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Thread: Dealing with *some* Ebay sellers!

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    Default Dealing with *some* Ebay sellers!

    Inspired by George's & Wotnot's posts here -


    Quote Originally Posted by george65 View Post
    Fleabay is getting so full of crap that is over rated and just plain lied about it's beyond a joke.

    I'm coming across so much of it I'm taking advantage of it.
    Bought an SLA battery the other week, 12V 12 Ah. took it out the box ans straight away saw it was a 7ah with a sticker over the specs. Contacted seller and blew a fuse. They started with the usual " Can you take a photo and send it ?" crap. I said NO, you know bloody well what it is, you go take a photo of all the rest of the ones in your warehouse if you want.
    Tell me where to send it back at YOUR expense or I will be complaining to ebay and doing a review on my YT channel naming and shaming. I heard no more then I got a refund notice.
    Cool. so I waited a fortnight and ordered another. Price had gone up, a lot, so I thought I might get the 12 Ah but no, another 7 AH. complained again, another refund, now have 2 batterys which are coming in handy.

    Did the same thing with some LED lights. Not bad Lights in themselves, but I knew bloody well looking at the ad they weren't going to be 200W ea as stated 3 times in the ad and with " Free returns. Things arrived, onto a power meter, yep, 27W. Same thing, told them up front don't ask for the delaying tactic of a photo, I'm not jumping hoops, there is nothing wrong with them other than they are not what you said and you know it. This time I got the old thing about a partial refund and a sob story they don't make much money with postage etc and the annoying " Hope you understand" garbage. I said I want full refund or I'll leave neg feedback. They stalled and mucked around, I left neg feedback saying the lights were 27W not 200W, ripoff beware. Next thing is if we refund will you change Feedback? Yes. Got the refund so I changed the feedback and put " Refunded" at the end.

    They weren't happy and went on about me changing it to positive feedback. I said my feedback was honest and the experience and mucking around was not at all positive and I wanted what I paid for in the first place which I still haven't got.

    Did that with some other lights as well. Not what they said, I knew that when I bought them but got a refund so more free stuff. Got some SSR's that I knew were under rated but would do the job, Complained one blew which I knew from other reviews it would if run near rated output and got the money back on that. Other one was a solar controller which I knew was PWM and still a real good unit but was advertised as MPPT. That guy tried to be a smart arse till I mentioned I'd do a name and shame YT vid as well as contact Fleabay. He wanted to know my qualifications. I told him i'm an electrical engineer, what are your qualifications to dispute what I'm saying? Refund.

    If these crunts want to rip people off, then they can get a bit back far as I'm concerned. Even when they refund me in admittance the product is not what it says, they don't stop selling them so farkum. So far I have done this with about 6 things lately and got a refund every time. done it about 6 more times over the years but lately I'm looking at it as a sport.
    Going to be interesting to see how many times I can hit the same seller before they wake up.
    Mrs wanted to know the other day how come there were so many refunds on the CC. When I told her she asked if I could get a few things she wanted the same way? :0)

    Whatever you do, do NOT accept a part refund. Only lets them get away with their shit####ery. Tell them you want to send it back which I think costs them more or just creates too many problems and if they stall, leave a neg feedback. Takes that to motivate some of them. The only problem I see is that if you pay postage separately they may not refund that but I would push it. They will always try to stall and make it too hard but you just have to play hardball and they will fall over. At least all mine have. Aussie based sellers seem to the most easy to get money back out of so I try to find what I want with them. All Chinese con men anyway.

    Use words like Counterfeit and mis labled and tell them under Australian law the item was not fit for the purpose advertised and therefore illegal to be sold. Also complaints to fleabay about counterfeit and wrongly specified seems to ring bells. Counterfeits/ fakes are also good. Once you talk about that they get very helpful. Done a couple of those too. Again, not bad items, just not what they said.
    Fleabay does tend to look down on them so the sellers are pretty keen to bury it quick.

    I'm actually looking to buy stuff now I know isn't right because I know there is a real good chance I'll get it for nothing and it's not all bad.

    Now, I need some 18650 Batteries, where did I see those Bullshit 5 ah ones advertised? :0)
    Great to see others are waking up to this too!
    As Ebay doesn't seem interested in getting rid of those parasites (usually based in China) who consistently false advertise or issue dodge when called out on their deceptions, it's one of the few ways we can actually do anything about them.

    If there's an issue with something I've received I give them 3 working days to respond to the first email, no response = bad rating.
    I find it quite amazing how quickly they get in touch once they've got the bad rating, usually with some sob story about how a bad rating affects their business & could I change the bad rating to a good one etc. etc..
    Then they try the asking for a photo or video approach, I normally will send photos if something is not right in the initial email, doesn't seem to matter though they still ask, I refuse or explain I already have.
    Next comes the offer of a partial refund, which I always refuse and then they usually increase the amount slightly over time, as a deliberate stalling tactic.
    When they keep playing these stupid games, depending on what sort of mood I'm in at the time as to how long I let it go on, I then simply start a return.
    Some will ignore that which makes it easy, just take it up with Ebay after the 4 days or whatever it is.
    Others will agree to the return but piss around for weeks not sending the return details as they're required to, again easy, I give them about a fortnight then take it up with Ebay.
    It's happened about 5 times in the last month now, received some products that were broken, wouldn't work or were just absolute garbage, and each time Ebay has said keep the item, here's your refund.

    Never start a return before rating an item, if done it'll be removed from purchase history leaving no option to rate.
    So I always make sure I give those deserving the bad rating before I start the return process.
    I have no idea if that rating actually makes it through to public viewing or not, but it makes me feel better.
    I think it does in some instances as I've been contacted by those whinging about it being bad after I've started the return process.

    Here's my latest issue with an LED worklight pack of 4 that arrived with one broken, the below correspondence took place over the last 11 days starting on the 6th of March.
    This sort of thing is becoming more and more common on Fleabay nowdays, as George mentions above, it's beyond a joke.

    Me to them:
    Hello,
    Received these lights today, thank you.
    Unfortunately though, one of them is broken - see attached images.
    That's how it was when I opened the packaging.
    The other 3 are fine.
    I would appreciate your assistance in resolving this issue.
    Thanks

    I sent them a couple of photos of the broken light in this initial email.


    Their reply:
    Dear buyer
    Really sorry to this inconvenience.
    Maybe it broken due to the violent shipment.
    Have you test the lights?
    Can it work?
    If you dont' mind,could you please keep the item,we will give you 10% discount.
    Is it ok for you?
    Or if you have any idea or question,please contact us freely.
    Regards

    My reply to that:
    No I do not accept your offer, 10% is an insult when 25% of the product I purchased is unusable because it's broken.
    The light itself does work but with those pieces broken it cannot be mounted correctly, these lights are heavy and to be mounted on a work vehicle they need good, secure, stable mounts, not broken mounts.
    I do not know how, where, when, or why it is broken, but the fact is I received a broken product from you, and that's not good enough.
    I need 4 working lights that are not broken.
    Your assistance in resolving this issue will be appreciated.

    From them:
    Dear buyer
    Really sorry to this inconvenience.
    To avoid this thing happen again.we will refund you 25%,is it ok for you?
    Or if you have any idea or question,please contact us freely.
    Regards

    Me:
    As I mentioned previously I need 4 working lights that are not broken.
    Please send me another light that is not broken and I will send you back the broken light.

    From them:
    Dear buyer
    Really sorry to this inconvenience.
    We have not sold the item separate.
    Would you mind keep the item,we will give you 30% discount.
    Sorry for all the inconvenience caused.
    Regards

    Me:
    Where am I supposed to get the 4th light from?
    I need 4 not 3.

    From them:
    Dear buyer
    Really sorry to this.
    If you don't mind,could you please keep the item,we will give you 35% discount.
    Is it ok for you?
    Any question can contact me freely.
    Sorry for all the inconvenience caused.
    We must caused you a lot of inconvenience! Truly sorry and beg your pardon!
    Regards

    Me:
    Give me another set at half price and I will keep the damaged light, otherwise I will return the damaged set and buy them from another seller.

    From them:
    Dear buyer
    We really don't earn any profit,hope you can understanding.
    We will give you 40% discount as the compensation,is it ok for you?
    Or if you have any idea or question,please contact us freely.
    Regards

    Me:
    I will pay you 60% value for another set then, and I will have the 4 lights that I need.

    And finally from them today:
    Or we can give you 45% discount?

    Didn't bother replying to that, just gave them the bad rating they deserved and started the return process...idiots...

    Got another one ongoing at the moment with regards to a faulty engine temperature gauge, the seller is refusing to acknowledge my initial purchase email from Ebay as proof of purchase

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    I admire your patience with the lights, I would have given them the crap rating after the first contact, and gone from there.
    Cheers
    Ted (Al)

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    I look at a seller's history first.... sellers like the one you are dealing with invariably have a very bad history, so I don't bother even buying from them at all.

    Minimises the risk of getting a crap product, lengthy delivery times and having to deal with morons trying to sort out an issue afterwards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Bundy View Post
    I admire your patience with the lights, I would have given them the crap rating after the first contact, and gone from there.
    If I'm having a bad day, item needed ASAP & they start pissing me around I do, otherwise I don't stress too much over it.
    On rare occasions I've had a seller send me a second item free of charge off their own back when it's been dragging on for a while, maybe just to shut me up, or to avoid bad ratings or Ebay stepping in perhaps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtv View Post
    I look at a seller's history first.... sellers like the one you are dealing with invariably have a very bad history, so I don't bother even buying from them at all.

    Minimises the risk of getting a crap product, lengthy delivery times and having to deal with morons trying to sort out an issue afterwards.
    Good point, I usually forget to do that, will have to try and remember.
    Often I find it's the only seller listing what I want at the time, as was the case with the LED light pack.

    EDIT:

    By history you mean the info available when clicking on their username?
    This one has 1922 positive, 15 neutral & 7 negative which I thought wasn't too bad for someone based in China.

    Just got another email from them after starting the return an hour or so ago:
    Dear buyer
    To solve it asap.would you mind keep the item,we will give you 60% discount.
    Is it ok for you?
    Or if you have any idea or question,please contact us freely.
    Regards
    Not sure which part of "I need 4 lights" they can't understand.
    Last edited by Jma; 17-03-20 at 09:14 PM. Reason: Question added.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jma View Post
    By history you mean the info available when clicking on their username?
    This one has 1922 positive, 15 neutral & 7 negative which I thought wasn't too bad for someone based in China.
    Yes, the seller information feedback profile.

    That one is obviously a fairly new seller with those figures... agreed, they don't look too bad.

    I'm tipping the longer they trade, the greater the negative feedback they'll receive.

    Have a look at some of the Chinese sellers.... with thousands of negative feedback comments.

    Reckon this seller is aspiring to be one of those.

    Just make a claim through PayPal, assuming that's how you paid for the items.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtv View Post
    Yes, the seller information feedback profile.

    That one is obviously a fairly new seller with those figures... agreed, they don't look too bad.

    I'm tipping the longer they trade, the greater the negative feedback they'll receive.

    Have a look at some of the Chinese sellers.... with thousands of negative feedback comments.

    Reckon this seller is aspiring to be one of those.

    Just make a claim through PayPal, assuming that's how you paid for the items.
    Yeah I sometimes do check that out first if I think of it, then I try to get the item I want from an Aussie based seller...provided their "item location" address isn't just shown as Chullora NSW which is the location of a large mail centre I think, or Sydney Australia, which, like Chullora, often means it's coming from China first.
    For the last 12 months those feedback numbers apparently are, not quite as impressive as I first thought seeing they've been a member since 2014, still not too bad considering their base location, though as you say they're probably working hard at it.
    Lol, one I saw a while ago was like that, thousands of negative reviews.
    I usually try Ebay for claims first, after 30 days it's straight over to Paypal, sometimes I don't get time to test or even open things I buy for quite some time afterwards which can be a hassle when there's a problem.
    PayPal gives you 6 months from purchase date which isn't too bad.

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    @Jma - thanks for picking up the nudge, saved me from having to hoist the topic =)

    We'll start with understanding ; folks should understand that they, as the buyer, will most probably have a greater command of English than the seller. What you need to understand, is that the same is so for the Ebay employees who read such communications and handle disputes ; their command of English also exceeds that of the seller in most cases. Ergo, never skimp on your words ; be precise, succinct, and to the point...even if you know for sure the seller's not going to understand half of what you say, you can be sure Ebay staff will read and comprehend all of it ; so called 'language barriers' are not a hindrance, but to your advantage -- always be verbose, not brief.

    Understand that the words "I am hopeful we can sort this out, as I don't want to leave negative feedback", is a very powerful line -- most sellers will want to avoid that at all costs, and it good to let -them- know, you know that ; it doesn't need to be a threat. just an inevitable consquence of what'll happen if they *don't* sort the problem out to your satisfaction ...three important words there.

    Know that they're going to ask for proof, photographs and/or videos, and preempt that by supplying the seller same in the very first contact ; that way they don't have to ask - it helps hasten the process. Some forms or proof are more useful than others -- youtube videos that identify the faulty goods clearly, with a voice over description are most potent, especially when you can identify the seller name with selling shonky products. It's not the same just putting up an image and name...publicly find-able/locatable vid content works best.

    Understand that you are likely to know more about the product they're selling than they do. Demonstrate this to them if you can.

    As mentioned above, *do not* settle for less than equitable 1:1 cost refund -- if you paid money for something and it's faulty, you are entitled a full refund or replacement ; that simple. If you agree to anything less, you're short-changing yourself.

    Also as exampled above, demonstrate you're trying to work *with* them, to resolve the problem in an equitable fashion -- by 'equitable fashion', try to angle the resolution so there's gain for both parties. Often that can take the form of the seller offering you a refund, and you offering to buy more of their stock at a discount equal to the refund amount.

    What is really quirky about all this... and hopefully other's input here will further obviate this.... is how all these sorts of sellers, seemingly read from and use the same 'scripting' material...like, it doesn't matter if you're buying baby rattles, a lawn mower, 3D printer, or inflatable plastic woman (deluxe model =) ..if the goods are faulty, you can pretty much guarantee the same forms of reply...as in form letters.

    Here's my latest example of same, and although the items are quite different from what Jma is dealing with, you can see the same words and intents are evident ; know this, use it...

    me:

    Hello.

    The modules purchased were received Friday March 6th.

    I have since tested the modules, and one of them appears to be faulty.

    The faults are (on 1 of 4x 7219 module);

    1 - one matrix display has severe flicker when all 64 LEDs are lit
    2 - two matrix displays sporadically stop working

    It is very hard to capture flicker with a digital camera, and in the video you will only note this as an increased blanking time on the flickering matrix -- the faulty matrix is 3rd from the left -->

    This video shows the fault of the matrix(s) sporadically not working -- you can see here the matrix 2nd from the left has failed to display, but after a few minutes of operating, the left-most matrix will also fail to function -->

    The other 4x 7219 module performs faultlessly.

    I have inspected the module assembly and find no bad solder joints ~ I can only surmise the 'no-name' max7219 chips used on the faulty module are bad.

    How do you wish to proceed regarding replacement/refund for the faulty module? I do not wish to leave negative feedback, seeing as the other module is fine, and the single bad one might just be a 'dud'




    Like, I know they're going to ask for a description, and photos/videos or whatever to prove your case ; I also know the ebay crowd rely on this sort of thing to help settle disputes..in your favour. At this stage I don't know who I'm responding to, but chances are they won't have the grasp of English that *I* do, and you can use that because the folks at ebay are similarly disposed -- their grasp of English will be as good as mine. It's a tiny bit of effort that ensures you only have to do it once..

    seller:

    hello, dear buyer. Sorry the inconvenience with you. We have told the problem to our product specialist to help you solve it, please wait a moment.We will do our best to help you solve the problem and feel free contact us.thank you


    See what I mean...starting to look familiar already, huh?
    I could almost guess their reply would be something like that, palming the problem off to their 'product specialist' ... but any such person, would've seen the youtube video, me making mention of 'blanking time' and 'no-name' chips, and said to themselves "Uh-oh, this bloke knows his stuff, we'd better refund him" ...but too late! They missed that chance, so my reply becomes a little more verbose...

    me:

    Hello again. Thank you for your reply, however, it is impossible for your 'product specialist' to help me resolve anything, because the problem is within the integrated circuit component used. As I have some 40+ years of experience/expertise within the electronics industry, perhaps I can more clearly detail the problem to you, so we can resolve this issue as quickly as possible?

    Your product is listed as using the Max7219 IC, and the images depicting the module, clearly shows a 'genuine' MAXIM MAX7219EWG IC. Regardless of the fact those images may be 'representative' only, the modules I received have *not* been assembled/made utilizing genuine Maxim parts, but instead a generic, 'no-name' and unbranded IC has been used. There is a reason for that - a genuine max7219 IC costs at least 50% more for a single IC, than the cost of this module using 4 of such LED driver IC's! In other words, a module like this should be a cost of some AUD$40 or more, if 'real' max7219 parts were used.

    Thing is, I already know all this ; I know the only place you can cost-cut the production of such a module, is to use 'fake' or 'knock-off' max7219 parts. That said, ultimately whatever part is used, so long as it provides 'as like' or 'similar' performance to the real max7219 IC, in practical terms it doesn't matter -- as long as the internal clock speed of each of these IC's is roughly the same, and fast enough to 'fool' the human eye utilizing persistence of vision, it doesn't really matter if the clock skew of the cheap IC's is +/- 10% -- it *does* matter when the clock skew runs out to 30%, and the human eye discerns bad 'flicker'. That's what happening in this case - one of the modules supplied to me, has a bad batch of IC's soldered on it.

    Usually these cheap max7219 chips work fine, as exampled by the other module I bought which works perfectly. All you can do is replace, refund, or send me some replacement ICs for me to solder on myself ; they cost < $2 each =)

    I'll bet george65 appreciates the tact there, given his postings on this =) There's nothing more disconcerting for a seller, to see the complaining buyer happy, level headed, and smiling ..and wrapping them up in English...that's their sign the buyer is happy for a reason, the buyer knows Ebay will be one their side. Use the ebay supplied resources - you've got a character limit on replies, USE UP THAT BUFFER!! Don't be brief, have at it ..spell it out for them, invariably you're actually perhaps educating them..you never know. Above, I'm actually attacking the 'product specialist' , seeing as -they- identified this person as the person handling 'your case' (inferred)...but...

    seller:
    Hello, dear buyer , sorry for the item. We have told the problem to our supplier.To deal with it , do you mind we refund 3 AUD to you as our sincere apology? Is that accept for you? We are looking forward to you reply. Best regards.


    Nooo, you had your chance to do that, before you started with the 'product specialist' bullshit ...which you've been called out on buddy, because now it's suddenly 'our supplier'...okay, but they've offered a $3 refund as sincere apology? I don't think so...I paid $6 for the faulty module... it's right about this time, you rely on the ebay folks and seller's responsibilities...and buyer's rights...

    me:

    Hello again!

    Thank you for your reply, however I must respectfully decline your offer of a $3AUD refund in apology for the faulty module.

    The reason for that, is purely because it does not provide me with an effective resolution to the problem --- I still need a working 4x max7219 module to complete the project I'm working on!

    Can I propose to you an alternative solution?

    I see on your Ebay store listing, you have 2 of these modules left.

    I am willing to buy the remaining 2 modules you have, for $6.20AUD per module, making the total $12.40

    This would be a $3AUD discount on the purchase price for the last 2 modules you have, and provides me with what I need + a spare should it be needed.

    Can you agree to this solution?

    Always employ the counter-offer angle, that is both reasonable in cost/resolution, while also offering the seller some advantage as well - buy more from them. If they go for this, I can get replacement IC's for $1.20 a pop and replace the dud ones, and it's still cost effective for that kind of module.

    seller:

    Hello, dear buyer , sorry for the item. We have told the problem to our supplier.To deal with it , do you mind we refund 6 AUD to you as our sincere apology? Is that accept for you? We are looking forward to you reply. Best regards.


    hashtag FFS! There it is, the first reply they should have given me...awesome, we'll curtail this right here;

    me:

    Hello again,

    Ok, I will accept a $6 AUD refund for the faulty module as your apology for supplying a 'bad' item.

    As soon as that refund appears in my PayPal account, I shall leave positive feedback on this purchase.

    Thank you for your time and understanding,


    seller;

    Dear customer ,we are really appreciate it that you are willing to accept the refund which will be refunded to your account in two working days ,please check out later.Thanks for your understanding. Best regards.


    They will get positive feedback, but it won't be 5 star. As a discerning buyer, they lose 1 star for not checking item before shipping, lose another for the BS advertising, yet another star lost for trying on the product specialist bullshit with me, and another for not acknowledging my counter offer at all, and instead offering a full refund like they should've in the first place...so 1 star for refunding my money in under 2hours <grin>, and the comment won't be flattering....and I might get around to doing that at the end of this week, just so a red flag shows on their masters' computer screen indicating a sale has not been completed.

    Often, that doesn't matter, because these generic sellers often only have limited stock of any item...often the number is 10. That's the MOQ (minimum order quantity) for a lot of items in these knockoff catalogs these Chinese sellers are using... it's like pyramid selling, and the tupperware party is their ebay store. It's like a get rich quick via ebay 'kit', often an extended form of dropselling ... it's why these sellers' responses are uncannily similar ; they're reading from the same instruction manual. Also, many of these ebay sellers are Banggood dropsellers, which is slightly different again.

    You have to enjoy the sport, or it becomes frustrating very quickly - keep away from sellers who's stores don't specialize in a particular goods area ; only buy a toaster from ebay stores that specialize in kitchen appliances, not from store that sell toasters,
    baby rattles, lawn mowers, 3D printers, and inflatable plastic women (including the deluxe model =)

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    No probs.
    Yep few familiarities there, I haven't seen the "do you mind we refund 3 AUD to you" for a while now, that seemed popular last year, this year they mostly use the "$3" instead, they are evolving
    You appear more polite to them than I can manage most of the time.

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    I just got suckered !!!!! from fleabay bought a isolator tx-rx brand labled as vhf so due diligence googled the supplied part no and yes thats correct so went ahead with the purchase upon checking the seller out some sort of egyptian historic ???? but thought well maybe his mate selling it ?? the number's check out but not made any longer as company sold to bird then motorola etc but they made good gear wanted to use it on local ham repeater 147mhz time goes-by as customs do their thing etc and it arrives and one gets excited to play with the new toy so into the bw/s and out with the rigexpert set freq to 145mhz range 5mhz put dummy load on output and push the go button WHAT???? nothing flat line oh shit so check the dummy loads all three of them all ok good so whats happened ?.Check each circulator individually both nothing so stuff this open up the freq to 500mhz try again nothing ? EH scratch head bull shit must be doing something wrong getting old "ahem " ok google it yep as expressed then notice an old description that they made several models with the same number and there was a added letter on the end that indicated the band but were made to order so all had the same models . Time to try again freq to 1000mhz range 500mhz push button hey presto a real good dip at 900mhz so any one want some good circulators for 900mhz band or the complete isolator with couplings and dummy loads etc pm me with offers . Don

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    Not surprisingly, I take a different view to some here.

    These people KNOW they are selling fake shit in a lot of cases and are crooks PURPOSEFULLY trying to deceive people. It's NOT an accident, it's not their supplier, it's a whole corrupt industry relying on peoples ignorance and the protection of distance. They know damn well they couldn't get away with this Bullshit in a store front setup. It's overwhelmingly done by Asians whom along with punjabs are the greatest tight arses in the world and think a 2C discount is giving away the farm.

    The upshot is they are knowingly and Purposefully ripping people off. I'll bet my arse in the case of the broken light they were sent like that . Send shit they probably bought cheap, give 10% off, they are ahead.

    Also not sure of my position on giving pos feedback just because they gave a refund. To me they are corrupt little Fks and most people will look at the 99% pos feedback and think they are OK when the story may be different. Neg feedback causes them problems behind the scenes with different things as well as with customer confidence. Also for me, when I get something and it's shit, I'm usually pissed off and inconvenienced. For the most part I just want what I paid for not to be dicked around. I rather pay full price, get what I want and that's it.

    Again though, most of these little crunts are deliberately and knowingly sending this shit out, not accidently at all and I don't like having the Piss taken one little bit. In person I WILL cause a scene and rip people a new one, well known for it the same as I will also call managers and supervisors and point out people who give great service and them away that the person is an assett to their business and give the employee may card and say If they don't look after you here, ring me and I know someone that would be glad to have you with them.


    As far as Looking at feedback, It has to be REALLY poor to mean anything. All these ones I'm deliberately taking advantage of with their shitfluckery all have VERY GOOD ratings.
    They can sell underrated LEDS all day long and how many people out there are actually going to test the things or know enough about a Multimeter if they have one to test them? 1 In 100? So they advertise 27W lights as 200 and the dumb buyers snap them up because big numbers sell and the suckers don't know the difference.
    Lights arrive, Ohh, they look bright, positive feedback for being ripped off.
    Means nothing.

    Don't get me wrong, if it's a serious purchase I look at all the Neg feedback particularly for the item I'm after and see what's there. Often you find trends where people say item didn't arrive, arrived broken or some other common complaint across a range of goods. When I see that I move to the next offering.

    I also agree YT is a GREAT place to research. Many of these products are the self same thing and sold by 100 Sellers. The items themselves are NOT what they purport even if it's marked on the item and the box. There are a bunch of guys doing tests ( big clive for one) and they uncover a lot of sham items. They also can point out things like this isn't all bad, just not what it says so at least you know what you are getting which may in fact do what you need and do it a lot cheaper than the proper item would.
    My adjustable Solar controllers case in point. They work very well when set up properly, they just aren't MPPT as the specify. For $20 as against 70, they do the job VERY well for what I want so turn out to be a great buy when I can get the things for nothing especially.


    YT is also great for working out how to use things I bought a timer board the other week. Had a bit of difficulty setting the thing simple as it sounds.
    Went on YT and found the thing has 18 functions. I'm amazed with the the thing and what it is capeable of! Would have been a Major project to build something with 1/4 of the things this board does not so long ago and you wouldn't have built it for 8 bux delivered either. Once I saw the YT vid and the long list of programs that didn't come with it ( electronics boards VERY rarely have instructions) it's easy to use.

    The other thing YT is great for is cross refrence. How many things have I come across listed as timer when they are a thermostat, relay or even a power supply? All the listing on fleabay and there may be 20 or more will ALL list the things incorrectly. Probably should start looking for the boards I want and buying them then get a refund as not fit for purpose or as advertised? Missed that one so far! Damn!


    I don't have the patience for too many too and Fro's either. 3 is the Max they get then neg feedback. That soon stops the bullshit and invokes the desired result when they see they are not going to get away with succkering this patsy. their stall tactics shit me to tears as does the send Photo tactic. A picture isn't going to show you whether the thing has 1w or 3 W leds as you claim and it's not broken or damaged so WTF is it going to show you? Nothing and you know it so don't play me for a fool. I already spotted your scam so now is time to pay up and YOU be the sucker for a change.

    I spent time selling cars. I was good at it in the end, too good. believe it or not I do have a concience and while I was making shitloads of money, it was one of the unhappiest times of my life. Up to that point anyway. One day It got too much and I packed up and walked out and it did play on my mind for a long time. In time however I realise what a great life lesson it was.
    Not only did I learn to sell (myself and family included when it came to getting jobs) but I learned to BUY as well and THAT has been one of my great life skills.
    It also wakes you up to a lot of potential scams and how shoddy people think.
    Yeah, car salesmen ARE everything they are made out to be but it's because the buyers MAKE them that way.

    These crunt fleabay sellers do it all off their own greedy, lying, deceitful backs though. I have ZERO sympathy and little patience other than when it's too my advantage.
    I say don't play their games, don't be paitent, they are playing you from the minute they buy stuff they KNOW is legit and sell it as something it's not. Hardball the little bastards, don't give them an inch and play the game YOUR way not theirs.

    One thing I have come unstuck on with real purchases in the past is trying to get replacements. They will say they will take an extended time because they have to come from another warehouse or whatever and that cooks off the time you have to leave feedback. They stall long enough, you loose your advantage, fleabay says the purchase is too old and you only have 60 days to claim and you are flucked. That's why I leave neg feedback up front and have them chasing ME to change it and don't try to get replacements. Better to take the money and order again. I'm also seeing great blow outs in delivery times.

    I'm sure they can blame current world events BUT, I see the angle here. If the thing takes 6 weeks and they have specified 8 or 10 and you say it hasn't arrived and get the " please pay more Paitence" BS, it could very well be after the claim time and again you are screwed.
    That said. I got something on friday that had June delivery time I missed and it turned up in 3 weeks. I'm more than sure a lot of the little cheating bastards will soon get onto playing this line though.

    China doesen't seem to be the Problem ATM, mate sent me something from Melbourne a week ago and I'm still waiting on it. Hopefully comes today or I'll have to start with the tracking number BS which thankfully he got.

    The more these lying fleabay crook sellers loose out and the more people they can't put off by making it all too hard and having them jump through hoops, the worse it makes their day and the less incentive to keep being low life little pricks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jma View Post
    No probs.
    Yep few familiarities there, I haven't seen the "do you mind we refund 3 AUD to you" for a while now, that seemed popular last year, this year they mostly use the "$3" instead, they are evolving
    You appear more polite to them than I can manage most of the time.
    That'd be a fair observation ; I can afford to be polite, I have the high ground, the battle is mine - we're merely negotiating the terms of their surrender.

    If you can think of it in those terms, you'll do okay ... "business is war", as Jack Trameil once said.

    I don't mind bantering with email exchanges, the way I figure it, I've got them over a barrel in that regard - they *have* to respond, I don't... I can fall through to refund dispute any time ; they know this too. This ties them up a little, and because a lot of the time it's me who's actually drawing things out..deliberately... as I know this too is measured by their master's management software ; sales requiring email exchanges are counter productive, the more you can poke and prod them into replying, the more you're tugging their strings. If they see you getting angry or desperate or impolite or taking a threatening stance, they'll figure out their attempts to piss you off are working ; keep thinking Art of War and you'll be fine. The moment you show any sign of weakness, they win.

    This is culturally subtle, m'kay ... umm..like this -- a crux line in your initial contact with the seller, is 'I would appreciate your assistance in resolving this issue' ...that is like the victor, asking the vanquished, how they would like their surrender to proceed ; in my initial contact, the same crux line is 'How do you wish to proceed regarding replacement/refund for the faulty module?' ...that is me, the victor, telling them they have one of two choices - full stop.

    Another excellent demonstration of this from your exchange, is where you come out punching with '
    No I do not accept your offer, 10% is an insult when 25% of the product I purchased is unusable' ...and seller comes back with ' we will refund you 25%,is it ok for you? ' ...hahaha, left yourself wide open to that one <grin>. It is what it is - they don't conduct business nor think about the customer like we do.

    A simple example of that might be, in my case it went from a 50% refund offer...which, and get this...I really expect from them, I would respect them less if they caved in straight away relative to -their- culture...to a 100% in a few steps. When I gave them 2 choices... refund or replace .. they will always choose the former ; they can barter on the size of the refund - replacement is a fixed cost + postage/shipping. When I say I 'respectfully' decline their first offer, I mean that in the context that I expect their bidness practices to barter in this fashion, and they likewise have to respect my reply.

    I believe when they see the complaining buyer becoming adversarial/angry/aggressive, they immediately go for the incremental % of refund value offer, just because they wanna piss you off more ... the angrier you are, the happier and more in control they are B^)

    Of course, you (that's the general 'you' anyone reading this) could try the ultra direct, verbose & polite victor's approach, and see if it makes any difference or not. Also, we could setup ebay sellers' stores like this, by sharing their ebay url and comparing experiences with the same seller. Like I say, you have to like the sport... that's all they view it as.
    Last edited by wotnot; 19-03-20 at 10:54 AM.

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    Lo and behold after giving a bad rating and starting a return yesterday I get this message today:
    Dear buyer
    To protect your benefit,we will resend a pair of lights to you.
    One light as the compensation,is it ok for you?
    Or if you have any idea or question,please contact us freely.
    Regards
    Amazing

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    I would be setting a SHORT deadline for their ( it's? ) arrival. Tell them "Sure But I only have 7 Days to change my feedback and I want the item before I change it. "

    Like I said, I never change to a positive rating, only add it was replaced/ Refunded. Your call of course.

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    Also, we could setup ebay sellers' stores like this, by sharing their ebay url and comparing experiences with the same seller.
    I like this idea. Set up the shonks so a few of us can get free stuff by claiming on their false advertising. After they get hit a few times, Might make them think again.... but I doubt it.

    This guy is selling these Outdoor LED Lights which are not near their rating.


    Measured them and they were closer to 20W. Got a refund and the lights have been fine, just not the power they sold them as.
    I highly suspect all their other LEDS are the same.

    These are the LED worklights that are NOT 48w but OK otherwise.



    Claimed and refunded on those.
    They work real good on the little tractor though.

    Just going back though my purchase history I see a few of the places I got stuff from and they refunded are no longer registered users. Must have been real fly by nighters.
    Also realised a few I get refunds on that were total and utter crap. Not much point getting anything from them refund or not.

    I'll add some more once I get the stuff in transit and a refund if it is as I have put my money on, not up to the advertised ratings but otherwise OK.
    Last edited by george65; 18-03-20 at 08:38 PM.

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    That's it, don't get angry, get even. It's a free market place, and you make of it what you will ; they're not really expecting this sort of buyer cooperation, and it would be a bizarre thing to debate out ethically ... I mean, to ebay that is...you can just imagine it... "well, we noticed this seller was falsely advertising their product, but we also found out they happy to refund the money if they got called out on that ...so 300 of us all got together, and..." ...hahaha.

    Then again, if we can have this thought, likely others have done so before, and this too could be responsible for ebay sellers/stores suddenly disappearing...you get a run of buyers on a product you know the ebay policies enforce you having to refund every purchase, it'd be wise to disappear -- you've been tagged. I'll have crawl through the ebay T&Cs on broken glass and see if this sort of organized buying is out of bounds .. too hard to detect/enforce anyhow, and for mine falls under the auspices of 'word of mouth' really...still, curious angle to contemplate.

    One thing's for sure, nobody else is going to do anything about these sellers, and while the buyers have the means, they should exercise same to get recompense.

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    This all started with the battery charger in the other thread, so I'm gunna chew hard on that.

    Feedback and reviews can be ostensibly useless, for a number of reasons ... here's an example ;



    Now..scroll down a bit until you get to the panel with the words 'WHY BUY FROM US', and to the right 'LATEST PRODUCT REVIEWS'

    Next, start scrolling through those reviews ... won't take you long to recognize these are reviews of many different product, and -not- the charger at all.

    Feedback, especially ebay feedback ... ugh, this is so tainted. What you're seeing, is the initial reaction/response from buyers. We all know you have a time limit to leave feedback, and you can't change your feedback afterwards. Imho, that's a flaw in ebay's policy, and they should redress that.

    The why is easy to fathom, and some items are more prone to this effect than others. What the ebay feedback doesn't show, is what happens to folks after they leave their (positive) feedback, and the item dies a couple of months later. It's very rare to see something like "Although initial purchase went fine, and unit did work out of the box, it failed 2months later, was replaced under warranty, but that unit failed as well" ... but it happens.

    It's not surprizing - ideally, the ebay feedback reporting system should remain open/active for the period of the item's stated warranty (if any or implied by local laws), for all new items ..or something like that. Of course, ebay don't want to do that, because all these sellers will stop using ebay, and use other portals instead... speaking of which ;

    Notice the pricing on that ebay page... up to 80% off, but the price is a huge 60% off...so right from the get go, you should be contacting the seller for the 80% off price. Here's the same company's own website shop ;

    ..you gotta scroll down and read the specs, and take umbrage at the spelling of Australia with a small 'a'... same mob though.

    Here they are on scumtree ... ... here's kogan's trading-post presence .. ... and Kogan itself... and this just goes on and on with this Rossmark branded charger product line.

    It becomes clear, that although I'm still on topic here and talking about some ebay sellers, the problem is much more wide-spread than just ebay. Any effort to try to 'make a difference', is a futile battle ~ they close shop, open another, close factory, retool with different branding ; you have to use a like mentality - get as much out of them in the same fashion as they would be trying to get as much out of you - they use planned deception, so can you.

    A couple of times I've mentioned seller 'kits' and ecommerce management software used by their bosses/suppliers to keep track of their minions' online stores (not just ebay) ... wanna see one?



    george65 incidentally referenced that, posting the link above;



    Scroll right to the bottom of the page, you'll see the 'TongTool' watermark ; it is one of many. It's the easiest way to pick these sellers out ..it's a game called 'spot the toolkit'

    @george65 -- okay mate, we're on -- I put $3 towards the $6 refund I got from the dud LED matrix module, and just bought one of those spotties ; the experiment in dodgey market manipulation has begun =)

    If I get the $9 refunded from the shifty rated spotlight, I can put $3 towards that, and buy another pair of LED matrix modules. Now...if one of them turns out to be faulty, with the $6 refund I get from that...

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    Quote Originally Posted by george65 View Post
    I would be setting a SHORT deadline for their ( it's? ) arrival. Tell them "Sure But I only have 7 Days to change my feedback and I want the item before I change it. "

    Like I said, I never change to a positive rating, only add it was replaced/ Refunded. Your call of course.
    I see a tracking number has been emailed to me, wasn't expecting that so soon, will see how long it takes now to actually get moving as sometimes I see tracking numbers 'provided' then it takes weeks for anything else to happen.
    I think that might be because the item has to get here from China first.

    No I won't be changing to a positive rating, never have, once they get a negative rating off me that's it, they've earned it so it's theirs to keep forever
    if they wanted a positive one all they had to do was send me another light to replace the broken one, not carry on with the crap they did for nearly a fortnight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wotnot View Post
    ...Next, start scrolling through those reviews ... won't take you long to recognize these are reviews of many different product, and -not- the charger at all.
    Yes I noticed that some time ago, it appears quite common for all their reviews get lumped in together, not just reviews for the item you're viewing at the time.


    Quote Originally Posted by wotnot View Post
    ...Scroll right to the bottom of the page, you'll see the 'TongTool' watermark ; it is one of many. It's the easiest way to pick these sellers out ..it's a game called 'spot the toolkit'
    Interesting, my ad blocker has been blocking all that sort of stuff, just disabled it to have a look, I normally only see the "Powered by" text & nothing else.

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    A lot of insight and good information being presented here.

    I agree with the Feedback statement can be useless. On Many levels. Some people are still just excited stuff turned up at all and hurriedly rushed to leave feedback because that's what they are so encouraged to do at every turn. I also seen endless instruction and get messages for pretty much everything I buy saying if there is a problem Don't leave back feedback, contact them and then a step by step of how to leave feedback with implicit directions to only leave 5 stars on everything and of course tick the positive box.

    I always get Video testominials from my clients and when they ask what to say, I always tell them to say they had a terrible time, it was the worst experience, they wouldn't recommend me to anyone..... and make a joke of it and simply tell them, say whatever you feel and tell the truth. I know I got nothing to worry about so don't have to fear them telling it like it is.
    Bit different to these fleabay shonks.

    There is a company on fleabay called " Mills Trading" whom also sell under "Edisons" as well as several other names. Sell a variety of stuff including a lot of outdoor equipment. They sell ship loads of stuff, literally and some is OK and some is utter crap. Their service is garbage and their " Technicians" who service their gear must be UNtrained monkeys. I have bought a number of their products and had to repair it before first use when it was all supposedly checked before delivery. Not sure what they checked, The colour maybe.

    I have seen them come up in discussions and I think there was at least a face waste discussion page for a while. Like others, I have left neg feedback that has dissappeared. This is widely reported so quite obvious fleabay is removing it when they are not supposed to have it removed and the reviews are HIGHLY biased.
    The other thing these pricks are widely Known for is blocking people whom leave neg feedback. Did that to me as well so I opened other accounts and to equal things out left a neg feedback on other things I had bought which were iffy anyway but along with past experience of being fked over....

    This is some of their products. Usually pretty easy to spot by their distinct ads and visuals .



    Their products tend to be low Quality but well presented. Some are OK but there are always cut corners that make using their gear less than great even if it performs well.
    This lot in my experience ALWAYS want things back to give a refund and put it on the buyer to return shit even when it's DOA. Their pickup and wait times at the warehouse are legendary. I have been there when 20 or so people were so pissed off I thought there was going to be a riot. No wonder the staff there who universally couldn't give a shit about customers get yelled at and insulted.

    The other thing I have seen a lot with different sellers is false replys. Edisons have done it to me. You put up a neg feedback and they will reply " Issue resolved, customer refunded and satisfied" Or "Replacement issued, customer happy" when it's complete and utter crap and customer ( me!) is still fighting with them. ZERO ethics with this mob.

    Look at their feedback and it's nothing like reality. How can it be when neg feedback is removed and disappears?
    Owner of the company is one of Australia's richest men and obviously one of Australia's biggest crunts as well. Obviously fleabay is making fortunes out of the guy so want to protect their income which is why they will protect him by removing or allowing them to remove what they don't want people to know.


    The other problem as I alluded to earlier is people more than not don't know anything about the product they are buying or have a clue if it's what they are getting. I got the first lot of LED lights, ( some time back not just recently) put them on a battery and said Nup, they aren't xxW and could tell by looking at them. Multimeter confirmed it. Thousands would buy those lights and never understand what the brightness should be or check that's what they got. Through ignorance they will leave good feedback even though they totally got ripped.

    The idea of the extended feedback or even additions is a good one and of course as such would never be put into practice. So much of this stuff does fall over quickly and often the sellers have disappeared if only trading under another 10 but different names. Having feedback open for even 6 months would mean they have to change their branding even faster.

    As far as product branding, I have a little insight into China products.
    There are endless places in China doing all sorts of things. You only need to order a Minimum Qty and they will paint the thing whatever colour you want, put your branding on the product and the box as well if you like. Inevitably it's one of their house products and 50 other sellers could all be offering the same unit, but customising it to YOUR branding is a very standard practice and they rarely charge for it. Sometimes like with Multimeters and other things, they will make the design look quite different to others and add or delete features or even move controls around if you buy enough of the things. They will also supply photographs and advertising material for you to put on different platforms.

    They will also put what ever numbers you want on the item or the box so a 100 rated item could also be labled as 1000 or 10,000. They don't care.
    Another thing with the china factories is they will make things as good or as cheap as you want.
    Friend of mine goes there and has knockoff stuff made for car parts. He takes over a sample and they take him into the their lounge, ply him with food , drink and attractive salesbitches and the tech aill analyse what he bought them then and there. they will then come back and say we can make it as is for XXX but we can improve this weakness here and do this that and the other which will make it much better but will cost you .3C extra per unit if you want to pay. And they do literaly deal down to 3 and 4 cents on $20 costs.

    He can spend a buck 20 and have a superiour unit made to the OEM. He often does this but calls himself an idiot for doing it. He says I know I'm only ever going to sell one lot because once they are replaced they will last the rest of the life of the vehicle. He doesen't worry. He can get parts that are better than the $600 oem original ( does a lot of head and tail lights as well as hubs and CV shafts) which cost him 20 something and sell them for $200 Wholesale to the parts shops and he's made his money. Goes to china 4 times a year getting stuff made up so not like he runs out of product lines.

    As he says, people always think of China as cheap crap and if you buy the cheapest, that's what you get but if you want quality, they are all over that because they do like to show how well they can do things and put pride into them. Just costs a few bux more to have a totally different and better product made...IF that's what you want.

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