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Thread: Dealing with energex

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    Premium Member bazzy's Avatar
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    Default Dealing with energex

    Hi All

    I am having 15kw of solar installed (has been installed and is now waiting on the 3phase connection.

    this is where all the problems started.

    the connection request has come through and they have then turned around and said that a network upgrade is required and i have to pay for that.

    this has been escalated to the ombudsmen, that went through to energex who then said I only have a single phase running down the street and they would have to do an upgrade to run 3 phase down the street. I was then told that there was three phase running down the street at the rear of the property and that i can actually request a connection to that instead.

    I have had an electrical contractor come out to quote me to do what is necessary to connect me to the rear. ($3000 worth of work) but he then checked the front pole and found that there was indeed 3 Phase running down the street and it was a fairly new cable and said it was a 3phase twisted bundle. ( i remember energex came out last year and parked my car in so i couldn't go to work while they replaced the lines. when i asked the workman what they where doing they said they are replacing the lines, they have clearly replaced the single phase with 3 phase while doing it) the electrician then followed the cable up the street (small dead end street and the cables only run across 3 poles before reaching the end of the street.)
    he found it connects to the 3 phase lines on the street leading into my street they then run up the road and run past the rear street entry where they are also connected to the poles running down that street, he said there is no reason to connect to the rear of the property when the front goes to the same place.

    To me it sounds like energex has lost the paperwork surrounding the upgrade that was already performed and they are trying to get me to pay them $7000+ for them to come out and realise its already done then say job done.

    I have photographic evidence that there is 3phase running there see below.






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    You do realize a 'network upgrade' could well mean a transformer is involved somewhere ~ you can't just dump 15kw onto a grid sector, if it can't control/share that load onto the grid circuit. This happened out here (south of Beaudesert) when all the farmers sprung to the idea of installing PV arrays to offset their irrigation electricity costs, only to find they had to wait 3--6months for a 'network upgrade' before they could connect to the grid (and that's despite having 3phase supplies running straight to the pump motors).

    Somehow, I think there's more to your story than energex is spelling out for you.

    Incidentally, one bloke basically told energex to take a flying leap, and he spent the money on battery storage/inverters instead and hasn't looked back =)

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    Are you going to be backfeeding 15 Kw back to the grid or putting up 15 Kw worth of panels with a 5 or 10 Kw export limit?
    Even 15 Kw is only 5 Kw per phase. That is a widely accepted limit on single phase anyway so I don't see the problem. Putting 5 Kw onto a phase is nothing at all.

    What is energex SPECIFICALY wanting to charge you for? If it's the 3 phase wiring, then all you have to do is get them to check it's already there and that's it. If it's a transformer upgrade, that's on them.

    These power co's are greedy, robbing, incompetent pricks and will try to screw you and put every hurdle in your way especially for solar.

    Are you able to get a FIT on 15 KW or are you limiting export to 10 KW?

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    Default Dealing with energex

    Transformer upgrade is at your expense not thereís. At least that is how it works with Powercor (Vic) and Country Energy (NSW).

    The lines out the front of your property might already be at capacity hence not allowing to connect at the front.

    Is there other propertyís off the same transformer running solar?
    They only allow a percentage of the transformers output to connect to solar. Itís first in best dressed unless you decide to pay for a transformer upgrade.


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    Last edited by irwazza; 22-05-20 at 07:01 AM.

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    sounds like Energex just did a desk audit and are going off what they have in front of them. Can you request a supervisor come out for a drive to look for themselves?

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    Premium Member bazzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wotnot View Post
    You do realize a 'network upgrade' could well mean a transformer is involved somewhere ~ you can't just dump 15kw onto a grid sector, if it can't control/share that load onto the grid circuit. This happened out here (south of Beaudesert) when all the farmers sprung to the idea of installing PV arrays to offset their irrigation electricity costs, only to find they had to wait 3--6months for a 'network upgrade' before they could connect to the grid (and that's despite having 3phase supplies running straight to the pump motors).
    no the network upgrade is to run 3 phase down my street, they had said that i could connect to the rear of the property that "already has 3phase" however I had an electrician come to do the quote on that and he said the front 3 phase is connected to the same pole the back is.

    Quote Originally Posted by irwazza View Post
    Transformer upgrade is at your expense not thereís. At least that is how it works with Powercor (Vic) and Country Energy (NSW).
    if i was paying for a transformer out of my pocket i EXPECT energex to mount it on my power pole and connect me up exclusive to it as it belongs to me if i pay for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by VroomVroom View Post
    sounds like Energex just did a desk audit and are going off what they have in front of them. Can you request a supervisor come out for a drive to look for themselves?
    I did ask this and got nowhere so i ended up raising a case with the energy and water ombudsman and then they got someone out quick smart. turns out their records had not been updated since they came out to replace the cables last year. they "didn't know" it was 3 phase.

    I have also considered using battery however i have been discouraged to do so for a few years due to the cost being projected to come down a lot in the next few years. so i intend to install the equivalent of 3 current generation tesla batteries along with an expansion of the system out to 25kw

    as for the system sizes you are allowed.

    on a single phase you are allowed to export 5kw per hour and have a system size of 15kw and for a 3 phase system you are allowed to export 15kw per hour and have a system size up to 30kw. those figures i got directly from the energex engineer that came out on site in the end.

    I suspect part of my power consumption issue is the power meter as it is saying i am using 40 - 60kw of power per day. and i don't have all that much running to cause this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bazzy View Post

    I have also considered using battery however i have been discouraged to do so for a few years due to the cost being projected to come down a lot in the next few years. so i intend to install the equivalent of 3 current generation tesla batteries along with an expansion of the system out to 25kw
    Can't say I think that would be a very wise Decision.
    Do you know anything about these Tesla Batterys?
    You would be looking at $15K EACH for the things installed if not more now the way the dollar is. Paying $45K to save $3 or 7K makes no sense to me. And if you think you will save money with them, Do the sums and ignore the BS Hype. There are lots of spins on Batterys but as is easy to work out, the thing can't store enough power over their lifetime for the avoided cost of purchasing power to repay their investment.

    Batterys need to come down 70-80% before becoming Viable and I guarantee that isn't going to happen in the next 20 Years! All the sheeple have this ignorant idea the cost of everything is related to manufacturing cost. Products are also based on the pricing strategy of " What the market will bear" and if demand is high, the price is inflated. Never better evidenced by the recent drop in fuel prices.

    Batteries of all types are growing exponentially in demand and while ever there is strong demand the price will remain high.

    Batterys are a COST not a saving and as well as that, after reading many forums including tesla's own on the problems and Shit Fluckery Tesla put their customers through with their endless Big Brother interference, You couldn't Give one to me. Don't take my word or that of the Fanbois for it, Do your own home work. Read the websites and the forums. The Wankpool forum is as greenwashed and leftie as you can get yet reading their Tesla battery threads make you wonder why anyone would have or put up with them.

    Aside from anything else, buying $45K worth of battery's to save on a 3 or $7k cost would be completely stupid.



    on a single phase you are allowed to export 5kw per hour and have a system size of 15kw and for a 3 phase system you are allowed to export 15kw per hour and have a system size up to 30kw. those figures i got directly from the energex engineer that came out on site in the end.
    The export limits are pretty standard but some suppliers will only give you a FIT up to 10 Kw installed. You can still have 15 or 20 But you either only get FIT on 10 or you get no fit at all. It's all different not only with the base supplier but retailers as well so Check carefully what applies to YOU.

    Being allowed to have up to 30 KW of panels is pretty rare but if that is the case, I'll guarantee you will get NO fit on a system that size.

    I have about 22 Kw of panels now and will be pushing out closer to 30 soon but one needs a lot of roof space for that. You'll need a pretty big roof space or a pretty big shed or the ability to use both for 25Kw. That's going to be about 160 Sq M of roof to cover in panels. You loose a lot on the diagonals where the roof pitches meet and again orientation is an issue as well as shading. If you are semi/ Rural you may not have any trouble but if you are average surburban... You'll need to be lucky. If your main roof is North south, then you'll only really get the use of half. You can put panels on the south side particularly of your roof pitch is low but you'll only really get any input from that about 6 Months of the year. If you are east west, that's probably going to allow you more useable area.


    I suspect part of my power consumption issue is the power meter as it is saying i am using 40 - 60kw of power per day. and i don't have all that much running to cause this.
    If you are single phase only now, That is a LOT of power. You would have to know you are doing that. 50 Kwh a day @ 30c Kwh is $1500 a quarter PLUS $100 to 150 availability charge.
    I can do 60 KWH a day no troubles because I am entirely electric, have a big house with a Big air con and live where it can be -5 in winter with no problem and get a week straight in summer with 40 PLUS highs. When I'm not running the big AC, I'll be using 20 Kwh a day if that.
    If you aren't running AC, have gas for water or cooking and don't have a pool or running a small industry out your home or shed, I'd say no way you could be using that.... Unless you are charging an EV every day.

    You can get meters that clamp onto your feed cables that you can monitor your consumption with and check the power co readings. In any case, unless you are running something substantial, I'd have the company come out and check the meter. Leaving lights on isn't going to do that but make sure you don't have a fridge running all the time or something similar. You should be able to see the meter spinning pretty well to rack that up and if you don't see any obvious cause, you could try isolating circuits by flicking off the breaker and see where it's coming from, light, power, garage or what other circuit and then track it down from there.

    If you put on solar and don't have a smart meter the first thing they will do to connect it is install one so that will remove the potential faulty one now.
    Unless you have some obvious heavy load like a pool pump, AC or some heater running a lot, no way you are using that much power.

    That said, a Meter would have to be a LONG way out to be that wrong.
    Last edited by george65; 29-05-20 at 12:41 AM.

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    Bazzy, so you think that a private company would upgrade a transformer just for you, free of charge so you can hook solar up to it, feed power back to them and cause them nothing but head aches?
    Haha, what sort or reality do you live in?


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    Premium Member bazzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by irwazza View Post
    Bazzy, so you think that a private company would upgrade a transformer just for you, free of charge so you can hook solar up to it, feed power back to them and cause them nothing but head aches?
    Haha, what sort or reality do you live in?


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    Irwazza you think i am going to pay a private company to install a transformer that i don't have exclusive access too or inherit ownership of. Energex would stand to make a profit from upgrading the transformer due to increased capacity to new developments down the line.
    Haha, what sort of reality do you live in?


    Quote Originally Posted by george65 View Post
    Being allowed to have up to 30 KW of panels is pretty rare but if that is the case, I'll guarantee you will get NO fit on a system that size.

    I have about 22 Kw of panels now and will be pushing out closer to 30 soon but one needs a lot of roof space for that. You'll need a pretty big roof space or a pretty big shed or the ability to use both for 25Kw. That's going to be about 160 Sq M of roof to cover in panels. You loose a lot on the diagonals where the roof pitches meet and again orientation is an issue as well as shading. If you are semi/ Rural you may not have any trouble but if you are average surburban... You'll need to be lucky. If your main roof is North south, then you'll only really get the use of half. You can put panels on the south side particularly of your roof pitch is low but you'll only really get any input from that about 6 Months of the year. If you are east west, that's probably going to allow you more useable area.
    this system is using one entire roof side and the roofing covering the deck. it equals 15kw total, I have the west facing roof space and there is going to be a shed installed in the future that will be a two car garage it will add additional space to install further solar.

    as for my power bills they have recently been ranging from $1600 and $1800, i have gas hot water but i do have a pool. it however is not the pool causing it because the pool is connected to controlled load and shows up as a separate charge on my bill, around $200 it also only runs between midnight and 8am through summer and midnight and 6am through winter.
    the pump has to be manually switched over to peak in order to run the pump during the day for back-washing or cleaning and that only happens once a month if that and only for 5 min.

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    Do you think that Energex wear the cost of installing transformers to new developments? Ahh no, the developer wears it and In turn passes the cost onto the people purchasing propertyís.

    If you build in the middle of an area with no houses around you and no transformers around do you think that Energex will pay for a transformer to be installed? Ahh no, itís on you.

    Do you think if you build a farm and donít have power available that Energex will come along, install all the infrastructure so you can have power? Ahh no, itís on you.

    From what I am seeing, you did little to no research on installing your solar system. Installed it and now jumping up and down because Energex have told you that you need to pay.


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    Example from powercor.





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    Quote Originally Posted by irwazza View Post
    Do you think that Energex wear the cost of installing transformers to new developments? Ahh no, the developer wears it and In turn passes the cost onto the people purchasing propertyís.

    If you build in the middle of an area with no houses around you and no transformers around do you think that Energex will pay for a transformer to be installed? Ahh no, itís on you.

    Do you think if you build a farm and donít have power available that Energex will come along, install all the infrastructure so you can have power? Ahh no, itís on you.

    From what I am seeing, you did little to no research on installing your solar system. Installed it and now jumping up and down because Energex have told you that you need to pay.


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    when was the last time you had to pay for a phone tower to be erected because the service providers network was at capacity? same deal.

    additionally im not a developer so how do i recover the costs from the new houses being built in the area that benefits from said new transformer.

    Further more about this part of your comment "From what I am seeing, you did little to no research on installing your solar system. Installed it and now jumping up and down because Energex have told you that you need to pay.
    "

    sounds like your a bit of a dick.

    I engaged with a solar installer who is the one who does all the "research" I am not an electrical engineer so it is not my responsibility to identify network capacity issues nor can an average consumer do so.
    additionally you clearly cant read either because in this thread i have clearly stated after all this that an upgrade turned out to not be needed. as energex admitted that there was capacity after an engineer came on site to visit.

    additionally energex had approved the system for installation and then after the fact came and said oh we need to do a network upgrade. so your way off when it comes to research mate.
    so in future before posting rubbish like that mate perhaps review the thread more thoroughly before posting something like that otherwise you make yourself look like a bit of an idiot.

    what you have done here basically told me i have not done any research when i have already said energex have admitted this to their records not being up to date.

    I understand there are a lot of people who don't like solar, but that really doesn't interest me to be honest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bazzy View Post
    when was the last time you had to pay for a phone tower to be erected because the service providers network was at capacity? same deal.
    Its actually not the same. Upgrading a transformer will only benefit you initially, sure more people can connect at a later date or potentially feed more in kw. but initially its for you. They also have a different model for making $$

    Quote Originally Posted by bazzy View Post
    additionally im not a developer so how do i recover the costs from the new houses being built in the area that benefits from said new transformer.
    Just examples to dumb it down for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by bazzy View Post
    Further more about this part of your comment "From what I am seeing, you did little to no research on installing your solar system. Installed it and now jumping up and down because Energex have told you that you need to pay.
    "

    sounds like your a bit of a dick.
    This may be the case, I also think you are a dick.

    Quote Originally Posted by bazzy View Post
    I engaged with a solar installer who is the one who does all the "research" I am not an electrical engineer so it is not my responsibility to identify network capacity issues nor can an average consumer do so.
    additionally you clearly cant read either because in this thread i have clearly stated after all this that an upgrade turned out to not be needed. as energex admitted that there was capacity after an engineer came on site to visit.

    additionally energex had approved the system for installation and then after the fact came and said oh we need to do a network upgrade. so your way off when it comes to research mate.
    so in future before posting rubbish like that mate perhaps review the thread more thoroughly before posting something like that otherwise you make yourself look like a bit of an idiot.

    what you have done here basically told me i have not done any research when i have already said energex have admitted this to their records not being up to date.
    If you are going to go your whole life expecting that everyone with a business/title will look after your best interest good luck to you! Its a large investment, only makes sense to do some RESEARCH.
    As for not needing an upgrade, not sure about that. You said that 3 Phase out the front, it isn't wireless, it needs to get to your property some how. An upgrade is required....
    Plus really, going to the ombudsman before actually trying to work it out with Energex is a real dick move. The exact move that is ruining society.


    Quote Originally Posted by bazzy View Post
    I understand there are a lot of people who don't like solar, but that really doesn't interest me to be honest.
    Quite opposite for me, 18kw on the roof making me approx $2k per year.

    Good luck with your solar!

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    Premium Member bazzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by irwazza View Post
    Its actually not the same. Upgrading a transformer will only benefit you initially, sure more people can connect at a later date or potentially feed more in kw. but initially its for you. They also have a different model for making $$



    Just examples to dumb it down for you.



    This may be the case, I also think you are a dick.



    If you are going to go your whole life expecting that everyone with a business/title will look after your best interest good luck to you! Its a large investment, only makes sense to do some RESEARCH.
    As for not needing an upgrade, not sure about that. You said that 3 Phase out the front, it isn't wireless, it needs to get to your property some how. An upgrade is required....
    Plus really, going to the ombudsman before actually trying to work it out with Energex is a real dick move. The exact move that is ruining society.



    Quite opposite for me, 18kw on the roof making me approx $2k per year.

    Good luck with your solar!
    mate you have no idea what BS i went through with energex before escalating it to the ombudsman.
    there is a difference between a network upgrade and a service upgrade. I have ALREADY PAID for a service upgrade and have accepted the cost of that, we are talking about a network upgrade they where saying will cost me $7000 - $15000 and after getting the ombudsman involved the process stopped going around and around and around in circles and finally got traction. this has been nearly 4 weeks of trying to get this sorted with energex before escalating to the ombudsman.

    what do you propose i do. sit there and let them go around and around then when they come back saying yeah we didnt look but its going to cost you $15000 to do the upgrade there you go. oh by the way don't mind that the engineers come out and don't actually do anything, see we predicted you would upgrade last year and had already performed the upgrade for you. here's the bill for it we will just append it to your power bill for your convenience.
    to be clear that is exactly what they where doing.

    that is what you are saying is ok and i should not complain about that.

    furthermore what part of Energex has admitted that no network upgrade is required do you not understand?
    let me dumb it down for you
    an engineer who knows a lot more about the Queensland Electricity grid than you do and who ACTUALLY WORKS for energex has come to site and had a look. deemed a network upgrade was not needed.
    They have admitted that and i quote "upgrade works for <Redacted> street have been completed as part of scheduled network maintenance in 2019. no further network work required, Please resubmit EWR"

    as for you thinking i am a dick, that is irrelevant to me as you come to the thread and make comments after i have already said energex has resolved the issue and explained how, stating that i am not doing my research is clearly an attempt at provoking a response, My approach with energex is not a dick move. I will only tolerate being screwed around for so long after a threshold is reached i will then escalate the issue. that is reasonable. further more The electrical ombudsman has raised a few concerns surrounding this case that is going to be investigated.

    Namely
    1. Why energex had no record of a network upgrade they performed. (this was a particular concern for them as it indicates they are not tracking network upgrades being performed)
    2. Why i as the customer had to identify to energex that said network had already been upgraded and why there was no site visit performed as part of this process (i am not out in the country i am in the suburbs)
    3. Why none of the information i was providing them was being taken into account until the ombudsman had been engaged.

    They will be investigating these issues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by irwazza View Post
    Do you think that Energex wear the cost of installing transformers to new developments? Ahh no, the developer wears it and In turn passes the cost onto the people purchasing propertyís.
    Right. So all the people using the infrastructure pay for it. So what in this case makes you think just one person should have to pay for what every
    One else is going to use?
    They are not going to put in a transfomer for one property so explain how in your belligerent mind you think just one person should pay for?
    While you are at it, explain what the access fees/ service charges we get slugged on our bill is supposed to cover?



    If you build in the middle of an area with no houses around you and no transformers around do you think that Energex will pay for a transformer to be installed? Ahh no, itís on you.
    So by your reckoning, the first house in the street should pay for the power to be put on the every one else that comes along should get it for nothing AND, the power co should be able to charge the a service fee for whatbthe first guy paid for?

    Yeah that sounds logical... not!

    Do you think if you build a farm and donít have power available that Energex will come along, install all the infrastructure so you can have power? Ahh no, itís on you.
    So i guess you wouldnhave to pay fornthenwater mains to be laid and thensewer and the phone/ nbn as well right?
    Sorry, not the way it works so you are either ignorant or purposefully talking crap hoping the op is gullible enough to swallow it which hes not.
    No need to dig yourself in any deeper.


    From what I am seeing, you did little to no research on installing your solar system. Installed it and now jumping up and down because Energex have told you that you need to pay.
    From what i am seeing you are either on a power company pay roll or have vested interests or ignorantly talking a lot of rot which you have no clue or understanding of reality about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bazzy View Post
    mate you have no idea what BS i went through with energex before escalating it to the ombudsman.
    there is a difference between a network upgrade and a service upgrade. I have ALREADY PAID for a service upgrade and have accepted the cost of that, we are talking about a network upgrade they where saying will cost me $7000 - $15000 and after getting the ombudsman involved the process stopped going around and around and around in circles and finally got traction. this has been nearly 4 weeks of trying to get this sorted with energex before escalating to the ombudsman.

    what do you propose i do. sit there and let them go around and around then when they come back saying yeah we didnt look but its going to cost you $15000 to do the upgrade there you go. oh by the way don't mind that the engineers come out and don't actually do anything, see we predicted you would upgrade last year and had already performed the upgrade for you. here's the bill for it we will just append it to your power bill for your convenience.
    to be clear that is exactly what they where doing.

    that is what you are saying is ok and i should not complain about that.

    furthermore what part of Energex has admitted that no network upgrade is required do you not understand?
    let me dumb it down for you
    an engineer who knows a lot more about the Queensland Electricity grid than you do and who ACTUALLY WORKS for energex has come to site and had a look. deemed a network upgrade was not needed.
    They have admitted that and i quote "upgrade works for <Redacted> street have been completed as part of scheduled network maintenance in 2019. no further network work required, Please resubmit EWR"

    as for you thinking i am a dick, that is irrelevant to me as you come to the thread and make comments after i have already said energex has resolved the issue and explained how, stating that i am not doing my research is clearly an attempt at provoking a response, My approach with energex is not a dick move. I will only tolerate being screwed around for so long after a threshold is reached i will then escalate the issue. that is reasonable. further more The electrical ombudsman has raised a few concerns surrounding this case that is going to be investigated.

    Namely
    1. Why energex had no record of a network upgrade they performed. (this was a particular concern for them as it indicates they are not tracking network upgrades being performed)
    2. Why i as the customer had to identify to energex that said network had already been upgraded and why there was no site visit performed as part of this process (i am not out in the country i am in the suburbs)
    3. Why none of the information i was providing them was being taken into account until the ombudsman had been engaged.

    They will be investigating these issues.
    This is alot more information than was first given.

  • #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by george65 View Post
    Right. So all the people using the infrastructure pay for it. So what in this case makes you think just one person should have to pay for what every
    One else is going to use?
    They are not going to put in a transfomer for one property so explain how in your belligerent mind you think just one person should pay for?
    While you are at it, explain what the access fees/ service charges we get slugged on our bill is supposed to cover?





    So by your reckoning, the first house in the street should pay for the power to be put on the every one else that comes along should get it for nothing AND, the power co should be able to charge the a service fee for whatbthe first guy paid for?

    Yeah that sounds logical... not!



    So i guess you wouldnhave to pay fornthenwater mains to be laid and thensewer and the phone/ nbn as well right?
    Sorry, not the way it works so you are either ignorant or purposefully talking crap hoping the op is gullible enough to swallow it which hes not.
    No need to dig yourself in any deeper.



    From what i am seeing you are either on a power company pay roll or have vested interests or ignorantly talking a lot of rot which you have no clue or understanding of reality about.
    I never once said I agreed with the way it is. If you ask me THEY should pay for any infrastructure.
    But guess what, that isn't the way it works!
    If water isn't running past your house, guess what, you have to pay to have it run. If sewer isn't running past, guess what, you have to pay, I could keep going if you like??
    The service fees are to pay for maintenance, if a transformers is screwed, they will repair/replace. If poles are screwed they will replace etc.
    I will one again link you to one power companys guide to fees

    I really do think you are the one that doesn't have a grasp on reality...

    Good luck with your alternate reality!
    Last edited by irwazza; 29-05-20 at 07:03 PM.

  • #18
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    Did you actualy read that link?
    Obviously not. Read it again, in full with your eyes open this time and youll see it says exactly what I did.

    My reality is fine, thanks for proving it. Yours however is away off course.

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    There is a rather large MAY in there that you a referring too.

    Once again, you have proven you canít fix stupid.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  • #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by irwazza View Post

    Once again, you have proven you canít fix stupid.

    Well we agree there. You have read it in your own link and still think you are right or just too self important to concede any other position but the one you insist on pushing.... Which is convincing no one.
    That's the Definition right there and you fit it to a T.

    Rant on, no one cares when someone resorts to insults because the facts don't stand up to the rubbish they want to push.

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