Government spy app soon mandatory?

[george65]

Seems pretty easy to defeat to me.
Faraday cage.

You could make an envelope out of a few layers of aluminium foil and just put the phone in that. Fold the ends down and that's it.
Copper asks you for it, pull it out it's " case" and hand it over. Otherwise thing would only be tracked when you took it out if you wanted to make a call or something.

Wonder how they will go when you are on a Bus or train and there are 10 people within 1.5M of one another and they are within 1.5M of another 10 People who are.....
What they going to do? Bust them all for being in a train or handle 150 disputes from every train carridge peak hours and most of the day as well?
I don't think so

I know some people can't function without their bloody phones but I only take mine with me really in case the car breaks down and I need to call someone. When I go with the wife or daughter, the thing stays at home. Anyone that needs me badly will call them if they can't call me.

Could also get a little metal cash box to put the thing in. I often put mine in the metal filing cabinet and that's enough to kill the signal. Wouldn't take long for fully enclose metal phone cases to be available everywhere similar to RFID protected wallets.

The app might be a real good thing though.
Some of these people that never have a phone out their hand and have to talk on the Fking things at the Checkout or other inappropriate places get Pinged and they might not be so obsessed with their damn phones.

[bob_m_54]

In a perfect world, this app would be a good thing, even though it can't be made mandatory, due to a number people that don't have a compatible phone, and the ease of defeating it anyway. Even encryption could be made secure enough using the "public key" "private key" method like PGP or similar encryption methods.

The two main problems I see with the app are security risks associated with bluetooth operating in public environments, and the the biggy; unless the phone can be switched to class 3 operation (1mW range a couple of M) there would too many proximity collisions due to your phone operating in class 2 mode (2.5mW range possibly 15M). The number of hits where people were more than 5M away would be ridiculous. This could cause a lot of panic by notifying people that would have been perfectly safe, not to mention the extra effort required to notify people that didn't really need to be notified.

Switching bluetooth to class 3 operation may be possible through software, I have no idea.

[Johnno]

Carry a Bluetooth/Gsm/Gps jammer... lol
I better mention that It's illegal to have a jammer in Aus so don't do what Nev does when hes in a bank and the line is out the door and everyones on their mobiles.. lol

[Al Bundy]

So don't worry about the chief morons in govt. that people...for some reason... keep voting into office.

I did hear about this, thanks for digging out the bullet-points -- I technically became bemused with the bluetooth must be on point...all I can think of, is they're intending to use that NFC protocol, to flag when 2 people with phones running the same app, get within 1.5m of each other or such and similar?...can't actually be done;



The reference cites ->

The powers that be, won't make the app, write the app, security audit the app or anything else like this -- it's like the link I posted earlier here about speed cameras taking a hit -- they've outsource the whole thing to someone else, and 'trust' that someone else has done everything right, like the speed cameras... which don't do everything right. You probably need to focus on whomever in the gubberment has some financial interest in the company they'll outsource this to ... or something like that.

As for enforcement? "Can I check your phone please sir?" at the next RBT setup I see ; app not there? $180 fine thanks ...I mean, shit, we've gotta make up for all that snap-for-cash we're missing out on with the speed cameras, right?

Good to know you're using custom firmware tho', at least I don't feel all alone =)

Wow, how quickly you forget

If I thought for one moment that this lot of rswipes could be trusted, or more to the point the bureaucrats that do their bidding, I’d might just consider it, but I am sure we all know that none of them can be trusted, so F#@k Off!!!


​And in conjunction with the “private sector” to boot....

It's much deeper than that, we're a long way behind the curve in these regards down-under. At present, these sort of measures are only being entertained because widespread, integral tracking via 5G networks and telematics ( ..I know someone in the US working in this area), are in their infancy. This technology can rub both ways as well...ie; he was talking about a police radar app that tied in with your dashcam to not only warn you as you approached the radar check, but also used the new AI functionality in silicon to scan whether the radar unit is still parked in the same location or not. All our mobile phones just got lit up with the first real use of the national 0444444444 number - how anonymous was that? Was our privacy protected, or how long before the technology exists to do that, and be able to figure out where every handset actually is, and if the owner should be there or not? What about when your car starts pinging 5G networks and using GPS and letting traffic control systems know that you're coming, or, same systems broadcasting to your car of an accident ahead, and an ambulance coming up from behind about 1 minute away, so pull over now... this is where they're headed.

If the current covid-19 situation is just a prelude of things to come, and there's considerable research and study to suggest this is the case, if the next pandemic of whatever kind involves a virus with a mortality rate running at twice the percentage the spanish flu pandemic exampled, we wouldn't be discussing things here with the talk of 120,000 deaths, we'd be having the same chat with something like 100million people already dead.

Now, I can't speak for anyone else, but, if something like that happened, and the technology existed to check whether or not people were doing as they're told and being where they should be, or alert me that some drongo who'd been in contact with an infected person had used the same petrol pump 3mins earlier that I'm about to use... or in any way helps me avoid getting infected or infecting others, I'm going to welcome it.

[wotnot]

Wow, how quickly you forget

You'll need elucidate which point(s) you refer to ....as my memory is shot B^)

[Tiny]

Major European Players Push For Coronavirus-Tracking App Platform

Several preeminent states in the European Union are backing Bluetooth-based, contact-tracing technology to help map the spread of the novel coronavirus outbreak via smartphone apps, Reuters reported this week. This news comes courtesy of German tech entrepreneur Chris Boos, a major coordinator behind the project dubbed the Pan-European Privacy-Preserving Proximity Tracing (PEPP-PT) initiative.

Seven countries—Austria, Germany, France, Italy, Malta, Spain, and Switzerland— have either expressed support or begun incorporating this technology into national apps being developed in-house. Another forty countries have been registered and are currently in the onboarding process.


“A lot of larger countries have dedicated their app teams to build on top of what we’re supplying,” Boos said in an interview with Reuters.


PEPP-PT is the brainchild of more than 200 scientists and technologists. The initiative aims to enable European states to “talk” to each other across borders about the virus’s spread through automating risk assessment—a particularly challenging endeavour given EU’s strict privacy mandates regarding personal data.


Billed as “privacy-preserving,” PEPP-PT doesn’t rely on location data but rather uses Bluetooth-based proximity tracking to share pseudonymized IDs with devices physically near one another. When someone registers that they’ve been diagnosed with covid-19, the respiratory illness caused by the novel coronavirus, the system uses this information to push out notifications to anyone who came into contact with the infected individual. These apps would also provide additional guidance about precautionary measures such as getting tested for the coronavirus and self-quarantining.

[Tiny]

Carry a Bluetooth/Gsm/Gps jammer... lol
I better mention that It's illegal to have a jammer in Aus so don't do what Nev does when hes in a bank and the line is out the door and everyones on their mobiles.. lol

Seems pretty easy to defeat to me.
Faraday cage.

You could make an envelope out of a few layers of aluminium foil and just put the phone in that. Fold the ends down and that's it.
Copper asks you for it, pull it out it's " case" and hand it over. Otherwise thing would only be tracked when you took it out if you wanted to make a call or something.

You could just turn your phone off.

[shred]

So this would be how I would do it:
Transmit the IMEI over Blue Tooth and read all the transmitted IMEIs of the phones within the bluetooth range(usually 8m if you are lucky), collect those readings(and other data that might be interesting) over a certain time period and send in packets to the Gov or third party who is contracted to manage this over the net using Data or Wifi when available.

Yes. that'd work. Each phone broadcasting a unique identifier (re)opens the privacy issues around movement of people being tracked by listening for BlueTooth or WiFi beacons or traffic generated by the phone.

Ever had a listen to all the traffic around you using a penetration testing tool like "Kismet"? It's fascinating - particularly when someone is using an older Android device that doesn't have any of the privacy protection. Can very quickly and easily find out things like:

• Name of the phone "Steve's phone"
• Manufacturer (from the MAC addr prefix)
• All the WiFi SSIDs theyve associated with (list of hotels Steve stays in)

I've done quite a bit of work at home, using bluetooth beacons for presence detection. You can buy cheap bluetooth ibeacon devices online (beware, beware dodgy eBay sellers... here be dragons) and then set up devices like the cheap Raspberry Pi and Raspberry Pi Zero W boards to listen for the beacons, or absence of beacons. Put a beacon in each car/on my bike etc and now the house "knows" when a person leaves or enters.

If installing the app becomes mandatory, it'd be pretty easy to accidentally set the security settings on your phone so the app can't access, WiFi, bluetooth, GPS or whatever. "Look, I've installed the app", but for some reason, it doesn't work. Can't figure out why.

[Uncle Fester]

Faraday cage won't work (for me and probably most others) as I need ppl to reach me so I can earn some money.

This will work for $25:


Has bluetooth but no apps can be installed.

Add a $5 SIM from Aldi (that $5 expires after 1 year) and you got the perfect burner phone to show.

It will be interesting how many Australians will "make the right decision".
Obviously the huge uptake on social media would suggest they all have no problem sharing their details with god and the world but at the same time having a Government app 'spying' on you may turn off a few although the Gov finds out almost everything about them on their Facebook anyhow.
Someone we know got a Covid fine because they posted a selfie at our local tourist hot spot on FB even though they were local.

I guess somebody using a phone from another person who is quarantined would cop a hefty fine too through detection with this app, although that is asking for trouble for more than one reason but ppl can be pretty stupid.

[Uncle Fester]

...

If installing the app becomes mandatory, it'd be pretty easy to accidentally set the security settings on your phone so the app can't access, WiFi, bluetooth, GPS or whatever. "Look, I've installed the app", but for some reason, it doesn't work. Can't figure out why.

Pretty sure the app will enable BT on it's own and there will be a big display "do not enable Airplane Mode"

Fine for not having the app installed $1000, you did not know about app but you should have.
Fine for enabling Airplane Mode $2000 and/or 6months prison, as that would be seen as deliberate criminal act.

...which brings me to:
7. Every App I have installed terminates at some point in time. I can't even get the damn VPN clients to stay resident. I am sure this is an Android thing, maybe a background process limit or something but now everybody would be expected to make sure this app is always running 24/7.

[Al Bundy]

You'll need elucidate which point(s) you refer to ....as my memory is shot B^)

Just read the posts, it might come drifting back....

[ol' boy]

Our experts at it again.


They got the idea from Singapore who only use it voluntarily and only 20% took up on it ...obviously privacy concerns.

And China too i guess, they have had thier App out for a while now.
You can't fly without it over there, according to reports.
Nor leave your area in some cases. Or enter areas of high infection.

1. I feel this will be a big flop regardless
2. So many gambling apps and other apps want to know your location, people seem to install them without a thought.
3. Between what is collected by Google and your Credit, Debit card purchases, your whereabouts is already known and accessible

They will obviously implement this system with a "You're punished if you don't" mentality, by withholding some normal freedoms
AFL games, NRL games, Flights, Concerts.....

Still, i think it will all just fail, but in general it will work, so they will be happy.
Someone will write a cloaking app, where you position can be manipulated and your BT data faked.

Would have been easier if they just stopped the one boat the actually mattered!
And shut down International Flights when the blind freddy was calling out for it

[wotnot]

Just read the posts, it might come drifting back....

Have done, can't discern where my memory has failed and/or I've contradicted myself ; I've just been out drifting the car around the track on my mates properly, haven't tried drifting backwards yet... will give it a go next time.

If you (or anyone else) is confused about my position - let me use 3 words ; I don't care ; bring on the app, don't bring on the app, force it onto my phone...{shrug}...couldn't give a toss ; not as though I've ever voted for a moron in my life that strive for parliament or political office, not about to start either (regardless of whether electoral role registration is automatic these days) Is the app safe? Is my privacy protected? Couldn't give a shit...nothing on my phone contains 'sensitive data', nobody else's should either IMHO =) I was (latterly) just pointing out that the approach is flawed anyway, which is typical of what convinces morons in power they're onto a 'smart' solution -- hint: look at the NBN

edit: a contraction constitutes a single word =)

[admin]

Why worry ? It wont be mandatory (unless you live in Victoria, Comrade Dan will attach it to peoples Golf Clubs in case they use them)

[ol' boy]

Pisser

A number of federal politicians reportedly won’t download the mobile phone app to help trace people who have been in contact with a coronavirus case, citing privacy concerns.
Nationals MP and former deputy PM Barnaby Joyce and Deputy Speaker Llew O’Brien have both spoken out publicly against the government’s new app, which will be available in the coming weeks.
“I treasure the government knowing as little about me as possible,” Mr Joyce told Nine newspapers on Sunday.
“Australia is doing an extraordinary job of flattening the curve by reason that we are overwhelmingly decent and logical people. We don’t need an app to tell us that.”
Mr O’Brien said there was a “snowflake’s chance in hell” he would use the app. “It is way too Big-Brotherish for me,” he told News Corp Australia Sunday newspapers.

[LeroyPatrol]

so gov will buy everyone a new phone because we are all going to say we have Motorola Brick? 🤣

[Reschs]

so gov will buy everyone a new phone because we are all going to say we have Motorola Brick? 🤣

Okay, I will start looking for mine.
Best phone I ever had.
Next best was Qualcom CDMA.

[wotnot]

so gov will buy everyone a new phone because we are all going to say we have Motorola Brick? 🤣

For myself, they actually did -- I've been looking to buy a new phone for a while now, but never had the money to afford a decent one ; guess where a portion of that $750 support supplement payment went =)

[Mr 672A]

Only last night I was talking to a friend over the phone and he reminded me what happened year ago,,,,,,,
See what happened, when prisoner were released from jail and they had to go to a half way house like in this case OZCARE in Brisbane City (Apparently OZCARE was close to the city but now its gone) for the reason to adjust to living on the outside from jail and when a Ex Prisoner had a curfew on them you can go out from 6.00 am to 8 pm at night but had to be back before 8pm otherwise you will be sent to jail and the firsts thing the EX Prisoner did he got MOBIL PHONE with some carrier as recommended by the PAROLE BOARD and after a week or so during Lunch time or even dinner time (easy to catch them) the Police with some Prison officers came to a eat table and arrested someone. Hummmm Now one of these guy that was arrested used the same Solicitors that I use to work for and this guy whist in jail contacted my Solicitor Friend and told him that he back in Jail.
Now the First thing my Solicitor Friend said, What did you do to get back in Jail or better still what breach did you do and the guy sad nothing !!!! . Now this guy whilst in Jail with plenty of others like him that got parole only to be put back in Jail again and if any prisoner asked the gestapo in Jail "WHAT DID I DO TO YOU ARREST ME AND TAKE ME TO JAIL" the answer was NOTHING and Apparently they are not obliged to tell you anything not unless you go to court via a JR which is a Judicial Review and in some case the Prosecutor wont tell the court not unless the Judge force them to tell the reason why they have breached the parole act.
Now Remember what I said before when a prisoner was first released the X Prisoner was Told by the outside gestapo "now that you are free you will need a Mobil Phone because you need to get one for work or talk to your family" but they wont tell you they are tracking you via your phone a expensive phone not a cheepe (the parole board has you phone number) because in some case they have been doing this, no all or maybe that cant do this on cheaper phones and still today I cant work out 100% how they have been doing this. Yes in their parole Condition for a particular X prisoner they have conditions once release and in one condition you must not talk to any other prisoner on the outside that has the same convictions as you. Or if you were banned from a area or address you must not go close than 1 or 2 or 5 km to that address and if you do you will breached the parole act and you will go back to jail.
Interesting!! Dont worry about COVID Tracking, looks like they have been doing this before but lying to the X Prisoners.

Once again DIRTY TRICKS.