Dealing with *some* Ebay sellers!

[george65]

Hey, don't push it too hard or dob them all in, I'm on a good thing here for once in my life! I'll be real annoyed if sharing this leads to it coming undone.

I think it's quite funny that a lot of the language in the first reply was highly similar to the responses we get from the shonky sellers.

I doubt you'd get 60Min or anyone else interested in it. All these big businesses are connected in some way, maybe ebay advertises with the owners of the stations or one of their other media organisations and they aren't going to cut their own revenue from advertising either.
All we need at this point is the Green light that buying as we are isn't going to make us look bad. Can't see how they could do anything But say we are OK and I'm also sure they will say they want to know about the shonks. They would have to say that to keep up the facade they are trying to make it a safe place and all the other protection arse covering BS they go on with.

If it's reported, they will probably give them a slap on the wrist warning so again, they have covered their arse's if it goes any further and that's it.
Pretty sure this isn't the first time this has come up in all the years fleabag has been around.

Only real way a seller will get kicked is if they don't pay their fees.

[wotnot]

Here we go hoopy froods, this is as close as we're going to get to reality. My emails/messages, are always drawn as 'formal letters' ..(do they still teach this at school?)..and because of the situation (I'm a 'member' of their 'community'), I can intermix ams and block style in the formal. If you don't know what I'm referring to, google 'formal letter writing' -- the ebay agents replies, adhere to the same formal. Now...typically speaking, one party drafts the letter, in a clear and processional order, all the points they want to get across -- in reply, the respondent's formal in reply, addresses the points raised, one by one, in order they appear in the original letter..right?

Look at the formal of my previous email - gratuitous greeting, thanks for services rendered, small hint there that I'd like to know the timeframe (periodically check seller's listing, sure that won't take long) ...then I'm off into the 48W light shit again, like a pitbull that has lost the ability to let go =) I mean to say, if I drop all the fancy writing and fall back to the stirring aussie smartarse I am, who's always up for a bit of a shitfight if I find someone, anyone, ripping of not just fellow aussies, but this entire nation besides.. you have to admit, as an aussie, I'm shoving the situation with these lights so far down ebay's throat, they no longer possess a place where the light no longer shines B^) I don't just have the HI-VIS on anymore...that last email, I'm wearing that, have a strobelight on my head, a smoke flare in each hand, and indicating I'm going to shout out to my mates..(we're all mates here, right? =)... that you should go out and buy these lights from all sellers listing the things, and we're gunna have a party, you bet..

Then I ask 1 question, back that up with reasoned assertion of intent, gratuitous signing off, with indicated antici....pation of reply. All good? So they should reply in like letter formal, and in order of points presented ... here's what I got;




Like...wow!...that's impressive. That's all hand writing I think...caveat gratuitous sign off ...that, is something *I* would write, if I were an eBay agent, and I had to deal with a ####tard aussie buyer like me =) I *cannot* push it any further than this ..if I mention those frigging lights one more time, they'll blow a fuse and flick the member harassment switch..you'd read the headlines as "player gets suspended for mouthing off continually at all refs on the field" ... you know who this was written by? The man in the booth, the legendary THIRD UMPIRE ...this is the ebay video referee =) The -order- of reply within this formal is *most* important.

First sentence ..very first sentence...it's been moved to the much coveted position of opening sentence, because they're sick and phuqing tired of me not 'taking the hint' about my proposed buying spree on these lights, which end up in refunds/returns, and the fact I'm going to broadcast this situation to other mates, perhaps also ebay members (but not only, you can buy as a 'guest') - their first sentence here, is acknowledgment that what I propose is fine, and in fact is a 'kind understanding on our policy and guidelines'. So allow me to just deal with that right the now;

@george65 and everyone else -- go out there and look for these 48W or 80W LED lights on ebay, and buy them. I'm looking for an honest seller of these lights, who is selling the *true* 48W version of these lights. If you find such a seller, please let me know by posting to this thread. Do NOT worry if what you buy isn't as described -- I've already contacted ebay customer service about these shonky/misleadingly advertised lights, and they are aware of the situation, so you will have no problem getting a refund on your purchase ; in many cases, you may get a full/partial refund and get to keep the item - use the content of this thread to help find a shonky seller. If you find you have been sold LED lights that aren't the wattage they claim to be in the item description, you can report the seller directly to ebay customer support (AU), or else just PM or post the seller's listing URL here and I'll forward it on. If you want to buy these lights for personal gain, cheaply, that's fine too. It's most useful if I know the seller ID or item page, because I can add them to my ebay case file listing ebay.au and false advertising these lights.

Now that's out of the way, 2nd sentence... first clause, is that a job in the offing? This is why earlier, I mentioned the hypothetical question 'how could you police this sort of thing', if you were ebay. Whoever typed that might be canny enough to think that if I can do something as I describe to them, and that's still within guidelines & policy and I know it (message history dobbed me in =), then perhaps I have a worthwhile suggestion to help them curb this sort of thing. Second clause there is polite retort to any inference I may have raised about they're reporting system being...less than it should be. (guilty, I know what I wrote =)

Third sentence...ok...umm... so this track_id has now become my defacto 48W LED scam seller reporting thread?...cool, makes sense to collate all the data under one bug#. As I said before, use other ppl's databases...all levels.

2nd para...answer to my inferred query on timeframe ..still an open door there for something like 'I kept rechecking the sellers listing, but nothing has changed - why?' ...'is it done yet?'...'is it done yet?'....don't tempt me, suppose I should check this seller's listing huh?...pffft!...not done yet. This, will come back to haunt them in a short order of time if it's not correctly executed ..tune in next week for that gameplay if they drop the ball here =)

Gratuitous sign off...

So...I'm down t 3 sentences in 3 moves...and we have all learned a lot about the game arena. Thus, I better reply in terse formal again, to let them know 'I get it now' .. and rationalize a suggestion ..not that there's any obvious one I can think of, but I can at least condone the current 'consequential' form of damage control, when you're someone like ebay and confronted with such a reality ;




..time for my late afternoon 48W light purchase ...tallyho!..

[wotnot]

Hey, don't push it too hard or dob them all in, I'm on a good thing here for once in my life! I'll be real annoyed if sharing this leads to it coming undone.

Kill...KILL...Exterminate!! E X T E R M I N A T E !!...




Nah, all good mate, just let me know who to step over, and I'm only targeting those 48W jobs. Tell you what...seeing as we're after global domination here, you can have AU and feed me sellers who piss you off too much, and I'll deal with O/S sellers 'coz I don't care when things get here...worse comes to worse, I'll end up with a whole heap of the things, and at 520gm per light, you can have them and pickup the postage cost...you'd get 6 in a big postbag me thinks..more of the slimmer ones =) Oh, and remember, my cited MO here is to buy one at a time, from various sellers, looking for that golden egg. Also keep in mind, ebay are just as likely to do nothing as well..just like they're leaving us alone, it's gunna be the same deal for the sellers...ie; fend for yourself. You'll be right, I'm just covering your arse =)

I would suggest, that ebay's position here, is exactly the only thing they can do ; let the buyers deal with it. At some ultimate level, the problem is not purely the sellers, it's that bloke at the end of the assembly line, who's job it is to make sure his rubber stamp marks each box with 48W ...that is the problem. They are relying on buyers such as myself, to exercise and leverage the guidelines & policies, so that they don't really have to do anything. Sometime in the future, a prospective ebay seller will see these 48W again, and go "Hell no, don't stock those things! Remember the great 48W LED light depression of 2020? I think there was a bunch of crazy aussies behind that, but someone from the UK said it happened there as well"...

Welcome to the 2nd level of this 3D game =)

[wotnot]

The final word from ebay (for now);



See? That's confirmation that what we're doing, is a-ok. Finally, that specifically addresses my concerns. Now, I have established an open register .. what am I going to do with it?

Well, it occurs to me that, in recent times, I bought off a seller who blamed their partner, and they had the sheer unmitigated audacity to ignore my $4/no return offer ; revenge is a dish best served cold =)
.

[lsemmens]

It does sound like a playground "He hit me, so I hit him back" Squabble. This is still quite entertaining, Keep it up!

[wotnot]

It does sound like a playground "He hit me, so I hit him back" Squabble. This is still quite entertaining, Keep it up!

Could I perhaps interest you with some lights I will have up for sale? Each one has been individually tested, and guaranteed to be rated correctly. Stock is a bit low at the moment, because our procurement drive has only just begun, but an expression of interest will ensure your position at the top of the list!

Have a nice day, and thank you for choosing Austech forums!!

[george65]

See? That's confirmation that what we're doing, is a-ok. Finally, that specifically addresses my concerns. Now, I have established an open register .. what am I going to do with it?

Well, it occurs to me that, in recent times, I bought off a seller who blamed their partner, and they had the sheer unmitigated audacity to ignore my $4/no return offer ; revenge is a dish best served cold =)
.

Trying to sell you a dodgy light, not so much a problem.
Ignoring your generous $4 refund offer.... Now that's an insult no self respecting man can forgive!

Lock and load, Present arms, FIRE!!!

Looking at the 48W lights atm, It's just amazing the price ranges they go for.
Did you say the ones from the No faking ones were only 18W? I'd like to get some of the other thicker ones like we got off light man in bulk. Maybe I'll just order 5 sets of theirs. They are getting well trained up in refunds on those now so price is irrelevant. Living out of town has it's rewards as far as returning things as well.
Seems buying quality fake 48W lights is getting harder.

I wonder what they buy these lights for? The fact they were selling them for $8.99 means they must be bloody cheap.

I think I'll go for some inverters next. something I have been scammed on before so I am due to make up some ground and some of the exaggerations I have seen on those is REALLY over the top. Like selling a small economy car and claiming it does low 7's in the quarter and has a top speed on the straight at the nurburgring of 350 Kph. Actually, I think that would be far less of an exaggeration.

I got an email from my 1000W hand held spot light seller. Been another delay and I won't get them till the end of next week They are sending me a pair of 7 inch led light bars. Not sure what the rating of those is. They have 6 LED's so going by ebay standards, they will probably be 120W given they are a " Light Bar".
1000 W hand held Light... I bet that thing will kick when you turn it on!

Now I'm going to have to get myself a pair of large deep cycle batteries to run this 1000W Light or I spose I could crank up the Lister 6/1 Generator. That does 160A or about 2000W@ 12V so should be OK. Weights 300Kg so going to be bloody heavy to carry around through the bush at night!
No wait, I'll use the China Diesel I got in 2018 for only $54 because the Idiot sellers listed that as a 10 Hp when it was only a 6 because they went on the capacity and didn't have a clue what the difference was between a Diesel and a petrol engine. I sent them links and explanations and they still couldn't get their thick heads around it.

After calling ME for all the scammers and cheats in the world, they refunded me less the delivery and I kept the engine.
That was the infamous Mills dodgy brothers.

Hmm, I wonder how accurate the rating is of petrol generators they put on fleabay?

[wotnot]

I wonder what they buy these lights for? The fact they were selling them for $8.99 means they must be bloody cheap.

Around US$1.26/unit in a MOQ of 1000 pieces. Further price break at 10,000 pieces

No wait, I'll use the China Diesel I got in 2018 for only $54 because the Idiot sellers listed that as a 10 Hp when it was only a 6 because they went on the capacity and didn't have a clue what the difference was between a Diesel and a petrol engine. I sent them links and explanations and they still couldn't get their thick heads around it

.

I can definitely argue the case for investing in a small engine dyno =)

Hmm, I wonder how accurate the rating is of petrol generators they put on fleabay?

I wonder how accurate the rating is of ANYTHING they put on fleabay... still, tacit world, measuring & testing equipment is eminently available ...where I'm heading here, I'm getting the urge to buy a lux meter.

[wotnot]

So it looks like this fell flat on it's face ;




This numpty hasn't even got a clue...




I was actually looking for anyone doing active ebay product testing....truly silly thought that...

...oh, look out!... incoming...



...excellent.... oh dear, the feedback link has expired! If only they'd been quicker sorting things out...(like taking my first AUD$7 offer, feedback window was still open then), shame, damn shame...all that positive feedback I promised to give them, and now it has nowhere to go =)

[george65]

Around US$1.26/unit in a MOQ of 1000 pieces. Further price break at 10,000 pieces

Yeah but that wouldn't be what the eblay sellers buy them for from the wholesalers..... Would it?
The store / system owner, whatever you call them the store fronts are bought off by the poor innocent mums and dads working from home, might get them for that and then distribute them to the shopfront owners but what would THEY buy them for?

I bought another 6 Lights off our favourite Friend. The price of the lights have gone up and I saw the word " New" in the corner of they ad so these must be different to the last ones I got and was refunded on Now I and other people have made the sellers aware of them so these must be real 48W Lights Right? :0)

I can definitely argue the case for investing in a small engine dyno =)

No need in this case. The outputs of a Diesel and that of a petrol in the same relative capacities are much different.

I wonder how accurate the rating is of ANYTHING they put on fleabay...

You can say that again!

Just looking at more lights. It's just mind boggling the fictitious numbers they put on these things. I mean there is guiding the lilly and then there is just outright Fantasy! Then again, the 200/6W Lights I got at 3% of rated capacity would take some beating. My 1000W Light I think may come in at 5% if it has a 55W bulb but if it has the 35 I'm thinking...... it won't be far off the 200's over rating.

still, tacit world, measuring & testing equipment is eminently available ...where I'm heading here, I'm getting the urge to buy a lux meter.

My seem to have lost the attachment for my exy Light meter for that which is a shame. There is a guy on YT that is testing lights with a Lux meter, an amp meter and a temp meter. Lux meters are not that exy. I noticed tonight a number of sellers are specifying " Theoretical Lux" I am also seeing some sellers are specifying power outputs for very few of their lights.
Mainly the smaller ones, the larger ones are still Fictitious in the extreme.

[george65]

Just looking at Amazon.
Seem the same dodgy over rated items. Their policy on not as described I couldn't find much on.
I did see they have pickup lockers in my little town. Anyone used them?
I also note they have a $39 per order free shipping deal. What if not all the items are eligible but you have over $39 in an order of ones that are? Is the whole order then free shipping?

What have been peoples experiences with amazon and getting refunds for things that weren't as described? Do you initially deal with the seller first like Fleabay or Amazon?

[wotnot]

Their policy on not as described I couldn't find much on.

I don't deal with Amazon ; why? ; no paypal =)

[wotnot]

@george65 ...how many times have you said to yourself, "Sometimes I feel like I'm living in the wrong country" ...?



Takes 4 x es460c bricks, includes 48v battery charger, multiple power rails ..US$51 for what once was a few thousand dollar case...enough to make you cry 8^)

but what would THEY buy them for?

Ahh, soz... to keep it real, I found one quote offering US$0.96/piece for the things in a MOQ of 22,500 ...

Down where you're pointing the bone, best I can figure is lowest AUD price I can find is about $6.80 ...so if you work the rule of thumb that includes a 100% markup...somewhere in the AUD $3-$4 area per piece...rough guess.

so these must be real 48W Lights Right? :0)

You can see from the 'tone' of my ebay customer support exchange, that's the way ebay will see it too.

It's just mind boggling the fictitious numbers they put on these things. I mean there is guiding the lilly and then there is just outright Fantasy!

Yeah...that was my point of the 'what I do take objection to' para -- some sellers are unwitting pawns in someone else's game -- others, are frigging evil greedy pricks that deserve to be slit up a treat...and I'm happy to oblige if they want to play like novices =)

[Godzilla]

Good one tonight.

Customer purchased a product, we shipped it, with tracking, customer says they didn't receive it, tracking shows they did.

Customer claims they never signed for it (now with covid-19, no one is asked to sign)

Goes on to ask how can we prove they got it when they didnt sign for it?

I then pointed out i would contact the courier and get the photo of the person signing for it sent to me on Monday.

All of a sudden, 5 minutes later they found it. They claim the wife put it somewhere.

I should still ask for the pic for fun, bet you it was the bloke taking delivery as checking the delivery details, the name give was the same as the registered account holder.

I dont think they realized this courier asks and notes the name and takes pictures on their PDA.......

[wotnot]

Good one tonight.

Customer purchased a product, we shipped it, with tracking, customer says they didn't receive it, tracking shows they did.

Customer claims they never signed for it (now with covid-19, no one is asked to sign)

Goes on to ask how can we prove they got it when they didnt sign for it?

I then pointed out i would contact the courier and get the photo of the person signing for it sent to me on Monday.

All of a sudden, 5 minutes later they found it. They claim the wife put it somewhere.

I should still ask for the pic for fun, bet you it was the bloke taking delivery as checking the delivery details, the name give was the same as the registered account holder.

I dont think they realized this courier asks and notes the name and takes pictures on their PDA.......

Hahaha, there are some seriously dumb thieving mongrels out there, I don't envy you your task with these scum, but you seem to have a nice firm grip on the situation =) One thing's for sure -- I'm never left wondering what type of person it is who that forms the type of unscrupulous ebay sellers we're discussing here -- it's exactly the same sort of people you have to put up with as unscrupulous buyers.

Humanity, the great equalizer =)

[george65]

@george65 ...how many times have you said to yourself, "Sometimes I feel like I'm living in the wrong country" ...?

More than my Chinese made 8 Digit calculator can show.
Usually from stuff the yanks can get so easily and so Cheaply that's often just not available here. And when you can find it, of course costs a fortune.
And they often STILL complain about it. I have found a few things over the years we have in cheap abundance they can't get though. I like to rub that in on forums wherever possible. :0)

Cheap, used solar panels is one. The prices they pay over there, even for low wattage used ones, makes me think about loading up a shipping container and sending it over. I know there are people here doing exactly that to the Middle east and Africa. Bought some off a solar installer that had a couple of hundred that came off a factory. Guy there loading a rent a ute was telling him not to sell me any because he was coming back for them. I turned to the guy selling them and said in that case I'll take 10 More. He gave me 5 for free! :0)

Takes 4 x es460c bricks, includes 48v battery charger, multiple power rails ..US$51 for what once was a few thousand dollar case...enough to make you cry 8^)

I have got a bunch of IT stuff like that. Company once gave me a server they paid $38,000 for 11 years earlier. Worked fine but the company that did their Data backup required them to have something no more than 10 Yo.

Went to another place once after winning a big router for $8. Coming down in the lift a guy asks if that was on ebay and could he ask how much I paid for it?
I told him and he laughed. He said I remember when we bought that. I was the purchasing officer and we were at the IT dept if there wasn't anything cheaper than the $4k that cost. I didn't think any router I could easily carry could be that much. It was a Kick arse router though even when it was years old too.

somewhere in the AUD $3-$4 area per piece...rough guess.

They weren't making much on them at $8.99 then but they are making plenty at the $70 and more I'm seeing them offered at. As pointed out, they were doing them at $109 after the 8.99 as well. Don't think I have ever seen anything offered at such a huge range of price points and on the same selling platform as well.
Wonder if they will ever put them down to $8.99 again?

You can see from the 'tone' of my ebay customer support exchange, that's the way ebay will see it too.

Yes, that was Very useful information in a variety of aspects. Apart from that, in the normal world where there is gravity and oxygen, it's a perfectly logical assumption. One that could be well argued was the exact impression the seller was trying to create in fact with the price rise and the word "New" on the listing main pic.

others, are frigging evil greedy pricks that deserve to be slit up a treat...and I'm happy to oblige if they want to play like novices =)

Forgot about those 99999W lights. They list them as that in the headline pic and again specify it below as LED power. I'm tempted to email one and ask if it's 99999W or 9999W? Can't loose whatever they say. Clearly they are totaly and utterly clueless. I mean to anyone with the faintest clue, they have to be BS.
They only need to notice the headlights in their car are 50 W and work out what 10 Kw is going to be to realise that cannot be possible.

I got to get me some of those 10 Kilo Lights. Not only would they light up rooms straight through the walls, they will keep the whole house nice and cosy right through winter. :0)

[wotnot]

They weren't making much on them at $8.99 then but they are making plenty at the $70 and more I'm seeing them offered at.

Don't forget, that'll include postage to final destination (buyer), so buy for $3.50, sell for $9...still a good earner...buy 10 for $35, make $55, and all you have to do is hoist an ebay listing (website template & images supplied as well)

The sellers making the most out of them, are those selling them as a pair in the $20-$25 price range ; the perception is, that 'Free Postage' is offering a better deal on a 2 buy, than single purchase..because it'd be a bigger, heavier parcel...doesn't matter, postage was still included in the buy price (at least for drop sellers/shippers)

Yes, that was Very useful information in a variety of aspects.

Had to be done, if not only for demonstration purposes here for this thread, but also to sure our own position. Water off a duck's back to me obviously, but don't think for a moment I'm finished with them...because I'm not =)

Decided to see if the feedback system was still impervious to accepting belated data entry ;



Doesn't hurt to adhere to the credo 'never display impudence' ..be tonight before I hear back on that one, if at all.



Back to topic ...Dealing with *some* Ebay sellers!

From the ebay agent's reply earlier;

Most reports are reviewed within 6 to 24 hours. If you don't see any action on your end by then, please understand that many actions aren't visible to others.

For everything that's been read & written, here's what I fully expect to happen over the coming days...

*I will recheck the sellers listing, and nothing will change
*eBay themselves, will do nothing about the seller as I surmised previously
*it will still be up to me, the buyer, to deal with this seller
*the enemy of my enemy, is still my enemy




Really?...




Or perhaps doing it this way? ;



Since when is a 'flood' beam confined to a 50degree angle anyhow...

And lifespan is 50,000 ....what? Seconds? Minutes? Days??..number of moths attracted over a year?..

Housing material...well, the alloy is actually known as A360.0-F , but that only relates to the faceplate? So if I bust one of these fukkas open, inside I'm going to find 2 different alloys used in construction?

Ok... a really, really, simple one... 4.07A @ 12v = 48.84W == item not as described ; 2.03A @ 24v = 48.72W == item not as described ; +5% = +2.44W == item not as described ; -5% = -2.44W == item not as described. This might seem like I'm splitting hairs, but it's not -- if you're going to state you measured current down to the 2nd decimal point, every other figure involved must be reckoned down to the same accuracy ; if they has put 2A instead of 2.03A this wouldn't matter...but, they did the latter.




Yes...I've worked with LEXAN & UVEX ...mind telling me which lexan grade it is?



Which market? The one at the local playground once a month?



Obviously the lights absorb moisture or something...I only measured 515gm ...I bet even this is exaggerated, heavier is better, right? Come on..just who the blazes would be looking at these listings, and comparing the weight of lights....hahaha..

And of course, this still there ;




I feel a cunningly crufted pre-purchase questionnaire may be in order.

[george65]

They are really setting themselves up......

"Hi,

I bought a set of your lights and tested them as you suggested and found they are only 21W at best. as what you sold me appear to be fakes, I'd like my money back as per your Guarantee. As per Ebay Policy, you are responsible for the return of the lights so can arrange a courier to come get them or I'll work out how much for you to forward me to take them to the local post office with one of your return labels....."

Again, their dishonesty and confidence trickery works better for the " Astute" buyer like up to take them down than it does for them to win over sales.

[wotnot]

...why am I not surprised =)

[wotnot]

You have to study the rules of play, or you'll get caught out. I repeat, you have to study the rules of play, not just read them.

There will be a tendency here for people to read what I send/type to sellers, without realizing they are very measured responses.

Here's a simple example ->

Study that, don't read it. In that process, you will come across this line, which is a behaviour that ebay do NOT allow buyers to do;

Requesting a partial refund without returning the item

Every single word, is a booby-trap. I never use the word 'request' (or any derivatives) in any message exchange. It seems like a benign word when read in English, but in commercial parlance that word can be construed as 'demand'. If you let that happen...(yes, it'll be your fault for not studying the rules)..you'll be found guilty of bad ebay buyer/member behaviour, and you're screwed. This is why, I always make partial refund 'offers' to the seller, with -my- condition of no returns, and say if they agree to that offer, stick the money back in my palpay account, where it came from. The very next line, I will point out if they do not agree to that offer, then *I* agree to go through the more regular, road of last resort ebay buyer protection policy route, as ebay guidelines dictate I do, if we can't sort it out ourselves. Sometimes, I will invite (not ask) the seller to make a counter-offer to help expedite an equitable resolution, and other times the most effective thing to message in contact with seller, is the simple 'How do you wish to proceed?' (to resolve the apparent & obvious problem) - let them choose the venue, from the first salvo.

Offer them anything you like, invite them to entertain other options all you wish, but always...always...indicate you are happy to use the ebay refund/return process if the seller so desires it happen that way ; I haven't found one yet, when given the choice, that opts for the default way to go about this. This game can be a very ..subtle .. one at times, so I figured this was worth pointing out.