabay themselves if they have to get involved.
That said, I think logic and rationality stops when you get into ebay land and there is every chance they will be more vested in protecting their income than seeing the bigger potential cost and risk to them in violating policys.

[wotnot]

They nearly lead me down the garden path but thought I'd use the oft annoying policy to advantage and put the wind up them... If they are smart enough to see the veiled threat and potential danger to them...

The one shot is THE holy grail, been after it for more than 10years...not even close, If you can do a par5 in 4 that's ok, most of them are par 5...an eagle is outstanding ; it's usually an indicator the seller's deathly ill or something.

You're playing the stay in bounds card I see...always a useful strong off-suit card. I will only open that up if they're trying to send me something, like with that archive, and that goes to an email address itself outside of ebay usage. Otherwise it's best to play it tight like you are ~ it's not your, my, or anyone else's fault their workstations are locked down so tight, they're no longer really useful as a tool to deal with these ebay interactions - blame the system, not the people part of it.

To answer an earlier quandary of yours, the slimmer design lights still claiming to be 48W, just rattled off a preliminary number closer to 18W.. remeasure with accuracy later. Still a buck in there, but at a guess smaller, and doing 42v @ 700mA constant current. With less metal and heatsinking, I doubt you could run them at 1A because they'd burn to death on the first hour's run =) I just looked at the thermometer after 10mins running ~ 60C and it hasn't hit plateau yet (25C ambient)....got to 68C and hung there ..geezuz, how much of that 18W is going directly to invisible heat energy instead of visible light?..

[george65]

To answer an earlier quandary of yours, the slimmer design lights still claiming to be 48W, just rattled off a preliminary number closer to 18W..

Digging round up the back today I came across some of those lights I got before Christmas and Claimed on. They are the thinner ones but have some heatsinking unlike others I have seen where it is more raised style lines than anything else. I seem to have in mind they went 27 W But I'll putt them out and re measure. I did noticed the back of the lights were tapped with screw threads so one could put a fan on them although they would have to be under cover for that.

Seems the ones we got were the pick of the knockoff bunch.
In 2 Minds whether to get any more of these others now? All the 10 Packs I see are the thinner design. If they are going to overheat and not last at all....
Course the main time they will be used is in summer when it's hot so complete opposite to what I want. Probably OK on a vehicle with lots of rushing air which is what they may have counted on. Wait, what am I saying? That would require forethought into the longevity and quality of the product!
I just have to get this consumer/ ethical mindset out of my head and think like a Chinese seller where every single cent counts.


Perhaps the goal of these "resolutions" shouldn't be Minimum moves but lowest elapsed time?
I may not do well there. I don't have my phone on me 24/7 to see the instant the replies come. I go in and out all day doing things and coming back for a Cuppa or a rest and just check then. When I get going on something could be 4-5 Hours between looking at emails/ messages. So far the quickest res is 3 working days so if I can get that down to 1 day, I'll be happy even if it takes multiple messages. Probably need to be a wet day when I'm inside for that to happen.

Nothing at all arrived today so hopefully next week should be busy. I'll have the grand prize $750 purchase to deal with so I'll need to sharpen my game and be in top form. Then again, I think I'm overestimating the enemy. It's not a battle of wits as much as a battle of patience dealing with morons, deliberate or otherwise.

[george65]

Their Locked down computers are working against them.
What is this exactly for? So the workers can't watch porn and faceache at work? If they want to play dumb and obtuse, I can too.

To help you solve the problem accept your video which is allowed by eBay.Hope we could get your understanding and help.

Hello again,

Could you please explain what you mean as I am not sure what you are trying to say? You did not send any video for me to accept?

I will NOT be sending anything outside of ebay to email addresses and I do not understand what the difficulty is with this? The links I would email you if allowed which I an NOT, would be the same ones I have already included here. In case there is some strange reason they haven't gone though, I will put them here for you again. I do not understand the problem, I have sent pictures and links before with no trouble.

Please let me know if you would prefer me to go through the ebay resolution process and if that would be easier for you?

These are the linkt to YT vids which show the Controller is NOT as you described it to be a MPPT but is only a PWM type which is not the same thing and a much cheaper and inefficient devise.






Please let me know when you get these links of what you intend to do to rectify this situation and do let me know if you want me just to go through ebay?

I am also including a link to the page on Ebays Communication policy for you to read.



Thank you very much and have a nice day.

If they can't follow links provided through ebay, how could they follow them if they were mailed?
IF they come back again I'll change tact and say forget about the links, go test the units in your warehouse and see what they are for yourself.
Seems they aren't tooo worried about ebay getting involved. Haven't even said a woard about not to do that they will resolve it or anything else.

[wotnot]

If they can't follow links provided through ebay, how could they follow them if they were mailed?

Think Point-Of-Sale frontend at your local pizza shop - all the ebay messages etc hit their client software. To access links you send them, they have to use their email client & corporate email address, not the ebay frontend.


Okay...it's always best never to refer to your ebay message history, let them feel good about doing their job, don't remind them of something they're going to do anyway. As I know that my history as an ebay buyer is going to be checked, at least the last 3 months for sure but probably more, I can 'behave' here with official ebay channels, just as I have with sellers.

In saying that, it's going to be out of character if I -just- mention the one seller with the 'ebay no faking worries' BS going down...they'll see in recent months, I've bought more than a few of these so called '48W lights', so I need come up with a specious explanation for that activity. At the same time, I want to find out 'from da source' as it were, if that buyer activity is within bounds...anything else?..nah, that'll do..






International carrier pigeon arrived with message from the kit seller ;



Reply? Not now, paypal notification first...

[lsemmens]

.

This one is very telling!!! You'd hope that eBay would be down on these false advertisers like a ton of bricks. Maybe we should set up a competitor to eBay and start dealing with these scammers in the way that eBay should! It really does not help eBay's image if they let these things continue.

[wotnot]

This one is very telling!!! You'd hope that eBay would be down on these false advertisers like a ton of bricks. Maybe we should set up a competitor to eBay and start dealing with these scammers in the way that eBay should! It really does not help eBay's image if they let these things continue.

A lot of the time, some of this gameplay reminds of Cleese in The Cheese Shop sketch, where he says.. "Figures. Predictable, really I suppose. It was an act of purest optimism to have posed the question in the first place." I look at what I've typed, Especially the few questions I've actually asked there.

Your comment here, is pertinent - why didn't I fly off into an eloquent rant about why hadn't ebay come down on these sellers, why haven't they done something to stop it, what are they going to do in this case, now that I've brought this to their attention?...I mean, lets face it, I could've really let fly there. You'd be still reading =)

They already know, m'kay? What I tend to do, is try putting myself in -their- shoes ..how do you police this? How do you stop sellers (keep it specific) from listing electrical equipment including lights, at a high wattage rating than the product actually is? Think about it, yeah...mental exercise whatever -- how do you police & stop this selling practice, without turning sellers of such items, away from ebay altogether?

Perhaps another possible viewpoint ~ the ebay 'plus' thingme... have a look at what it offers the ebay buyer, for a $48/year fee ...I mean really, look what they offer. For mine, that very 'plus' service on offer, is nothing more than a veiled admission that they *can't* or *won't* put in an effective method to filter/vet sellers, and ebay 'plus' is nothing more than a form of electronic ebay buyer's car insurance, for the inevitable day they find a seller listing 40million candle power lights that run on 3 x AAA batteries (not included =)

I mean to say, they could do worse than employing folks like ourselves to become 'mystery' ebay buyers, to get out there and look for this stuff, but it's still not the answer. Like you say, their answer is going to be telling, because that email is sucha loaded bomb, I wouldn't touch it...that'd be a pass it on up to the boss type piece of radioactive material. The crucial point is, that they *are* valid questions, and really *do* need to be answered.

I've only had to flag the ref 3 times in the last dozen years, and certainly not about anything as serious as this. What if I'm not satisfied with their response? Do I retell the tale to the ACCC? Not as though that'd be hard work, an hour's cut&paste maybe.

--/ insert news alert signal /-

Well that didn't take long, here's their official response;



There you go -- read that, relative to what I wrote to them, m'kay? What conclusions would *you* draw here, as the buyer? Put yourself in my shoes -- so it's ok for me to become the kato masked shonky light ebay sniper buyer?!?!??

So I start my own ebay store, selling these lights to folks as 'this item is a 20W light that was obtained for free by the ebay returns policy, and is being sold to you at true cost price'...?..how weird can this get, considering how weird it is right now?

How do *I* read *that*? ..george!! Mate!!...am I looking at the holy grail oneshot here??!! Man...I have never been this close, I can almost taste the rainbow... I wonder if I win anything? I'll get the attempt at oneshot ready for Monday.

Quite obviously, it's time to get weird. I won't put it up in vision, but with that email coming back, there is also a track_id number affixed to it....shhh! ...I'm on the inside. What would Peter Griffin do right now?...

// sudden cut to out-take, showing wotnot quickly buying yet another '48W' light..from yet another seller in record time //

Now, intermission... I have to go outside for some midnight howling.

[wotnot]

Alright...what have they done..with their reply I mean. I think the first sentence relates to the story about our favourite 'my partner did it' light seller. The next sentence is how to say in 20 words you have a track_id number in their support system. Woohoo...not.

The 2nd para is what it is, a confirmation the concerns I raise & information I provided, does constitute enough for them to get the big waddy out. What assurances do I have of that happening? Will they notify me of the outcome?

Next, the 48W light that's 18W is being referred to, and the wording used is 'you can open a request to return the item right away'..that's different from you 'must' or 'have to'...I stick to my current practice of contacting the seller thanks, but thanks for the birdie card, might get that elusive one shot with that. Followed by the usual typeset of how to go about the ebay return process ... which I never need to use, because the guidelines say contact the seller first and try and work it out, and we always do. Perhaps they tossed this in because they can see that's how I operate with refunds/returns. This isn't a trap, but consider...if all buyers & sellers could work things out amicably, without getting ebay involved, they wouldn't need as many ebay 'agents' like the one I'm having an email discussion with, now would they? This is what I call 'job preservation'.

'Hope this information helps'...que?.. 'Thank you for choosing Ebay'..?...I did ask 4 questions, right?...so I guess that means, keep buying lights and returning the things, and keep shopping ebay, don't go elsewhere?

Maybe something got lost in translation?...lets see ;



I'm sure there's some fitting words here...it's all fun & games, until somebody breaks an egg?...

[george65]

Maybe we should set up a competitor to eBay and start dealing with these scammers in the way that eBay should! It really does not help eBay's image if they let these things continue.

The best way I can see to shut them down would be mass buys of 10 or more items, get a refund when they were not as described and then Offer them back up cheaply on fleabay with proper descriptions and ratings. If you mentioned anything about other sellers giving them over optimistic ratings, I would guarantee once you gained some decent amount of sales their would be whingers and your account would be banned. GUARANTEE IT! Anyone playing on this patch thinking it's going to be morally and ethically correct is laughably ignorant. This is BIG biz and the only thing that counts here is making money and doing it in a way you don't get shitcanned or put in jail.

Rob a bank of $100K and they will lock you up. Make $100K ripping people off on fleabay 10-$100 at a time and you have nothing to worry about.

To even ask why don't fleabag do something about this is ignorant on our part. They are doing millions of transactions and making Millions of Dollars out of it. Of course they know what is going on and really, why would they care? They do all the feel good buyer guarantees and have all the protection policy's which is more just to save face from the sellers that effectively Fk up and create an unhappy customer. Of course Fleabag are happy to appear a safe place for suckers to buy. They can do that and the seller pays for it.

As one example, I wonder how many of those 48/80W lights have been sold and what the return/ Dispute rate is? The sellers/ suppliers would know exactly and factor it in but I'd be surprised it it was more than 2% if that. Merely the cost of doing PROFITABLE business.

Looking at the Neg feedback of so many sellers, it's clear the majority of people who get screwed just write it off and wear it. They don't know, understand or could be fked with jumping the hoops to try and get their money back. I got screwed over more than once on legit purchases I made as well till I learned and got pissed off enough to try to get my money back but have been screwed on that too. This whole thing which I started buying goods which I knew were BS was learnt through practical experience of getting ripped off. I make every purchase in good faith it is as described but now, if I check and it does not turn out that way, well I know what to do about it. Simple as that.

Fleabag aren't going to stop these thousands of sellers as it must be world wide providing them an income. They are a business with share holders and their goal and function is to make money. No $$ for them in trying to be the most ethical organisation out there. Their competitors would eat them alive.
I have used Amazon but a scant handful of times in my life ( Because the pricks never seem to deliver the most mundane things including books to my suburban location) but I have no doubt the situation is exactly the same there and probably bang good and every other online sales site as well.


As for you raising awareness of my buying history wotnot with multiple purchases / returns of the same things, the reasoning I had in mind if questioned was exactly what you suggested.
I have been buying lights which have turned out to be fakes and I have been looking for a set of genuine lights. Not my fault if the place is full of shoddy sellers and I have to keep buying over and over to find something that is what it says. The fact is it's Fleabay and the sellers fault entirely. What the hell can they ping me for on that?
I'm not really in this for any nobel cause. There is no way I or even a group of us are going to sway a corporate Giant and honestly, I have more to worry about fixing in my life than mission impossible causes like this. They want to take advantage of people and leave themselves open to being taken advantae of in the process, that's their tough luck. Works both ways and I will take advantage of them at every opportunity.

If I can get this $750 purchase over the line, watch out. This will be the test. I WILL put my money where my mouth is and this is a real soft test to do that. I wanted the lights anyway but if they aren't as they should be and I can claim on them for begin unfit, Then I'm more than prepared to put many hundreds into this and make it worthwhile. I half joked to a friend the other night, maybe come December I'll have enough of this shit to set up a stall at the local markets and sell it in return for the time and effort invested. With nil cost stock, I may do well. I also laughed that maybe there might be some undercover cops come along and ask where did you get all this? No Problem! I can show you where I got each and every item and I'll be more than happy to tell you the story as well!

From what I can see, there is virtually nothing they can do to stop what we are doing other than advertise the products honestly and accurately.
We can create new accounts, can send stuff to post offices everywhere for collection, get different cards and methods for payment..... And still WE would be doing nothing actually wrong.
There are LAWS in place that say you can't sell goods that do not fit the description as advertised, you are not permitted to sell goods unfit for purpose and you cannot sell goods which are uncertified or don't have relevant approvals. There is NOTHING to say however you can't buy these goods or are doing something wrong in buying something that is not as described but you ARE entitled to refund or replacement if you do.

The rules are written FOR us and against the shonky sellers.

I have never scammed anyone in my life but I'd be lying if I didn't admit this gives me a real feeling of being a winner for once. I have always wanted to get back at sleazy cheats and scammers and this is a way I can. To my screwed up mind, this is both mentally satisfying and potentially profitable as well as being something I can do with my various health problems. I am not breaking any laws, I am not doing anything wrong, I am just using some smarts and rapidly Improving knowledge, (Thank you wotnot) to my advantage the same as I would in any other business or endeavour.

The fact I'm taking advantage of Crooks and scammers Shit Fluckery and low life antics is like Icing on the cake.

I think after that I'll go Buy something else now..... What's next on the list?

[wotnot]

See, this is counter-point to anyone who thought this sort of buying was underhanded, subterfuge, trickery, dishonesty, guile, deviousness, evasion, deceit, deception ,dishonesty, cheating or any other synonym like that.

Some people may refer to me as a tight wad or know it all, and apart from the intrinsic compliment in such ...it's still wrong ; those sorts of idioms don't apply to the ebay universe. In the ebay universe, gravity is not a constant, E does NOT equal MC squared, and the laws of thermodynamics do not apply.

This is me, putting on the HI-VIS vest, standing up to the ref, putting all my cards on the table, bringing my extensive buying history under scrutiny, and everything else ... and asking, not once, not twice, but multiple times -- is the buyer activity of mine I'm bringing to your attention, acceptable buyer behaviour on eBay?

So on with the show - here's the reply I received after me questioning what assurances I have regarding the eBay 'investigation' process, and after pointing out I'd bought yet another of these lights, from yet another seller peddling the things... and after clearly indicating I can find 10 or more such sellers...and that I'm going to end up generating a lot of refund/return claims on the things, in the process of buying/searching for genuine 48W lights ;



All warm and fuzzy... they passed the privacy check (no, they can't tell me how hard they spank any buyer/seller), and if I'm to read any intimation from that, the second sentence of the second para is the likely outcome. It's a slam-dunk on the seller, not for what they're selling & at what price, but because of that 'no faking worries' image.

Again, no mention of my buyer's actions/intent as most clearly related to them...in fact, I almost come away with the feeling I'm being treated as persona-grata here =)

Ok... three's the charm, right....one last time shall we, and this time I'll see if I can cover off one more aspect...is it okay for other buyers like me, to do as I do?




I really can't be more pointed and in their face about it ...if I try any harder, it'll look like it's *me* taking the piss out of them....but, like, what else can you do? It's their playground, their rules, there is no higher authority to bounce this shit off..is there? Well...the ACCC maybe, but this sortta crap is more the fodder for a 60Minutes short, or a guest appearance in Ripley's believe it or not.